phreakwars
New member
Docket#, Line, page?
Until shown, they showed NO PROOF, sorry, you lose.
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Uncle Sam's Plantation
- Thread starter ImWithStupid
- Start date
Until shown, they showed NO PROOF, sorry, you lose.
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ImWithStupid
New member
http://Off Topic Forum.com/top...519#entry112519
Is the Obama HHS lying?
phreakwars
New member
Docket#, Line, page?
Until shown, NO PROOF, sorry, try again.
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Until shown, NO PROOF, sorry, try again.
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ImWithStupid
New member
phreakwars
New member
Your silly illustrations are still not proof. Your inability to show proof only proves it to be nothing but theory and speculation..
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timesjoke
Active Members
You won't even believe the HHS Bender, there is no level of proof you will ever accept. Just like when you always claimed the Republicans never offered alternative ideas, IWS would post new idea after idea and you always pretended to never see a single thing. IWS posted the picture above to illustrate how you live your life, you bury your head in the sand of progressives/liberals/socialists and you will never let yourself be exposed to anything that does not conform to your agenda or makes your agenda look bad.
The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick
By the way, you still dodged the question about WHY Obama gavce a big tax break to only Union workers at the expence of underfunding his healthcare bill that was supposed to be for all Americans, especially the poor who could not afford health insurance.
Why did he do that Bender?
You can't bring yourself to admit that was a pure political thank-you for their support to get him elected can you Bender?
timesjoke
Active Members
To be honest I was not going to reply to this but I changed my mind, why is it the race card is always played any time the progressives can't give good reasons for what they do?
It is like my question to Bender that he refuses to answer, why did Obama give such a massive gift to Unions to exempt them from the new healthcare taxes?
The progressives do all this crazy stuff and after they do it, they pretend it never happened then begin a series of blocking moves and distractions to take attention away from what they did. The problem is their tactica have been so overused that the masses are starting to catch on so when all else failes, play the race card....right Bender?
I mean, you know that the same objections were made against the Government taking over healthcare back when the "white" Clintons tried to get it passed, so any thinking individual can know that opposition now is not based in race, but being honest would not supply you progressives with the cover you need now would it?
Now your back to the ostrich thing, you got your head in the sand and even with Obama ofdficials and the HHS all saying they will be using panels to determine medical treatments and reimbursement rates for doctors to control those doctors, you cover your eyes and plug your ears screaming "la, la, la, la I can't hear you....."
Funny stuff.
phreakwars
New member
I will accept Docket#, page, and line number, no less.
Can I make up things that aren't there too?
I heard the new health care bill legalizes marijuana. Don't ask me to prove it by showing you the exact wording, you'll just have to take my word for it.
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timesjoke
Active Members
And your not stupid, you know these powers to manipulate costs and ration medical treatments are not done in any single line, it is the total package spread out among hundreds of lines. I'm not wasting that much time to copy all that just for you to ignore it just like you ignored hundreds of other things people post like the two posts by IWS and Hugo in this thread your ignoring that proves the Government already has the power you speak of from the Obama Stimulus package.
But you pretend to be stupid so you can claim nobody showed you a line because it is too complex to post the entire extracted mess.
Why do you even doubt what Donald Berwick said? Do you think he is a Republican operative telling lies too? This guy is Obama's man, he admits there will be rationing. You know this is all true, but your too scared to admit to that truth because the only thing that matter to you is saving face, not being honest.
You flew the Obama flag and now that some very ugly realities of this man are being revealed, your need to pretend these things don't exist to save face.
I am still waiting for you to tell me why Obama gave Unions that sweetheart deal to exclude them from the new healthcare taxes and why that was good for all of America Bender, if you ever stop running away from that question and honestly answer it I may decide to devote some time posting a few of the lines out of the law that gives the Government the right to ration care. My question to you was before your question, you are still dodging my question so don't expect me to go out of my way to answer yours when your just going to ignore the lines and lie about what they mean anyway when your not answering my question.
timesjoke
Active Members
I decided to give you a chance to redeem yourself, here is one section where it covers the ability to reduce payments to Hospitals that have in their opinion a readmission issue:
H.R.3590-290 SEC. 3025. HOSPITAL READMISSIONS REDUCTION PROGRAM. (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 1886 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395ww), as amended by sections 3001 and 3008, is amended by adding at the end the following novel subsection :”’(q) HOSPITAL READMISSIONS REDUCTION PROGRAM.—”’(1) IN GENERAL.—With respect to payment for discharges from an applicable hospital (as defined in paragraph (5)©) occurring during a fiscal year beginning on or after October 1, 2012, in order to account for excess readmissions in the hospital, the Secretary shall reduce the payments that would otherwise be made to such hospital under subsection (d) (or section 1814(B)(3), as the case may be) for such a discharge by an amount equal to the product of—”’(A) the base operating DRG payment amount (as defined in paragraph (2)) for the discharge; and”’(B) the adjustment factor (described in paragraph (3)(A)) for the hospital for the fiscal year.
What this means is buracrats and non-doctors will have the power to reduce payments to hospitals based on readmissions and not if the admissions were necessary or not, there are similar rules for reducing payments to doctors for the same reason that they are ording readmissions "too often" so they need to be punished.
So what will this lead to?
Doctors and hospitals will be more concerned with fitting a set Government profile of how often they are allowed readmissions than what the patient really needs for their medical treatment. As long as doctors and hospitals "appear" the way they are mandated to appear, they get their full payments, if they don't conform to a buracratic model of perfection set by non-doctors, then they are not paid their full reimbursement.
So there you go Bender, one great example of how the Government will control medical treatments and not your doctor or hospitals because the Government will simply deny payment for services rendered. What do you have to say about that?
Or is it time to toss some more insults, call me a racist and bury your head in the sand again?
H.R.3590-290 SEC. 3025. HOSPITAL READMISSIONS REDUCTION PROGRAM. (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 1886 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395ww), as amended by sections 3001 and 3008, is amended by adding at the end the following novel subsection :”’(q) HOSPITAL READMISSIONS REDUCTION PROGRAM.—”’(1) IN GENERAL.—With respect to payment for discharges from an applicable hospital (as defined in paragraph (5)©) occurring during a fiscal year beginning on or after October 1, 2012, in order to account for excess readmissions in the hospital, the Secretary shall reduce the payments that would otherwise be made to such hospital under subsection (d) (or section 1814(B)(3), as the case may be) for such a discharge by an amount equal to the product of—”’(A) the base operating DRG payment amount (as defined in paragraph (2)) for the discharge; and”’(B) the adjustment factor (described in paragraph (3)(A)) for the hospital for the fiscal year.
What this means is buracrats and non-doctors will have the power to reduce payments to hospitals based on readmissions and not if the admissions were necessary or not, there are similar rules for reducing payments to doctors for the same reason that they are ording readmissions "too often" so they need to be punished.
So what will this lead to?
Doctors and hospitals will be more concerned with fitting a set Government profile of how often they are allowed readmissions than what the patient really needs for their medical treatment. As long as doctors and hospitals "appear" the way they are mandated to appear, they get their full payments, if they don't conform to a buracratic model of perfection set by non-doctors, then they are not paid their full reimbursement.
So there you go Bender, one great example of how the Government will control medical treatments and not your doctor or hospitals because the Government will simply deny payment for services rendered. What do you have to say about that?
Or is it time to toss some more insults, call me a racist and bury your head in the sand again?
When I read that over I saw that as a positive thing. Maybe I'm not getting it but it seems to me that making other care facilities more accessible would reduce fees and possibly eliminate so many costly re-admissions.
I also read this..makes sense.
http://www.ahip.org/content/pressrelease.aspx?docid=30659
Who knows though..if you're an Obama hater he'll never do anything right..the same as if McCain was elected all his choices would be seen as ****** by those who voted otherwise.
I also read this..makes sense.
http://www.ahip.org/content/pressrelease.aspx?docid=30659
Who knows though..if you're an Obama hater he'll never do anything right..the same as if McCain was elected all his choices would be seen as ****** by those who voted otherwise.
phreakwars
New member
But see, if you cut and splice one line with another line like TJ says, you get a whole new line. It's all a part of the conspiracy.
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timesjoke
Active Members
The problem is you don't do this with bean counters and buracracy that sets quotas. There will be a set limit of readmissions and if the hospital or doctor exceeds that line drawn in the sand, their reimbursements will be reduced. A case by case review would be fair, a blind quota is not and it forces doctors and hospitals to be constantly concerned if their getting close to their punishment number instead of doing what they feel is right for the patient.
There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything, and inserting a huge Government buracracy is always the wrong way to do anything.
I don't hate Obama, I hate a lot of the damaging things he has done and wants to do but that is his actions, not him as a person. I hated the idea of the Government running healthcare when the Clintons were trying to do it and I hate the same idea now even if it is repackaged to look different. My point is I don't want Government buracrats inserted in the medical profession and ******** around.
Hey Bender, I gave you a direct quote out of the law proving the Government will be directly punishing doctors and Hospitals based on arbitrary quotas instead of letting doctors have a free hand in treating their patients the way they see fit. This is the first step of rationing and the biggest harm is the power, the power of Government burcrats to meddle with medical decisions and set fear of the system in the minds of our care givers.
So now what, I showed you one piece of proof that fits into your request and do you admit to it finally or do you run away from me once again?
Well if I was a doctor...rather than worry about reimbursement..it may also force me to take extra time and care...instead of treat and street. It may actually make the quality of healthcare better too. It's possible..it may not..but there is a possibility of good things happening.
timesjoke
Active Members
"treat and street" is exactly what this kind of law forces doctors to do.
You have to look at the big picture emkay, I understand your trying to paint the best possible picture of the new law but we have to see reality and understand how this government buracracy must work.
They are already reducing all reimbursements accross the board anyway, doctors must worry about reimbursements because that is how they pay the bills Emkay, just like you have to be concerned how you will pay your bills.
So the doctor is already getting lower reimbursements for everything from a office visit to a surgical operation, but the Government then says that based on their quotas they will be reducing already reduced reimbursements? Not because of a actual case they can quote but because you reached some magical number they don't like?
A possibility of good things happening is not good enough for me, because there is a greater possibility of very bad things happeneing as it always does when Government buracracies get in the way.
phreakwars
New member
Don't see the problem here, certainly not the one your making up...
phreakwars
New member
BTW, here is the REAL text of the bill your trying to quote:
There are 7 versions of Bill Number H.R.3590 for the 111th Congress. Usually, the last item is the most recent.
http://thomas.loc.go...?c111:H.R.3590:
http://frwebgate.acc...3590enr.txt.pdf
There are 7 versions of Bill Number H.R.3590 for the 111th Congress. Usually, the last item is the most recent.
http://thomas.loc.go...?c111:H.R.3590:
phreakwars
New member
ImWithStupid
New member
This has been up on my status update since last night...
111th Congress; H.R. 1 ENR; TITLE VIII; Sec 804
111th Congress; H.R. 1 ENR; TITLE VIII; Sec 804
This was the point I was making. I read all this at various other sources. It doesn't sound like a terrible thing. It may make the caregiver have to take some extra time with a patient and make sure all measures are taken so they don't have to be readmitted shrugs I don't see much of a problem. However I think they need a new system..and perhaps a few tweaks here and there (like this) to see what happens is better than a complete overhaul forcing a huge adjustment. The system already sucks..it's going to be a trial and error system to see what works anyways.