Tossing Blame

[tizz]

It is not that I don't understand that certain interpretations of Islam teaching are what lead to all of this but to create mass fear and hate of all muslims is not goingto do any good. Neither is invading entire countries or destroying every muslim. All that will do is create more hate from other groups that feel what we are doing is wrong. If more civilians are killed them more are gonna get pissed at our big stick diplomacy and the US is going to end up spending the rest of it's days as a world power at war. It is simple logic. Pretty soon teh IRA is going to make a connection to what teh islamic radicals are pissed at and though they may not join them they will end up launching their own crap. Our cultural arrogance and insistance on bringing the entire world into our own economy and plopping our gas guzzlers and biggie size it fast food death traps into every country around the earth is not helping. Neither is being dependant on so many other nations for natural resources or supporting assholes like Sharon in israel. The US has this awful habit as well of cr4eating it's own enemies by recruting some nasty ****ers to fight our battles simply because they are fighting our enemies. There is a LOT that can can as we fight this war on terroror, that will at least help the world see us in a new light. If we don't change things then we are going to be searching our new terrorist everyday and each group is going to learn from that last ones mistakes and they will just get stronger and better and end up kicking our asses!!!!


Aside from that, we are fighting a war where we can't tell the difference between our enemy and our ally. How can our troups tel which person in the middle east is a terrorist and which is not? Same problem as vietnam. We are very likely not going to win a war with terrorist. Simply because we will never find them all.

 

[Jhony5]

Our cultural arrogance and insistance into bringing the entire world into our own economy and plopping our gas guzzlers and biggie size it fast food death traps into every country around the earth is not helping.

You keep making statements like this and I find it amusing. America does not force our free enterprize system on anyone. Different cultures around the world have long pursued our free rolling consumer driven way of life.
Your villanizing America for its success.

How can our troops tell which person in the middle east is a terrorist and which is not?

Bingo! This is where the burdon is shifting towards Islam to pro-actively remove terrorism from there countries. If they can not do this then the US will be forced subject their countries to the same unfortunate circumstances as Iraq.
Islams inability to take action and seperate themselves from 'radicals' is squarely on them. Remember, we are at war with radical Islam. They declared it. We are just following suite.

 

[Crazywumbat]

Bingo! This is where the burdon is shifting towards Islam to pro-actively remove terrorism from there countries. If they can not do this then the US will be forced subject their countries to the same unfortunate circumstances as Iraq.
Islams inability to take action and seperate themselves from 'radicals' is squarely on them. Remember, we are at war with radical Islam. They declared it. We are just following suite.

I already said this, but Fullauto was the only person who responded to it.

Since you obviously don't have much sympathy for the innocents who get in the way because they haven't seperated themselves enough from the "enemy", what about the poor ****ing soldier who finds out the person he just shot in the head wasn't a terrorist, but a 15 year old girl who happened to be in the wrong place at an extremely unfortunate time? War effects the mind of the soldiers just as much as the people who are killed, most of the members on this board look at war in an extremely uninformed way, not thinking at all what consequences it might have, especially for the side they are rooting for.

Errmm don't think this is directed specifically towards you Jhony, just that last post of yours prompted me to post it.

 

[Msixty]

How can our troops tell which person in the middle east is a terrorist and which is not?

you want to see how the troops have it? set up a 'kill house' and for the targets, get all matching identical 'civilian' cardboard pop ups, then, put a toy gun BEHIND some 'civilian' cutouts where you can't see it, now have a friend set them up randomly, running through this 'kill house' will give you the idea of what the troops do every day, lets see how many you can get right. happy hunting

 

[tizz]

you want to see how the troops have it? set up a 'kill house' and for the targets, get all matching identical 'civilian' cardboard pop ups, then, put a toy gun BEHIND some 'civilian' cutouts where you can't see it, now have a friend set them up randomly, running through this 'kill house' will give you the idea of what the troops do every day, lets see how many you can get right. happy hunting

DUH!! That is what I was saying. We cannot fight terrorist in a any conventional way nor can we fight insurgents in any conventional way. Vietnam proved that. When you can't tell your friend from foe you need to get creative, not just more agressive. Bigger bombs won't help.

 

[Jhony5]

I already said this, but Fullauto was the only person who responded to it.

Since you obviously don't have much sympathy for the innocents who get in the way because they haven't seperated themselves enough from the "enemy", what about the poor ****ing soldier who finds out the person he just shot in the head wasn't a terrorist, but a 15 year old girl who happened to be in the wrong place at an extremely unfortunate time? War effects the mind of the soldiers just as much as the people who are killed, most of the members on this board look at war in an extremely uninformed way, not thinking at all what consequences it might have, especially for the side they are rooting for.

Your right, it does plague the mind when a soldier 'accidentaly' kills a non-combatent. My dad was a medic in the green berets in Vietnam. He has told me stories of these occurances. This is why the soldiers in nam would be very aggresive when entering a village. They didn't even want the children to get close from fear of them lobbing a grenade at them.
For a soldier in Iraq to put to much consideration towards not harming innocents, would put his own life in jeopardy. The numbers however show that Iraqi insurgency has claimed way more civilian life then the American military. They are doing it alomost every single day. Setting off road side bombs in the off chance that it will kill Iraqi police or American/Iraqi soldiers. Usually the dead are primarily civilians.

 

[Msixty]

Vietnam proved that..

and lets hope to god we don't add to it by spitting on the troops for shooting a civilian on accident, Vietnam also proved what that can do

Bigger bombs won't help.

but strategically placed small units in the city will, well, that and painting the caves with napalm.

 

[tizz]

Ya unless your intel was wrong and that small bomb in a city blows teh crap out of an inocent family. Lets get creative here folks.

And yes, unfortunately small minds are unwilling to explore the possiblity that troops do thing uder orders, under stress and as a means of getting home in one piece not to mention outr of fear and having no clue who might try to blow your face off. A soldier has to do what he has to do and it should be the ressponsibility of of the CO to keep an eye out for someone who may be going over the edge who MIGHT just do the unthinkable. I have met quite a few vets who can never quite make it back to this world because of what they experienced and did during war. I cannot even imagine and tend to get sick when I try.

 

[Msixty]

Ya unless your intel was wrong and that small bomb in a city blows teh crap out of an inocent family.

i said small units dip **** units, as in soldiers

 

[tizz]

Sorry I thought you meant bombs, i was in another forum and someone was using "unit" for bomb and it stuck in my head. My bad

 

[Msixty]

Sorry I thought you meant bombs, i was in another forum and someone was using "unit" for bomb and it stuck in my head. My bad

oh, ok, i get it, anyway, i do agree with you though, bombs are way too messy to be using in a highly populated environment at this point

 

[Crazywumbat]

If used in the right way, simple politics could be far more devastating to these terrorists than any weapon we could fathom using. And with almost no casualties.

 

[tizz]

More like simple economics

 

[Msixty]

If used in the right way, simple politics could be far more devastating to these terrorists than any weapon we could fathom using. And with almost no casualties.

the problem with that is, politics is harder to control than a bomb, and politicians are easily given 'bought opinions' and that can result in unimaginable body counts on each side

 

[Jhony5]

oh, ok, i get it, anyway, i do agree with you though, bombs are way too messy to be using in a highly populated environment at this point

Carpet bombing muslim populations is not the answer. Getting Isreal out of Palastinian territory would do alot towards building trust with the muslim world in general. The situation there serves as a microcosm of radical Islam vs. the west.

 

[Msixty]

Getting Isreal out of Palastinian territory would do alot towards building trust with the muslim world in general.

NO they will get worse, because they will see it as an intrusion, and we will have terrorists from Israel on our ass

 

[Jhony5]

NO they will get worse, because they will see it as an intrusion, and we will have terrorists from Israel on our ass

Jews are too worried about the cost of materials involved in bombing muslims. They prefere to fire cheap bullets blindly into crowds.
America has to make some concessions in this area. We can't just stand there with our big guns making demands without diplomacy. As was mentioned by fullauto, the situation in Palastine has long spurred jihad against the west because we, diplomaticly, seem to side with the jews. Destroy this perception and it will go a long way towards building trust with muslims. Remeber, Religion is primary in these cultures. Our actions, no matter what the means of conveyance, are always seen by muslims as religiously motivated.

 

[Msixty]

but then we piss off the Jews, and were back at square one

 

[Jhony5]

but then we piss off the Jews, and were back at square one

Your not following me here. The damn Jews are far apart from the palastinians. America is seen as a villian by much of the muslim world because we cater to the jews.
Here are the facts. Isreal treats the palastinians like garbage, killing them on a whim. America supports Isreal, big time. The US gives 13% of our entire foreign military aid to Isreal. To the tune of 3.7 billion dollars annualy. Again, this is the primary reason why we are at war with muslims, or should I say why the muslims are at war with us. The G8 has just approved $9 billion dollars to go to palastine. A good start, but we must do more than just cut a check. We must condemn Isreal for their actions, which has never been done before.
When has terrorisim been utilized by the jews? Your way off, buddy.
Terrorism has its roots in palastine, and in the 'root' lies the problem.

 

[Crispy Critter]

OK crispytouching post but I was not talking about Quwait or iraq or saddam here. I was talking about terrorism. It has not nationality, it has no religion. It exists world wide and has for members people of every religion and race. Terror is not exclusive to islamic extremists. It is a plague of hate that is taking over the world like a giant swarm of locusts. It is not new it has just gotten bigger and badder (probably do to technology and teh ease of comunication and teh availability of better weapons). It is not a problem exclusive to western industrialized nations nor is it confined to the middle east. (HELLO PEOPLE HAVE YOU NOT HEARD OF NORTHERN IRELAND?) It acts to breed fear and hate and even greater and broader acts of terrorism. Retaliation haas done nothing but fan the flames. Giving in is out of the question. You could Nuke em if you could find em or if it was confined to one place but in order to destroy all terrorism you wwould pretty much have to nuke every nation on earth. Right now we are fighting fire with fire and in all the wrong places and so far it has just led to bigger badder attacks. So what next? Would it not be logical to look at teh source of the hate and work from there? Is it possible that if you work to diminish teh hate you can diminish the terror? Sure you could say no, but has anyone ever tried it? Have you got a better idea?

So are we a christain nation with moral base or secular like the French. They adoped "the terror" to punish their own citizens. Break the glass in the chruch and kill the preists and go with people's rights but in this secular world of bombers (BBC) v. terrorrist GW Bush then the terror is within. So kill "the terror" all of those who don't agree...http://www.napoleonguide.com/revolt.htm The Terror was unleashed and on 21 September the Republic of France was announced.... Are we dealing with the terror from Islam?