Liberals continue their denial of military successes in Iraq

[MioMyo]

Thanks for cluing me in on how to twist that nose ring of yours.

Thanks a lot!


"robw" <noddy093@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:076dnchH1cTmd9TanZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> So winning in Iraq does what?????
>
> You f cking ****. You ended over 3k lives in Iraq and terrorism won't be
> over??????
>
> You worthless f ckng ****.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:YPl2j.71115$YL5.11323@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>> So you view the war on terror as if it were an arcade game?
>>
>> Right?
>>
>>
>> The Honorable President George W. Bush told you otherwise and you
> preferred
>> to call him a liar!
>>
>>
>> "robw" <noddy093@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:Te6dnfKh85I6KdTanZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> > Why not?
>> > The US wins the "war" and terror goes away.
>> >
>> > Right?
>> >
>> > Isn't that what your asshole has told us?
>> >
>> >
>> > "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
>> > news:7Ih2j.1439$NY.590@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> >> Not yet you moron!
>> >>
>> >> Why don't we bring them home from Germany lib?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "robw" <noddy093@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:L7qdnQb3mrcSB9TanZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> >> > Great!
>> >> > So you can bring the Troops home and guarantee us no more terror
>> >> > attacks????
>> >> >
>> >> > You can do this?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news8I1j.22967$lD6.11645@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>> >> >> Yet reality proves them delusionally wrong. The only reason for
> their
>> >> >> denials is their hatred of Bush and the political gamble they have
>> >> > invested
>> >> >> in aligning themselves with the head-lopping terrorists.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Which is why I no longer hold back labeling them the traitors they
>> >> >> continually prove themselves to be!
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/22/AR2007112201568_pf.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BAGHDAD, Nov. 22 -- Iraqis are returning to their homeland by the
>> >> >> hundreds
>> >> >> each day, by bus, car and plane, encouraged by weeks of decreased
>> >> >> violence
>> >> >> and increased security, or compelled by visa and residency
>> >> >> restrictions
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> neighboring countries and the depletion of their savings.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Those returning make up only a tiny fraction of the 2.2 million
> Iraqis
>> >> >> who
>> >> >> have fled Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. But they
> represent
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> largest number of returnees since February 2006, when sectarian
>> > violence
>> >> >> began to rise dramatically, speeding the exodus from Iraq.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Many find a Baghdad they no longer recognize, a city altered by
> blast
>> >> > walls
>> >> >> and sectarian rifts. Under the improved security, Iraqis are
> gingerly
>> >> >> testing how far their new liberties allow them to go. But they are
>> >> >> also
>> >> >> facing many barriers, geographical and psychological, hardened by
>> >> >> violence
>> >> >> and mistrust.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Days after she returned from Syria, 23-year-old Melal al-Zubaidi
>> >> >> and
> a
>> >> >> friend went to the market on a pleasant night to eat ice cream. It
> was
>> > a
>> >> >> short walk, yet unthinkable only a month ago for a woman in the
>> > capital.
>> >> >> Still, her parents were nervous, and Zubaidi wore a head scarf and
> an
>> >> >> ankle-length skirt to avoid angering Islamic extremists.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Zubaidis, a Shiite Muslim family, have yet to pass another
>> > boundary.
>> >> >> When they fled Iraq five months ago, a Sunni family took over their
>> > large
>> >> >> house in Dora, a sprawling neighborhood in southern Baghdad. When
> the
>> >> >> Zubaidis returned this month, they were too scared to ask the new
>> >> > occupants
>> >> >> to leave. So they rented a small apartment in Mashtal, a mostly
> Shiite
>> >> >> district.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Security is better," said Melal al-Zubaidi, who has a degree in
>> >> >> engineering. "But we still have fear inside ourselves."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Over the past two months, the level of nearly every type of
>> >> >> violence --
>> >> > car
>> >> >> bombings, assassinations, suicide attacks -- has dropped from
> earlier
>> >> >> this
>> >> >> year. The downturn is a result of a confluence of factors: This
> year,
>> >> > 30,000
>> >> >> U.S. military reinforcements were funneled into Baghdad and other
>> > areas.
>> >> >> Sunni tribes and insurgents turned against the al-Qaeda in Iraq
>> > insurgent
>> >> >> group and partnered with U.S. forces to patrol neighborhoods and
>> >> >> towns.
>> >> >> Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, seeking to improve his movement's
>> >> >> image,
>> >> >> ordered his Mahdi Army militia to freeze operations.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> U.N. refugee officials estimate that 45,000 Iraqis returned from
> Syria
>> >> > last
>> >> >> month, while Iraqi officials say 1,000 are arriving each day.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The returnees find a capital that offers greater freedom of
> movement.
>> >> > Shops
>> >> >> are open later in many neighborhoods, and curfews have been
>> >> >> reduced.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But those freedoms still come with constraints. Weddings,
> accompanied
>> > by
>> >> >> honking cars and lively bands, are reappearing on the streets, but
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> still end before darkness falls. Visits to relatives and friends
>> >> >> across
>> >> >> Baghdad are more possible but still hinge on which group or sect
>> > controls
>> >> >> each neighborhood. Some stores are selling alcohol, but
>> >> >> fundamentalists
>> >> >> watch for those who breach their codes.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Luay Hashimi, 31, returned to his house in Dora with his wife and
>> >> >> three
>> >> >> young children last month after fleeing to Syria nine months ago.
>> >> >> Since
>> >> >> then, 11 other relatives who also had left for Syria -- Sunnis like
>> >> >> him --
>> >> >> have come back, too.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hashimi no longer sees bodies in the street when he opens his front
>> > door.
>> >> >> Sunni extremists no longer man checkpoints to search his vehicle
>> >> >> for
>> >> > alcohol
>> >> >> or signs of collaboration with the government or the Americans.
> Roads
>> > are
>> >> >> being paved, and municipal workers are sprucing up parks and
>> >> >> traffic
>> >> >> circles. His patch of Dora is now a fortress, surrounded by tall
> blast
>> >> > walls
>> >> >> that separate entire blocks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "It's totally secured," said Hashimi, who was an intelligence
> officer
>> >> > during
>> >> >> the government of Saddam Hussein. But a few days ago, he drove
> across
>> > the
>> >> >> main highway to another section of Dora. He felt a familiar fear.
>> > "You're
>> >> >> lost there. You don't know who controls the area, Sunni or Shia,
>> > American
>> >> >> soldiers or Iraqi security forces. It's still chaotic."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> He never drives on side streets, afraid of the unknown. On a recent
>> > day,
>> >> > he
>> >> >> wanted to visit a Shiite friend in Amil, a district controlled by
> the
>> >> > Mahdi
>> >> >> Army, whom he had not seen in a year. But his friend advised him
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> come. Hashimi felt relief. "I'm afraid to go to Shiite areas," he
>> >> >> said.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Before Hashimi left Iraq, he used to pick up a friend every day
>> >> >> from
>> > the
>> >> >> mixed enclave of Bayaa and take him to the security firm where they
>> > both
>> >> >> worked. But during his time in Syria, Shiite militias cleansed
>> >> >> Bayaa
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> Sunnis. "It's impossible for me to go there now," he said.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So he spends most of his days in his once-mixed neighborhood, now a
>> >> >> mostly
>> >> >> Sunni area. A nearby tea shop is open until 10 p.m., but all other
>> > shops
>> >> >> close by 7 p.m. Under Hussein, they used to be open past midnight.
> The
>> >> >> walled-off streets have squeezed the pool of customers.
>> >> >> Electricity,
>> >> > Hashimi
>> >> >> said, is still scarce.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Kareem Sadi Haadi, a civil engineer, did not want to return to
>> >> >> Baghdad.
>> >> > Nor
>> >> >> did most of the Iraqis he knew in Syria. He and his family had
> escaped
>> >> > there
>> >> >> five months after the U.S. invasion. But he ran out of money after
> two
>> >> >> failed attempts to smuggle his family to Europe. Two weeks ago,
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> returned to Karrada, the mostly Shiite district where the family
> once
>> >> > lived.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Today, they live in a rented apartment with furniture given to them
> by
>> >> >> relatives. Haadi said he is shocked by Baghdad's metamorphosis --
> the
>> >> >> checkpoints, road closings, traffic jams, razor wire on buildings,
> and
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> blast walls.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Baghdad feels like a military base," said Haadi, 48, a Sunni.
> "Safety
>> >> >> without these barriers is real safety."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Although he has been back in the capital for two weeks, he has not
> yet
>> >> > seen
>> >> >> his sister who lives in the mainly Shiite neighborhood of Alam,
>> >> >> controlled
>> >> >> by the Mahdi Army. She warned him that any stranger would be
>> >> >> killed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Security is when I can get in my car at 10 p.m. and drive to see
>> >> >> my
>> >> >> sister," Haadi said.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Four days ago, gunmen kidnapped a man outside the house of Haadi's
>> >> > in-laws,
>> >> >> also in Karrada.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "We don't go outside Karrada," said his wife, Anwar Mahdi, 43. "Now
> I
>> > am
>> >> >> afraid to go to my parents."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As soon as they can save enough money, Haadi said, they hope to go
>> >> >> back
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> Damascus. That could prove difficult. Syria now allows only Iraqis
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> special visas to enter.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Melal al-Zubaidi is optimistic. When she fled to Syria, she was
>> > terrified
>> >> > to
>> >> >> drive through Anbar province, where Sunni militants were pulling
>> > Shiites
>> >> >> from buses and killing them. This time, the bus drove throughout
>> >> >> the
>> >> > night.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "That comforted me," Zubaidi said. "I expect that security will
>> >> >> improve
>> >> > day
>> >> >> by day. People are tired of conflict."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Still, she has lines that she is not yet willing to cross. She has
> not
>> >> >> visited her old university, fearing car bombs or kidnappings. In a
>> > nation
>> >> >> where neighbors are often as close as relatives, Zubaidi is wary of
>> >> > trusting
>> >> >> people in her community. "We're still afraid to meet new people,"
> she
>> >> > said.
>> >> >> "This district is still strange for me. . . . I don't want to take
>> >> >> risks."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> She wonders when, or if, her family will return to Dora. Their old
>> >> >> neighbors, all Sunnis, had phoned her parents, urging them to
> return.
>> > But
>> >> >> they also told them that they were scared to ask the Sunni family
>> >> >> to
>> >> > vacate
>> >> >> their house.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "People are saying Dora is better, but we're still afraid to go,"
>> > Zubaidi
>> >> >> said. "We don't know that family's background."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Her mother, who once ran a preschool in Dora, is worried over one
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> their
>> >> >> former neighbors there. He encouraged them to leave their house
>> >> >> because
>> >> > they
>> >> >> were Shiites. And now he says he has a friend who wants to rent her
>> >> >> preschool, now shuttered. He insists the area is too dangerous for
> the
>> >> >> family to return.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "He is always terrifying us. He told us there's always a storm
>> >> >> after
>> > the
>> >> >> calm," said Um Melal, which means mother of Melal, who said she
> feared
>> >> >> having her name published. "We are suspicious. We can't go back,
>> > although
>> >> >> other Sunnis are telling us to come back, and saying, 'We'll
>> >> >> protect
>> >> >> you.'
>> >> > "
>> >> >>
>> >> >> She said the improved security was not the only reason for
>> >> >> returning
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> Iraq. She wanted to pick up her pension payments as well as winter
>> >> >> clothes
>> >> >> the family had stored away. Their Syrian residency permit has not
>> >> >> expired.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "The situation is much better, but it still feels soft, unsteady,"
> Um
>> >> > Melal
>> >> >> said. "Until now, we have not made a final decision to go back or
>> >> >> stay.
>> >> >> We're waiting to see what happens.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "I expect Baghdad will come back sooner or later," she continued.
> "But
>> >> > that
>> >> >> needs time. If you want to build a wall, it takes you 10 days. But
> if
>> > you
>> >> >> want to demolish the wall, it takes you 10 minutes."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hashimi is worried that the wall could easily crumble. He recently
>> >> >> applied
>> >> >> to join the Iraqi police. But he doesn't trust the Shiite-led
>> > government
>> >> > to
>> >> >> integrate Sunnis into the political system, the police and army.
>> >> >> And
>> > what
>> >> > if
>> >> >> the American troops leave?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Of course, if the political process is still the same, and the
>> > Americans
>> >> >> withdraw from Dora, in a couple of days everything will collapse
>> > again."
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

[robw]

Winning in Iraq does what?




"MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:X2m2j.71195$YL5.65169@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> Thanks for cluing me in on how to twist that nose ring of yours.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
>
> "robw" <noddy093@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:076dnchH1cTmd9TanZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > So winning in Iraq does what?????
> >
> > You f cking ****. You ended over 3k lives in Iraq and terrorism won't be
> > over??????
> >
> > You worthless f ckng ****.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:YPl2j.71115$YL5.11323@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> >> So you view the war on terror as if it were an arcade game?
> >>
> >> Right?
> >>
> >>
> >> The Honorable President George W. Bush told you otherwise and you
> > preferred
> >> to call him a liar!
> >>
> >>
> >> "robw" <noddy093@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:Te6dnfKh85I6KdTanZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> > Why not?
> >> > The US wins the "war" and terror goes away.
> >> >
> >> > Right?
> >> >
> >> > Isn't that what your asshole has told us?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:7Ih2j.1439$NY.590@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >> >> Not yet you moron!
> >> >>
> >> >> Why don't we bring them home from Germany lib?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "robw" <noddy093@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:L7qdnQb3mrcSB9TanZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> >> > Great!
> >> >> > So you can bring the Troops home and guarantee us no more terror
> >> >> > attacks????
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You can do this?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
> >> >> > news8I1j.22967$lD6.11645@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> >> >> >> Yet reality proves them delusionally wrong. The only reason for
> > their
> >> >> >> denials is their hatred of Bush and the political gamble they
have
> >> >> > invested
> >> >> >> in aligning themselves with the head-lopping terrorists.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Which is why I no longer hold back labeling them the traitors
they
> >> >> >> continually prove themselves to be!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/22/AR2007112201568_pf.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> BAGHDAD, Nov. 22 -- Iraqis are returning to their homeland by the
> >> >> >> hundreds
> >> >> >> each day, by bus, car and plane, encouraged by weeks of decreased
> >> >> >> violence
> >> >> >> and increased security, or compelled by visa and residency
> >> >> >> restrictions
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> neighboring countries and the depletion of their savings.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Those returning make up only a tiny fraction of the 2.2 million
> > Iraqis
> >> >> >> who
> >> >> >> have fled Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. But they
> > represent
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> largest number of returnees since February 2006, when sectarian
> >> > violence
> >> >> >> began to rise dramatically, speeding the exodus from Iraq.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Many find a Baghdad they no longer recognize, a city altered by
> > blast
> >> >> > walls
> >> >> >> and sectarian rifts. Under the improved security, Iraqis are
> > gingerly
> >> >> >> testing how far their new liberties allow them to go. But they
are
> >> >> >> also
> >> >> >> facing many barriers, geographical and psychological, hardened by
> >> >> >> violence
> >> >> >> and mistrust.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Days after she returned from Syria, 23-year-old Melal al-Zubaidi
> >> >> >> and
> > a
> >> >> >> friend went to the market on a pleasant night to eat ice cream.
It
> > was
> >> > a
> >> >> >> short walk, yet unthinkable only a month ago for a woman in the
> >> > capital.
> >> >> >> Still, her parents were nervous, and Zubaidi wore a head scarf
and
> > an
> >> >> >> ankle-length skirt to avoid angering Islamic extremists.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The Zubaidis, a Shiite Muslim family, have yet to pass another
> >> > boundary.
> >> >> >> When they fled Iraq five months ago, a Sunni family took over
their
> >> > large
> >> >> >> house in Dora, a sprawling neighborhood in southern Baghdad. When
> > the
> >> >> >> Zubaidis returned this month, they were too scared to ask the new
> >> >> > occupants
> >> >> >> to leave. So they rented a small apartment in Mashtal, a mostly
> > Shiite
> >> >> >> district.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Security is better," said Melal al-Zubaidi, who has a degree in
> >> >> >> engineering. "But we still have fear inside ourselves."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Over the past two months, the level of nearly every type of
> >> >> >> violence --
> >> >> > car
> >> >> >> bombings, assassinations, suicide attacks -- has dropped from
> > earlier
> >> >> >> this
> >> >> >> year. The downturn is a result of a confluence of factors: This
> > year,
> >> >> > 30,000
> >> >> >> U.S. military reinforcements were funneled into Baghdad and other
> >> > areas.
> >> >> >> Sunni tribes and insurgents turned against the al-Qaeda in Iraq
> >> > insurgent
> >> >> >> group and partnered with U.S. forces to patrol neighborhoods and
> >> >> >> towns.
> >> >> >> Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, seeking to improve his movement's
> >> >> >> image,
> >> >> >> ordered his Mahdi Army militia to freeze operations.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> U.N. refugee officials estimate that 45,000 Iraqis returned from
> > Syria
> >> >> > last
> >> >> >> month, while Iraqi officials say 1,000 are arriving each day.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The returnees find a capital that offers greater freedom of
> > movement.
> >> >> > Shops
> >> >> >> are open later in many neighborhoods, and curfews have been
> >> >> >> reduced.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> But those freedoms still come with constraints. Weddings,
> > accompanied
> >> > by
> >> >> >> honking cars and lively bands, are reappearing on the streets,
but
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> still end before darkness falls. Visits to relatives and friends
> >> >> >> across
> >> >> >> Baghdad are more possible but still hinge on which group or sect
> >> > controls
> >> >> >> each neighborhood. Some stores are selling alcohol, but
> >> >> >> fundamentalists
> >> >> >> watch for those who breach their codes.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Luay Hashimi, 31, returned to his house in Dora with his wife and
> >> >> >> three
> >> >> >> young children last month after fleeing to Syria nine months ago.
> >> >> >> Since
> >> >> >> then, 11 other relatives who also had left for Syria -- Sunnis
like
> >> >> >> him --
> >> >> >> have come back, too.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hashimi no longer sees bodies in the street when he opens his
front
> >> > door.
> >> >> >> Sunni extremists no longer man checkpoints to search his vehicle
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> > alcohol
> >> >> >> or signs of collaboration with the government or the Americans.
> > Roads
> >> > are
> >> >> >> being paved, and municipal workers are sprucing up parks and
> >> >> >> traffic
> >> >> >> circles. His patch of Dora is now a fortress, surrounded by tall
> > blast
> >> >> > walls
> >> >> >> that separate entire blocks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "It's totally secured," said Hashimi, who was an intelligence
> > officer
> >> >> > during
> >> >> >> the government of Saddam Hussein. But a few days ago, he drove
> > across
> >> > the
> >> >> >> main highway to another section of Dora. He felt a familiar fear.
> >> > "You're
> >> >> >> lost there. You don't know who controls the area, Sunni or Shia,
> >> > American
> >> >> >> soldiers or Iraqi security forces. It's still chaotic."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> He never drives on side streets, afraid of the unknown. On a
recent
> >> > day,
> >> >> > he
> >> >> >> wanted to visit a Shiite friend in Amil, a district controlled by
> > the
> >> >> > Mahdi
> >> >> >> Army, whom he had not seen in a year. But his friend advised him
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> come. Hashimi felt relief. "I'm afraid to go to Shiite areas," he
> >> >> >> said.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Before Hashimi left Iraq, he used to pick up a friend every day
> >> >> >> from
> >> > the
> >> >> >> mixed enclave of Bayaa and take him to the security firm where
they
> >> > both
> >> >> >> worked. But during his time in Syria, Shiite militias cleansed
> >> >> >> Bayaa
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> Sunnis. "It's impossible for me to go there now," he said.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> So he spends most of his days in his once-mixed neighborhood, now
a
> >> >> >> mostly
> >> >> >> Sunni area. A nearby tea shop is open until 10 p.m., but all
other
> >> > shops
> >> >> >> close by 7 p.m. Under Hussein, they used to be open past
midnight.
> > The
> >> >> >> walled-off streets have squeezed the pool of customers.
> >> >> >> Electricity,
> >> >> > Hashimi
> >> >> >> said, is still scarce.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Kareem Sadi Haadi, a civil engineer, did not want to return to
> >> >> >> Baghdad.
> >> >> > Nor
> >> >> >> did most of the Iraqis he knew in Syria. He and his family had
> > escaped
> >> >> > there
> >> >> >> five months after the U.S. invasion. But he ran out of money
after
> > two
> >> >> >> failed attempts to smuggle his family to Europe. Two weeks ago,
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> returned to Karrada, the mostly Shiite district where the family
> > once
> >> >> > lived.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Today, they live in a rented apartment with furniture given to
them
> > by
> >> >> >> relatives. Haadi said he is shocked by Baghdad's metamorphosis --
> > the
> >> >> >> checkpoints, road closings, traffic jams, razor wire on
buildings,
> > and
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> blast walls.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Baghdad feels like a military base," said Haadi, 48, a Sunni.
> > "Safety
> >> >> >> without these barriers is real safety."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Although he has been back in the capital for two weeks, he has
not
> > yet
> >> >> > seen
> >> >> >> his sister who lives in the mainly Shiite neighborhood of Alam,
> >> >> >> controlled
> >> >> >> by the Mahdi Army. She warned him that any stranger would be
> >> >> >> killed.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Security is when I can get in my car at 10 p.m. and drive to see
> >> >> >> my
> >> >> >> sister," Haadi said.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Four days ago, gunmen kidnapped a man outside the house of
Haadi's
> >> >> > in-laws,
> >> >> >> also in Karrada.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "We don't go outside Karrada," said his wife, Anwar Mahdi, 43.
"Now
> > I
> >> > am
> >> >> >> afraid to go to my parents."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> As soon as they can save enough money, Haadi said, they hope to
go
> >> >> >> back
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> Damascus. That could prove difficult. Syria now allows only
Iraqis
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> special visas to enter.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Melal al-Zubaidi is optimistic. When she fled to Syria, she was
> >> > terrified
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> drive through Anbar province, where Sunni militants were pulling
> >> > Shiites
> >> >> >> from buses and killing them. This time, the bus drove throughout
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> > night.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "That comforted me," Zubaidi said. "I expect that security will
> >> >> >> improve
> >> >> > day
> >> >> >> by day. People are tired of conflict."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Still, she has lines that she is not yet willing to cross. She
has
> > not
> >> >> >> visited her old university, fearing car bombs or kidnappings. In
a
> >> > nation
> >> >> >> where neighbors are often as close as relatives, Zubaidi is wary
of
> >> >> > trusting
> >> >> >> people in her community. "We're still afraid to meet new people,"
> > she
> >> >> > said.
> >> >> >> "This district is still strange for me. . . . I don't want to
take
> >> >> >> risks."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> She wonders when, or if, her family will return to Dora. Their
old
> >> >> >> neighbors, all Sunnis, had phoned her parents, urging them to
> > return.
> >> > But
> >> >> >> they also told them that they were scared to ask the Sunni family
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> > vacate
> >> >> >> their house.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "People are saying Dora is better, but we're still afraid to go,"
> >> > Zubaidi
> >> >> >> said. "We don't know that family's background."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Her mother, who once ran a preschool in Dora, is worried over one
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> their
> >> >> >> former neighbors there. He encouraged them to leave their house
> >> >> >> because
> >> >> > they
> >> >> >> were Shiites. And now he says he has a friend who wants to rent
her
> >> >> >> preschool, now shuttered. He insists the area is too dangerous
for
> > the
> >> >> >> family to return.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "He is always terrifying us. He told us there's always a storm
> >> >> >> after
> >> > the
> >> >> >> calm," said Um Melal, which means mother of Melal, who said she
> > feared
> >> >> >> having her name published. "We are suspicious. We can't go back,
> >> > although
> >> >> >> other Sunnis are telling us to come back, and saying, 'We'll
> >> >> >> protect
> >> >> >> you.'
> >> >> > "
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> She said the improved security was not the only reason for
> >> >> >> returning
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> Iraq. She wanted to pick up her pension payments as well as
winter
> >> >> >> clothes
> >> >> >> the family had stored away. Their Syrian residency permit has not
> >> >> >> expired.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "The situation is much better, but it still feels soft,
unsteady,"
> > Um
> >> >> > Melal
> >> >> >> said. "Until now, we have not made a final decision to go back or
> >> >> >> stay.
> >> >> >> We're waiting to see what happens.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "I expect Baghdad will come back sooner or later," she continued.
> > "But
> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> needs time. If you want to build a wall, it takes you 10 days.
But
> > if
> >> > you
> >> >> >> want to demolish the wall, it takes you 10 minutes."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hashimi is worried that the wall could easily crumble. He
recently
> >> >> >> applied
> >> >> >> to join the Iraqi police. But he doesn't trust the Shiite-led
> >> > government
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> integrate Sunnis into the political system, the police and army.
> >> >> >> And
> >> > what
> >> >> > if
> >> >> >> the American troops leave?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Of course, if the political process is still the same, and the
> >> > Americans
> >> >> >> withdraw from Dora, in a couple of days everything will collapse
> >> > again."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Passerby]

(Closing statement in this debate, in consideration of your at least
attempting to provide supporting documentation, however N/A, misguided
and/or wrong).

Valiant, if not futile effort.

Nothing you've posted (and obviously neglected, again, to read through
thoroughly to get the whole picture) addresses the all-important methodology
and diversity of who's doing the compiling. Afterall, if you recall, that's
what's at the crux of the debate; e.g., the reliability/accuracy of the
#'s...and their overall significance).

(Example: The link you included for an OpEd piece by Krauthammer, an avowed
neocon, does not qualify as a credible source, not simply because he's a
rabid chickenhawk republican...but because, like you, he didn't address the
above issue. Even worse, the way in which he dismisses the failure to
achieve benchmarks and the lack of national reconciliation comes close to
trivializing it as nit-picking or inconsequential. Yet, in previous columns,
he's pointed out how hopeless and disastrous Maliki's pseudo-government
is...and how essential reconciliation is before a quantifiable success in
Iraq can be declared, which looks to be never. Go figure, eh?.).

Further...and most glaringly...you didn't address your claim that it's THE
FRONTLINE REPORTERS who are claiming a drop in violence.

Your love for DUHbya has blinded you to such a degree, that you can't even
verify or support your own claims, much less anyone else's.

Reminder: The goal of "the surge" was to rein in violence to provide for
conditions secure enough to enable political and national reconciliation.
Failed.

How low has the bar for defining "success/victory" in Iraq been set, yet
again?

A burrowed-in gopher couldn't manage to limbo under it.

You're tiresome.

Final ciao.


"MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:7Nl2j.71103$YL5.60565@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...0,1,3852025.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage
> BAGHDAD -- As Iraq's government on Monday trumpeted a dramatic decline in
> violence, describing it as a sign that sectarian warfare is waning, U.S.
> officials warned that the gains would be short-lived if the nation's
> leaders did not use the relative calm to advance political reconciliation.
>
> http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=50483
> BAGHDAD - Reduced violence in Baghdad means soldiers here spend more time
> meeting Iraqi leaders, restoring essential services and handing out sweets
> and soccer balls than they do battling insurgents.
>
> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071124/OPINION/711240395/1002/OPINION
> It does not have the drama of the Inchon landing or the sweep of the Union
> comeback in the summer of 1864. But the turnabout of American fortunes in
> Iraq over the past several months is of equal moment -- a war seemingly
> lost, now winnable. The violence in Iraq has been dramatically reduced.
> Political allegiances have been radically reversed. The revival of
> ordinary life in many cities is palpable. Something important is
> happening.
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSL25211075
> BAGHDAD, Nov 25 (Reuters) - Iraq's tightening of border security has cut
> the number of infiltrators entering illegally, a senior border guard
> officer said on Sunday, and U.S. officials said the number of foreign
> fighters coming into Iraq had fallen.
>
> Major-General Mohsen Abdul-Hassan, director general of Iraq's department
> of border enforcement, told a news conference that the number of border
> guards had reached around 43,500, nearly twice the force's size under
> Saddam Hussein.
>
> "I can say with confidence that the border with neighbouring nations is
> more than four times better than the past," he said.
>
> http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g3Tm6C9TEb6VMFDGDxVKslKJ8tyg
> WASHINGTON (AFP) - Two senior US lawmakers said on Sunday the Iraqi
> government needed to move quickly to take advantage of improved security
> conditions to forge political reconciliation.
>
> http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/james_denselow/2007/11/the_new_iraq.html
> In recent months, Iraq has moved on to the backburner of world news. With
> no democratic or military milestone on the horizon and levels of violence
> dramatically reduced, some argue that the beleaguered country has turned a
> corner and is on the mend. These commentators point to the drop in deaths
> through bombings, the declining daily numbers of sectarian casualties and
> the thousands returning to their homes. Have General Petraeus and
> Ambassador Crocker cracked the Iraqi conundrum and come up with a US
> "strategy for victory" that is worthy of its name?
>
> http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071125/WDH06/711250385/1637/WDHopinion
>
>
> "Passerby" <MrE@midnight.net> wrote in message
> news:Upj2j.2275$_m.1522@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:CZe2j.48045$eY.12135@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>> "Passerby" <MrE@midnight.net> wrote in message
>>> news:AYa2j.2449$rc2.380@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>> "MioMyo" <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
>>>> newsQU1j.2912$fl7.1480@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Passerby" <MrE@midnight.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:OYJ1j.701$mb.466@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mordacpreventor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:b78ce1db-e015-4c2e-9e49-791fa519cdaf@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On Nov 23, 2:05 pm, "MioMyo" <USA_Patr...@Somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yet reality proves them delusionally wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong again. Pay attention here. It's your delusion that
>>>>>> continually distorts the realities and proves you clueless.
>>>>>> Distinction with a huge difference. You really and truly cannot get
>>>>>> out of your own way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only reason for their
>>>>>>>> denials is their hatred of Bush and the political gamble they have
>>>>>>>> invested
>>>>>>>> in aligning themselves with the head-lopping terrorists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Old, worn, trite, overplayed and untrue talking point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which is why I no longer hold back labeling them the traitors they
>>>>>>>> continually prove themselves to be!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'd do well to hold back from posting your misconstrued, unglued
>>>>>> ravings. It's recommended you not only read what you post, but also
>>>>>> make an effort to understand the content.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea why...with all that decreased violence and increased
>>>>>> security, DUHbya wasn't encouraged to hop over there for another
>>>>>> plastic turkey photo op with the troops?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/22/AR200...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BAGHDAD, Nov. 22 -- Iraqis are returning to their homeland by the
>>>>>>>> hundreds
>>>>>>>> each day, by bus, car and plane, encouraged by weeks of decreased
>>>>>>>> violence
>>>>>>>> and increased security, or compelled by visa and residency
>>>>>>>> restrictions in
>>>>>>>> neighboring countries and the depletion of their savings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those returning make up only a tiny fraction of the 2.2 million
>>>>>>>> Iraqis who
>>>>>>>> have fled Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. But they
>>>>>>>> represent the
>>>>>>>> largest number of returnees since February 2006, when sectarian
>>>>>>>> violence
>>>>>>>> began to rise dramatically, speeding the exodus from Iraq.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Damn, YoYo, don't you even bother to read the articles you post?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Syria is kicking out all the Iraqi refugees, other countries are
>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>> the same, the Iraqi refugees are running out of money and only a
>>>>>>> fraction of the refugees are coming back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that is in the first two paragraphs of the article.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some success.
>>>>>
>>>>> So where is your news report citation of Syrian's actions?
>>>>>
>>>>> The only information that googles up is that there are Iraqi refugees
>>>>> there.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it looks like once again it's easier for a liberal to cite a lie
>>>>> than accept the truth!
>>>>>
>>>>>> No wonder the repub's almost always get it wrong. Not only do most
>>>>>> exhibit a lack of reading comprehension skills, but they also fail to
>>>>>> read the entire articles before posting them. I've noticed that in
>>>>>> almost every instance, their take and take-away are based on a couple
>>>>>> of lead paragraphs which they usually misinterpret (or cherry-picked
>>>>>> excerpts, for which they are so famous). So desperate are they to
>>>>>> spin a win, they jump to conclusions in support of their delusions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that violence is down in Iraq is fact. So while you morons
>>>>> here whine about fictional issues (like the Syrian- Iraqi Refugees
>>>>> being kicked out), do pay attention to this Sunday's political talk
>>>>> forums, They won't be able to preclude successes in Iraq dialog lib!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yet more profundity; i.e., fact is fact.
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/yonakw
>>>>
>>>> Excerpt:
>>>>
>>>> Experts Doubt Drop In Violence in Iraq
>>>> Military Statistics Called Into Question
>>>>
>>>> By Karen DeYoung
>>>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>>>> Thursday, September 6, 2007; A16
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The U.S. military's claim that violence has decreased sharply in Iraq
>>>> in
>>>
>>> I guess you never bothered noticing that it's ON THE FRONT LINE
>>> reporters who have been claiming a drop in violence!
>>>
>>> Next...
>>
>> Perhaps not bothering to notice is due to the fact that your claim is
>> wrong, yet again? "Front line....?" "....reporters?" Your turn to
>> cite. What "front line"? Reporters from what news outlets? U.S.?
>> (dwindling and often targetted, murdered or arrested...and reports
>> censored, sanitized and/or filtered.) Inside the Green zone...or
>> outside?
>>
>> You can't possibly be saying that you think that "reporters" (or troops,
>> for that matter) in the battle zones are making tick marks and keeping
>> count or accurately identifying casualties?
>>
>> First casualty in war is the truth. Just keep that in mind before making
>> mindless claims about statistics and who's recording/reporting them.
>>
>> Done with you, little fellow. I must be more disciplined in adhering to
>> this normally followed advice: "Never engage in a battle of wits with an
>> unarmed opponent."
>
> The only questions you need to answer now is whose ass and why have you
> had it buried up inside it?
>
>
>>>> recent months has come under scrutiny from many experts within and
>>>> outside the government, who contend that some of the underlying
>>>> statistics are questionable and selectively ignore negative trends.
>>>>
>>>> Fictional issues? WMD ring any bells?
>>>>
>>>> "...successes in Iraq"? Let's say a hapless, disastrous football team
>>>> wins one game in a season. Overall loss recorded, yes?
>>>>
>>>> That aside, research the GAO, ISG, Center for Strategic and
>>>> International Studies and military statistics compilations and you'll
>>>> soon discover just how complicated and fuzzy the math is when it comes
>>>> to determining actual levels of violence vis a vis the reasons,
>>>> definitions, areas and who's doing the compiling. You wouldn't be
>>>> surprised to learn, would you, that violence classifications reportedly
>>>> were (conveniently?) "downgraded" so as to be eliminated, in order to
>>>> present a more positive picture than that which exists? And some areas
>>>> where violence occurs/occurred weren't even included? In other words,
>>>> more delusion versus reality. You may recall that in 2003, the State
>>>> Department "miscounted" and/or "excluded" certain worldwide terrorist
>>>> incidents, which resulted in significant underreporting. Apologies were
>>>> extended (Powell) for the "miscaluclation" and it was determined that
>>>> the percentage increase in worldwide terrorist attacks was considerably
>>>> higher. Numbers game.
>>>>
>>>> Rather than request that you be spoon-fed supporting
>>>> sites/cites/sources, why not do some digging on your own, before
>>>> directing anyone to pay attention to political talk forums? You really
>>>> do need to cease your flights of fantasy aboard the flying spin
>>>> machines out there.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, it really all depends on what the meaning of the word
>>>> "success" is...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Click@Knicklas.com]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:30:32 GMT, "MioMyo"
<USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote:

>So you view the war on terror as if it were an arcade game?
>
>Right?

No, we view the "war on terror" as a conservative means
to keep a political ideology relevant, you ****ing
dimwit

Conservatism thrives ONLY when a "threat" is perceived.

Making the public perceive a threat is what dozens of
rightwing propaganda mills put out

Scaring the General public with a constant threat---is
the underlying agenda of conservative republicanism

 

[Click@Knicklas.com]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:46:31 GMT, "MioMyo"
<USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote:

>Thanks for cluing me in on how to twist that nose ring of yours.


So, the needless deaths of 4,000 AMerican servicement
is fun and games for you?

 

[MioMyo]

<Click@Knicklas.com> wrote in message
news:q8dkk3l6osd88ekb0t3aj1nvvusic2h5so@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:46:31 GMT, "MioMyo"
> <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>Thanks for cluing me in on how to twist that nose ring of yours.
>
>
> So, the needless deaths of 4,000 AMerican servicement
> is fun and games for you?


No, but kicking a Lying Liberal's ass around like yours is!

 

[Click@Knicklas.com]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:31:24 GMT, "MioMyo"
<USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote:

>
><Click@Knicklas.com> wrote in message


>> So, the needless deaths of 4,000 AMerican servicement
>> is fun and games for you?
>
>
>No, but kicking a Lying Liberal's ass around like yours is!

How is laughing about dead military and using it to
"kick ass" not sick?

BTW, you've never "kicked ass" since you've been
here----all you manage to do is spam some bullshit
propaganda and expect everyone to accept it's veracity

The was was based on lies

The war was an ill-thought out "plan" by NeoCons and
conservatives to try and bolster political power

It failed-----just like all policies based on Lies
does.

 

[llorT kreM gliB]

"MioMyo" <USA_unpatriot@Somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:MUz2j.27040$lD6.6116@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

> No, but kicking a Lying Liberal's ass around like yours is!

This kind of rightarded nonsense is why you KKKrooKKKed lying repugnigoons
can't win elections.

 

[MioMyo]

<Click@Knicklas.com> wrote in message
news:vnllk3lp4l5gqpg6nan8ohh6kamihdtbq0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:31:24 GMT, "MioMyo"
> <USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><Click@Knicklas.com> wrote in message
>
>
>>> So, the needless deaths of 4,000 AMerican servicement
>>> is fun and games for you?
>>
>>
>>No, but kicking a Lying Liberal's ass around like yours is!
>
> How is laughing about dead military and using it to
> "kick ass" not sick?

I know of no one doing that, but go ahead and lie otherwise. That's what you
do best anyway.

Still coming back rubbing your lies in your face, kicking your silly ass
around is amusing!


>
> BTW, you've never "kicked ass" since you've been
> here----all you manage to do is spam some bullshit
> propaganda and expect everyone to accept it's veracity
>
> The was was based on lies
>
> The war was an ill-thought out "plan" by NeoCons and
> conservatives to try and bolster political power
>
> It failed-----just like all policies based on Lies
> does.

 

[Click@Knicklas.com]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:11:17 -0800, "MioMyo"
<USA_Patriot@Somewhere.com> wrote:

>I know of no one doing that, but go ahead and lie otherwise. That's what you
>do best anyway.

Using dead soldiers to "score flame points" is
disgusting,

>Still coming back rubbing your lies in your face, kicking your silly ass
>around is amusing!

You haven't rubbed anyone---unless it's your boyfriend,
**** head

>================================================================

>From: dana raffaniello (danaraffanie...@worldnet.att.net)

>Subject: houston toilet for ladies
>Newsgroups: alt.personals.fetish

>View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
>Date: 1997/11/02

>use me as your toilet. will be toilet for female parties.
>can also be used as a rug, so you can walk on me.