Finally some of my brothers are waking up!

[RoyalOrleans]

Once again - What makes the Muslim person any different than you? If your capable of deciding against something your family may do that you thought was wrong, why couldn't the Muslim person do the same? Tell me what that difference is.

Just read this, scout.


Saudi Police "stopped" Fire Rescue

 

[Lethalfind]

How heinous are we talking here? Like she commited grand theft? or "it rubs the lotion on it skin or it gets the hose again" ,heinous?

We were discussing terrorism, murder mayhem, that sort of thing.
But I have to say that I would report a loved one for something far less then that. There are times when being in jail is the only thing that stops a person from escalating to much worse things.

 

[Lethalfind]

Once again - What makes the Muslim person any different than you? If your capable of deciding against something your family may do that you thought was wrong, why couldn't the Muslim person do the same? Tell me what that difference is.

You really aren't very well informed, that whole point of what I am (and much of the country) saying is that the Muslim would not sell out his family and friends for doing something of this caliber...

Proof of what I am saying is...have you ever read a report of a Muslim turning in one of his own for a violent act they are planning, ever???

How many Muslims were involved in the terror attacks in the US, yet NO ONE reported them before hand.

How many Muslims were involved in the terror attacks last summer in the UK, yet NO ONE reported them before hand...the list goes on.

Osama still walks the planet, how big is the bounty on his head, if I remember enough to live the rest of your life comfortable, yet NO ONE has turned the ******* in.

I know you want everything to be pretty and rosey however, their pychological profiles are not like that, they are raised very differently then we are, their whole belief system is different then ours.

PLEASE don't take my word for it, I'm not saying anything original here, read up on their history, read up on their culture. They won't thank you for your even handed approach, they would kill you just as quickly as an American who hated them.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Your blind if you think you can trust a Muslim...

Not only is Samir a Muslim that I can trust, I think he deserves to be decorated with the highest honors and should be given complete respect for being the person that he is.

Read this...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/05/iraq.saddam/

and to hear more of his story, read this...

http://riverfronttimes.com/issues/2005-04-13/news/feature.html

Here is a man (not a Muslim) that was left hung out to dry after Desert Storm and still did his part to return and assist the US in Iraqi Freedom.

This Muslim definitely has my respect and is more of a man than I have been and more than anyone else here. If you say different, buck up and prove it.

 

[scout]

Just read this, scout.


Saudi Police "stopped" Fire Rescue

The fact that they have a police commission for this should tell you not everyone agrees with their line of thinking.

 

[papabryant]

You're a digusting human being MRIH.

I don't remember the last time an independent atheist group felt the need to murder masses innocencents. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong, but perhaps it about time we knock off all the psychopaths.

Red Dawn? People's Liberation Front of the Philipeans? Symbianese Liberation Army? Or how about the shooters at Columbine High School?

 

[onethreeone]

To a muslim the koran is the word of allah so he/she must accept it all or deny it all, you cannot edit out the parts the west dont like, also to a true muslim there are only two kinds of people in this world muslims and non muslims and dont forget it, when they are weak the are meek but when they have the upper hand it will be the clerics calling the shots.

 

[hugo]

Red Dawn? People's Liberation Front of the Philipeans? Symbianese Liberation Army? Or how about the shooters at Columbine High School?

Might add the USSR, Red China and Cambodia under Pol Pot.

 

[eisanbt]

Red Dawn? People's Liberation Front of the Philipeans? Symbianese Liberation Army? Or how about the shooters at Columbine High School?

For one, commies striving for communism (especially during the cold war) sure as hell don't represent the athiest community, they represent the communists. The difference being it is not Atheism they were using violence for, it is merely part of most communist docterines.
And what might the Columbine Shooters have to do with a gorup movment towards pushing the ideals through violence? Was their message "We're shooting up the school because religion should be abolished?" Hell even if it was, they're independents.

And for the Symbionese Liberation Army: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army

"In the manifesto "Symbionese Liberation Army Declaration of Revolutionary War & the Symbionese Program" DeFreeze explained that "the name 'symbionese' is taken from the word symbiosis and we define its meaning as a body of dissimilar bodies and organisms living in deep and loving harmony and partnership in the best interest of all within the body"; apparently the founders of the SLA had different human races in mind when coining the term. Although the SLA considered themselves leaders of the Black revolution, DeFreeze was the only Black member. DeFreeze's seven-headed SLA hydra symbol was also based on the seven principles of Kwanzaa, each head representing a principle. They are: Umoja (Unity), Kujichagulia (self-determination), Ujima (collective work and responsibility), Ujamaa (cooperative economics), Nia (purpose), Kuumba (creativity), and Imani (faith).

Despite these revolutionary and semi-religious beliefs of DeFreeze, Russ Little attests that the group's primary activity during this period was acquiring, storing and training in firearms at various public shooting ranges (Stone 2004)."


None of your mentionned groups were fighting FOR atheism. By that logic you could blame war on whatever religion the practitioners are who carry it out.

Crusades were about religion. What happened in Nigeria was based around religion. Colombine were nutcase teens and the Reds were Reds.

 

[hugo]

Yes, and ethnic strife between groups is always much more likely when resources are scarce. That tells the logical person that the root cause of almost all wars is due to economic scarcity.

 

[hugo]

Let us look at a rational analysis of strife in Nigeria.

Analysis: Behind Nigeria's violence

By Dan Isaacs
BBC, Nigeria

In the first four years following Nigeria's return to democratic rule in 1999, at least 10,000 people were killed in communal violence across the country, but in recent months, these clashes have been notably less frequent.

But this latest unrest in Plateau State is a worrying indication that these tensions remain never far from the surface, and that, in a country with such high levels of poverty, the underlying issues of access to scarce resources such as land and jobs are as much of an issue as ever.

Nigeria's Middle-Belt has hundreds of communities living side-by-side
Some of the violence has pitched Muslims against Christians, but all of them have fallen across different tribal and cultural divides.

From the deserts of the north to the tropical forest regions of the south and east, it is home to around 120 million people, divided up into some 250 different ethnic groups.

The broad characterisation of a Muslim Hausa-speaking north, and a Christian south made up of two dominant tribes - the Yoruba in the southwest and the Ibo in the southeast - is a vast over-simplification.

In some states across central Nigeria, for example, it is possible to drive down a road, stopping at each tiny settlement, encountering a different language spoken in every single one.

And to further complicate this ethnic mix, over the decades and even centuries, people have moved around what is now modern day Nigeria.

A substantial minority of southern Christians now live in the north, as many northern Hausa Muslims have migrated south.

Complex conflicts

So, conflict between these communities, when it does occur, is a complex affair.

Whatever the historical justifications, the conflict is always and everywhere about access to scarce resources

It can be rooted in religious disagreements - the introduction of Islamic law, for example, in some northern states has proved extremely contentious.

But it most often boils down to competition between those that see themselves as the true 'indigens' of an area, and those that are considered to be more recent 'settlers'.

Whatever the historical justifications, the conflict is always and everywhere about access to scarce resources.

This might be farmland, or employment, or access to political power. It could even be jealousy over the provision of water or electricity to one village but not its neighbour.

Economic differences

At their root, these differences are not cultural or religious. They are economic.

The tragedy of Nigeria is that over the past few decades its population has grown rapidly, but despite the country's vast oil wealth, the economy has failed to keep pace.


Reports of clashes in one part of Nigeria can lead to reprisals elsewhere
Nigerians have been getting poorer by the year.

And along with this, the failure of the state to provide adequate education for the vast majority of the population, has produced a frustrated and angry underclass of largely urban, unemployed youths.

It is to this disempowered group that ambitious politicians and religious leaders look for support.

Sometimes it is for the best of motives - to find ways to improve their lot in life by representing their interests.

But more often, the motive is personal ambition.

A politician without a power base is worthless. A politician with an army of supporters behind him can win elections and influence people.

Social division

Many observers in Nigeria believe that the roots of the violence across much of the country are not religious or cultural.

They say the conflicts are created and stoked by politicians both at a local and national level who seek to gain advantage from social division.


Most of Nigeria's market-stalls are run by Muslims
It is a cynical view, but one that has strong evidence to support it.

One need look no further than means used to distribute the country's vast oil wealth from the federal government in Abuja to the local level.

It all travels down this path in the form of contracts handed out to political favourites.

Contracts for building roads, schools, and hospitals; for supplying electricity, water and medicines.

In fact, almost all economic activity in the country works on this principle - the awarding of contracts. It makes those with access to the source of power rich, and those who do not have power want it all the more.

Ordinary victims

And caught in the middle of all this are the ordinary Nigerians, whose local disputes are hijacked by cynical politicians prepared to pay sections of the community sums of money to foment unrest.

And that's all it takes.

Once triggered, the violence has its own momentum.

Muslims hear that Muslims are being killed elsewhere and take up arms to kills Christians in their own neighbourhood.

And then, perhaps, Christians in another part of the country will get to hear about their brothers being murdered and carry out reprisals on local Muslims.

It is a cycle that is difficult to break, particularly if it is repeatedly nudged over the edge by the politicians, or even external influences.

Take for example, the riots in the northern city of Kano in October 2001.

That began after a peaceful anti-US demonstration by local Muslims, angry at the bombing of Afghanistan.

It quickly degenerated however into a violent inter-faith battle, most probably stoked up by local political rivalries.

The cause, therefore, was not religious, but because the riots pitted Muslim against Christian, they had the appearance of being so.

Pretty typical.

 

[eisanbt]

Yes, and ethnic strife between groups is always much more likely when resources are scarce. That tells the logical person that the root cause of almost all wars is due to economic scarcity.

Bout' time somebody agreed with me. However I'm not 100% with the root of all war being economic. It does however lead to extreme measures such as war and witch burnings (Both literal and figuritive).

The lack of western fanaticism in many aspects of society is an example of how economic stability helps create a more moderate society. If times aren't desprate then no desprate measures are necessary.