snafu said:Well wardmd I will agree with you on all points except the sentence of Welshofer.
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snafu said:Well wardmd I will agree with you on all points except the sentence of Welshofer.
We can
Cogito Ergo Sum said:I went back and re-read your posts. Protocols of the Elders of Zion
wardmd said:You seem to be scared by EVERYONE, CES...
wardmd said:There is a stark difference between DELIBERATELY cutting off the fingers, hands, HEADS of people who are CLEARLY not combatants (on either side of the conflict) and using EXTREME "interrogation" techniques on KNOWN combatants.
wardmd said:Let me be clear
wardmd said:You KNOW that if someone, say, kidnaps a loved one of YOURS, and YOU have one (or more) of the people you have reason to believe knows where your loved one is – don’t tell ME you wouldn’t beat the living crap out of them (EVEN doing things that Senator McCain would object to), in order to get ANY information out of them!
wardmd said:That is NOT to say that you would not, later, be prosecuted for your (possibly) criminal behavior (and I think Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer got off WAY too leniently [I would have given him AT LEAST three years in prison]), but I am NOT going to condemn the use of EXTREME interrogation techniques (YOU can call it “torture” if you like, but we could spend MONTHS debating what IS and what IS NOT torture [yet another thread]).
wardmd said:This is NOT a question of “the end justifies the means” – but I’m not going to go to the other extreme either, and say that the ONLY thing that can be done to these “detainees”, is to warehouse them until the end of hostilities (some would argue that THAT, too, is “torture”).
wardmd said:THIS case (and the aberration that was Abu-Ghraib) do NOT typify the actions of the United States Military (the average G.I.), any more than those who beheaded Nicholas Berg (and others) typify the majority of Muslims…
wardmd said:The battle in which we are not engaged is NOT a battle against ISLAM nor against Muslims nor against Iraqis nor Arabs (nor Persians), but is a battle against the RADICAL ISLAMIST (terrorists) who wish to drag civilization back to the 8th century, and rid the world of ALL “infidels” (including, or especially, America and/or Israel).
wardmd said:If, in order to save OUR way of life, that means cracking a few head (as opposed to cutting them off, as our enemies seem to have no objection to doing), then I say “crack away”…
wardmd said:And for you, CES, how many INNOCENT (non-military) people have to be killed before YOU stand up and declare EVIL to be EVIL? 1? 5? 10? 3,000? How many?
wardmd said:How many lives are YOU willing to wager on YOUR belief that if we just sing ONE MORE ROUND of “Kumbyah”, THEN they’ll let us live in peace…
wardmd said:No, snafu, it didn't "escalate", it
snafu said:Your so full of **** CES!
You would'nt slap around or pistol-whip somebody that new where your family was being held hostage. Oh or is that not torture? How about if this was your son? Gee Dad thanks.
You criticizes our laws and the way we handle things and yet you say it’s OK to cane, stone and cut hands off because it’s their law?
Your ****ed up!
And do you think for one second that the majority of Iraqi’s or Muslims want Shari law? The ones that have no free thought do. But then that’s the most of them as they are oppressed! Give them freedom and democracy and I’ll bet my last dollar they don’t go back to that ancient barbaric law.
I don’t give a **** about his last ****ing breath!!!
I wonder what her last breath was like? Hmmmm........
Her crime you might ask? being a Christian!!!!!!!
As guilty as you think you were in Kosovo and Somalia you were doing the right thing.
Yes, those images are terrible. Great job on the shock value CES. Do you know where they were taken? When they were taken? The stories behind them? Do you know for sure that this was cause by our men? You should remember the insurgents love their bombs. And, the shooting is usually done by both sides. Not to mention the on again, well, on again wars all over the Middle East. I know you are not suggesting that they were better off back when those even suspected of badmouthing Sadam were dragged off in the middle of the night to be tortured (put through a shredder feet first). Or have their wives and daughters (of any age) raped in front of them. Yeah, I bet they are horrified that that is over. The majority of Iraqis are glad we are there. Many of the insurgents are now from other countries.Cogito Ergo Sum said:Oh yeah, I'm sure the Iraqi's LOVE us. Afterall, we're there to help them.
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View attachment 772
This is not how warriors behave but how thugs operate.
ToriAllen said:...The majority of Iraqis are glad we are there. Many of the insurgents are now from other countries.
I believe I already said it was unacceptable to kill innocent civilians, yet somehow you keep bringing us back around to that.Cogito Ergo Sum said:Do you ever stop to take a moment and look at it from the Arab point of view?
I highly recommend
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
Contrary to propaganda presented by Fox News, Rumsfeld and the like, Al Jazerra is an EXCELLENT source of news.
snafu said:I got a **** load of pictures of hypocrisy! Road side bombs that killed innocent people. Bombs that killed children as we hand out candy.
What the **** dose free speech have anything to do with the topic other than Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush's free speech. His was forfeited when he took up arms against us.
This girl’s death has everything to do with it! These are the people you say love the Shria law!
pseudo-patriotic chest thumping? That’s just plain cute! Thank you. I’ll take that as a complement. Somebody has to be man (and women) enough to do it!
I am using a “what if” scenario because it’s the smart thing to do. What the ****? You don’t think ahead? I still say bullshit. You would be beating heads together to get your kids back. Likewise Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr. wanted to save lives.
I can respect there ****ed up laws too. But when you talk about human rights then NO! If you talk about oppression then NO!
You don’t know you’re a slave until somebody tells you can be free!
Your soooo right that not everybody feels oppressed as you say they aren’t. Lets see Saddam wasn’t. I’m sure his sons were just fine too. Everybody on the top of the pecking order thought everything was just peachy king!
No you said you “LIES LIES LIES...all of it US Government LIES. I saw the same **** in Kosovo and Somalia. Same exact ****”.
This is were your heads at right now! You feel guilty you were lied and deceived. You were not!
Yes we stuck our noses in Veitnam. They they had their Lt Calley’s. Think back then. We were in a struggle with communisim. We tosed Vietgong out hellocopters to get info. So what?
**** it your right I'll just drop my draws and say **** me now! My country sucks! I guess America is a shithole. Lets just adopt Shari law and maybe they'll go away. What do you think CES?
ToriAllen said:...I'm sorry if I am still a little critical of news coming out of countries that will cut your tongue out for undermining the government or ruling party...
snafu said:And yes I think we can all agree that killing innocent people is wrong. Isn't that one of the reasons we're there now? Wasn't the girl on the table innoncent?
Well, which is it? Either there areCogito Ergo Sum said:Nope, just the freakish stupid ones. That's all.
Stop. Your mixing stuff that has nothing to do with each other.