Beer vs. Weed

[mercury]

I've seen alcoholic dementia first hand. Massive B-12 shots sometimes helped improve symptoms.

I've never seen a pot head speak to kids hiding in their underwear drawer.

 

[hugo]

Moderation is the key.

 

[Jhony5]

Moderation is the key.

Exactly. If you drink coffee all day, every day, then you will succumb to adverse physical and mental changes. The same applies to beer, liquor and pot.

As to why marijuana is still illegal? I would have to say its the fact the primary vehicle for using it is smoking, and our society has this f cked up slant toward anything that people smoke. Its naughty, and of course it is our governments business to regulate anything that is "bad for ya".

 

[phreakwars]

I do know booze can cause dementia.. and other amnesia disorders like Korsakoff's psychosis..

Korsakoff’s syndrome is a condition that mainly affects chronic alcoholics. It is due to the direct effects of alcohol or to the severe nutritional deficiencies that are associated with chronic alcoholism, and has been seen in association with vitamin B deficiency. The syndrome also occurs in other severe brain disturbances, e.g. paralysis, dementia, brain damage, infections and poisonings. In chronic alcoholism the condition usually occurs following delirium tremens.

The syndrome is characterized by a severe memory defect, especially for recent event, for which the patient compensates by confabulation - the reciting of imaginary experiences. Psychologists working with these patients often have great problems sorting out what is truth and what is lies of what patients say - this is story-telling on a high level. Other symptoms may include delirium, anxiety, fear, depression, confusion, delusions and insomnia; painful extremities, sometimes bilateral wrist drop, more frequent bilateral foot drop with pain or pressure over the long nerves. Confabulation, a requisite for the classic syndrome, is not always present in mild conditions. With or without polyneuropathy. Korsakoff’s description of 1887 was of a case with polyneuritis.

That must be what my uncle has.

He was a chronic alcoholic for year, and his mind has started to go within the last 10 or so.

He constantly talks shiit!!

He lies so much he believes what he is saying. He quit drinking a couple years ago and goes to N.A. meetings all the time, and at the meetings he constantly tells these crazy stories, and I think everyone believes him too because of the way he tells them. He get so emotional about his stories too.... expressing anger and outrage for things that never happened even.

We were letting him live with us for a while, but I found out he was telling all these lies about me at his meetings. Telling everyone there that I smoked pot, and that I sold drugs to high school kids, and that I sold drugs to customers at the pizza place, and all kinds of messed up BS. I had no idea he was saying this crap until a friend of mine that went to a meeting told me about it.

I just couldn't take it anymore, I knew he had mental problems, but his trash talk caused alot of people to believe false things about me and so I had no choice but tell him he had to leave.

It was funny, because after I kicked him out, he went up to Iowa with other family members and totally talked trash about the reason I tossed him out. He said I beat him up and all kinds of nasty things. I just had to laugh..

My mom had him for a while, couldn't stand him any more, tossed him off to her sister, who then tossed him off to her daughter, who then threw him back at my mom, who tossed him to my sister where he is now staying.

I told my mom I don't care who he gets handed off to, just don't bring him back here because I WILL NOT take him in.

Ugghh... all that damn story telling he does !!

And he smokes 3 packs a day too. I don't smoke anymore, don't want my home smelling like tar. Can't stand that nasty smell.
.
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[ImWithStupid]

Exactly. If you drink coffee all day, every day, then you will succumb to adverse physical and mental changes. The same applies to beer, liquor and pot.

As to why marijuana is still illegal? I would have to say its the fact the primary vehicle for using it is smoking, and our society has this f cked up slant toward anything that people smoke. Its naughty, and of course it is our governments business to regulate anything that is "bad for ya".

The "smoking" thing may have something to do with it, but I personally think it comes down to two things.

First off, is fear. Fear that once something is made legal, it is nearly impossible to make it illegal again without some kind of "sundown" clause in the legislation, if for some reason legalization has unseen, negative effects.

Secondly, is ignorance. There are too many people with false perceptions of what marijuana really does to people. There are too many people who still have the whole, "Reefer Madness" mentality of pot. That it makes people go nuts, freak out, kill people or themselves.

 

[mercury]

I was going to mention the "Refer Madness" mentality. I think we may see some changes once the baby boomer crowd loses some power and Gen X steps up to take over.... but that all depends on how much power the Hearst family still holds.

The Hearst family (Hearst publications, Kimberly Clark) was behind a lot of the lobbying efforts making it illegal due to forestry investments and Hemp being a crop that could easily cost them huge profits with their heavy investments in forestry and wood products replacing what had historically been made of hemp.

Hemp was at one point a required crop for farmers.

I've read entries that were supposedly out of Ben Franklin's diaries writing about his crops with mention of having too many male plants or something. For hemp production, the gender of the plant doesn't matter. For smoking quality, you want only female plants. If you're growing it to smoke, you get rid of the males. The female plant, after being stripped of it's buds, is still usable for hemp, since it's the long fibers from the stems that are used for production purposes. Male plants are useless for anything but seed production and totally necessary for it.

Which takes us to DuPont's involvement in the illegalization process. Hemp seed oil used to be a major component in various things that petroleum products have replaced... like paints and varnishes that DuPont produces.

Of course, this is all information gathered through the internet, so who knows if any of it is even accurate

 

[Anna Perenna]

The article you posted says nothing about marijuana induced schizophrenia. It says those whom already have schizophrenia should avoid the use of marijuana as it may cause relapses. Please note the anecdotal nature of any study such as this. An eloquent combination of medical fact, big 'ol confusing words and suppositions.

If marijuana had any chance of causing such debilitating mental disease, I would be nuttier than squirrel sh t by now.

Pardon me, I never said the article mentioned marijuana-induced schizophrenia, but I can understand your assumption.

I probably should have made my meaning clearer (after all, your pot-addled brain needs things to be spelled out

I voted that alcohol is worse than marijuana, for the record.

And my last sentence was apropos of personal experience, not the article - my brother has marijuana-induced schizophrenia. So does my mother's best friend's ex-husband.

It's just a point to consider in this debate, and it hadn't been mentioned previously, so I brought it up ......

 

[Old Salt]

I was going to mention the "Refer Madness" mentality. I think we may see some changes once the baby boomer crowd loses some power and Gen X steps up to take over.... but that all depends on how much power the Hearst family still holds.

The Hearst family (Hearst publications, Kimberly Clark) was behind a lot of the lobbying efforts making it illegal due to forestry investments and Hemp being a crop that could easily cost them huge profits with their heavy investments in forestry and wood products replacing what had historically been made of hemp.

Hemp was at one point a required crop for farmers.

I've read entries that were supposedly out of Ben Franklin's diaries writing about his crops with mention of having too many male plants or something. For hemp production, the gender of the plant doesn't matter. For smoking quality, you want only female plants. If you're growing it to smoke, you get rid of the males. The female plant, after being stripped of it's buds, is still usable for hemp, since it's the long fibers from the stems that are used for production purposes. Male plants are useless for anything but seed production and totally necessary for it.

Which takes us to DuPont's involvement in the illegalization process. Hemp seed oil used to be a major component in various things that petroleum products have replaced... like paints and varnishes that DuPont produces.

Of course, this is all information gathered through the internet, so who knows if any of it is even accurate

I don't know about other states, but hemp was grown in Nebraska during WWII to help in the war effort. I seem to remember that they made rope and a couple other things out of it.

The lagacy being good ol' ditch weed. Frequently harvested for "other" uses.

 

[ImWithStupid]

I don't know about other states, but hemp was grown in Nebraska during WWII to help in the war effort. I seem to remember that they made rope and a couple other things out of it.

The lagacy being good ol' ditch weed. Frequently harvested for "other" uses.

Damn you, OS. There never was ditch weed, and all that stuff grown out on our farm is wild, and it isn't worth harvesting, for a profit, and not a cash crop.

Screw it, the DEA will never find my patch of gold.

 

[Jhony5]

Pardon me, I never said the article mentioned marijuana-induced schizophrenia, but I can understand your assumption.

I probably should have made my meaning clearer (after all, your pot-addled brain needs things to be spelled out

Ohhh.....takin jabs at the slow witted jhony, aye? You posted two links. Immediately following the link wherein schizophrenia and marijuana are surreptitiously linked, you said only this......

I've never met anyone with alcohol-induced schizophrenia ......

The inference was there.

And my last sentence was apropos of personal experience, not the article - my brother has marijuana-induced schizophrenia. So does my mother's best friend's ex-husband

I'm having issue with your wording today, that is for sure. There is no way that you know anyone whom suffers from schizophrenia as a result of marijuana abuse any more than you know Bigfoot. Marijuana DOES NOT induce debilitating mental disease.

Perhaps you know of folks whom had a preexisting and established diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia and they chose to forgo their suppressive medication in lew of self medicating with dope?

But you DO NOT know anyone that has schizophrenia BECAUSE they smoked too much dope.

What you're wandering into is a mine field of hyperbole and statistic manipulation. If you read these studies thoroughly, you will see a pattern emerge. Genetic predispositions and/or a preexisting issue with mental disorders are almost always the precursor.

It goes like this; "Scientists" study 100 people with diagnosed schizophrenia. 75 of these people admit to using/abusing marijuana earlier in life. Then the shark tank is leaped with reckless abandon. The conclusion is made that marijuana played a vital role in inducing schizophrenia in 75% of the cases studied.

Gimme any 100 people of any mental capacity of any cross section/demographic and I'll bet my check that 75% of them smoked marijuana earlier in life. Using this logic I could, by the same token, link just about any condition that my 100 people suffer with their marijuana use.

It's just a point to consider in this debate, and it hadn't been mentioned previously, so I brought it up ......

Put it to rest because I will gleefully piss on your rebuttal.

Consider this; When any group is requesting to study marijuana, they require government permission to do so. As the substance is illegal. Therefor, the scientific study of marijuana is controlled by those whom wish it to retain its status as an illegal and dangerous substance. Do you spot the obvious conflict here?

 

[hugo]

Studies link marijuana, schizophrenia
By Kimberly Read & Marcia Purse, About.com
Updated: June 20, 2006

Last year, Netherlands researchers reviewed five studies and concluded that the use of marijuana (cannabis) approximately doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia. Because the studies excluded anyone with a history of psychosis and controlled for the use of other drugs, they were "able to show the specific effects of cannabis."

Now a new study from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York has shed light on the reason for the link between marijuana and schizophrenia. With several groups of adolescents as their subjects, they used a special type of MRI called diffusion tensor imaging to compare the brains of those with and without schizophrenia, both users and non-users of marijuana. They found that heavy use of marijuana caused the type of abnormalities in certain areas of the brain as were found in the brains of the subjects with schizophrenia, and these abnormalities were the most pronounced in schizophrenic subjects who regularly smoked marijuana. The abnormalities occur in a brain pathway related to language and auditory functions which is still developing during adolescence.

Thus if a young person is genetically at risk for schizophrenia, the research suggests, the use of marijuana can cause the same kind of damage the schizophenia would cause, which could bring on the illness when it might otherwise have not have emerged, cause earlier onset, and/or worsen the condition.

Newsday quoted one of the study's authors, Dr. Manzar Ashtari, as saying, ""Don't put yourself at risk, especially if you have a family history of schizophrenia or severe mental illness -- especially when the brain is still growing."

Smoked a bit of weed as an adolescent. Never bothered either myself or my other personality, Al.

 

[Jhony5]

Studies link marijuana, schizophrenia
By Kimberly Read & Marcia Purse, About.com
Updated: June 20, 2006

Last year, Netherlands researchers reviewed five studies and concluded that the use of marijuana (cannabis) approximately doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia. Because the studies excluded anyone with a history of psychosis and controlled for the use of other drugs, they were "able to show the specific effects of cannabis."

Now a new study from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York has shed light on the reason for the link between marijuana and schizophrenia. With several groups of adolescents as their subjects, they used a special type of MRI called diffusion tensor imaging to compare the brains of those with and without schizophrenia, both users and non-users of marijuana. They found that heavy use of marijuana caused the type of abnormalities in certain areas of the brain as were found in the brains of the subjects with schizophrenia, and these abnormalities were the most pronounced in schizophrenic subjects who regularly smoked marijuana. The abnormalities occur in a brain pathway related to language and auditory functions which is still developing during adolescence.

Thus if a young person is genetically at risk for schizophrenia, the research suggests, the use of marijuana can cause the same kind of damage the schizophrenia would cause, which could bring on the illness when it might otherwise have not have emerged, cause earlier onset, and/or worsen the condition.

Newsday quoted one of the study's authors, Dr. Manzar Ashtari, as saying, ""Don't put yourself at risk, especially if you have a family history of schizophrenia or severe mental illness -- especially when the brain is still growing."

Smoked a bit of weed as an adolescent. Never bothered either myself or my other personality, Al.

Again, as with all studies I have read. No indication whatsoever that marijuana causes schizophrenia. Please note, "similar abnormalities" in no way suggests a manifestation of the illness of schizophrenia.

Please make note of the elusive language;

Thus if a young person is genetically at risk for schizophrenia, the research suggests, the use of marijuana can cause the same kind of damage the schizophrenia would cause, which could bring on the illness when it might otherwise have not have emerged, cause earlier onset, and/or worsen the condition.

Maybe its not the marijuana at all causing these localized "abnormalities". Maybe its the tar in the cigarettes they smoke. Maybe its the caffeine in their coffee. Maybe its the pesticide on their apples. Maybe its the pet dander. Maybe.....you motherf cking assholes should stop wasting my tax dollars trying to prove that pot use leads to the sighting of pink elephants that chant "KILL KILL KILL".

 

[hugo]

Let me requote:

Now a new study from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York has shed light on the reason for the link between marijuana and schizophrenia. With several groups of adolescents as their subjects, they used a special type of MRI called diffusion tensor imaging to compare the brains of those with and without schizophrenia, both users and non-users of marijuana. They found that heavy use of marijuana caused the type of abnormalities in certain areas of the brain as were found in the brains of the subjects with schizophrenia, and these abnormalities were the most pronounced in schizophrenic subjects who regularly smoked marijuana. The abnormalities occur in a brain pathway related to language and auditory functions which is still developing during adolescence.

Once again, moderation is the key.

 

[Jhony5]

Let me requote:



Once again, moderation is the key.

"Heavy" is a very subjective term.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

"Heavy" is a very subjective term.

So is "addiction".

 

[Jhony5]

So is "addiction".

Touch?.



I can quit anytime.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Touch?.



I can quit anytime.

View attachment 1938

 

[nucleareaction]

I was actually thinking about all of this today and happened to come across this particular debate forum. Figured I would post my opinion.

If it was up to me. Alcohol should be made entirely illegal whether bud is made legal or not. Think about how many people's lives you know of personally that alcohol has directly affected. I lost count in my world. My girlfriend has been going to AA for three years. My room-mate just started going to AA because he got to drunk the other night and got into a fight and then got picked up for a PI. Statistics prove that deaths caused by Marijuana each year are 0. Wouldn't that be nice if we could say that about Alcohol. I read a post earlier on this discussion where the guy talks about how he just has a few beers and doesn't drive drunk but he can't stand a stoned idiot driving around on the road. Just think...I only take a few tokes but I can't stand those drunk idiot drivers. In facts, if I see a person driving with an opened beer in the car or anything of the sort I will absolutely call the cops. There is no excuse for drinking and driving.

Now lets talk about the economic part of it all. Marijuana has much more hope for fixing this country's fat ass debt problem than alcohol could ever think about. There are so many resources involved in Marijuana/Hemp.

Personally I think the government already has something involved with the "drug wars" in America and they don't want to make anything legal because their actually profiting from it all in the background. But thats just a theory all in all. Nothing proven of course.

i hope you all enjoyed my little rant on beer vs. weed. Thanks for comin' out.

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[hugo]

Statistics prove that deaths caused by Marijuana each year are 0.

Source of those statistics?

 

[mercury]

They already tried making alchol illegal and all it did was create a black market that fueled organaized crime.

Alcohol consumption has killed a lot of my relatives, but so did bootlegging.