So he was Not a terrorist!

[ArabChick]

BBC. Sunday 24 July, A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was a Brazilian electrician unconnected to the incidents.

The man, who died at Stockwell Tube on Friday, has been named by police as Jean Charles de Menezes, 27. Scotland Yard said Mr Menezes, who lived in Brixton, south London, was completely unconnected to the bomb attacks and added: "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."



My cousin was a victim of government's mistakes


Now I wonder how many innocent people are in jail..dead because of a mistake! Wakeup BLAIR

Ms. ArabChick

 

[phreakwars]

Yep, he was a Mexican... oops I'm sorry, I mean Southern American.

**** happens, it just shows you what is going to continue to happen unless ISLAM helps weed out the "RACE AND ETHNICITY, AND YES COLOR" of an extremist stereotype from the moderate follower.

Can YOU YOURSELF differentiate between a SOUTHERN AMERICAN, and say an EXTREMIST from Egypt or Saudi Arabia ?? Sure you could use the stereotypical look to differentiate (Big nosed olive skin, or BLACK) a typical MUSLIM from other ethnic groups but this just proves that in order to find the right guy, and isolate him from the innocent bystander, is almost not possible in a state of panic and chaos.

Its like my neighbors a couple houses over, they are Iranian, yet LOOK HISPANIC, so many people are under the impression they are MEXICANS.

Yet, in a beef packing house I worked in, the Muslims I worked with and talked to, were like that hotty "AIG". Now her beliefs aside, she would probably be classified as a Black... or in some cases, a ******.

In closing, if we go around shooting a bunch of spics and ******s to get to a few extremists, then we are TRULY under a martial law rule.

Muslims MUST be the ones to end the violence, not just to western culture, but violence amongst themselves.

If not, then it MIGHT just be you next time AIG, or Jaffer, or ArabChick, this is not a scare tactic from the government, it is the end result of how YOUR life will be effected by letting yourselves be intimidated and scared of those who blasphemes what you believe in in such a way that it makes your fellow man HATE your beliefs.

Innocent victim ?? No, I think they shot someone who shows what true martyrdom is, and not from a religious standpoint, but from a standpoint of HUMANITY and its standards of equality to all ethnic and color groups in the world.

A standard that was created by EXTREMISTS.
.
.

 

[Vortex]

Yep phreak yep!

and untill those Tied......yes tied...to these extremists realize that it is up to them to speak out (without the witty "it was their own fault for so and so") things will only get worse!.....

I respect everyones faith...no matter how much i despise it because everyone should have their own decision to follow their own path (so long as it doesnt harm anyone else).....But once it starts hurting others on a massive scale....then i see fault in it and something needs to be done. I have always seen islam as a force trying to do good no matter who sais what.......just like christianity...whom tries to do good...but just vomits hypocracy left and right to justify thier "goals"....but now i see islam as exactly the same yet differennt....neither faith seems to do any good in this world..and both needs to be eradicated...but war isnt really the answer...


and extremists exist in EVERY faith....no matter how small or how important....

Yet i ask this...if extremists breed in all faiths..what good is faith...

Other than having faith in your own heart and self to do whats right...not listning to some book that you can never believe is true??

 

[ALLAH IS GREAT]

The guy was brazilian to be exact and he looked like an arab,so do you think they targeted him coz he fit the profile of hmmmm let's see an ARAB/MUSLIM?

Phreak,Somalians are hardly classified as ******s.Most people think we're asian.Well,my skin is light brown so i'm ****ed looking like some pakistani/bangladeshi.Watch out for da bullets AIG

I agree that we as muslims need to stand against these terrorists,but phreak don't use this to try and justify the murder of any innocent person.
There is no denying the police outnumbered him and could have dealed with the situation in a better way.

BTW Phreak, you HOTTY too

 

[fullauto]

It's not justification AIG.... It's rationalisation... You have a lot of growing up to do...

 

[Msixty]

from what i heard (this could be wrong) is that the man had on a large black trench coat, in the summer, and ran from police after repeatedly being told to stop

 

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Well, not knowing much about the Koran, I can't say how what's going on relates to what it says.

The Bible, however, comndemns hypocrisy. Jesus called the Pharisees whitewashed tombs, clean and beautiful on the outside, but full of dead men's bones and rot. Jesus said to avoid praying in public, to avoid making a self serving show of yourself and your piety like others did. Jesus even said that if you commit adultry in your heart, you have commited adultry.

Now, I would think the "Christian" hypocrites are not followers of Jesus the Christ,seeing as they don't care for what He said, and are thus not Christians. Thus, it isn't faith that is producing this, it's just used to make them look good.

Faith is only loosely related to the workings of the IRA, even though their conflict seems like a religious one. The protestants were basicly allied to the English, as the English converted to protestant. The Irish Catholics were the remaining hold outs, continuing the Irish resistance of English control that had started since England had become a nation to try and conquer Ireland. This is a political war, not a religious one, religion is just a cover.

Some of the most terrible things in history have happened in atheistic regimes. The Soviet Union. China. Need I say more?

This **** will continue as long as the majority of humanity can't strictly follow beliefs like those Jesus gave us, among these is not to **** your neighbor around because it gets you something you want. And that will be to the very end.

As far as the Quran goes, I don't know. Mohammed was a conquerer, not a man of peace like Jesus. The Isrealites were supposed to be directly guided by God in what they took, and the entirety was planned before the campaign even started. Mohammad doesn't seem to have stated any limit on his planned conquest; either by his own sword and command of men or the followers of Islam. You'll have to ask our resident Muslims about these things.

 

[ALLAH IS GREAT]

As far as the Quran goes, I don't know. Mohammed was a conquerer, not a man of peace like Jesus. The Isrealites were supposed to be directly guided by God in what they took, and the entirety was planned before the campaign even started. Mohammad doesn't seem to have stated any limit on his planned conquest; either by his own sword and command of men or the followers of Islam. You'll have to ask our resident Muslims about these things.

Yeah,you're right about 1 thing,you really ''don't know'.You say you don't know then say something about the Prophet(pbuh).
He was not a ''conquerer'',he was a defender of what he believed and a defender of what was his.I really hope you get the book I recomended,coz then you'll know the real Muhammed(pbuh).He was a gentle,trustworthy man.
Everyone respected him all his life,except when he was given the message that is Islam.People used to worship idols before Islam,slaves and women were mistreated.Then the message was brought,and Islam gave rights to everything,including animals.e.g the camel was not to be over loaded,as it was a custom back then to move caravans of trade on the backs of camels.
So when you say the word,''conquerer'',you sum him(pbuh) up as some kind of greedy man who only wanted power.The muslims were tortured,their homes were taken and they were exiled from Macca just because they embrased Islam.Then Allah gave them the message(via the Qu'ran) to defend themselves.And so it was.Battles took place,the muslims won at times,and lost at times.But in the end majority of the people saw the beauty of Islam and therefore the muslim army grew and grew.

I ain't against the fact that Jesus was a great man.Indeed he was one of the messagers of Allah,and he is one of the closest to God.And I love him and all the prophets(peace be upon them all).The only difference between us is that I don't make any distinction between them.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Yeah,you're right about 1 thing,you really ''don't know'.You say you don't know then say something about the Prophet(pbuh).
He was not a ''conquerer'',he was a defender of what he believed and a defender of what was his.I really hope you get the book I recomended,coz then you'll know the real Muhammed(pbuh).He was a gentle,trustworthy man.
Everyone respected him all his life,except when he was given the message that is Islam.People used to worship idols before Islam,slaves and women were mistreated.Then the message was brought,and Islam gave rights to everything,including animals.e.g the camel was not to be over loaded,as it was a custom back then to move caravans of trade on the backs of camels.
So when you say the word,''conquerer'',you sum him(pbuh) up as some kind of greedy man who only wanted power.The muslims were tortured,their homes were taken and they were exiled from Macca just because they embrased Islam.Then Allah gave them the message(via the Qu'ran) to defend themselves.And so it was.Battles took place,the muslims won at times,the jews won at times.But in the end majority of the people saw the beauty of Islam and therefore the muslim army grew and grew.

I ain't against the fact that Jesus was a great man.Indeed he was one of the messagers of Allah,and he is one of the closest to God.And I love him and all the prophets(peace be upon them all).The only difference between us is that I don't make any distinction between them.

AIG, you are so full of ****! Mohammed(may piss be upon him) was most definitely a conqueror! The people that converted didn't see the beauty (because there is none) They were subjugated! They either converted or were murdered... If you want to rewrite history go talk to some somalians, here we speak the truth!

 

[ALLAH IS GREAT]

AIG, you are so full of ****! Mohammed(may piss be upon him) was most definitely a conqueror! The people that converted didn't see the beauty (because there is none) They were subjugated! They either converted or were murdered... If you want to rewrite history go talk to some somalians, here we speak the truth!

PROOF ASSHOLE PROOF.DON'T JUST RUN YOUR MOUTH.
I used to think you were smart,where did you bang your head this time?
YOU DON'T KNOW ****,TRUTH DOESN'T FIT ANY OF YOUR POSTS!!

 

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Here's what Wikipedia says on the whole issue:

Muhammad as a warrior
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Muhammad (c.570-632) the prophet of Islam, was a warrior during the last ten years of his life. He preached Islam in his home city, Mecca, from 613 to 622. He and his followers patiently endured taunts and persecution. Finally they fled Mecca and established themselves in Medina, a neighboring city.

Mecca and Medina were soon at war. The war spread, as each city formed alliances and fought to extend its sway. The Muslims were ultimately victorious, with Muhammad entering Mecca -- without a fight -- as its new ruler. This occurred only eight years after his flight from the city. The last two years of his life were spent subduing the other tribes and cities of the Arabian peninsula. He was, in essence, the ruler of Arabia at the time of his death.

Muhammad's critics often hold that the Muslims engaged in wars of aggression, that they caused much bloodshed and suffering, that they imposed Islam at the point of a sword, and that Muhammad's conduct is not an example to be imitated.

Muslims respond that the Muslims fought only when attacked, or in the context of a wider war of self-defense. They argue that Muhammad was the first among the major military figures of history to lay down rules for humane warfare, and that he was scrupulous in limiting the loss of life as much as possible.

Some Muslims have argued that by consulting the sirah, or biographical work, of early writers such as Ibn Ishaq, Al-Tabari, and Ibn Hisham, it is possible to reconstruct a casualty figure of well under one thousand persons during the campaigns of Muhammad. Critics dismiss this as special pleading based on late and incomplete evidence.

Of those who died in the early wars, several hundred were the men of one of Medina's Jewish tribes. They were accused of planning to betraying, or betraying, the Muslims of Medina to an army from Mecca. As soon as the Meccans were repelled, at the Battle of the Trench, the Muslims turned against the Banu Qurayza. The Qurayza eventually surrendered and agreed that their fate should be decided by an arbitrator. They gave their assent to the proposed arbitrator, who surprised them by judging that all the adult males of the tribe should be put to death. This was done. Some say that Muhammad should have intervened in the cause of mercy, others that he bears no blame in this matter. This incident has been extremely controversial. Please see the article on the Banu Qurayza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_as_a_warrior

So it seems that Mohammed wasn't as big on the fighting as I thought, and Islam was growing without war, but in the end subjugation wasn't excluded as a part of the spread of Islam under Mohammed.

 

[fullauto]

PROOF ASSHOLE PROOF.DON'T JUST RUN YOUR MOUTH.
I used to think you were smart,where did you bang your head this time?
YOU DON'T KNOW ****,TRUTH DOESN'T FIT ANY OF YOUR POSTS!!

AIG... You really need to do some more reading on the history of Islam if you plan to defend it the way you do... You haven't made a single statement on the forum that wasn't proven wrong one way or another... People like you are the reason I hate organized religion... Always changing the facts to suit your version of the truth...

 

[ta2dgirl28]

Alright, that is a sad thing, it really is. How many people in the world trade center deserved to die in the bombings in 2001? How many of the fire fighters, police and others helping to save the survivors deserved to die trying to save lives? They were wrong in what they did, but, considering that 50 some died 2 weeks before, they have to go with instinct, and I guess they are the ones who have to have that on their conscience. They were trying to prevent another mass murder. Alot of people have been accused of things they didn't do. I would guess after this mistake, they will be a little more careful. Didn't he not follow police commands and just take off and run away anyway? Given the circumstances, I guess most people would have considered him a part of the plan. If you have nothing to do with it, and you know what has happened (just 2 weeks prior and he was in London, how would he not know) you would think he would have done what the police asked and not made himself look suspicious.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

PROOF ASSHOLE PROOF.DON'T JUST RUN YOUR MOUTH.
I used to think you were smart,where did you bang your head this time?
YOU DON'T KNOW ****,TRUTH DOESN'T FIT ANY OF YOUR POSTS!!

Why on earth should I "prove" this or anything else that has already been proven several times over? If you are too stupid to get it the first, second or even the third time... it it is your fault! Go do your own homework.

I really don't care about ancient history anyway. If Mohammed(may piss be upon him) was a conqueror or not is not really relevant to me. All the current islamic jihad against the west is what really pisses me off, and I think it is HIGH TIME that the west acknowledges this, and reciprocates with some major warfare against islam! (I can't wait to see Tehran fall just like Bagdad)... But the most glorious will be when that ****-hole Mecca is leveled flat and noone will be able to enter its stench for 30 to 40 years because of the extreamly high radiation eminating from its core!

 

[ALLAH IS GREAT]

OK,people.I'll give you a record of the awful injustices faced by the muslims in the past.TWT,this is a record of what happened, from ''The sealed nectar''.I trust this source coz it is the most accurate and has been confirmed to be accurate.

PERSECUTIONS

At the beginning of the fourth year of the call(to Islam),and for a period of some months,the polytheists confined their harassment tactics to those mentioned above.After they realized that they could not restrict the inflow of people to Islam without persecuting the believers and torturing them,they arranged for another meeting.This time after consultation,the campaign of persecuting the Muslims and torturing them to get them to leave their religion was approved.Each of the leaders began persecuting anyone in their tribe found to be following the religion of Islam.

Whenever Abu Jahl heard of the conversion of a man of high birth with powerful friends,he would degrade his good sense and intellect,undermine his judgement;and threaten him with terrible consequences if he was a merchant.If the new convert was socially weak,he would beat him mercilessly and put him to unspeakable tortures.

The uncle of 'Uthman bin 'Affan used to wrap 'Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) in a mat of palm leaves,and set fire under him.When Umm Mus'ab bin 'Umair heard of her son's conversion,she put him to starvation and then expelled him from her house.He used to enjoy a full luxurious easy life,but as the outcome of the tortures he had to bear,his skin became marked with wrinkles and his suffering showed.

Bilal(may Allah be pleased with him),the slave of Umaiyah bin Khalaf,was severely beaten by his master when the latter came to know of his conversion to Islam.Sometimes a rope was put around his neck and street boys were made to drag him through the streets and even across the hillocks of Makkah.At times he was subjected to prolonged deprivation of food and drink.Once he was bound during the hottest part of the day and placed in the valley in Makkah.Then Umaiya had a giant stone brought and placed it upon his chest.He said,''By Allah(God)!I will not stop until you are dead or until you reject Muhammed and worship Lat and 'Uzza(2 big idols)''.Yet while Bilal was suffering,he said only,''One,One.''.Abu Bakr(may Allah be pleased with him) was passing by,moved with pity,he purchased and released him from slavery.

Another victim of the cruelty of Quraish was 'Ammar bin Yasir(RA),a freed slave of Bani Makhzum.He,along with his mother and father,embrased Islam in it's early phase.They were repeatedly made to lie on the burning sand and were beaten severely.

'Ammar was at times thrown on embers. Yasir(RA)the father,died because of repeated tortures.Sumaiyah(RA),'Ammar's mother was bayoneted to death by Abu Jahl himself,and thus merited the title of the first woman martyr in Islam.

'Ammar himself was subjected to various modes of torture and was always threatened to continuous severe suffering unless he abused Muhammed(pbuh) and made an open confession of error to Al-Lat and 'Uzza.

In a weak moment,he uttered a word interpreted as his withdraw though his heart never wavered,and he came back once to the Prophet(pbuh),who consoled him for his pain and confirmed his Faith.Immediately afterwards the following Verse was revealed:
''Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief,except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith'' 6:106

Khabbab bin Al-Aratt(RA),was the slave of Umm Anmar bint Saba Al-Khuza'iyah.He was also an easy victim to similar brutality on every possible occasion.He experienced exemplary torture and maltreatment.He would be taken by his hair,twisted by his neck and thrown into fire.Then they would drag him through the fire and not stop until his back would be burnt.

Even the women converts were not spared,and the list is too long to include all of them.Zanirah(RA),An-Nahdiyah(RA) and her daughter,Umm 'Ubais(RA) and many others had their full share of persecution at the hands of the oppressor-Umar bin Al-Khattab included-ofcourse before his conversion to Islam.

Abu Bakr(RA),a wealthy believer,purchased and freed some of those slaves,just as he did with regard to Bilal(RA).

The pegans would also throw some of the Companions into the animal enclosures and then drag them into the hot sun.They would put iron armor on some of them and throw them upon boulders to fry in the sun.No one would let his conversion to Islam be known about,except that he would have to undergo severe torture and suffering for the sake of Allah.

As for the Prophet(pbuh),it was not easy to harm him because he had such significant,nobility and matchless perfection of character that prevented even his enemies from committing any act of foolishness against him.He had,as well,Abu Talib,his uncle,who came from a noble descent and had a very great clan to support him.This situation was a source of great worry to the opressors/polytheists,but they felt that they could no longer exercise patience or show any tolerance before a frightening power marching steadily to cancel their religious office and worldly authority.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are so many,many,many more than these few examples.
These people went through far worse than that which is mentioned.
And I KNOW,they deserved to fight back and defend their beliefs and they have the RIGHT to uphold their religion.And what a crack up job they did.
Shame,today's muslims are weak and nowhere near the levels of character to these men and women.

So TWT,after knowing the facts,do you still believe Muhammed(pbuh) was just a ''conquerer'',greedy for power?
He wasn't a conquerer of land,he was a conquerer of hearts.And the polytheists could not beat that!

MRIH,you're an IDIOT,who has no clue.

Fullauto,you still haven't explained why we should ,''ALL HAIL ENKI''!

 

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

I never made any claims as to Mohammed's motivations. And, motivation aside, he most obviously was a conquerer. He obviously gained followers peacefully, but he also gained them through conquest. Would the Meccans have converted if he hadn't taken Mecca? Would there be as many Muslims in the surrounding areas if he hadn't taken them through conquest?

Do you think there would be as many Muslims even now if people weren't required by law in these countries to pay their respects to Mohammed and Allah? I'm thinking they would have a much more dilapidated religious environment, like we have here in the US. The mainstream would probably still go with Islam, that being the cultural norm there like Christianity is here. But a lot more people would be speaking their minds.

TWT,this is a record of what happened, from ''The sealed nectar''.I trust this source coz it is the most accurate and has been confirmed to be accurate.

Umm, just so you know, this says nothing about its accuracy. You haven't said HOW it's been confirmed accurate, so it's really kinda pointless to say it at all Though I don't have a reason to disbelieve it in this instance, it all sounds realistic enough.

 

[Master_Jaffer]

Why on earth should I "prove" this or anything else that has already been proven several times over? If you are too stupid to get it the first, second or even the third time... it it is your fault! Go do your own homework.

I really don't care about ancient history anyway. If Mohammed(may piss be upon him) was a conqueror or not is not really relevant to me. All the current islamic jihad against the west is what really pisses me off, and I think it is HIGH TIME that the west acknowledges this, and reciprocates with some major warfare against islam! (I can't wait to see Tehran fall just like Bagdad)... But the most glorious will be when that ****-hole Mecca is leveled flat and noone will be able to enter its stench for 30 to 40 years because of the extreamly high radiation eminating from its core!

Maybe we should point some V2's and V3's at the Vatican?

By the way, get your facts straight.

At the time of Mohammeds death, Medina was partially Muslim, Mecca was Muslim, and some of the SMALL surrounding tribes were Muslim. Mohammed's conquered (yes, conquered) Mecca when he was in his sixties, and he died around 63/64.
Only a tiny part of Saudi Arabia belonged to this "conquerer," probably not even 100 square miles.

All of the conquering in Islam came from his successors, the Khalifa. Namely Umar. Mohammed himself did very little conquering.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Maybe we should point some V2's and V3's at the Vatican?

I'm sure if you ****ing retards could, you would.

By the way, get your facts straight.

At the time of Mohammeds death, Medina was partially Muslim, Mecca was Muslim, and some of the SMALL surrounding tribes were Muslim. Mohammed's conquered (yes, conquered) Mecca when he was in his sixties, and he died around 63/64.
Only a tiny part of Saudi Arabia belonged to this "conquerer," probably not even 100 square miles.

Which fact is incorrect? Was the pedophile prophet(may piss be upon him) a conqueror or not? How many people must die and how much land seized before you become a "conqueror"... No MJ... you need to get YOUR facts straight!

All of the conquering in Islam came from his successors, the Khalifa. Namely Umar. Mohammed himself did very little conquering.

From the pedophile prophet(may piss be upon him) to Osama Bin Laden(may piss be upon him) not a moment's peace in between, your religion has been out waging war on something... Lucky for the rest of the civilized planet that your "religion" stifles education and technological advances, otherwise we'd all be paying the jitza-neetza tax, being converted, or being be-headed.

All hail ENKI, the god of islam!

 

[TerroristHater]

I'm sure if you ****ing retards could, you would.

Which fact is incorrect? Was the pedophile prophet(may piss be upon him) a conqueror or not? How many people must die and how much land seized before you become a "conqueror"... No MJ... you need to get YOUR facts straight!

From the pedophile prophet(may piss be upon him) to Osama Bin Laden(may piss be upon him) not a moment's peace in between, your religion has been out waging war on something... Lucky for the rest of the civilized planet that your "religion" stifles education and technological advances, otherwise we'd all be paying the jitza-neetza tax, being converted, or being be-headed.

All hail ENKI, the god of islam!

ENKI? ... isn't ENKI the god of chrome rims (the kind that go on rich people's cars?) and lugnuts and the like?

Also...

While there is evidence that Mohammad liked little girls, and even that he sexored a nine year-old girl, I should point out that only the extremist factions of Islam are known for continued warfare. The remenants of the Tailabn and Osama Bin Laden's goon squad are good examples of this.

Lets all be cool and work together to squash the extremists! Then we call all go have a nice BBQ.

!!!!!

\

 

[Crazywumbat]

I'm sure if you ****ing retards could, you would.

Which fact is incorrect? Was the pedophile prophet(may piss be upon him) a conqueror or not? How many people must die and how much land seized before you become a "conqueror"... No MJ... you need to get YOUR facts straight!

From the pedophile prophet(may piss be upon him) to Osama Bin Laden(may piss be upon him) not a moment's peace in between, your religion has been out waging war on something... Lucky for the rest of the civilized planet that your "religion" stifles education and technological advances, otherwise we'd all be paying the jitza-neetza tax, being converted, or being be-headed.

All hail ENKI, the god of islam!

You, my friend, are a ****ing retard. Firstly, why must you continue to use this pedophile bullshit as an argument? It's already been proven that your Christian ancestors married their children off before they were in their teens, and, to my knowledge atleast, the only religious figures in modern times that have committed acts of pedophilia have been Christian...so enough with that **** already. Secondly, most of the lands that was conquered by Muslims was filled with strife and war and had been for centuries UNTIL IT WAS CONQUERED BY THE MUSLIMS. Palestine is just one example, and Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived in PEACE there, along with many other areas, UNTIL you christians initiated the Crusades. Not a moment of peace inbetween? How retarded are you?

And, what the **** does ENKI have to do with anything? Firstly, you bring into the argument a figure that you COMPLETELY misenterperet, and then tie him to a religion that has absolutely NOTHING to do with him. Congratulations, you are a ****in dumbass.