He broke the law. He deserves to be in jail?

[phreakwars]

http://www.ketv.com/...952/detail.html


Man Jailed After Using Mace On Protesters

OMAHA, Neb. -- A Vietnam veteran is in the Douglas County Corrections Center after being accused of spraying Nace at protesters outside the Omaha funeral of a fallen Marine.George Vogel, 62, was arrested for 17 counts of assault Saturday after trying to disrupt the protesters from the Westboro Baptist Church.The incident happened outside the funeral for Sgt. Michael Bock, who was killed in action in Afghanistan on Aug. 13.Investigators said Vogel, a retired Marine, got in his pickup and drove by the protesters at 72nd and Cass streets and sprayed the Mace into a crowd of demonstrators and counter-demonstrators.

More at url

I was wondering when someone was gonna step up to these bastards. I would have shot one with a .22 to the knee cap.
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[timesjoke]

And yet you defend the right to build a terrorist victory monument in New York at ground zero?


Free speach and all that Bender?


I have to admit, this is the one wild card I never saw comming with the progressives/liberals. Usually you guys are all for attacking people who oppress women and you certainly hate religion in almost all ways but even the ACLU refuses to file lawsuits against Muslims who pray in schools, it seems the need to be politically correct has over ridden every other agenda you guys have.


In this case you guys have hitched your wagon to the Muslims and no matter how crazy they act you will never be able to bring yourselves to say anything against them or even ask them to exert more pressure on their more 'energetic' members. Refusing to speak against Muslim prayer in school has to be the biggest surprise to me though, I guess only Christian prayer is the end of all society these days, lol.

 

[jokersarewild]

And yet you defend the right to build a terrorist victory monument in New York at ground zero?


Free speach and all that Bender?


I have to admit, this is the one wild card I never saw comming with the progressives/liberals. Usually you guys are all for attacking people who oppress women and you certainly hate religion in almost all ways but even the ACLU refuses to file lawsuits against Muslims who pray in schools, it seems the need to be politically correct has over ridden every other agenda you guys have.


In this case you guys have hitched your wagon to the Muslims and no matter how crazy they act you will never be able to bring yourselves to say anything against them or even ask them to exert more pressure on their more 'energetic' members. Refusing to speak against Muslim prayer in school has to be the biggest surprise to me though, I guess only Christian prayer is the end of all society these days, lol.

Technically, they have the right to say what they want. But see, if you go into a crowd at a funeral for a soldier, and start proclaiming that God wanted him to die because queers exist, and that America asked for him to die, then I'd expect to get beaten to a pulp. That's just how it is.

Now, I respect their right to speak, even about their opinions. But when you're deliberately going to people's funerals to tell them the dead guy deserved it, you're going to have to take responsibility for the fact that they won't appreciate it. And it could've been far worse than mace. Now what I'd like to see is for the d!ckheads to be shot at with bean-bag guns and water hoses (like real protesters). Not harming them a whole lot, and hey, they get to accept personal responsibility for being horrible people. With a beanbag...to the face.

 

[ImWithStupid]

And yet you defend the right to build a terrorist victory monument in New York at ground zero?


Free speach and all that Bender?


I have to admit, this is the one wild card I never saw comming with the progressives/liberals. Usually you guys are all for attacking people who oppress women and you certainly hate religion in almost all ways but even the ACLU refuses to file lawsuits against Muslims who pray in schools, it seems the need to be politically correct has over ridden every other agenda you guys have.


In this case you guys have hitched your wagon to the Muslims and no matter how crazy they act you will never be able to bring yourselves to say anything against them or even ask them to exert more pressure on their more 'energetic' members. Refusing to speak against Muslim prayer in school has to be the biggest surprise to me though, I guess only Christian prayer is the end of all society these days, lol.

Technically, they have the right to say what they want. But see, if you go into a crowd at a funeral for a soldier, and start proclaiming that God wanted him to die because queers exist, and that America asked for him to die, then I'd expect to get beaten to a pulp. That's just how it is.

Now, I respect their right to speak, even about their opinions. But when you're deliberately going to people's funerals to tell them the dead guy deserved it, you're going to have to take responsibility for the fact that they won't appreciate it. And it could've been far worse than mace. Now what I'd like to see is for the d!ckheads to be shot at with bean-bag guns and water hoses (like real protesters). Not harming them a whole lot, and hey, they get to accept personal responsibility for being horrible people. With a beanbag...to the face.

By your logic the people at the ground zero mosque should expect to get beaten to a pulp because someone doesn't like what they're doing, even though they "technically" have the right to do it?

 

[ImWithStupid]

 

[Chi]

And yet you defend the right to build a terrorist victory monument in New York at ground zero?


Free speach and all that Bender?


I have to admit, this is the one wild card I never saw comming with the progressives/liberals. Usually you guys are all for attacking people who oppress women and you certainly hate religion in almost all ways but even the ACLU refuses to file lawsuits against Muslims who pray in schools, it seems the need to be politically correct has over ridden every other agenda you guys have.


In this case you guys have hitched your wagon to the Muslims and no matter how crazy they act you will never be able to bring yourselves to say anything against them or even ask them to exert more pressure on their more 'energetic' members. Refusing to speak against Muslim prayer in school has to be the biggest surprise to me though, I guess only Christian prayer is the end of all society these days, lol.

Technically, they have the right to say what they want. But see, if you go into a crowd at a funeral for a soldier, and start proclaiming that God wanted him to die because queers exist, and that America asked for him to die, then I'd expect to get beaten to a pulp. That's just how it is.

Now, I respect their right to speak, even about their opinions. But when you're deliberately going to people's funerals to tell them the dead guy deserved it, you're going to have to take responsibility for the fact that they won't appreciate it. And it could've been far worse than mace. Now what I'd like to see is for the d!ckheads to be shot at with bean-bag guns and water hoses (like real protesters). Not harming them a whole lot, and hey, they get to accept personal responsibility for being horrible people. With a beanbag...to the face.

Beanbag to the face, I like that.... When idiots like these go instigate at funerals there should be a free pass to whip their ass. It should fall somewhere along the lines of justification like self defense and crime of passion type cases.

 

[jokersarewild]

And yet you defend the right to build a terrorist victory monument in New York at ground zero?


Free speach and all that Bender?


I have to admit, this is the one wild card I never saw comming with the progressives/liberals. Usually you guys are all for attacking people who oppress women and you certainly hate religion in almost all ways but even the ACLU refuses to file lawsuits against Muslims who pray in schools, it seems the need to be politically correct has over ridden every other agenda you guys have.


In this case you guys have hitched your wagon to the Muslims and no matter how crazy they act you will never be able to bring yourselves to say anything against them or even ask them to exert more pressure on their more 'energetic' members. Refusing to speak against Muslim prayer in school has to be the biggest surprise to me though, I guess only Christian prayer is the end of all society these days, lol.

Technically, they have the right to say what they want. But see, if you go into a crowd at a funeral for a soldier, and start proclaiming that God wanted him to die because queers exist, and that America asked for him to die, then I'd expect to get beaten to a pulp. That's just how it is.

Now, I respect their right to speak, even about their opinions. But when you're deliberately going to people's funerals to tell them the dead guy deserved it, you're going to have to take responsibility for the fact that they won't appreciate it. And it could've been far worse than mace. Now what I'd like to see is for the d!ckheads to be shot at with bean-bag guns and water hoses (like real protesters). Not harming them a whole lot, and hey, they get to accept personal responsibility for being horrible people. With a beanbag...to the face.

By your logic the people at the ground zero mosque should expect to get beaten to a pulp because someone doesn't like what they're doing, even though they "technically" have the right to do it?

Because building a Community Center is the same as hate speech, right? I'd get your pencil sharpened, IWS...it's really bad at drawing connections.

And also, I never said they expressly had the right to react physically. I just said it should be expected. But picketing a funeral is, again, just like building a community center 2 blocks north of Ground Zero.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Because building a Community Center is the same as hate speech, right? I'd get your pencil sharpened, IWS...it's really bad at drawing connections.

And also, I never said they expressly had the right to react physically. I just said it should be expected. But picketing a funeral is, again, just like building a community center 2 blocks north of Ground Zero.

There is no First Amendment right protecting building a community center. There is one protecting unsavory speech.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Because building a Community Center is the same as hate speech, right? I'd get your pencil sharpened, IWS...it's really bad at drawing connections.

And also, I never said they expressly had the right to react physically. I just said it should be expected. But picketing a funeral is, again, just like building a community center 2 blocks north of Ground Zero.

They are one and the same. You think you should be able to be violent toward someone because you don't like what they say or are offended, but another group is out of line when they speak up against building a Mosque near Ground Zero because the are offended by it there.

 

[jokersarewild]

Because building a Community Center is the same as hate speech, right? I'd get your pencil sharpened, IWS...it's really bad at drawing connections.

And also, I never said they expressly had the right to react physically. I just said it should be expected. But picketing a funeral is, again, just like building a community center 2 blocks north of Ground Zero.

There is no First Amendment right protecting building a community center. There is one protecting unsavory speech.

Both are actions that some people don't want happening. If people had been told "there will be a community center there", then it wouldn't be an issue, and the debate wouldn't be happening. Nobody would care. So then who would question their rights? Nobody. It would be a moot point. It's a media-created issue.

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/hate-speech-campus

^ An interesting article on the free speech thing.

Now, The WBC has the right to do what they're doing. It's protected under the First Amendment. I cannot deny that, nor will I try. I believe that, even though they're assholes, bigots, and every other foul name you could call a group of people, they are American citizens, and have that right.

I'm just saying the guy spraying them with mace isn't surprising. In the least. It's not legal, and jail is appropriate, but it's really about right and wrong. What he did was wrong. What they do on a regular basis is wrong. But two wrongs don't make a right

 

[jokersarewild]

Because building a Community Center is the same as hate speech, right? I'd get your pencil sharpened, IWS...it's really bad at drawing connections.

And also, I never said they expressly had the right to react physically. I just said it should be expected. But picketing a funeral is, again, just like building a community center 2 blocks north of Ground Zero.

They are one and the same. You think you should be able to be violent toward someone because you don't like what they say or are offended, but another group is out of line when they speak up against building a Mosque near Ground Zero because the are offended by it there.

I never said that they "should be able to be violent". I never ONCE said that. I said that it's to be expected in these cases, where what you're doing deeply offends people. Some people will say "Well, I don't care about the law, that guy is a douche!" and go beat the hell out of them. That's illegal. But, again, expected. And yes, I do believe they should go to jail for it. I just don't want them to because I hate the WBC, but that's an opinion

 

[ImWithStupid]

That's one hell of a big non-Mosque they are talking about building.

While Park51's website claims the "final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined," Sharif El-Gamal, head of Soho Properties, Inc., and developer, of the “Ground Zero mosque,” advertises the project on a Muslim website updated as recently as June 5, 2010, in expansive terms different from those the GZM team has lately addressed to the broader public. Al-Gamal’s group declares, “We are trying to establish a full fledged Islamic Center in the lower Manhattan, only 2 blocks from World Trade Center, New York City, NY. It is a neat and clean facility and can accomodate [sic] 1,000 people to pray in Jamat [i.e. collectively] at one time.” Soho Properties notes on the Muslim site www.islamicfinder.org, which inventories mosques open around the country, that a mosque known as “The House” (Musallah – without Rauf’s “Cordoba” identification) already provides morning and evening prayer services, as well as Friday collective prayer and a weekly “networking event,” at 51 Park Place.

Thus Al-Gamal disclosed that, contrary to what Frank Rich and friends say, the real intent of the project was that for which it was questioned: an ambitious mosque, capable of drawing a large crowd of believers, close to the former World Trade Center.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ground-zero-mosque-developer-mosque-could-accommodate-1000

 

[jokersarewild]

That's one hell of a big non-Mosque they are talking about building.

While Park51's website claims the "final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined," Sharif El-Gamal, head of Soho Properties, Inc., and developer, of the “Ground Zero mosque,” advertises the project on a Muslim website updated as recently as June 5, 2010, in expansive terms different from those the GZM team has lately addressed to the broader public. Al-Gamal’s group declares, “We are trying to establish a full fledged Islamic Center in the lower Manhattan, only 2 blocks from World Trade Center, New York City, NY. It is a neat and clean facility and can accomodate [sic] 1,000 people to pray in Jamat [i.e. collectively] at one time.” Soho Properties notes on the Muslim site www.islamicfinder.org, which inventories mosques open around the country, that a mosque known as “The House” (Musallah – without Rauf’s “Cordoba” identification) already provides morning and evening prayer services, as well as Friday collective prayer and a weekly “networking event,” at 51 Park Place.

Thus Al-Gamal disclosed that, contrary to what Frank Rich and friends say, the real intent of the project was that for which it was questioned: an ambitious mosque, capable of drawing a large crowd of believers, close to the former World Trade Center.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ground-zero-mosque-developer-mosque-could-accommodate-1000

Holy sh!t! They pray in a place where there's a house of prayer? Also, Al-Gamal isn't the Imam. He can say what he wants about it, and he can comment on the design, yadda yadda. But when it's all said and done, the Imam is the one that goes "Ok, well, this is a mosque" or "this is a community center with a prayer room".

Oh, and I have websites too:

Gamal, who intends to install a swimming pool, cooking school, meeting and Islamic prayer room at the 100-million-dollar, 13-story glass and metal building, said he would like it to be "universally known as a hub of culture, a hub of coexistence, a hub of bringing people together."

Despite the furor, Gamal said he is "100 percent" intent on going ahead with building the center.

"It matched the needs of my community. It matched the needs of my Muslim brothers and sisters, my Christian brothers and sisters, my Jewish brothers and sisters who live and work in lower Manhattan," said Gamal, a New Yorker born to a Polish Catholic mother and an Egyptian father.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hvzLWf7C3Qs0dQc7u5gXxfTrBjfA

Oh, hey, cultural hub. For the community. Almost like a center of some sort. Weird.

 

[timesjoke]

Because building a Community Center is the same as hate speech, right? I'd get your pencil sharpened, IWS...it's really bad at drawing connections.

And also, I never said they expressly had the right to react physically. I just said it should be expected. But picketing a funeral is, again, just like building a community center 2 blocks north of Ground Zero.

They are one and the same. You think you should be able to be violent toward someone because you don't like what they say or are offended, but another group is out of line when they speak up against building a Mosque near Ground Zero because the are offended by it there.

Well said IWS, and you busted his double standard wide open.

 

[phreakwars]

So, like Muslim's, just PRAYING is just as offensive as someone ridiculing your loved ones at their funeral?

What, do people expect that Muslim's will be planning our demise just blocks from a site that was attacked by Muslims?

Only if they are paranoid.

Are people being attacked by domestic terrorists at funerals? I'd say yes, and it deserves retaliation. free speech is free speech, but why can't words be weapons?

SURELY, you can't use the EXCUSE of Muslims praying (probably for peace) as being equal to being ridiculed at a funeral.

What's this double standard BS?
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[phreakwars]

What I don't get, is why this topic took a political spin in the first place.

Come on, just admit it, your happy someone finally stood up to their bullshit.
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[ImWithStupid]

What I don't get, is why this topic took a political spin in the first place.

Come on, just admit it, your happy someone finally stood up to their bullshit.
.
.

Did he?

George Vogel drove his Ford pickup truck toward a group of people he thought were the infamous Westboro Baptist protesters.

The 62-year-old Omahan's trigger finger rested on a can of potent pepper spray that can cause temporary blindness and vomiting. His grandson rode in the passenger seat.

But what Vogel saw as he leaned out the driver's side window and twice sprayed the crowd outside the Saturday funeral of Marine Staff Sgt. Michael Bock is a 40-year-old memory he can't shake, his wife says.

In the memory, Vogel is himself a young Marine. He has just climbed off the ship that has brought him back to the United States from a brutal tour of duty in Vietnam. And he encounters a group of anti-war protesters, young adults his own age, waving signs and screaming at him.

“He kept saying, ‘All I could think of was when I got off the boat,'” Marlene Vogel said Monday of the lone phone conversation she has had with her husband since he was jailed Saturday on suspicion of 16 counts of misdemeanor assault.

The charges stem from the 16 people — none of whom are believed to be Westboro Baptist members — who were allegedly harmed by Vogel's bear repellent, a Mace-like chemical that burned their eyes, turned their stomachs and sent several to the hospital.

http://www.omaha.com...S97/708319913/0


First. I don't like what the WBC people are doing. I'm offended by it but they have the right to do so. The First Amendment isn't there to protect kind or polite speech.


So, let's say your wife is murdered in your home by a bunch of whacked out PeTA people because your wife wears leather shoes.

A few years later PeTA buys the property next to where you live (assuming no zoning violations) and intends to build an "information center" to share with the community all the good their organization does, on the property right by where PeTA people slaughtered your wife, because of their radical PeTA beliefs.

Seeing how you don't have any reason to be offended by this, at what point do you bring over the basket with "welcome to the neighborhood" baked goods?

 

[jokersarewild]

What I don't get, is why this topic took a political spin in the first place.

Come on, just admit it, your happy someone finally stood up to their bullshit.
.
.

Did he?

George Vogel drove his Ford pickup truck toward a group of people he thought were the infamous Westboro Baptist protesters.

The 62-year-old Omahan's trigger finger rested on a can of potent pepper spray that can cause temporary blindness and vomiting. His grandson rode in the passenger seat.

But what Vogel saw as he leaned out the driver's side window and twice sprayed the crowd outside the Saturday funeral of Marine Staff Sgt. Michael Bock is a 40-year-old memory he can't shake, his wife says.

In the memory, Vogel is himself a young Marine. He has just climbed off the ship that has brought him back to the United States from a brutal tour of duty in Vietnam. And he encounters a group of anti-war protesters, young adults his own age, waving signs and screaming at him.

“He kept saying, ‘All I could think of was when I got off the boat,'” Marlene Vogel said Monday of the lone phone conversation she has had with her husband since he was jailed Saturday on suspicion of 16 counts of misdemeanor assault.

The charges stem from the 16 people — none of whom are believed to be Westboro Baptist members — who were allegedly harmed by Vogel's bear repellent, a Mace-like chemical that burned their eyes, turned their stomachs and sent several to the hospital.

http://www.omaha.com...S97/708319913/0


First. I don't like what the WBC people are doing. I'm offended by it but they have the right to do so. The First Amendment isn't there to protect kind or polite speech.


So, let's say your wife is murdered in your home by a bunch of whacked out PeTA people because your wife wears leather shoes.

A few years later PeTA buys the property next to where you live (assuming no zoning violations) and intends to build an "information center" to share with the community all the good their organization does, on the property right by where PeTA people slaughtered your wife, because of their radical PeTA beliefs.

Seeing how you don't have any reason to be offended by this, at what point do you bring over the basket with "welcome to the neighborhood" baked goods?

It's really amazing how many times I can argue your point (this specific one you keep making) into oblivion, and you still act like it's fact.

So that first PETA group are actually not really part of it, they're just nutcases who are using PETA to feel justified in killing your wife.

PETA comes out and says that person was wrong. Anybody who targets civilians is wrong. 9 years later, they build an information center two blocks away from your house, where you can't even see it. Are you offended?

 

[eddo]

PETA comes out and says that person was wrong.

That's key right there.

Where are the Leaders of Islam in saying that the actions of the extremists of their religion are wrong? Yeah, some came out after 9/11 but extremists are still terrorizing innocents all over the world. Where is the outcry? Where are the leaders who are brave enough to stand up and say this is wrong, and that it should stop- and willing to do something to make it stop?

Last year that abortion doctor Tiller was murdered by a Christian Extremist. Almost instantly Christian leaders all over the country and world spoke out publicly against his actions- declaring his actions not of God.

Where is this kind of response when a Muslim straps a bomb to his little brother and send him off to market?
Where is this kind of response when a Muslim straps explosives to his underwear and boards a plane?

it's non-existent, that's where it is.

 

[hugo]

PETA comes out and says that person was wrong.

That's key right there.

Where are the Leaders of Islam in saying that the actions of the extremists of their religion are wrong? Yeah, some came out after 9/11 but extremists are still terrorizing innocents all over the world. Where is the outcry? Where are the leaders who are brave enough to stand up and say this is wrong, and that it should stop- and willing to do something to make it stop?

Last year that abortion doctor Tiller was murdered by a Christian Extremist. Almost instantly Christian leaders all over the country and world spoke out publicly against his actions- declaring his actions not of God.

Where is this kind of response when a Muslim straps a bomb to his little brother and send him off to market?
Where is this kind of response when a Muslim straps explosives to his underwear and boards a plane?

it's non-existent, that's where it is.

I suggest googling "Muslims protest terroriam" and you will find many examples which never made the "if it bleeds it leads" media. Just like you do not see peaceful anti-abortion protests in the news. Moderate Muslims are dying across the globe in a fight against fundamentalist Islam. I don't think building this mosque helps them in that fight.