Uncle Sam's Plantation

[ImWithStupid]

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/hX864fXR1A0?feature=oembed

 

[jokersarewild]

Bender, I can't believe how uninformed you are in almost every discussion.

Sticks and carrots.

The Government uses a a series of incentives and penalties to control the doctors and lead them by the nose to a desired outcome. By telling doctors that they will get paid more money if they "CONFORM" to the specific treatments to save the Government money, then the doctors are no longer going to be doing what is the best for the patient but instead will be doing what is best for their bank accounts.

Control the money, control the industry, and the socialists/progressives have taken control of the money.

I've taken control of nothing. Wish I had though. Sounds like a great deal for us.

Can you cite a source? You too, IWS. I can't seem to find a thing about this panel that decides treatments for illnesses. I would like to read about it and see what's what.

 

[phreakwars]

Bender, I can't believe how uninformed you are in almost every discussion.

Sticks and carrots.

The Government uses a a series of incentives and penalties to control the doctors and lead them by the nose to a desired outcome. By telling doctors that they will get paid more money if they "CONFORM" to the specific treatments to save the Government money, then the doctors are no longer going to be doing what is the best for the patient but instead will be doing what is best for their bank accounts.

Control the money, control the industry, and the socialists/progressives have taken control of the money.

I've taken control of nothing. Wish I had though. Sounds like a great deal for us.

Can you cite a source? You too, IWS. I can't seem to find a thing about this panel that decides treatments for illnesses. I would like to read about it and see what's what.

Of course not. It's all part of the new trend in "white oppression" that'***** America.
Were being indoctrinated, the Dr.'s are being told what to do, this horror, that horror, ohhh how the people are being oppressed and need to take their country back.... whoaaa is me a black man's in office, and all that.

.

.

 

[ImWithStupid]

I've taken control of nothing. Wish I had though. Sounds like a great deal for us.

Can you cite a source? You too, IWS. I can't seem to find a thing about this panel that decides treatments for illnesses. I would like to read about it and see what's what.

Of course not. It's all part of the new trend in "white oppression" that'***** America.
Were being indoctrinated, the Dr.'s are being told what to do, this horror, that horror, ohhh how the people are being oppressed and need to take their country back.... whoaaa is me a black man's in office, and all that.

.

.

If any of that is what you have gotten from any of what has been been posted on this thread, you are very well uninformed. It has nothing to do with what is being done to a "white" person.

Nice try to spin the subject.

Right along the progressive line.

 

[jokersarewild]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

 

[hugo]

'Death panel' is not in the bill... it already exists

By Joseph AshbyFormer Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin has come under fire for her Facebook post accusing President Obama and the Democrats of including a "death panel" provision the health care bill. The Associated Press recently ran a ‘Fact Check' article rebutting Palin's claim.

AP argues that the bill's end-of-life counseling provision has been mistaken as a promotion of euthanasia and thus the death panel assertion by Palin and many other conservatives is false and misleading.

The New York Times has joined in the death panel bashing. Jim Rutenburg and Jackie Calmes assert the following:

There is nothing in any of the legislative proposals that would call for the creation of death panels or any other governmental body that would cut off care for the critically ill as a cost-cutting measure.

The AP is technically correct in stating that end-of-life counseling is not the same as a death panel. The New York Times is also correct to point out that the health care bill contains no provision setting up such a panel.

What both outlets fail to point out is that the panel already exists.

H.R. 1 (more commonly known as the Recovery and Reinvestment Act, even more commonly known as the Stimulus Bill and aptly dubbed the Porkulus Bill) contains a whopping $1.1 billion to fund the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The Council is the brain child of former Health and Human Services Secretary Nominee Tom Daschle. Before the Porkulus Bill passed, Betsy McCaughey, former Lieutenant governor of New York, wrote in detail about the Council's purpose.

Daschle's stated purpose (and therefore President Obama's purpose) for creating the Council is to empower an unelected bureaucracy to make the hard decisions about health care rationing that elected politicians are politically unable to make. The end result is to slow costly medical advancement and consumption. Daschle argues that Americans ought to be more like Europeans who passively accept "hopeless diagnoses."

McCaughey goes on to explain:

Daschle says health-care reform "will not be pain free." Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.

Who is on the Council? One of its most prominent members is none other than Dr. Death himself Ezekiel Emanuel. Dr. Emanuel's views on care of the elderly should frighten anyone who is or ever plans on being old. He explains the logic behind his discriminatory views on elderly care as follows:

Unlike allocation by *** or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years.

On average 25-year-olds require very few medical services. If they are to get the lion's share of the treatment, then those 65 and over can expect very little care. Dr. Emanuel's views on saving money on medical care are simple: don't provide any medical care. The loosely worded provisions in H.R 1 give him and his Council increasing power to push such recommendations.

Similarly hazy language will no doubt be used in the health care bill. What may pass as a 1,000 page health care law will explode into perhaps many thousands of pages of regulatory codes. The deliberate vagueness will give regulators tremendous leverage to interpret its provisions. Thus Obama's Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein will play a major role in defining the government's role in controlling medical care.

How does Sunstein approach end of life care? In 2003 he wrote a paper for the AEI-Brookings Joint Center for Regulatory Studies arguing that human life varies in value. Specifically he champions statistical methods that give preference to what the government rates as "quality-adjusted life years." Meaning, the government decides whether a person's life is worth living. If the government decides the life is not worth living, it is the individual's duty to die to free up welfare payments for the young and productive.

Ultimately it was Obama himself, in answer to a question on his ABC News infomercial, who said that payment determination cannot be influenced by a person's spirit and "that at least we (the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research) can let doctors know and your mom know that...this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

Maybe we should ask the Associated Press and New York Times if they still think we shouldn't be concerned about a federal "death panel."

Where in the Constitution is the federal government empowered to force individuals to buy a product from a private company? Where in the Constitution is the federal government empowered to decide who lives and who dies?

 

[ImWithStupid]

View attachment 2756

 

[phreakwars]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

You NEVER will see a source, because it's made up boogey man BS. .

.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

You NEVER will see a source, because it's made up boogey man BS. .

.

That's funny because, just as Hugo posted a couple posts back and I did so many times in other threads, so declined to continually re-educate people in this one, it was in the stimulus bill. First step in Daschle's plan.

Not even Democrats are denying the board was established. Catch up.

 

[phreakwars]

What page? I wanna read it myself.

Until you can produce it, it doesn't exist.. PERIOD.

.

.

 

[jokersarewild]

I'm with Phreak on this one. I want to read the law myself. Granted, it would be amusing if it already existed. But until I can read it for myself, I believe NOTHING.

 

[timesjoke]

Until you can produce it, it doesn't exist.. PERIOD.

.

.

The progressive crutch, bury your head in the sand and pretend things don't exist just because you have forced yourself not to see it.

Hugo showed you a great example and in the new bill there are advisory boards and incentive measures in place to control what services will be done and those that will not, I know you have the ability to understand the sticks and carrots example, your just choosing not to for the sake of defending the undefendable.

Bender, how about you answer my question instead of dodging it over and over again, we both know Obama included a special exclusion for all Unions to escape the big new taxes on their insurance policies that 95% of Americans are subject to. How exactly did that gift to the Unuions help America?

Or was that a payoff to the Unions for their political support?

This is a great healthcare bill question but you have dodged it like 12 times now, why is this question so painful you refuse to answer it?

 

[phreakwars]

Until you can produce it, it doesn't exist.. PERIOD.

.

.

The progressive crutch, bury your head in the sand and pretend things don't exist just because you have forced yourself not to see it.

So show me which page of which document I can find it on. Wanna place a BAN bet on it? Bet ya a 30 day BAN you CAN'T find any document whatsoever that has been signed into law to back up you boogeyman claim... common TJ, take my bet.

Hugo showed you a great example and in the new bill there are advisory boards and incentive measures in place to control what services will be done and those that will not, I know you have the ability to understand the sticks and carrots example, your just choosing not to for the sake of defending the undefendable.

You call THAT an example? Then show me the wording in the actual bill, not someones interpretation of something made up

Bender, how about you answer my question instead of dodging it over and over again.

What, that tax break for the unions, what about it?

Or was that a payoff to the Unions for their political support?

Unions are made up mainly of Republican voters, but, your too ignorant to accept that truth, so, believe what you want.

This is a great healthcare bill question but you have dodged it like 12 times now, why is this question so painful you refuse to answer it?

I told you, I haven't dodged anything, I simply skip your posts when you start in with your lame *** "MARXIST, LIBERALS, SOCIALISM" ****.
That's old as **** and a worn out argument. You have no idea what socialism even is but your good at parroting that talking point, you also have no idea on what Marx's work was about, so another parroted boring talking point. Like anybody wants to read that **** over and over.

Just like your dumb *** use of the word "progressive". ****, your too dumb to know the difference. There are only about a dozen or so actual progressives in Washington. Mainly the house, and only 1 in the senate.. Bet you can't even tell me who that one lone progressive senator is.

Another fine example of being too stupid to realize how stupid you are.

Of course, your probably now gonna come back with "BUT YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION" even though it is perfectly clear that I have,

So I'll say it again, in reference to your ***** about the unions getting a deal with health care...

IT'S A TAX BREAK, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST TAX BREAKS, DON'T GIVE ME THAT **** THAT IT ISN'T FAIR THEY GET ONE AND OTHERS DON'T BECAUSE YOUR THE SAME MORON WHO WANTS TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH

THERE IS YOUR ******* ANSWER.

.

.

 

[timesjoke]

So show me which page of which document I can find it on. Wanna place a BAN bet on it? Bet ya a 30 day BAN you CAN'T find any document whatsoever that has been signed into law to back up you boogeyman claim... common TJ, take my bet.

You call THAT an example? Then show me the wording in the actual bill, not someones interpretation of something made up

Like you would ever ban yourself, your such a child sometimes.

Being as the progressives who voted this thing into law without ever reading it don't care, why do you? Blind trust in your chosen messiah? There is not a single line in that monster that openly says there will be a 'death panel' but it does say there will be panels who will oversee medical treatments. It is not the rules that will directly ration care, it is the people using the new rules that will do that, people like Donald Berwick who has already said there must be rationed care.

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

What, that tax break for the unions, what about it?

So now you admit it was a tax break, that is a good start, now can you try answering the actual question as to what this tax break special deal for Unions did to help all Americans? Why was it part of Obama's healchare reform plan?

Unions are made up mainly of Republican voters, but, your too ignorant to accept that truth, so, believe what you want.

You have clearly lost your mind.

New data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) show that a majority of American union members now work for the government. The pattern of unions adding members in government while losing members in the private sector accelerated during the recession. The typical union member now works in the Post Office, not on the assembly line.

… The BLS’s annual report on union membership shows the labor movement’s decline in membership continued in 2009. While a full 23.0 percent of Americans belonged to labor unions in 1980, by 2008 only 12.4 percent did. In 2009, that figure dropped slightly to 12.3 percent.[2] There are now 15.3 million union members in the United States, 770,000 fewer than in 2008.

… What is newsworthy, however, is another figure reported by the BLS: 52 percent of all union members work for the federal or state and local governments, a sharp increase from the 49 percent in 2008. A majority of American union members are now employed by the government; three times more union members now work in the Post Office than in the auto industry.

Union funds go to liberal political figures way more than conservatives, you may see a few RINO's get some funds, not true conservatives.

I told you, I haven't dodged anything, I simply skip your posts when you start in with your lame *** "MARXIST, LIBERALS, SOCIALISM" sh t.

Right, so why did you try to say Obama didn't make this sweetheart deal for Unions first?

That's old as f and a worn out argument. You have no idea what socialism even is but your good at parroting that talking point, you also have no idea on what Marx's work was about, so another parroted boring talking point. Like anybody wants to read that sh t over and over.

While I do know exactly what socialism is, what is really the difference? This is America, we have our own political system and don't need to know what Marx's work was all about for us to see that what is happening today is not what our founding father's had in mind.

Just like your dumb *** use of the word "progressive". ****, your too dumb to know the difference. There are only about a dozen or so actual progressives in Washington. Mainly the house, and only 1 in the senate.. Bet you can't even tell me who that one lone progressive senator is.

Another fine example of being too stupid to realize how stupid you are.

All except the few Democrats who truly are 'blue dogs' are progressives in one form or another. I look at voting records, nothing else and every person who voted for the healthcare bill as written is definately a progressive.

Of course, your probably now gonna come back with "BUT YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION" even though it is perfectly clear that I have,

So I'll say it again, in reference to your ***** about the unions getting a deal with health care...

IT'S A TAX BREAK, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST TAX BREAKS, DON'T GIVE ME THAT sh t THAT IT ISN'T FAIR THEY GET ONE AND OTHERS DON'T BECAUSE YOUR THE SAME MORON WHO WANTS TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH

THERE IS YOUR ******* ANSWER.

.

.

Well you did still dodge the question, I never asked you if this was a tax break or not, I was the one asking you "why" Obama gave the Unions the tax break and what that massive back room deal did to help the average American?

So tell me Bender, how did Obama help America by giving Liberal Union leaders/his campaign supporters a sweet exclusion to healthcare taxes everyone else not in a Union must pay?

 

[ImWithStupid]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

You NEVER will see a source, because it's made up boogey man BS. .

.

http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/programs/os/cerbios.html

 

[phreakwars]

how did Obama help America by giving Liberal Union leaders/his campaign supporters a sweet exclusion to healthcare taxes everyone else not in a Union must pay?

He helped REAL workers and not big money, THAT'S how he helped. Hey, it's not the unions fault regular average joes didn't pull themselves up by the bootstraps and demand better benefits. That's what unions are for. Don't like it, go cry to freerepublic. I know how you just HATE those unions. What, with people standing up for their own best interests and not corporations interests and all.

Like you would ever ban yourself, your such a child sometimes.

Ban myself? No, I said I'd ban you.. but, if you CAN prove it and post the exact wording from the exact bill your trying to claim exists, ****, I'll take Royal Orleans off the MOD position and put you in his place.

Pretty sweet deal wouldn't ya say?

Here's your chance TJ. Come on, take my bet... show me the evidence no right wing blow hard on any forum I've visited has ever been able to do.

Come on, RO's position is on the line here too. Show me proof.

See that's just how confident I am that your full of ****, I'd be willing to bet my MOD on it...

And guess what, I REALLY don't expect to be losing my MOD in exchange for your sorry ***. Just ain't gonna happen.

So come on TJ, Take my bet, show me the fabled bill lines. Exact bill # and page. If it's true, then you should be able to find a reference to it on the right wing drone sites you visit for info & become our new MOD.

Piece of cake.

I need to go, but I'll check back later tonight for that proof.. Gives you PLENTY of time to find it.

.

.

 

[timesjoke]

He helped REAL workers and not big money, THAT'S how he helped. Hey, it's not the unions fault regular average joes didn't pull themselves up by the bootstraps and demand better benefits. That's what unions are for. Don't like it, go cry to freerepublic. I know how you just HATE those unions. What, with people standing up for their own best interests and not corporations interests and all.

Nice soapbox moment but what does any of that have to do with a National healchare bill that is serving all of America, not just a few spoiled labor Unions in collcetive barganing?

The answer is nothing, and that is the answer your too scared to admit to. Obama gave a purely political reward to purely liberal supporters, this reward to fat cat Unions actually hurt the overall bill because that tax was going to help pay for health care to the poor. Why is it Obama took money from helping the poor just to give it to already over priced Union workers?

Ban myself? No, I said I'd ban you.. but, if you CAN prove it and post the exact wording from the exact bill your trying to claim exists, ****, I'll take Royal Orleans off the MOD position and put you in his place.

Pretty sweet deal wouldn't ya say?

When was the last time RO came here? Oh, I know, it was just before I handed him his aZZ in another debate he took personal. The time before this departure was the same thing, he ran away from me because he is too immature to handle defeat. And I would not take a mod possition here for any reason, if I was staff I would hold myself above the debates to maintain objectivity and this is one of the few places I completely let my hair down so I can fight in the trenches.

Here's your chance TJ. Come on, take my bet... show me the evidence no right wing blow hard on any forum I've visited has ever been able to do.

Come on, RO's position is on the line here too. Show me proof.

See that's just how confident I am that your full of sh t, I'd be willing to bet my MOD on it...

And guess what, I REALLY don't expect to be losing my MOD in exchange for your sorry ***. Just ain't gonna happen.

So come on TJ, Take my bet, show me the fabled bill lines. Exact bill # and page. If it's true, then you should be able to find a reference to it on the right wing drone sites you visit for info & become our new MOD.

Piece of cake.

I need to go, but I'll check back later tonight for that proof.. Gives you PLENTY of time to find it.

.

.

I will give you this much, I am not sure what exact line it is on but every respected reviewer of the new law agrees it does give the Government the power to offer sticks and carrots and control what treatments will be given while other treatments will simply be priced out of the market.

I go back to Obama's own man for the job of figuring out how best to ration care:

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

So what do you say about what IWS just linked Bender?

 

[eddo]

IT'S A TAX BREAK, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST TAX BREAKS, DON'T GIVE ME THAT sh t THAT IT ISN'T FAIR THEY GET ONE AND OTHERS DON'T BECAUSE YOUR THE SAME MORON WHO WANTS TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH

 

YOU'RE

 

[phreakwars]

Just checking in, I see TJ hasn't produced any proof, just more hot air. As expected of course.

He has too much pride to concede that it doesn't exist because it's a right wing scare tactic myth.

Ohh no... he MUST insist he is right.

Proof of that???

NEVER.

Just like all of TJ's posts, no proof is ever offered, and it is followed up with a "BUT, BUT....WHY DOES SUCH AND SUCH HAVE TO DO THIS....BUT BUT WHY DOES SUCH AND SUCH HAVE TO DO THAT....THE SKY IS FALLING" AND OF COURSE "YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION"

Poor little chicken hawk TJ. Your questions keep getting answered, you just don't like the answer, so you make up reality in your head.

Go back to the Shawn Hannity forums and hang out with some more like minded drones. People like you bore the **** out of me... you *****, cry, complain, and pretend to be a victim of some big plot to get you, but alas, when someone opens up the closet with a flashlight and says "SHOW ME THE BOOGEYMAN" he just isn't there.

When will us adults ever believe people like you that the boogeyman is real.. if ONLY you could show proof.

.

.

 

[timesjoke]

Hugo and IWS already posted the proof and you pretend to not see their posts, so why waste my time trying to post something you will refuse to see?

I did give you a quote directly from one of the main progressives in charge of the rationing and still you pretend to not see the facts from yoru own people. Let me post that quote again:

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

And this makes it 14 times you have dodged the question of why Obama gave the massive tax break to Unions? You finally did admit it was a massive tax break, but you went on and on about how other people want tax breaks but you forget it is Obama who says giving tax breaks as evil so why did Obama give massive tax breaks to over paid Union workers and take that money out of the mouth of poor families who need that funding to help them as he claimed his plan was designed to do?

Your scared Bender, scared to admit your progressive President is more corrupt than any President before him, everything he has done to include this healthcare mess was designed to reward those who support progressives/liberals. Let's actually look at this healthcare law, it does nothing to gurantee lower costs, in fact recent studies show it has caused them to rise and they will keep going up a little at a time so why pass it if it will not lower costs?