Am I Too Mean?

[mercury]

Not quite 2 weeks ago (it will be 2 weeks tomorrow), my 12 year old daughter got caught up in vandalizing a neighbor's truck. She didn't cause any damage, but she smeared some cheese on the tailgate and decorated it with toilet paper; the rocks the other kids threw at it did cause damage.

At first she lied to me about her involvement... and then one of the other kids involved ratted her out. Suddenly she's standing in front of a police officer and she's so very, very sorry. I think she's only sorry she got caught.

She's been grounded ever since.

The first day or two she was eager and willing to take on extra chores, since then, not so much. Mostly what happens when I tell her what to do, is a tantrum that would put a 2 year old to shame, so mostly she's just been confined to the house and grounded from hanging out with friends, talking on the phone (because it's a tool of conspiracy), watching TV and using the computer (because we've also had problems in the past and more recently with her violating trust in that department, too).

Lying has been an ongoing issue with her... and there's nothing that bugs me more than a liar. I don't trust her out of my sight...

Perhaps I should have been firmer in my previous lessons, but what's done is done. I hope to make this one stick. The grounding is for an indefinite period of time...

Her job in the mean time is to demonstrate that she has learned to take responsibility for her actions, to stop sneaking around (I've caught her sneaking out to hang out with friends at least twice), and to be honest (I've caught her in a couple more small lies since).

I don't think I'm being too harsh, but maybe I am?

Bolster my resolve.

please

And If you think I'm being to harsh, say so... she almost has me convinced.

 

[snafu]

Not quite 2 weeks ago (it will be 2 weeks tomorrow), my 12 year old daughter got caught up in vandalizing a neighbor's truck. She didn't cause any damage, but she smeared some cheese on the tailgate and decorated it with toilet paper; the rocks the other kids threw at it did cause damage.
At first she lied to me about her involvement... and then one of the other kids involved ratted her out. Suddenly she's standing in front of a police officer and she's so very, very sorry. I think she's only sorry she got caught.

She's been grounded ever since.

The first day or two she was eager and willing to take on extra chores, since then, not so much. Mostly what happens when I tell her what to do, is a tantrum that would put a 2 year old to shame, so mostly she's just been confined to the house and grounded from hanging out with friends, talking on the phone (because it's a tool of conspiracy), watching TV and using the computer (because we've also had problems in the past and more recently with her violating trust in that department, too).

Lying has been an ongoing issue with her... and there's nothing that bugs me more than a liar. I don't trust her out of my sight...

Perhaps I should have been firmer in my previous lessons, but what's done is done. I hope to make this one stick. The grounding is for an indefinite period of time...

Her job in the mean time is to demonstrate that she has learned to take responsibility for her actions, to stop sneaking around (I've caught her sneaking out to hang out with friends at least twice), and to be honest (I've caught her in a couple more small lies since).

I don't think I'm being too harsh, but maybe I am?

Bolster my resolve.

please

And If you think I'm being to harsh, say so... she almost has me convinced.

Sounds like what my dad went though with me.

He is the best person on the planet but that was the propblem. He's been there for me every step in my life so far but I should'a gotten my *** kicked a few times.

I swear kids without discipline turn out like people we're hearing about in the shopping malls this year. This is what's happing to our society.

Not enough tuff love!!

 

[wez]

Are you too mean? Gonna fix my account? hehehehe

I don't know merc.. I guess the point is to get her to stop lying etc.. but at this point it's prolly not doing anything to show her the error of her ways anymore and just making her angry and frustrated, and perhaps a better liar in the future to avoid having her lifeline taken away again. ie.. the phone, tv, computer.. 2 weeks is a lifetime when you're 12..

I can't speak from the P.O.V. of a parent, only as it was when I was a kid.. But I guess I'd say that just having my folks and others disappointed in me was the best lessons I ever got.. Having stuff taken away just ****** me off, didn't happen often.

Maybe she should have to go clean up the guys garage or wash his truck a few times or something.. At least apologize to him face to face..

You know, it was pretty **** funny to break things as a kid.. wonder why that is? hahaha

 

[ImWithStupid]

Not quite 2 weeks ago (it will be 2 weeks tomorrow), my 12 year old daughter got caught up in vandalizing a neighbor's truck. She didn't cause any damage, but she smeared some cheese on the tailgate and decorated it with toilet paper; the rocks the other kids threw at it did cause damage.
At first she lied to me about her involvement... and then one of the other kids involved ratted her out. Suddenly she's standing in front of a police officer and she's so very, very sorry. I think she's only sorry she got caught.

She's been grounded ever since.

The first day or two she was eager and willing to take on extra chores, since then, not so much. Mostly what happens when I tell her what to do, is a tantrum that would put a 2 year old to shame, so mostly she's just been confined to the house and grounded from hanging out with friends, talking on the phone (because it's a tool of conspiracy), watching TV and using the computer (because we've also had problems in the past and more recently with her violating trust in that department, too).

Lying has been an ongoing issue with her... and there's nothing that bugs me more than a liar. I don't trust her out of my sight...

Perhaps I should have been firmer in my previous lessons, but what's done is done. I hope to make this one stick. The grounding is for an indefinite period of time...

Her job in the mean time is to demonstrate that she has learned to take responsibility for her actions, to stop sneaking around (I've caught her sneaking out to hang out with friends at least twice), and to be honest (I've caught her in a couple more small lies since).

I don't think I'm being too harsh, but maybe I am?

Bolster my resolve.

please

And If you think I'm being to harsh, say so... she almost has me convinced.

No, you aren't being too mean. Believe me in my line of work it's becoming more of the norm than the exception where parents believe their kids over other adults or the police and even go so far as lie and cover for their kids, to get them off.

That's what leads to kids growing up with no sense of personal responsibility.

I agree with wez, that in my childhood knowing my mom was dissapointed in me was worse than any punishment that the school or courts could have done, but that said, there has to be an established sense that your child will respond to this.

I also like wez' idea of making her do some chores for and apologize to the neighbor, but disagree about the removal of privilages. I think that removing of privilages is a good thing and is most effective when you get them to understand that your responsibility to provide, as a parent is as basic as food, shelter, clothing, clean environment and education. Everything beyond that is a privilage and can be taken away and they should be thankful for every single one of those privilages because there are kids that aren't even given the basics let alone the perks.

IMHO

 

[mercury]

I never thought it was funny to break other peoples shi!t as a kid... maybe because I was tuahgt at a prettyyoung age what hard work actually was.

I did make her apologize to the man, but he seems rather **** retentive about his truck and some of the comments that the officer made about him makes me want to just keep her the **** away from him.

And when I was 13, I spent 10 full weeks grounded for bringing home a single D on my report card.... it made me want to get better grades and not spend so much time socializing during class time.

She's already a good liar.... it's in her genes.

What I want her to understand is that when you disrespect others, you get it back tenfold. When you think you can do whatever you want, with no consideration for the hard work of others, you don't get to do ****.

Also... I have a real big glaring example of when problems aren't treated as problems: my brother-in-law... serving a 9-25 year prison sentence because everyone thought he "felt bad enough" about whatever his latest deed was and looked the other way. I don't want her to experience the road he's travelled.

Besides that.... she has completly destroyed every bit of trust I've ever put in her. She has to earn it back, and continuing to sneak around, doing what she knows she isn't suposed to be doing, and continuing to lie to me, isn't doing a thing to change my mind about why I should trust her.

 

[wez]

But you want her to trust you too.. and for her to know that she can come to you when she makes mistakes, and that you'll forgive her and still love her.. You could ground her til she's 18 and then what?

If she thinks you're always gonna be looking o'er her shoulder waiting to take her "stuff" for everything she does wrong she'll just get better at being sneaky and lying, in my opinion.

You tellin' me you never egged a car? Maybe it was just a boy thing..

 

[eddo]

who woulda thought that wez doesn't like when privileges are taken away from him? Who woulda thunk that it wouldn't help him learn anything?

Merc, you are doing what my dad did with me. I spent a semester grounded in high school for bad grades. I learned that there is a time to have fun, and there is a time to get done what needs to be done. I also learned that there was more to life than my little world. (dad wasn't perfect, he eventually forgot that I had been grounded, lol, but by that time I had brought my grades up anyway.)

Do you have any system in place where she can earn back individual privileges? Like doing chores without having being asked for two weeks earns back the phone? (or something similar)

With something like that (which my dad did with allowance,) I learned it was my responsibility to earn that which I wanted. Dad and I had an agreement, and if I didn't feel like fulfilling my end, then I just didn't get any reward. This helped give me a wicked strong work ethic. If I want to get something, I need to be willing to work for it, not just think it will be given to me.

Are you too mean? Not. at. all.

You have seen where a too lenient parent can get children, and it isn't good. She is trying to break you down. She knows dad is away at work, so she is focusing on you. Teenagers do this all the time, and it likely won't end anytime soon. (sorry!)

Stay strong Merc. You are building lifelong principles in her, and she needs them. You are doing good.

 

[mercury]

You tellin' me you never egged a car?

Yes, that's what I'm telling you.

Never.

 

[wez]

who woulda thought that wez doesn't liek when privilidges are taken away form him? Who woulda thunk that it wouldn't help him learn anything?

Well eddo, I'm not a 12 year old girl, wasn't lying, and wasn't breaking peoples sh t.. and you are not my parent/overlord/controller.

What was I suppose to learn? How to be/think like you and do what you want me to do to please you, or else? hahahaha

Or else, please.

You were trying to teach me right from wrong, right eddo? hahahahaha

I think "we" know who learned that lesson..

 

[mercury]

Do you have any system in place where she can earn back individual privlidges? Like doing chores without having being asked for two weeks earns back the phone? (or something similar)

No, I don't have anything like that in place...but it's a **** good idea.

 

[mercury]

please don't start that **** and derail my post... thank you for putting your own BS aside for a while and for your consideration.

 

[eddo]

You tellin' me you never egged a car? Maybe it was just a boy thing..

I've never egged anyone's cars

I've done tp, oreo's on the windows, saran wrap, and other things that cause no damage. Once used 100 rolls of tp on my parents yard so my little sis would have to clean it up (after she had tp'ed my house)

Guess I was raised with respect for other peoples stuff, too- because someone likely worked hard for what they had. Fun can be had without breaking things.

 

[wez]

I had fun breaking the TJ express, didn't you?

That prolly is a good idea merc.. earning the stuff back.

 

[ImWithStupid]

But you want her to trust you too.. and for her to know that she can come to you when she makes mistakes, and that you'll forgive her and still love her.. You could ground her til she's 18 and then what?
If she thinks you're always gonna be looking o'er her shoulder waiting to take her "stuff" for everything she does wrong she'll just get better at being sneaky and lying, in my opinion.

You tellin' me you never egged a car? Maybe it was just a boy thing..

You show a child that you love them more by showing you are watching them and have expectations of them than you do by not watching them. It's a proven fact that children strive for guidance and expectations by adult authority figures. Even if they act or talk differently, they want structure.

Trust like integrity are things that are earned. Once you lose either one, it takes more to get them back than it did to lose them and it should be that way to put a sense of value to these ideals.

 

[ImWithStupid]

You tellin' me you never egged a car? Maybe it was just a boy thing..

I can say that I never did understand some peoples desire to damage other peoples stuff even when I was a kid.

With that said I admit that one Halloween a group of guys and I did go around egging people we knew and did do what we called, "hanging eggs".

What we did was throw a line like fishing line or kite string over a powerline that went across a road. We would then hang an egg by the line, right at windshield level of cars. We would hide and watch cars run into the egg and wonder where the **** it came from.

 

[wez]

All I know is from my own personal experience..

I was free to f ck up, admit it, feel like sh t, and learn from it.. The fear of losing stuff never stopped me from doing anything, and still doesn't, and as an adult, I aint no sneaky liar who'll say/do anything for stuff/priviledges/acceptance.

Seems to be a lot of that going around these days with "respectable" businessmen and politicians who apparently never learned right from wrong. Seems right/wrong for them is what they can make others believe to be true rather than what actually is true.. Hopefully the next generation overall will be different. If not, we're all washed up..

Best of luck merc.. It can't be easy.. hang in there and do the best ya can.

 

[wez]

I can say that I never did understand some peoples desire to damage other peoples stuff even when I was a kid.

I still can't understand adults desires to lie/cheat/steal as well as level entire cities/countries and kill other human beings.. All for stuff/control, whether they admit it or not.

As a kid on the other hand, the intention was for a hearty laugh, not to hurt others.. When ya saw how it did hurt others, you learned, hopefully.

"Hanging eggs".. hahahaha.. oh to be young.. Good to never forget. Lucky you never caused a **** accident..

 

[mercury]

LIke I said... the lying has been an ongoing problem. I've told her over and over that trouble doubles when you mess up, then lie about it, then get caught in the lie... rather than just messing up and dealing with the consequenses.

She knows I love her... That's why I'm being such a hard as on this; I know she's better than what she's been showing me lately.

 

[Ahhlee]

Making a child earn back privileges once they've been taken away is a wonderful thing. It balances punishment with rewards....rewards that are EARNED.

The fact that you are saying her lying is an ongoing problem concerns me. Considering the "trouble" that has been in your family, I'm sure it's scaring the **** out of you.