Facism anyone?

[quarky]

it was closer to 6 mil, around 5,709,329

http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/bldied.htm

 

[hugo]

Have a read of George Orwell 1986, it has some really disturbing similarities to percent day manipulation of the media and information that is percent by every right wing government presently in power .

Is that the sequel to 1984? Of course, Mussolini and Hitler were both socialists wiith left wing economic policies. Mussolini was an ex-Marxist before tweaking it to improve economic efficiency. It is much easier for civil rights to be curbed when economic rights are also curbed.

McCain/Feingold was the greatest attack on the 1st Amendment since the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. It got the overwhelming support of the left party and enough right support to get by.

You need to read some history that does not come from a Godless Commie 101 course.

 

[fullauto]

When you judge a system of governance, you have to take in in two forms... With and without war...

War is without a doubt going to skew any sort of measurment and thus makes any judgement almost invalid...

If you want to draw lines, do it with and without war... that is the only way to trully judge government...

If I were as powerful as Austrailia, and not in war, I would certainly choose republic/capitalist... however, if austrailia were locked in a life or death struggle, I would deffinately choose fascism/capitalist to mobilize the nation to the threat... but I would have to switch back to republic once it was over... The good thing about western governments, is that we allow for emergency powers that can do just that... allow full control of governement in times of war for a limited time but then runs out... Democracy/republic is a very fluid system of governence....

 

[quarky]

If I were as powerful as Austrailia, and not in war, I would certainly choose republic/capitalist... however, if austrailia were locked in a life or death struggle, I would deffinately choose fascism/capitalist to mobilize the nation to the threat... but I would have to switch back to republic once it was over...

Agreed, in a state of war the need for security is greater than the need for freedom of speach, during ww2 the allied nations basically became dictatorships, after the war they reverted to democratic rule. I think the worse thing that could happen in regards to any war and I will use the war on terrorism as an example, is for elections to be held and the new leader(s) to unilaterally withdraw. I do not agree with John Howards policies in every respect, his taxation policies, social policies, health care and education policies all suck dogs balls. But in regards to his stance on the wars against terrorism and his support for the usa I agree with him.

 

[quarky]

Is that the sequel to 1984?

You need to read some history that does not come from a Godless Commie 101 course.

doh sorry type I meant 1984

As to the godless commie 101 quote, bite me
Religion and democracy do not go hand in hand, even though the bible bashes would like the world to think so.
Hitler and Mussolini were good little catholics, so I guess if they repented for there sins they would be on gods right hand now.
Talk about the get out of jail free card, go a killing spreed, butcher who ever you want and if you say you're sorry, all forgiven, what a ****ing joke.
Please abuse me again, using your religious bull twod, I like the abuse

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...McCain/Feingold was the greatest attack on the 1st Amendment since the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. It got the overwhelming support of the left party and enough right support to get by...

You need to read some history that does not come from a Godless Commie 101 course.

Well, at last, something worth sinking my teeth into...

I'm curious as to your comments regarding the McCain/Feingold Act as being an assault on the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution. How so?

For those who do not know:

http://www.brookings.org/gs/cf/debate/MF_summary.htm

"The "Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2001" passed the Senate 59-41 on April 2, 2001. The legislation-known as "McCain-Feingold" after its co-sponsors, Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Russell Feingold (D-WI)-would ban soft money contributions to national parties; increase individual hard money contribution limits; and restrict the ability of corporations (including non-profit corporations) and labor unions to run "electioneering" ads featuring the names and/or likenesses of candidates. It also would redefine regarding what constitutes coordination between candidates and outside groups, require broadcasters to offer candidates the lowest available advertising rates, and permit candidates who face self-financing opponents to raise campaign funds in excess of the current limits."

----------------

Personally, I find it morally reprehensible and deplorable that it is legal to give ANY money to political parties, political candidates, or political office holders of any kind. To me it is simply an enduring and ever present reminder that our government is just as corrupt as the next one and that anyone and anything in our government, can be had for the right price.

Lastly, I find your "Godless Commie" reference hysterical; Especially since I am an agnostic pluralist and find nothing more hypocritical than a "Religious Democratist"; a Republican by any other name.

 

[smutt butt]

And the only thing keeping the American people from knwoing that Dubya person is a facist is the fact that he keeps using the word freedom. Sad how gullible we've become.

At least get off of your momma's titty before solving the worlds problems little boy.

It is sad that it will take another muslim terrorist attack to make idiots like you understand.

How many americans must be killed by terrorists before you dickheads shut the **** up about the war on terrorism? What if your mommy had been in the wtc?

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Let's play Sing Along Everybody!

You know how, join right in!

(To the tune of Old McDonald)

Old G.W. said they got WMD's, E I E I O

So into Iraq then we must go, E I E I O

We swore they were here,
and we thought they were there,
here a bomb,
there a bomb,
everywhere a dirty bomb...

Old G.W. Found no WMD's, E I E I O

Singing makes me feel happy! How about you boys and girls?

BUT REMEMBER...

The terrorists are everywhere. We must be on the lookout for the terrorists. Anybody could be a terrorist. They want to kill you. They want to destroy our American way of life. The terrorists are evil. They are everywhere. Maybe you are a terrorist. Maybe your mother is a terrorists. Maybe your coworker is a terrorist. You'll never know who is and who is not a terrorist.

I think they raised the terrorist alert from YELLOW to ORANGE. OH ****, OH ****, WE'RE SCREWED. The Terrorists are coming!

Um, Isn't this "Alert" based upon information from the same analyst folk who brought you Iraqi WMD's! OH **** IS RIGHT!

You'll be sorry when the terrorists get you and your family. They won't get me and mine because I'm looking for the terrorists. I'm seeking them out. I've got a house full of guns, and ammo, and grenades, and rocket launchers and machine guns and and and. Terrorists better beware. I'll shoot you on sight. I know what you look like. Turban wearing sand ******s. Damn Terrorists. They are everywhere. See any terrorists today?

Remember, kill a baby terrorist before it has a chance to grow up even if you have to go to its country to do it. Jesus will thank you for your continued support!

Terrorists. Yes even the word sounds scary. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

Fear Fear Fear. Aren't you afraid yet? Terrorists. Terrorists! TERRORISTS!!! Come on, be scared.

Never mind that your chances of being killed by being struck by lightning are 500 times more likely than being killed by the evil terrorists, we have to be on the lookout for terrorists. We have to find them, kill them, before they kill us and destroy America. If your not for stopping the terrorists, then your not an American.

What a complete pile of mass hysteria. Pure ****.

HEY Smutt Butt!

At least get off of your knees and stop sucking the president's **** before solving the worlds problems little boy!

 

[smutt butt]

I hope you fukin die by a peaceful muslim you stupid idiot.


Sep. 11 never happenned right.

 

[smutt butt]

I'm sorry i shouldn't have said i hope you die.






I wish your ****ing kids had been on the airplane while it was being flown into a building.

 

[hugo]

doh sorry type I meant 1984

As to the godless commie 101 quote, bite me
Religion and democracy do not go hand in hand, even though the bible bashes would like the world to think so.
Hitler and Mussolini were good little catholics, so I guess if they repented for there sins they would be on gods right hand now.
Talk about the get out of jail free card, go a killing spreed, butcher who ever you want and if you say you're sorry, all forgiven, what a ****ing joke.
Please abuse me again, using your religious bull twod, I like the abuse

You're a moron. I am agnostic myself have never quoted the Bible in our debates. Just refuted your loony tunes, space alien, version of history. Hitler was no good little Catholic. You need to check out some quotes of his after he obtained power. Of course you don't find that in Godless Commie 101 readings. Hitler was pretty antagonistic toward religion.

 

[hugo]

Lastly, I find your "Godless Commie" reference hysterical; Especially since I am an agnostic pluralist and find nothing more hypocritical than a "Religious Democratist"; a Republican by any other name.

That comment was directed toward Quarky, not yourself. I don't have time to debate McCain/Feingold extensively right now. It sure did not stop Soros from spending a lot of money. It simply rechanneled the money flow while giving incumbants protection from ads against them during an election period.

Let me cut and paste:

Supreme Court Case
In its landmark 1976 ruling, Buckley v. Valeo, the Justices affirmed that spending in campaigns is equivalent to speech. They realized that candidates rely on mass media (television and radio) to get their message out to the people. Tampering with monetary resources would prohibit candidates from buying that airtime, thereby limiting their conversation with the voters.

The Buckley ruling also permitted unlimited spending by persons or groups that act independently of a candidate. These are groups, such as the NRA, the AFL-CIO, the ACLU and the Chamber of Commerce, that Mr. McCain's bill tries to silence sixty days prior to an election.

Buckley is based on a simple principle - the First Amendment -- that says:

"Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech ..."

The Buckley ruling has been proven to be a major obstacle for the so-called reformers, like Senator McCain. The High Court stated:

"These restrictions limit political expression at the core of our electoral process, and of First Amendment freedoms."

Regarding independent expenditures by groups, the Justices wrote:

"The concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment."

The Court used this analogy in the Buckley case:

"Being free to engage in unlimited political expression subject to a ceiling on expenditures is like being free to drive an automobile as far and as often as one desires... on a single tank of gas."

Harm to Public Debate
Senator McCain and other so-called reformers would actually harm the political process. Under McCain-Feingold, the losers would be the public because fewer voices would be heard. The clear winners would be incumbent politicians, rich candidates and the media.

Because of the power and perks of incumbency, cutting off a challenger's speech and that of his allies, would enhance re-election of incumbents.
Rich politicians who self-finance their own campaigns would have no limit placed on them. That means more Ross Perots, Donald Trumps, and other multi-millionaires running for office.
Finally, the media would be the kingmakers. Without the ability to buy commercial time, free media coverage on the news becomes even more important. Do we want Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings picking our representatives?

Want to reduce corruption in government? Reduce the scope and size of government and you will reduce corruption.

 

[fullauto]

BUT REMEMBER...

The terrorists are everywhere. We must be on the lookout for the terrorists. Anybody could be a terrorist. They want to kill you. They want to destroy our American way of life. The terrorists are evil. They are everywhere. Maybe you are a terrorist. Maybe your mother is a terrorists. Maybe your coworker is a terrorist. You'll never know who is and who is not a terrorist.

I think they raised the terrorist alert from YELLOW to ORANGE. OH ****, OH ****, WE'RE SCREWED. The Terrorists are coming!

Um, Isn't this "Alert" based upon information from the same analyst folk who brought you Iraqi WMD's! OH **** IS RIGHT!

You'll be sorry when the terrorists get you and your family. They won't get me and mine because I'm looking for the terrorists. I'm seeking them out. I've got a house full of guns, and ammo, and grenades, and rocket launchers and machine guns and and and. Terrorists better beware. I'll shoot you on sight. I know what you look like. Turban wearing sand ******s. Damn Terrorists. They are everywhere. See any terrorists today?

Remember, kill a baby terrorist before it has a chance to grow up even if you have to go to its country to do it. Jesus will thank you for your continued support!

Terrorists. Yes even the word sounds scary. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

Fear Fear Fear. Aren't you afraid yet? Terrorists. Terrorists! TERRORISTS!!! Come on, be scared.

Never mind that your chances of being killed by being struck by lightning are 500 times more likely than being killed by the evil terrorists, we have to be on the lookout for terrorists. We have to find them, kill them, before they kill us and destroy America. If your not for stopping the terrorists, then your not an American.

What a complete pile of mass hysteria. Pure ****.

HEY Smutt Butt!

At least get off of your knees and stop sucking the president's **** before solving the worlds problems little boy!

I can see the FNORDS ! ! !

``Very nice,'' I said. ``But why did you bring me up here?'' ``It's time for you to see the fnords,'' he replied. Then I woke up in bed and it was the next morning. I made breakfast in a pretty nasty mood, wondering if I'd seen the fnords, whatever the hell they were, in the hours he had blacked out, or if I would see them as soon as I went out into the street.

I had some pretty gruesome ideas about them, I must admit. Creatures with three eyes and tentacles, survivors from Atlantis, who walked among us, invisible due to some form of mind shield, and did hideous work for the Illuminati. It was unnerving to contemplate, and I finally gave in to my fears and peeked out the window, thinking it might be better to see them from a distance first. Nothing. Just ordinary sleepy people, heading for their busses and subways.

That calmed me a little, so I set out the toast and coffee and fetched the New York Times from the hallway. I turned the radio to WBAI and caught some good Vivaldi, sat down, grabbed a piece of toast and started skimming the first page. Then I saw the fnords. The feature story involved another of the endless squabbles between Russia and the U.S. in the UN General Assembly, and after each direct quote from the Russian delegate I read a quite distinct ``Fnord!'' The second lead was about a debate in congress on getting the troops out of costa Rica; every argument presented by Senator Bacon was followed by another ``Fnord!'' At the bottom of the page was a Times depth-type study of the growing pollution problem and the increasing use of gas masks among New Yorkers; the most distressing chemical facts were interpolated with more ``Fnords.''

Suddenly I saw Hagbard's eyes burning into me and heard his voice: ``Your heart will remain calm. Your adrenalin gland will remain calm. Calm, all-over calm. You will not panic. you will look at the fnord and see the it. You will not evade it or black it out. you will stay calm and face it.'' And further back, way back: my first-grade teacher writing FNORD on the blackboard, while a wheel with a spiral design turned and turned on his desk, turned and turned, and his voice droned on, IF YOU DON'T SEE THE FNORD IT CAN'T EAT YOU, DON'T SEE THE FNORD, DON'T SEE THE FNORD . . .

I looked back at the paper and still saw the fnords. This was one step beyond Pavlov, I realized. The first conditioned reflex was to experience the panic reaction (the activation syndrome, it's technically called) whenever encountering the word ``fnord.'' The second conditioned reflex was to black out what happened, including the word itself, and just to feel a general low-grade emergency without knowing why.

And the third step, of course, was to attribute this anxiety to the news stories, which were bad enough in themselves anyway. Of course, the essence of control is fear. The fnords produced a whole population walking around in chronic low-grade emergency, tormented by ulcers, dizzy spells, nightmares, heart palpitations and all the other symptoms of too much adrenalin. All my left-wing arrogance and contempt for my countrymen melted, and I felt a genuine pity.

No wonder the poor bastards believe anything they're told, walk through pollution and overcrowding without complaining, watch their son hauled off to endless wars and butchered, never protest, never fight back, never show much happiness or eroticism or curiosity or normal human emotion, live with perpetual tunnel vision, walk past a slum without seeing either the human misery it contains or the potential threat it poses to their security . . .

Then I got a hunch, and turned quickly to the advertisements. it was as I expected: no fnords. That was part of the gimmick, too: only in consumption, endless consumption, could they escape the amorphous threat of the invisible fnords. I kept thinking about it on my way to the office. If I pointed out a fnord to somebody who hadn't been deconditioned, as Hagbard deconditioned me, what would he or she say? They'd probably read the word before or after it. ``No this word,'' I'd say. And they would again read an adjacent word. But would their panic level rise as the threat came closer to consciousness?

I preferred not to try the experiment; it might have ended with a psychotic fugue in the subject. The conditioning, after all, went back to grade school. No wonder we all hate those teachers so much: we have a dim, masked memory of what they've done to us in converting us into good and faithful servants for the Illuminati. - Robert Anton Wilson

 

[quarky]

You're a moron. I am agnostic myself have never quoted the Bible in our debates. Just refuted your loony tunes, space alien, version of history. Hitler was no good little Catholic. You need to check out some quotes of his after he obtained power. Of course you don't find that in Godless Commie 101 readings. Hitler was pretty antagonistic toward religion.

To say Hitler was not a catholic is perhaps one of the most misguilded pieces of crap you have said so far, even though Hilter turned his back on christianity in his later years, he was raised as a catholic, his views on anti-Semitism are based in catholic doctrine and were the basis for his views on facism. So I suggest you read up on your history, even though Hitler became what he called a Pagan, the root of his evil was his youth and his up bringing in the church. Even when the nazis took control of rome and the vatican, he had no clear plans to remove the pope from power, why? Because deep in his heart of hearts he was still a catholic.
Also where the **** do you get off calling me a godless commie, you narrow minded, in breeding, mother ****ing corn hick.

 

[italiano_Pride]

Hitler was also elected in a free democratic election. When you look back at National Geographic before the holocaust the U.S. view of Adolf Hitler was quite favorable. Shows how wrong our judement can be sometimes.

 

[fullauto]

Hitler was also elected in a free democratic election. When you look back at National Geographic before the holocaust the U.S. view of Adolf Hitler was quite favorable. Shows how wrong our judement can be sometimes.

Actually, to be factual, I'm going to set this straight for the record... Not to disagree with you... He was democratically seated, but when we discuss anything Nazi related here, we have to make sure to give ABSOLUTE truth as to not confuse anything...

Hitler LOST the election with only a little more than 30% of the vote, but was then handed the second in command by the first in charge to build a majority rule needed in democracy.... Either way, democracy gave him to us, but he was not elected per se....

Just a minor detail... but it could fix some arguments ahead of time... I've cought myself saying that he was elected before, and I know I shouldn't...

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hitler was also elected in a free democratic election. When you look back at National Geographic before the holocaust the U.S. view of Adolf Hitler was quite favorable. Shows how wrong our judement can be sometimes.

Yeah...just look at G.W. Bush. We once thought he was quite favorable as well...

****, we screwed up again.

 

[fullauto]

yeah... I thought CES was reasonable at one time too... Man was I wrong!

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

yeah... I thought CES was reasonable at one time too... Man was I wrong!

Oh, I'm very reasonable. It's just that a few of you misguided individuals cannot stomach it when I prove your ridiculous hyperbole to be blatently untrue or horribly overblown.

Hey, I know it hurts you, but you'll get used to it. Truly.

 

[count zero]

Let's play Sing Along Everybody!

You know how, join right in!

(To the tune of Old McDonald)

Old G.W. said they got WMD's, E I E I O

So into Iraq then we must go, E I E I O

We swore they were here,
and we thought they were there,
here a bomb,
there a bomb,
everywhere a dirty bomb...

Old G.W. Found no WMD's, E I E I O

Singing makes me feel happy! How about you boys and girls?

BUT REMEMBER...

The terrorists are everywhere. We must be on the lookout for the terrorists. Anybody could be a terrorist. They want to kill you. They want to destroy our American way of life. The terrorists are evil. They are everywhere. Maybe you are a terrorist. Maybe your mother is a terrorists. Maybe your coworker is a terrorist. You'll never know who is and who is not a terrorist.

I think they raised the terrorist alert from YELLOW to ORANGE. OH ****, OH ****, WE'RE SCREWED. The Terrorists are coming!

Um, Isn't this "Alert" based upon information from the same analyst folk who brought you Iraqi WMD's! OH **** IS RIGHT!

You'll be sorry when the terrorists get you and your family. They won't get me and mine because I'm looking for the terrorists. I'm seeking them out. I've got a house full of guns, and ammo, and grenades, and rocket launchers and machine guns and and and. Terrorists better beware. I'll shoot you on sight. I know what you look like. Turban wearing sand ******s. Damn Terrorists. They are everywhere. See any terrorists today?

Remember, kill a baby terrorist before it has a chance to grow up even if you have to go to its country to do it. Jesus will thank you for your continued support!

Terrorists. Yes even the word sounds scary. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

Fear Fear Fear. Aren't you afraid yet? Terrorists. Terrorists! TERRORISTS!!! Come on, be scared.

Never mind that your chances of being killed by being struck by lightning are 500 times more likely than being killed by the evil terrorists, we have to be on the lookout for terrorists. We have to find them, kill them, before they kill us and destroy America. If your not for stopping the terrorists, then your not an American.

What a complete pile of mass hysteria. Pure ****.

HEY Smutt Butt!

At least get off of your knees and stop sucking the president's **** before solving the worlds problems little boy!

That was the funniest thing I have seen all day.
Before you discount this person's ideas, take a look at what they
are calling the Patriot Act II, and take a look at what it does to
our civil liberties. It erases them. I can't wait until this one passes
so I can be put in jail for life for protesting, or stripped of my BORN
RIGHT TO CITIZENSHIP IN THIS ****ING COUNTRY!

Wake up people, they are using 9-11 as an excuse to take over the
world and take over our lives.