The Army you have vs. The Army you want

[bart1123]

It's not a big secret that I'm on the left side of politics, much to the dismay of my father in law. But I'd like to ask for some opinions on Donald Rumsfeld's answer to the National Guardsman's question regarding armoring up their vehichles in the Middle East.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that every morning I hear about more U.S. Soldiers being killed by bombs, RPG's, or insergent (sp?) attacks. Seems to me that we've been in this thing now long enough that specific needs (like increased armor) have been identified and some action could've been taken.

Sec. Rumsfeld answer was in my opinion pathetic and to a degree insulting. He may as well have said "Look we didin't expect this to take this long and the plan we had isn't playing out the way we wanted. But hey that's not really our fault so get out there and quit your bitch'n!"
I'll admit that I wasn't a big fan of the war in Iraq, but once it happened I realized that the best thing to do was to support the troops. The Sec.'s answer doesn't really give the impression that the "powers that be" feel the same way.

I know I'm gonna get a load of crap from some of the extreme right by saying that the government isn't doing a perfect job and that they have made mistakes, but I look at some of the choices and statements that they have made and I just see a mediocre track record in this war and other foriegn policy. Just my opinion...what do you think?

Bart

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Bart,

I agree, it was not a well thought out answer. However, the answer was correct. The plain and simple truth is you do go to war with the army you have. Albeit I don't think it was an appropriate response to the question. The response (in hindsight) should have been "We are doing what is neccessary to get you the equipment you need."

I am one who does agree with this war. And I also seem to be the only one who recognizes the fact that the terrorists are now concentrating on Iraq instead of NYC, LA, Denver, etc. After this conflict has resolved itself and we set up a puppet government in Iraq we will have a nice Military presence right in the heart of "Terrorist Central", a.k.a. "the middle east".

 

[bart1123]

MRIH,
Thanks for your thoughts. I agree your response would've been much more appropirate and would've also helped many, myself included, believe that that the adminsitration is first and foremost interested the safety of the soliders.

I understand too that in war you don't get everything you want, and that you can't wait until you have it all before going to war. I heard an interview on the radio that said that after Viet Nam the U.S. military essientially "redesigned" the way they go to war, by using fast large force attacks to keep the chance for a "drawn out war" down to a minimum. The problem is that this war is lasting too long for that school of thought to be as effective as it has in the past and now they are having to improvise how this war is being fought. In my opinon it would've been nice to hear that from a member of the administration rather than a consultant working in the Pentagon.

I'm interested too...do you feel like once the conflict is resolved and a new government, puppet or otherwise, is in place that the terrorists will once again focus on the U.S. and other Countries? Or will our presence in the Middle East be enough of a deterant to keep attacks like 9/11 from happening again.

Thanks
Bart

 

[Sves]

I dont tinks its going to take till Iraq is over for an attack to happen in the US again. The rag heads attacking us in Iraq cant get us here cause they have no money too. They are poor merchants with an AK. And its easy to get away with it there. Im sure there are sleeper cells all over in america just waiting for another plan to hit us again. Hate is learned! and there will keep preaching their hate of the US.
I think kerry was right when he said that we will never totally end terrison, just reduce it to a minor threat. There has always been and will always be terrorism. Ist the balance of yin and yang. Sorry folks but a stable Iraq (middle east for that matter) isnt going to change a thing. It might quite down for a while.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

I dont tinks its going to take till Iraq is over for an attack to happen in the US again.

any evidence? or is this your conjecture?

The rag heads attacking us in Iraq cant get us here cause they have no money too. They are poor merchants with an AK. And its easy to get away with it there.

They can't get to us, because they're busy in Iraq. And after this thing is over we're gonna have a nice huge military presence right in the heart of terrorist central (Middle East).

Im sure there are sleeper cells all over in america just waiting for another plan to hit us again.

more conjecture.

Hate is learned! and there will keep preaching their hate of the US.

That's because Islam is Evil.

I think kerry was right when he said that we will never totally end terrison, just reduce it to a minor threat.

I agree.

There has always been and will always be terrorism. Ist the balance of yin and yang. Sorry folks but a stable Iraq (middle east for that matter) isnt going to change a thing. It might quite down for a while.

I disagree.

 

[Outlaw2747]

I am in the army and all and I STILL do not know the true purpose behind this ridiculous conflict. I think there is more to it than just the WAR ON TERRORISM and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

But good question, what will a democracy in Iraq do for the world? What effect will it have? And why in the **** are we trying to turn everyone into a damn democracy? What right do we have to be changing people way of life?

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

2 things, Outlaw...

1) The focus of Al-Queda is now Iraq, not NYC...

2) We are setting up a puppet government so we'll have a signifucant presence right in the heart of terrorist central.

Both of these are good. This conflict is anything but "ridiculous".

 

[afghan2005]

They are taking the oil and giving us excuses. Thats whats really going on. Its all about the money and power. Why the **** would someone want to go spread democracy LOL.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Only a simple-minded retard would think the Iraq conflict is all about oil. Sure the spoils of war will be oil. But please, try to think outside of your Queens NY mind-set.

 

[afghan2005]

ok fine there there to setup a barrier between the muslim world and isreal the oil is just there to keep their tanks charged up, also since the usa is already ****ed for doing bad things, to bring the "people they pissed off" the "terrorists" to go there instead. Which is a pretty good idea at this point. But i still hate white people! especially jews and i especially don't like u!

i did learn in economics from the professor first hand that oil depeletion in the world is certainly one aspect of the war though.

and ur right **** mohammed and allah and jesus christ and all those other people that cause the people in this lifetime to kill eachother.

 

[pilgrimx]

Typical stupid ignorant ****ing Americans.

 

[RedNeckKiller]

Typical stupid ignorant ****ing Americans.

only one thing I can say to that.........DITTO!!

 

[anarchyintheuk]

Same Here, DITTO!!!

 

[snafu]

I am one who does agree with this war. And I also seem to be the only one who recognizes the fact that the terrorists are now concentrating on Iraq instead of NYC, LA, Denver, etc. After this conflict has resolved itself and we set up a puppet government in Iraq we will have a nice Military presence right in the heart of "Terrorist Central", a.k.a. "the middle east".

I have to agree with M.R.I.H. The benift of oil, freeing an oppressed nation, making sure there where no WMD's where all great reasons to attack Iraq.
Saddam gave us right passage by not abiding by the resolutions set down by the U.N.

But the biggest asset we got was a foot hold in that region. A PERMINT Base!! yes I think we'll be there for a long long time!

Then we can recruit some Iraq instergants to infeltrate Iran and other Muslim Nations, we can gather the intelagence we need to secure the region.
No war can be won without proper intelagence.

 

[Rot_in_hell_American_scum]

it sounds all to easy doesnt it? but has anyone of you, thought about the soliders who are away from there families, and everyone who has been affected by this, mothers, wives, husbands, fathers, children, its not easy being away from your loved ones, espically hearing about them getting hurt, or possibly killed, these soliders are defending your country, even if it means invading another. they deserve all the credit, not bush!!!

also mrih, sorry i disagree with you saying that al qeada is busy in Iraq,
they dont just have supporters there, they are everywhere, all around the world, and if it doesnt happen in America it can happen in any country contruibiting to this war, alot of lives have been losted in Iraq, images of tortured prsioners so on and so forth, you think this isnt gunna piss off the muslims? and start another attack, then what, leave iraq and start somewhere else, terrorism will never end. My opinion is that, by invading an arab country its just going to agitate them and spark more attacks on America. Leave them alone, and then you'll be left alone.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

it sounds all to easy doesnt it? but has anyone of you, thought about the soliders who are away from there families, and everyone who has been affected by this, mothers, wives, husbands, fathers, children, its not easy being away from your loved ones, espically hearing about them getting hurt, or possibly killed, these soliders are defending your country, even if it means invading another. they deserve all the credit, not bush!!!

RIHAS, as usual you state pointless dirivel. What is your point here? Is it that Bush has nothing to do with Iraq or is it that our troops are doing good, bad, or what? Maybe that the insurgents deserve no credit at all for anything. It's hard to tell.

also mrih, sorry i disagree with you saying that al qeada is busy in Iraq,
they dont just have supporters there, they are everywhere, all around the world, and if it doesnt happen in America it can happen in any country contruibiting to this war

nd I'm sure it eventually will, but in the mean time it seems to me that all of your terrorist buddies are concentrating on Iraq,

alot of lives have been losted in Iraq,

mostly insurgents.

images of tortured prsioners so on and so forth, you think this isnt gunna piss off the muslims?

yeah, right.. it is SOOO much worse now than under the baathists and sadaam. The Iraqis are still overwelmingly glad we are there! It's just the islamist's like you who are upset about it. Tell me, What do you care about Iraq anyway? Are you an Iraqi yourself?

and start another attack, then what, leave iraq and start somewhere else, terrorism will never end.

Once the world figures out that islam is a terrorist organization and NOT a religion, the civilized people of earth will simply nuke mecca and medina, They will demonize and stigmatize those still practising this satanic cult and the world will be safe once again.

My opinion is that, by invading an arab country its just going to agitate them and spark more attacks on America. Leave them alone, and then you'll be left alone.

cough, wheeze, cough islam has been on the aggresive warpath since it's inception, islam will not rest until it is defeated! Even if islam takes over the whole world, it will not rest. The different factions of islam will continue to war on each other. It is a violent and war-prone ideology that must end!

 

[Master_Jaffer]

That's because Islam is Evil.

That's just a personal opinion.

islam has been on the aggresive warpath since it's inception, islam will not rest until it is defeated! Even if islam takes over the whole world, it will not rest. The different factions of islam will continue to war on each other. It is a violent and war-prone ideology that must end!

Rofl. You give applause when people provide proof, so lets see your proof.

Once the world figures out that islam is a terrorist organization and NOT a religion, the civilized people of earth will simply nuke mecca and medina, They will demonize and stigmatize those still practising this satanic cult and the world will be safe once again.

Once the world figures out that Islam means peace and that these attacks are from mainly the ****'ite minority who has been agitated by America. Once the world figures out the Allah is the same as the Christian and Jewish God, sans a few traits. Once the world figures out that Mohammed was a true and the last prophet. Once the world...

 

[Rockhard]

T'is also about weapons all the things it takes to run a war there is actually more money made from arms than from oil. check and see who owns the major suppliers of arms for both sides. You need to check on the banks that were one conglomerate during ww two. The european branch supplied hitler and the american branch the allies. This why our founding fathers were against a central banking system. Why are we paying some one to print our money when we have our own mints. The so called federal reserve bank has nothing to do with our govt. It is a privately owned bank. Guess i should be worried JFK suggested this change and he was assinated

 

[snafu]

Posted by Bart1123
It's not a big secret that I'm on the left side of politics, much to the dismay of my father in law. But I'd like to ask for some opinions on Donald Rumsfeld's answer to the National Guardsman's question regarding armoring up their vehichles in the Middle East.

It was the left that voted not to give amour or finance our Military. As usual.
Don

 

[fullauto]

First off.... SNAFU, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters to read! Not afraid to tell it straight... no matter how ****ed it sounds.... very admirable...speak your mind! not your TV issued oppinion.

Second - this will probably **** with you a bit but you have to realize that all that happens in the world is not free for all to see... You have to look very deep into history to find out about modern motivations!
I'm just going to lay out some facts for ya and hope that you figure it out on your own or that you direct questions to me because the whole thing is bigger than Micheal Jacksons **** at a childrens party!

Iraq is Mesopotamia but is it also "the garden of E.Din (Edin)
The people who lived there were Sumerian's
They spoke of Gods (yes Pural) that walked the earth
there were two main gods.... En.Lil and En.Ki
They were leaders of a race of (?) called Anunnaki
They came here for the purpose of mining gold in c.450,000 BC
At c.200,000 BC, En.Ki (the scientist who's symbol was the snake) genetically engineered homoerectus for the purposes of slave labor in the mines in south eastern Africa, where he was put in charge[Gen 1:26 And god said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness]...They were called 'the black-headed people' and the first one to be born was called Adamu (adam) and was moved to the En.Lil's garden in E.Din for the purposes of tending his garden...But man's life span was not long enough for En.Ki to keep 'manufacturing' them for the purposes of labor... he could not keep up with demand...Without En.Lil's blessing, he decided to gentically engineer a female for adam that was able to reproduce... [Gen 2:21 And the lord god caused a deep sleep to fall upon Admn, and he slept: and he too one of his ribss, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; and the rib, which the lord god had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man]
En.Lil's major concern was that man would reproduce and become a 'new life' rather than the slave labor we were intended to be... But En.Ki was not so concerned...He was a big fan of man and watched with enthusiasm as he learned and loved...En.Ki (who's symbol was the snake, which in AKadian is hanash [snake/wise/leared one]) travelled up to the garden of E.Din and showed man how to procreate... This is symbolized as the SNAKE convincing eve to 'eat from the tree of knowledge'... To this day, in hebrew, to know = to have intercoarse... This is the part that I will have to abridge much, but I will give you all the neccessary points to shoot you in the right direction concerning this post...En.Ki showed man how to procreate by doing the deed himself... Cain, the first born of Eve was not Adam's child... He was a hybrid of En.ki and eve...[Gen 4:1 And Adam [knew] his wife and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I HAV GOTTEN A MAN FROM THE LORD]
Then Adam [knew] eve again and this time she begat Abel... The two were brothers, but why did En.Lil grow suspect of Cains offerings?! [Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect]...
The reason is En.Lil and En.Ki had a bitter rivalry from the day they were born... They both had the same father, Anu, the King of thier home planet, but different mothers... En.Ki was the first born of the two but was born to a woman other than Anu's wife... And En.Lil was born second but to Anu's wife and there by the legitimate heir to the thrown... En.Ki was furious because though he was not a child of the legitimate wife of the king, his mother was of more 'divine percentage' than En.Lil's mother and he felt as though he should be the heir apparent... His father also felt this way because he describes En.Lil as selfish, Blind with power and less educated... But, Like many women on earth too, his wife bitched and moaned untill her son was given heirship... This 'divine percentage' thing is relevant later on in the story so remember it! So that is why Cain was not trusted by God (En.Lil).. Adam and eve eventually knew again and had Seth (which means replacement) and they began to multiply... Cain, whom was bannished to Nod began to multiply also...These two 'factions' of man worshipped En.Lil and En.Ki respectively... and there was much bad blood between them that acounted for the many wars in the region...En.Ki was entually summoned to Council with the other 11 gods including En.Lil where En.Lil anounced that the return of thier home world Nibiru was going to have some strong gravitational effects on earth as it passed Between it and Mars... This effect would shift the already weakend Ice cap off of the south pole and cause a huge wave to wash over the earth... En.Lil announced his intentions to let the wave wash man and his evil off the planet (knowing that it will kill all of the Cainites). En.Ki protested because he was a fan of his creation, even the ones that didn't worship him... He didn't see why man should be punished for the Annunaki's discrepancies... En.Ki was eventually made to promise not to tell any man of the flood... But En.Ki was not going to let man die... A while back, he had [known] lamech's wife whom had given birth to Ziusudra, But known in the bible as Noah... Now Noah had been known to be different from the day he was born when Lamech first saw him... He was described as not looking like any other man with his white skin and blue eyes... He was the son of En.Ki... and this is more indications of the Divine percentage... [Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS, AND NOAH WALKED WITH GOD] ... I cannot find the passage of his birth so if you do any looking into it and find it, please post it... En.Ki told Noah of the coming calamity and gave him plans for a ship that could withstand the battering of heavy waves... It was a tidal wave that washed over the land and flooded it not the rain... the rain came after as effect of the changeing climate were felt...What ziusudra put on the boat was the seed of every creature... not the creatures themselves... En.Ki, being the cheif scientist of the planet had been working with these things since they had arrived and gave the seed to Ziusudra...You know how to fill this in....

When the calamity was over... The Anunnaki landed back on earth and En.Lil was furious...En.Ki explained that if man was so insightful to know what the gods knew, they were worth keeping.... En.Lil, thinking that the flood had killed all of the Cainites agrees thinking that the world would be filled with his followers... Noah had Ham, Shem, and Japeth... and they went out and settled the world... I won't go into the racial makeup and lineage for obvious reasons, but Anu was tired of dealing with the En.Ki/En.lil problem and divided up the land between the two... for the most part En.Ki got Africa (Apsu, later to be called hell by Xtians) and En.Lil got everything east and north of the Sinai Including Sumer (Sumeria or Shin'ar in the bible; I have to say this for reason known later in the story--> The First Reich)...En.Ki had a son named Marduk and he and En.Ki set about to build Egypt into a civilization to rival his brothers.... They built Huge pyramids and Gold was brought up from the mines in the Apsu and when the City was completed Marduk took the name Ra and became the God to all in Egypt (The Second Reich)... His farther En.Ki, by now getting a little long in the tooth, took the name Horus... Remember that... Horus! This is also very abridged... Eventually Ra took it upon himself to take back the heirship that his father was denied.... He raised an army and marched toward What is now Israel (which strangly means 'conflicts with god').. En.Lil, realizing that once through the gates at Jerico, Ra would have control over the only spaceport (yes, spaceport) left on earth and summoned Abram from Sumer to raise an army to stop him...the Ra army was subsisted by two 'sinner' cities in the land of Canaan... The help from these cities led to the defeat of En.Lil's last resort army... En.Lil authorized the use of Nuclear Weapons on Jericho, where the army was, and the errant cities of Sodom and Gomorrah... 'And Gabriel's Horn Blew' ... The fighting did not stop there though... many years later serveral million Jews were enslaved in Egypt... This is where En.Ki gets the reputation of being a sly snake... During the whole book of Exodus, it seems like God has Multiple personality disorder... The reason is it is not 1 god whom is speaking to Moses... This is one of the few times that En.Ki and En.lil actually agree... En.Ki (Horus) tells Moses to throw a stick that turns into a snake and 'they will know your divine nature'... En.ki is trusting that the decendants of Ra (marduk) will recognize the symbolism of the snake and listen whole heartedly... When that peaceful (En.Ki) measure doesn't work, En.lil Unleashes the plagues on them... People respect strength more than Intellect, and the jews are set free.... But En.Lil, selfish ***** as described by his own father, sends the jews on a 40 year trek hunting down and killing the Shemite decendants of Noah... It is obvious who they are because Shem inherited the Light skinned, Blue eyes BS gene Noah had... En.Ki is Furious... He tries to gain the respect of the Jews on thier way to mount Ararat and goes a long way toward a truce of sorts, then the personallity split happens... God (En.lil) asks Moses to kill his son... This type of Fear tactic is what makes the jews make a covenant with En.lil...

Continued on next post!