HAMAS Legalizes the Crucifixion of Christians and other Enemies and Israel to invade
- Thread starter Acezorz
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HaziLPTonz
New member
yep its sad and quite CHILDISH on BOTH parts
while we ask why is this happening, why are they so big headed and one tracked, you can't help but feel a little resigned to the fact that this is one conflict which won't go away in the next 50-100 years
because really, even after peace efforts and world condemnation, there is still alot of blood shed and stupid acts of provocation like the crusifixtion of christians by hamas or the bombing of innocent people by the israelis
the only thing that i feel that can resolve this isnt by peace talks, its by letting them sook it out for abit longer til they realise that its pointless, yes i realise what this means-more deaths, but what more can be done when there are 2 hot-headed/pig headed nations who can't see past their own justifications and prejudices? they need to come to their OWN realisation that this is pointless, they need to hurt each other and themselves so much that until both sides can see the pain caused and perhaps change. There needs to be something drastic to change things, letting this crawl on slowly does noone any good, and it needs to happen to BOTH sides for them to see change.
the other part, other than their acts of attrocities catching up to either of them, is perhaps waiting a few decades, again by letting them sulk it out for abit longer, we need a generational change where new governments/spokesman are brought up to bring back peace talks, while we still have residues of prior hatreds seeped into the currrent governments, there is NO chance of peace
while i know that noone would condone this post, seeing as lives are being taken by the minute as the conflict continues, i cant help but think that this isnt something that "talking" will get rid of, to me theyre like 2 selfish children who need to fight it out til theyre tired of fighting and have MATURED to stop fighting
while we ask why is this happening, why are they so big headed and one tracked, you can't help but feel a little resigned to the fact that this is one conflict which won't go away in the next 50-100 years
because really, even after peace efforts and world condemnation, there is still alot of blood shed and stupid acts of provocation like the crusifixtion of christians by hamas or the bombing of innocent people by the israelis
the only thing that i feel that can resolve this isnt by peace talks, its by letting them sook it out for abit longer til they realise that its pointless, yes i realise what this means-more deaths, but what more can be done when there are 2 hot-headed/pig headed nations who can't see past their own justifications and prejudices? they need to come to their OWN realisation that this is pointless, they need to hurt each other and themselves so much that until both sides can see the pain caused and perhaps change. There needs to be something drastic to change things, letting this crawl on slowly does noone any good, and it needs to happen to BOTH sides for them to see change.
the other part, other than their acts of attrocities catching up to either of them, is perhaps waiting a few decades, again by letting them sulk it out for abit longer, we need a generational change where new governments/spokesman are brought up to bring back peace talks, while we still have residues of prior hatreds seeped into the currrent governments, there is NO chance of peace
while i know that noone would condone this post, seeing as lives are being taken by the minute as the conflict continues, i cant help but think that this isnt something that "talking" will get rid of, to me theyre like 2 selfish children who need to fight it out til theyre tired of fighting and have MATURED to stop fighting
GraDoN
New member
isreal has been constantly under attack since they formed as an official country. I feel for them, its been non stop war with the muslim countries around them, and its more a religious war than anything else since the Jews are Gods people and the land they are on is consuidered holy by both Christains and muslims. So mark my words, the fighting will never stop there.
Friðbjörn
New member
only reason US and Europe were so eager to even form a Jewish state was for the US to have a proxy/ally in that Middle Eastern zone and for the Europeans because they hate Jews and wanted them out.
but yeah. no one ever mentions that Hamas also provides humanitarian aid to the imprisoned Palestinians
as far as terrorism goes its never a lawful or ethical thing to do but you can kinda get their point as the Israelis are imprisoning unlawfully over a million Palestinians in a land they themselves had lived on before Israel and Western countries decided to displace them and make up a whole new country where innocent people had lived and now had to go...bullshit.
I realize the Jews originally lived there but come on...the Palestinians didnt drive them out in bible times and they were just living there
but yeah. no one ever mentions that Hamas also provides humanitarian aid to the imprisoned Palestinians
as far as terrorism goes its never a lawful or ethical thing to do but you can kinda get their point as the Israelis are imprisoning unlawfully over a million Palestinians in a land they themselves had lived on before Israel and Western countries decided to displace them and make up a whole new country where innocent people had lived and now had to go...bullshit.
I realize the Jews originally lived there but come on...the Palestinians didnt drive them out in bible times and they were just living there
Sygy
New member
I agree with you completely fribs.
Yes i can see why others may view hamas as being less than pallitable but we must remember that they were voted in and hold a large seat majority so it just annoys me when people attempt to claim that they are a terrorist organisation (not that anyone was doing so here, im talking about people i come across in debates). But hamas have done SO much good in Gaza and the west bank,the
reconstruction of infrastructure(schools and hospitals) and have helped Palestinians soo much. this cannot be ignored.
as for Isreal, hamas stopped the informal ceasefire as nothing but basic humanitarian aid had been allowed in Gaza, YES HAMAS shuldnt have fired first but isreal wasnt allowing in more than basic humantarian that hamas was providing some of which with the help of the UN. Isreal must stop its actions if she really wishes to be accepted into the Middle east, these actions continue to make Isreal a segregated pariah state especially with Syria and Iran sidin with Hamas.
unfortunatly, to paraphrase the man from the news, the only was Isreal would stop is if Rice (america) called for a seize fire..hahaha
Sygy
New member
i wasnt cannonising them, saints neither sides are. i was stating that i feel they constantly get unfairly slated in the media and are the subject of much fabrication.
for the sake of what is left of middle eastern relations lets hope that Isreal dont kick hamas' arses as it will further ostraise them as they are already are a pariah nation. lastly, repeating myself, we cannt ignore that yes their is a humanitarian crisis there as isreal hasnt stopped the blockade meaning that only basic supplies are getting through no matter what that lebenowicz (i that thats her name) said.
and ace, where did u get ur news article from, out of interest.
GraDoN
New member
agreed, its easy to fire rockets between civilians and then blame isreal for killing them. Isreal is simply defending their land. And sygy this land dispute goes on longer than US wanting allies in the middle east. During the time of Jesus they stayed there, thats before muslims did. i think. -.-
Clogz
Active Members
Step 1: Fire rockets into Israel
Step 2: Try not to die in the retaliation airstrikes
Step 3: ??? (Die anyways.)
Step 4: Virgins!
Iran and Hamas have pretty much declared jihad. A jihad is a holy war...which means anyone killed fighting the enemy INSTANTLY goes to heaven. Its a free pass! So now, we've got Hamas willing to sacrifice all the civilians who look to them for safety (they are the ruling party in thier government) just so they can die and go to heaven.
I understand that they believe this is their ***'s will, but if you have to kill people to please your *** than frankly he isn't worth being called ***.
Step 2: Try not to die in the retaliation airstrikes
Step 3: ??? (Die anyways.)
Step 4: Virgins!
Iran and Hamas have pretty much declared jihad. A jihad is a holy war...which means anyone killed fighting the enemy INSTANTLY goes to heaven. Its a free pass! So now, we've got Hamas willing to sacrifice all the civilians who look to them for safety (they are the ruling party in thier government) just so they can die and go to heaven.
I understand that they believe this is their ***'s will, but if you have to kill people to please your *** than frankly he isn't worth being called ***.
HaziLPTonz
New member
a jihad is no easy feat, its religion, religion is bigger than any object we can carry, its their way of living, and especially this strip, the gaza strip, is of MAMMOTH significance, thats why theres fighting, thats why theres ALWAYS been fighting, thats why there will be always still be fighting
of course, the Kuran has been interpreted wrong for these idiot's own doing, and like i said, religion is mammoth, if *** wants it, who are they to say no? they cant just change religion, its how they were raised, theyre raised strictly, they know NO other way but their own
to be honest, like i said, there is NO way we can reason with them, these are 2 selfish children that need to slug it out til theyre tired and had enough, this goes back further like Gradon said, and what theyre fighting for it something greater than a piece of land, they fight for their gods and they fight for their way of life, is it any different to the majority of American/Australian/British forces fighting over in Iraq?
of course, the Kuran has been interpreted wrong for these idiot's own doing, and like i said, religion is mammoth, if *** wants it, who are they to say no? they cant just change religion, its how they were raised, theyre raised strictly, they know NO other way but their own
to be honest, like i said, there is NO way we can reason with them, these are 2 selfish children that need to slug it out til theyre tired and had enough, this goes back further like Gradon said, and what theyre fighting for it something greater than a piece of land, they fight for their gods and they fight for their way of life, is it any different to the majority of American/Australian/British forces fighting over in Iraq?
ugur90
New member
first of all I think both sides are to blame in this as well as the US..originally i think the creation of israel in palestinian land was a huge mistake and the UN and UK really messed up in maintaining peace there and as we all know so many wars commenced. I do not think the problem can be solved by either destroying Israel or destroying the Palestinians there is way more innocent on both sides then there are guilty and coexistence is the only way for peace and I think for this a palestinian state must also be created alongside and Isreali one
for Hamas and PLO it is really stupid to keep fighting back the Isrealis. History shows that still acting against violence with non-violence is so effective in politics, examples are in our face Gandhi, Mandela, Marthin Luther King. If they used peaceful ways to try to solve their problem it wud be so much more effective
Isreal has also killed many civilians in its war to fight off Hamas. I think it would be more effective if it used Special Ops units and cooperated more with the Palestinian government. All the pictures of Israeli acts are worsening their reputation in the world and honestly if Israel is trying to justify their acts because they were put through the Holocaust then thats almost as evil as what Hitler did.
Finally the US has got to support its unconditional support for Israel if it has to solve the problem. It doesn't have to acknowledge that Palestine is right but because of the Isreal Lobby and the Neocons every view of Isreal is seen the right one and no matter what the US backs Israel. This is the cause for many of the insurgencies and terror acts that has occured against America and if America solved this problem between Isreal and Palestine peacefully I think they will restore a lot of their reputation and reduce terrorism in the world. But I don't think this will happen honestly because there is way too much unconditional backing of Israel in America and the US Government
for Hamas and PLO it is really stupid to keep fighting back the Isrealis. History shows that still acting against violence with non-violence is so effective in politics, examples are in our face Gandhi, Mandela, Marthin Luther King. If they used peaceful ways to try to solve their problem it wud be so much more effective
Isreal has also killed many civilians in its war to fight off Hamas. I think it would be more effective if it used Special Ops units and cooperated more with the Palestinian government. All the pictures of Israeli acts are worsening their reputation in the world and honestly if Israel is trying to justify their acts because they were put through the Holocaust then thats almost as evil as what Hitler did.
Finally the US has got to support its unconditional support for Israel if it has to solve the problem. It doesn't have to acknowledge that Palestine is right but because of the Isreal Lobby and the Neocons every view of Isreal is seen the right one and no matter what the US backs Israel. This is the cause for many of the insurgencies and terror acts that has occured against America and if America solved this problem between Isreal and Palestine peacefully I think they will restore a lot of their reputation and reduce terrorism in the world. But I don't think this will happen honestly because there is way too much unconditional backing of Israel in America and the US Government
Hahninator
New member
I think Obama will try to lean off the Israeli support a bit.
I support Israel in this though. An eye for an eye is what I believe in, and they are trying to eliminate the problem. Go for it. I'd rather them eradicate the entire problem through absolute excessive insane force than have it pop back up again.
For the civilians and children - get out while you can.
I support Israel in this though. An eye for an eye is what I believe in, and they are trying to eliminate the problem. Go for it. I'd rather them eradicate the entire problem through absolute excessive insane force than have it pop back up again.
For the civilians and children - get out while you can.
HaziLPTonz
New member
^ i hafta agree
as much as violence generally isnt the answer, and especially with news filtering through that a stray israeli missile hit a UN school, i think for once we need to see this through to an ending, at least at an attempt to get rid of all the problems rather than letting things dawdle
as much as violence generally isnt the answer, and especially with news filtering through that a stray israeli missile hit a UN school, i think for once we need to see this through to an ending, at least at an attempt to get rid of all the problems rather than letting things dawdle
Sygy
New member
the palestinians are an ethnic group centralised to that area whoes grandparents and great grand parents were born and raised there. There is nothing sadder when watching the media coverage than seeing a young palestinian boy throwing a rock at an isreali tank because you know that is is going to be the next generation who are going to feel angry and disenchanted with the situation.
yes but this land dispute really kicked off when Palestine was a bristish mandate and the british and american imperalist powers decided to create isreal after guilt for the holocaust.
Hamas had the right to end the cease fire (eventhough there is evidence that isreal had broken it before had..but alas our media owned by murdoch as failed to report on this) as little aid was entering Gaza as the intial idea for the cease fire was that more aid was going to enter gaza..lo and behold it did not.
The level of force used by isreal is unjustifiable. can i just point out that we complained about the Russians using unnessecary force agaisnt Georgia yet we are not complaining when Isreal uses a ridiculous amount of force on Gaza. it is sickening that Isreal bombed a UN school killing children and cluster bombing? claiming that they have proof that Hamas leaders were hiding there, if they were or if they were not. Why bomb a place that is part of an independent neutral institution?
over the last decades the palestinians have seen themselves being pushed out of their homeland and penned off by blockades, do they not have the right to defend what was previously their land? In all in all, this situation has just shown the failure of international relations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
i know that most people think that the eye for an eye mentality is just a description of human nature, and too a certian extent that is correct. however, in the end i personally think that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
and it unfortunate that problems cant be worked thorugh diplomatically
ugur90
New member
If the eye for an eye solution was the right one then this problem would have been solved ages ago. I don't really understand how Israel plans to end Hamas with this invasion. They just agreed to a conditional ceasefire I think. Thus this invasion was kind of pointless and just killed a lot of civilians for no reason. I think 1)The hypocricy of the west and the US is outrageous and they have to cut their 1 sided bias for Israel to solve the problem 2) that a 2 state solution is the right one
Friðbjörn
New member
fff so much ignorance in this thread...look at the **** bigger picture
its in palestine, not israel that millions are trapped in refugee camps suffering. its israel, not palestine that planned ending the truce with airstrikes six months ago
fortunately more and more people worldwide are realizing that israel is basically a terrorist state executing massive human rights violations. the legality of the israeli state is an issue of dispute, or should be, if international mainstream politics had any sense in them. and then everybody's surprised that palestinians sometimes resort to home made missile strikes or other forms of terrorism...
when you entrap 1,5 million people without a lot of what we westerners call basic needs, **** is going to happen...
and ironically the Israelis have locked themselves in the biggest de facto ghetto in history
its in palestine, not israel that millions are trapped in refugee camps suffering. its israel, not palestine that planned ending the truce with airstrikes six months ago
fortunately more and more people worldwide are realizing that israel is basically a terrorist state executing massive human rights violations. the legality of the israeli state is an issue of dispute, or should be, if international mainstream politics had any sense in them. and then everybody's surprised that palestinians sometimes resort to home made missile strikes or other forms of terrorism...
when you entrap 1,5 million people without a lot of what we westerners call basic needs, **** is going to happen...
and ironically the Israelis have locked themselves in the biggest de facto ghetto in history
HaziLPTonz
New member
im not realising that israel is a terrorist state....
where did that even come from? if you had said HAMAS(while recognised as government in charge) is seen as a terrorist organisation, then thats probably more the misconception people get, not to mention the FBI have named them as 1 of a few cells running that "threaten america"
the problem is that its "he said, she said", on one hand HAMAS claims Israel broke the treaty while Israel is saying HAMAS broke it, go figure huh? it personal bias from here, but the fact is BOTH sides are to blame, rocket attacks(home made or not) by hamas, the mobilisation of the israeli army into the borders, theyre both wrong, theyve BOTH hit civillian targets
we can think that just because Israel mobilise a massive army doesnt mean theyre the bullies in the conflict, its like the small bratty kid in the paddock who thinks he can throw rocks at the biggest kid in the playground thinking he'll get away with it then cries when he gets pounded
where did that even come from? if you had said HAMAS(while recognised as government in charge) is seen as a terrorist organisation, then thats probably more the misconception people get, not to mention the FBI have named them as 1 of a few cells running that "threaten america"
the problem is that its "he said, she said", on one hand HAMAS claims Israel broke the treaty while Israel is saying HAMAS broke it, go figure huh? it personal bias from here, but the fact is BOTH sides are to blame, rocket attacks(home made or not) by hamas, the mobilisation of the israeli army into the borders, theyre both wrong, theyve BOTH hit civillian targets
we can think that just because Israel mobilise a massive army doesnt mean theyre the bullies in the conflict, its like the small bratty kid in the paddock who thinks he can throw rocks at the biggest kid in the playground thinking he'll get away with it then cries when he gets pounded