Ask the Builder...

[kye oat]

why is the tps unneccessary to hook up on the 04-05's? not saying it is necessary, id just like to know what real significant role the tps plays in ignition timing and how the engine responds to it being hooked up and how it responds to it being unplugged. i guess i just want the logistics behind it so i can decide for myself if i ever want to if i feel its worth it.

 

[mailman]

I would like to know this too. I was under the impression that with the tps plugged in, the timing will advance in the lower rpms for better throttle response. With it unplugged, the bike resorts to the WOT map witch has less timing advance. On a dyno pull or drag run, there really should be no difference if I am correct but during other types of riding, one should see a difference in partial throttle openings and the bike should be more responsive. I think the tps sends a signal to the ecu and operates like a "step function" which starts out with more advanced timing then at a certain throttle opening retards the timing, and does this again at even more throttle opening, then resorts to a WOT curve which has the least amount of advance of course. If I am wrong, then please correct me. I am just trying to learn like the next guy.

Mailman

 

[RopherToloson]

why is the tps unneccessary to hook up on the 04-05's? not saying it is necessary, id just like to know what real significant role the tps plays in ignition timing and how the engine responds to it being hooked up and how it responds to it being unplugged. i guess i just want the logistics behind it so i can decide for myself if i ever want to if i feel its worth it.

I would like to know this too. I was under the impression that with the tps plugged in, the timing will advance in the lower rpms for better throttle response. With it unplugged, the bike resorts to the WOT map witch has less timing advance. On a dyno pull or drag run, there really should be no difference if I am correct but during other types of riding, one should see a difference in partial throttle openings and the bike should be more responsive. I think the tps sends a signal to the ecu and operates like a "step function" which starts out with more advanced timing then at a certain throttle opening retards the timing, and does this again at even more throttle opening, then resorts to a WOT curve which has the least amount of advance of course. If I am wrong, then please correct me. I am just trying to learn like the next guy.

Mailman

x3. I am also curious on your findings of TPS connected vs. not and the reasoning behind your selection.

 

[06erdj450]

I know most companies won't, but I might as well ask... Will you guys work on a head that already has port/valve work done?

 

[Morgan]

I unplugged it about 4 years ago but I haven't checked it since it came back from Kenz, I'll peep it.

Dyno tuned at Kenz.

I don't see the tuning as a potential issue unless the summer heat is starting to fatten the bike up significantly. Do you have a way to hook it up to a laptop to check the TPS function and Duty Cycle of the injector? If so, make sure the TPS reads both 0 and 100% and if the Duty Cycle goes over 80% its time to step up on injector size.

Assume 2004/2005 TRX450R for below:

What clutch components (fibers/steels, basket) do you use on an upper 50's/lower 60's HP stock bore bike, without a lock out?

What clutch springs do you use on an upper 50's/lower 60's HP stock bore bike, without a lock out?

OEM clutch packs with OEM baskets, inner hubs, pressure plates unless the customer provides Hinson or another MFG.

Dark Synergy, Dark Synergy Mod (which was an LTR 450 spring), Tokyo Mod LTR springs or our own custom springs.

I know most companies won't, but I might as well ask... Will you guys work on a head that already has port/valve work done?

We do. We recommend sending it in for an evaluation so we can determine if A.) its fixable and B.) its worth it to fix it. The short side is the most important part of the head work and many builders drop the floor to far making it tough to perform the appropriate work to the SSR.

 

[Morgan]

x3. I am also curious on your findings of TPS connected vs. not and the reasoning behind your selection.

The TPS decifers between a part throttle and WOT map. We have not seen any changes on the dyno with the plug plugged in or unplugged so we simply don't run it on the 04/05 bikes. Also, many of our 04/05 builds have cut down harnesses with the TPS plug stripped out.


Just personal preference really.

 

[OTMTRX]

What about TPS on 06+ ? Same thing? Thanks..

 

[junkie]

I don't see the tuning as a potential issue unless the summer heat is starting to fatten the bike up significantly. Do you have a way to hook it up to a laptop to check the TPS function and Duty Cycle of the injector? If so, make sure the TPS reads both 0 and 100% and if the Duty Cycle goes over 80% its time to step up on injector size.

I checked and the speed sensor was plugged back in. However I read that the Dyna ignitions cancel out the speed sensor anyway, can you confirm this because I'd like to know for sure?

I'll see if I can figure out how to check the TPS and Duty Cycle readings you listed as soon as I can diagnose an electrical problem I'm having with it right now.. I have the whole harness unwrapped even, it's killing me. I might have Roy lend me a few parts from his daughters 700 to see if it will help me diagnose the issue. Thanks brother, appreciate all the good info.

 

[ghott]

Going to ask quite a few questions which I am very seriously curious about...and hopefully get a little more discussion going on the forums. I hope Morgan has a little bit of time to where he can answer these...I know Demon is under a pretty heavy work load lately.

1.) For a SB/SS TRX450R engine, if you could only pick one, what do you feel is more important; velocity and the right size port or pure CFM the head can flow?

2.) 04/05 TRX450R intake rings: several companies make them...DASA, FUELATV, and I think even Racers Edge AZ makes one...maybe you guys do as well. Are they all the same or is one better than others?

3.) 04/05 TRX450R air filters: what is your preference? DASA, Velocity, FUELATV with inverted cone...and I've heard that REAZ also makes a HUGE K&N style filter that is even larger than the aforementioned ones?

4.) Dyna ignitions: is Demon able to make custom maps for Dynatek programmable ignitions upon customer request? Can anyone send their ignition to you and have the stock curve put on with an extended rev limit? Since you're a site sponsor/builder here...can you say what the price for that sort of thing is out in the open?

5.) Lastly, is there a point in the 04/05 TRX450R cylinder heads where epoxy is no longer required, or is it always required? If so, what is that point? 500cc+, 550cc+, 600cc+ ?? Or is epoxy use dictated by something else such as how large of a cam you run...or is a combination of things?

 

[Morgan]

Going to ask quite a few questions which I am very seriously curious about...and hopefully get a little more discussion going on the forums. I hope Morgan has a little bit of time to where he can answer these...I know Demon is under a pretty heavy work load lately.

1.) For a SB/SS TRX450R engine, if you could only pick one, what do you feel is more important; velocity and the right size port or pure CFM the head can flow?

2.) 04/05 TRX450R intake rings: several companies make them...DASA, FUELATV, and I think even Racers Edge AZ makes one...maybe you guys do as well. Are they all the same or is one better than others?

3.) 04/05 TRX450R air filters: what is your preference? DASA, Velocity, FUELATV with inverted cone...and I've heard that REAZ also makes a HUGE K&N style filter that is even larger than the aforementioned ones?

4.) Dyna ignitions: is Demon able to make custom maps for Dynatek programmable ignitions upon customer request? Can anyone send their ignition to you and have the stock curve put on with an extended rev limit? Since you're a site sponsor/builder here...can you say what the price for that sort of thing is out in the open?

5.) Lastly, is there a point in the 04/05 TRX450R cylinder heads where epoxy is no longer required, or is it always required? If so, what is that point? 500cc+, 550cc+, 600cc+ ?? Or is epoxy use dictated by something else such as how large of a cam you run...or is a combination of things?

1.) The more things you fix on a TRX head the more it's going to flow. The port shape will always be my main concern. The velocity and CFM will come in time with working the shape and size of the ports. Smooth, long radiuses, no sharp edges, no waves, dead air, etc etc are all things to take care of. We see a lot of "big number" CFM heads talked about, which is great, but it doesn't show anything about how it got to that number. Remember low lifts are seen twice, max lift is only seen once. Also, the stability of the air and making sure it doesn't back up at any time during testing through .450 lift is much more important than a big CFM number.

2.) The DASA ring and filter work very well on the 04-05 TRXs.

3.) DASA and the FCI filters will get most to where they need to be. The RE filter will make slightly more power, but the filter is far to long to fit into the stock airbox, so for people who ride in mud and/or water and need to keep the box, it's not a viable option.

4.) We make custom maps for all types of motors. With the TRX we have built enough to know a range of timing and where it needs to step to on each build. The Dyna is not for all builds though. For example, a pump gasser with modest compression will like the 40* of timing that a stock CDI box has, while a bigger motor in the 500+ range will want timing pulled, otherwise it will fight itself on top. Fuels also play a huge roll in timing. Oxy fuels will require a lot less timing due to their lower octane ratings, otherwise the motor will push the headgasket out. We charge $50 for custom Dyna curve mapping.

5.) The misconception with the TRX heads is that they need epoxy, especially the 04-05 heads. They do not NEED epoxy. You can go over 300 without a drop of it. Will it be as stable as a head that uses epoxy to fix port shapes? No. I see a lot of epoxy being added for the wrong reasons. Epoxy is used to fix dead air on the roof, increase radiuses (sharp radiuses will push fuel away and coagulate on the floor) and to increase the SSR. The motor size for us dictates port widths, volumes in CCs, and valve size.

Think I got all your questions, let me know if I didn't, it's been a crazy couple of weeks.

 

[ghott]

Morgan, fantastic answers! Glad you're on this site to be able to answer these type of questions!

 

[ridinredjav]

got a quastion. do you taper bore carbs?

 

[Kfx450r]

Have you ever done any work on a Kfx450 head? If so what kind of cfm have you got?