WAS WWII WORTH FIGHTING?

Tommy Joe <joss@bellsouth.net>
<951bcc51-ac0f-4dc2-b64e-8878f513413a@a22g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
: Bozo <Bozo_De_Niro@37.com>
: > <OllieNorthie@aol.com>
: > :
: > : "I'd rather switch than fight"
: > :
: >
: > That's right, you would. At least you're shamelessly honest
: > about it. But that's also because you can shove the burden
: > of it onto others and still reap, accrue and ENJOY the
: > benefits of said fighting. There's a word for that.
: > You parasitic leach.
: >
:
: Who's going to decide which battles are worth fighting - you?
: I wouldn't put a uniform on for any country, and anyone who
: does is an idiot. True freedom does not need defending.
: People would flock to true freedom, not try to topple it.
: People say freedom is worth fighting for. True freedom does
: not need defending.
:

I think?,
"You got it backwards, Tommy Joe?!?!?!,...., its actually,
'PEACE' doesnt need defending!!!,...., take a look at a
communist slave labor camp, everybody imprisoned aren't
at war with anybody, so there's peace,...., look at birds
that are caged up?!?!?!,...., they're living with peace,
but its 'FREEDOM,' that needs to be fought for!!!,....,
there are alot of Tyrants, Slave Owners and Pet Masters,
that want to lock your azz up!!!,...., so if you want
freedom?!?!?!,...., then you better fight for it!!!..."
(the cost of freedom, is paid for by the blood of Patriots)

Generals?,
"Gather in their masses!!!..."

"VideO Madness" "War Pigs!!!..."
(by the AUK's der'Office of Illucidus Maximus)

COlOnel Jake Enterprises
 
tankfixer wrote:
>
>
> > Thank you, looks like were on the same page, kind of. Any war in
> > which you have time to put on a uniform is obviously orchestrated.
> > That's why they get young people. That's why they have those stupid
> > election "debates" on college campuses. The debates are an
> > advertisement for the voting process. They don't care who wins, as
> > long as it's one of them. I was always opposed to the military draft,
> > but am not beginning to think the all volunteer group is worse. They
> > come back from the war all messed up in the head, and everyone thinks
> > it's because of the war. I say they were messed up before they
> > joined. To hell with them.



> Funny how some of us think you are messed up in the head.


Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
they joined in the first place.

Tommy Joe
 
colonel jake wrote:
>
>
> I think?,
> "You got it backwards, Tommy Joe?!?!?!,...., its actually,
> 'PEACE' doesnt need defending!!!,...., take a look at a
> communist slave labor camp, everybody imprisoned aren't
> at war with anybody, so there's peace,...., look at birds
> that are caged up?!?!?!,...., they're living with peace,
> but its 'FREEDOM,' that needs to be fought for!!!,....,
> there are alot of Tyrants, Slave Owners and Pet Masters,
> that want to lock your azz up!!!,...., so if you want
> freedom?!?!?!,...., then you better fight for it!!!..."
> (the cost of freedom, is paid for by the blood of Patriots)


I will use my freedom of speech to say I strongly disagree but am
too tired to argue about it. Besides, it could lead to a war. We
wouldn't want that.

Tommy Joe
 
In article <b4726449-d5da-4cbf-a81e-51d5063f8f45
@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, joss@bellsouth.net says...
>
>
> tankfixer wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Thank you, looks like were on the same page, kind of. Any war in
> > > which you have time to put on a uniform is obviously orchestrated.
> > > That's why they get young people. That's why they have those stupid
> > > election "debates" on college campuses. The debates are an
> > > advertisement for the voting process. They don't care who wins, as
> > > long as it's one of them. I was always opposed to the military draft,
> > > but am not beginning to think the all volunteer group is worse. They
> > > come back from the war all messed up in the head, and everyone thinks
> > > it's because of the war. I say they were messed up before they
> > > joined. To hell with them.
>
>
>
> > Funny how some of us think you are messed up in the head.
>
>
> Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
> If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
> I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
> up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
> they joined in the first place.

Your contention is absurd.
But then children are often confused.
 
In article
<b4726449-d5da-4cbf-a81e-51d5063f8f45@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Tommy Joe <joss@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> tankfixer wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Thank you, looks like were on the same page, kind of. Any war in
> > > which you have time to put on a uniform is obviously orchestrated.
> > > That's why they get young people. That's why they have those stupid
> > > election "debates" on college campuses. The debates are an
> > > advertisement for the voting process. They don't care who wins, as
> > > long as it's one of them. I was always opposed to the military draft,
> > > but am not beginning to think the all volunteer group is worse. They
> > > come back from the war all messed up in the head, and everyone thinks
> > > it's because of the war. I say they were messed up before they
> > > joined. To hell with them.
>
>
>
> > Funny how some of us think you are messed up in the head.
>
>
> Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
> If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
> I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
> up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
> they joined in the first place.
>
So you don't believe that extreme conditions can cause psychological
damage?
 
WW2 was worth if for the profiteers who tricked us into. it. Hitler
did not cause the war. He was just a tool of the profiteers and
america should have stayed out. Germany never attacked us and the
japs only attacked because FDR forced them to.
 
In article <0233b9d7-b45f-4ed2-af07-676e623fae23
@u3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, betaxxx@earthlink.net says...
> Germany never attacked us and the

USS Reuben James, sunk by a German torpedo
31 October 1941.


> japs only attacked because FDR forced them to.

That old lie eh ?
 
Tommy Joe <joss@bellsouth.net>
<821ec37e-f071-4e33-b256-e6227a4ab846@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
: Colonel Jake <SergeantYork@comcast.net>
: >
: > I think?,
: > "You got it backwards, Tommy Joe?!?!?!,...., its actually,
: > 'PEACE' doesnt need defending!!!,...., take a look at a
: > communist slave labor camp, everybody imprisoned aren't
: > at war with anybody, so there's peace,...., look at birds
: > that are caged up?!?!?!,...., they're living with peace,
: > but its 'FREEDOM,' that needs to be fought for!!!,....,
: > there are alot of Tyrants, Slave Owners and Pet Masters,
: > that want to lock your azz up!!!,...., so if you want
: > freedom?!?!?!,...., then you better fight for it!!!..."
: > (the cost of freedom, is paid for by the blood of Patriots)
: >
:
: I will use my freedom of speech to say I strongly disagree
: but am too tired to argue about it. Besides, it could lead
: to a war. We wouldn't want that.
:

That all depends?,
"On who the Patriots are?!?!?!,...., that are bleedin'
for us!!!,...., but why the hell not?!?!?!,....,
war is good, war?!?!?!,...., is GoD!!!..."

"VideO Madness" "War Pigs!!! (BleuRaeder Version 1.01)..."
by the AUK's der'Office of Illucidus Maximus)

COlOnel Jake Enterprises
 
In article
<0233b9d7-b45f-4ed2-af07-676e623fae23@u3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> WW2 was worth if for the profiteers who tricked us into. it. Hitler
> did not cause the war. He was just a tool of the profiteers and
> america should have stayed out. Germany never attacked us and the
> japs only attacked because FDR forced them to.

Holy ignorant revisionism, Batman! Hitler "did not cause the war" when
he invaded Poland? Germany did attack American ships, and they declared
war on the United States.

FDR did not "force" the Japenese to invade China, did he?
 
tankfixer wrote:
>
>
> > Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
> > If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
> > I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
> > up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
> > they joined in the first place.



> Your contention is absurd. But then children are often confused.


That's your opinion, nothing more. People can have any number
of reasons for joining the military. Some may even join out of a
sense of patriotism. But most join because they're confused, lost,
scared, facing jail, or enticed by fancy tv commercials that make war
look like fun. I admit there could be any number of reasons why
someone might join the military. Expecting to have a high old time
bombing the **** out of people might be one of those reasons. For you
to say otherwise proves that you are the real child here. As for
world war two, I still say it's an over-glorified bit of history soon
to fade as things more real and immediate take hold and blow our world
to smithereens.

Tommy Joe (Let's get it on, Punk!)

Tommy Joe
 
Hugh Gibbons wrote:
>
>
> > Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
> > If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
> > I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
> > up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
> > they joined in the first place.


> So you don't believe that extreme conditions can cause psychological damage?


Of course I believe that. I don't just believe it, I know it.
But I'm sick of that being paraded around as the only reason while
other equally meaningful reasons are so conveniently ignored. It's
almost like it's off-limits to suggest that some of these people might
have had mental problems before they joined. I feel the same about
cops. It's ****ing nuts. I remember back in the 70s reading about
some L.A. cops who were arrested for burglarizing shops in Hollywood,
and their lawyers claimed the cops were influenced by the hardships of
working in Hollywood. I lived 23 years in Hollywood and never
burglarized any stores. I was a pretty damned good shoplifer though.
Anyway, they pull the same story with cops who go nuts and kill
themselves and their families. The reality is, the job attracts such
looneys in the first place. And I think you and everyone knows it
while doing a good job pretending otherwise..

Tommy Joe
 
Hugh Gibbons wrote:
> In article
> <0233b9d7-b45f-4ed2-af07-676e623fae23@u3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > WW2 was worth if for the profiteers who tricked us into. it. Hitler
> > did not cause the war. He was just a tool of the profiteers and
> > america should have stayed out. Germany never attacked us and the
> > japs only attacked because FDR forced them to.
>
> Holy ignorant revisionism, Batman! Hitler "did not cause the war" when
> he invaded Poland? Germany did attack American ships, and they declared
> war on the United States.
>
> FDR did not "force" the Japenese to invade China, did he?


Wasn't there some big historian asshole named Gibbons who wrote
something called "the history of the world", or something like that?
You seem to be following in his path, just like him claiming to know
everything that went down in history. The truth is, I don't know
specifically what went down, but I don't need to know. All I have to
do to know the past is to look at today. I can look at yesterday and
see today, but it's a bit more honest and less combative to look at
today for a good glimpse of yesterday. History as you know it is a
hobby, nothing more. For your own good, stop trying to make it out to
be more important than it is. I would never debate history with you
or anyone. It's a stupid waste of time.

Tommy Joe
 
On Apr 12, 1:13 pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<beta...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> WW2 was worth if for the profiteers who tricked us into. it. Hitler
> did not cause the war. He was just a tool of the profiteers and
> america should have stayed out. Germany never attacked us and the
> japs only attacked because FDR forced them to.

My god, almost everything you write is devoid of intelligence and
compassion. Were you severely beaten as a child?

Germany was attacking our allies. If America had stood aside, Europe
would have fallen and we would have been alone and next. There is
lots of evidence that our government knew about the atrocities being
visited upon the Jews. Also, the German declared war upon the United
States after Pearl Harbor and not the other way around.

Japan attacked us because we were hindering their plans to create
their Pacific empire.
 
In article
<9de06217-b3fa-4ba2-9892-41bbb9708f43@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Tommy Joe <joss@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Hugh Gibbons wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
> > > If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
> > > I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
> > > up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
> > > they joined in the first place.
>
>
> > So you don't believe that extreme conditions can cause psychological damage?
>
>
> Of course I believe that. I don't just believe it, I know it.
> But I'm sick of that being paraded around as the only reason while
> other equally meaningful reasons are so conveniently ignored. It's
> almost like it's off-limits to suggest that some of these people might
> have had mental problems before they joined. I feel the same about
> cops. It's ****ing nuts. I remember back in the 70s reading about
> some L.A. cops who were arrested for burglarizing shops in Hollywood,
> and their lawyers claimed the cops were influenced by the hardships of
> working in Hollywood. I lived 23 years in Hollywood and never
> burglarized any stores. I was a pretty damned good shoplifer though.
> Anyway, they pull the same story with cops who go nuts and kill
> themselves and their families. The reality is, the job attracts such
> looneys in the first place. And I think you and everyone knows it
> while doing a good job pretending otherwise..
>
I'm not ignoring it. But I think the bulk of the problems that are
presented as post-traumatic stress disorder are exactly that. Most of
the guys that go into the military are normal. The vast majority are.
The same is true for cops. Combat is extreme and pushes some people
way beyond their psychological limits. In many cases, the changes in
personality and behavior are noticed both by the soldiers by their
families and friends, so it's clear something has changed. But yeah,
there is going to be an over-representation of guys (and sometimes gals)
who are attracted to the violence and stress in an abnormal way
certainly in soldiering and probably also in police work.
 
In article <39bb2ff4-c6c2-4871-b431-
0351c21dc8fe@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, joss@bellsouth.net says...
>
>
> tankfixer wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Right. But I'm not blaming anyone or anything specific for it.
> > > If I were to do so, I'd look for the truth, not a bunch of excuses.
> > > I'm sick of reading in the paper how some Iraq vets come back messed
> > > up in the head. I say they were messed up to begin with, which is why
> > > they joined in the first place.
>
>
>
> > Your contention is absurd. But then children are often confused.
>
>
> That's your opinion, nothing more. People can have any number
> of reasons for joining the military. Some may even join out of a
> sense of patriotism. But most join because they're confused, lost,
> scared, facing jail, or enticed by fancy tv commercials that make war
> look like fun. I admit there could be any number of reasons why
> someone might join the military. Expecting to have a high old time
> bombing the **** out of people might be one of those reasons. For you
> to say otherwise proves that you are the real child here. As for
> world war two, I still say it's an over-glorified bit of history soon
> to fade as things more real and immediate take hold and blow our world
> to smithereens.
>


Let me guess, you are either too young to join or they wouldn't let you
because of your "problems"...




--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"
 
I never proof-read my posts. wrote:
> On Apr 12, 1:13 pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
> <beta...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > WW2 was worth if for the profiteers who tricked us into. it. Hitler
> > did not cause the war. He was just a tool of the profiteers and
> > america should have stayed out. Germany never attacked us and the
> > japs only attacked because FDR forced them to.



> My god, almost everything you write is devoid of intelligence and
> compassion. Were you severely beaten as a child?
>
> Germany was attacking our allies.


What is an ally?

Tommy Joe
 
Hugh Gibbons wrote:
>
>
> But yeah,
> there is going to be an over-representation of guys (and sometimes gals)
> who are attracted to the violence and stress in an abnormal way
> certainly in soldiering and probably also in police work.


That's the part of your post I liked most, especially the term
"over-representation" used to describe the number of enlisters who fit
my profile. As for cops, I don't care for them at all. I know
they're human beings, and some of them may join for idealistic
reasons. But after a few months hiding behind trees with a radar gun,
or sitting a four way stop sign writing &160.00 tickets for drivers
who don't come to an absolute complete stop with the car going into
neutral for the count of 2 seconds minimum - if after all that time
taking part in such obviously unethical practices they still want to
stay on as cops, from that point on it's obvious these people care
much less about the law they're paid to enfroce than those who they
enforce it on. Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time trying to
convince anyone to hate soldiers and cops, and I wish other people
would stop trying to convince me they should be glorified as heroes.
Last time: world war two may or may not have been worth fighting. If
it was worth fighting, then probably most wars are worth fighting, or
they wouldn't have been fought. Sure, it was worth it, for someone.
Everthing that ever happened at any time was worth it for someone, or
it wouldn't have happened.

Tommy Joe
 
tankfixer wrote:
>
>
> Let me guess, you are either too young to join or they wouldn't let you
> because of your "problems"...



Way off on all guesses. I'm 60 years old and had plans for avoid
the military from the time I was 13 years old, 5 years from the age at
which one at that time had to register for service and take the all-
day physical and mental examinations, which I conveniently failed and
have never looked back, except with some degree of admiration for the
way I pulled it off.

Tommy Joe
 
In article <ede924ff-3311-4eff-9d26-5f9cee897271
@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, joss@bellsouth.net says...
>
>
> tankfixer wrote:
> >
> >
> > Let me guess, you are either too young to join or they wouldn't let you
> > because of your "problems"...
>
>
>
> Way off on all guesses. I'm 60 years old and had plans for avoid
> the military from the time I was 13 years old, 5 years from the age at
> which one at that time had to register for service and take the all-
> day physical and mental examinations, which I conveniently failed and
> have never looked back, except with some degree of admiration for the
> way I pulled it off.

Wow, what a man.
So it was the problems that kept you out.

--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"
 
tankfixer wrote:
>
>
> Wow, what a man.
> So it was the problems that kept you out.


I shouldn't waste my time telling you stories you may not
appreciate, but here we go.

At the end of the all-day exam when they asked everyone in a
questionaire if we were homosexual, I answered, "Not sure." This
caused them to keep me after everyone else had been excused. They
gave me a pass to the cafeteria, another pass to a nearby hotel room,
and a note to see a psychiatrist the following morning at 9am.

But my proudest moment came earlier in the day when a bunch of us
were asked to check "yes" or "no" to a bunch of groups that were
considered unAmerican. What I did was totally impromptu. That's what
I'm proud of.

When I got to the "American Nazi Party", I raised my hand.
Finally I got the attention of the soldier giving the test. He came
to my desk asking what's the problem. I said, "I don't know how to
answer this one", pointing to the Nazi Party. "I don't know if I
should say yes or no."

"What do you mean, you don't know?", he said. "A simple yes or
no will do it."

"But you don't understand", I said. My voice got quiet and I
beckoned for him to come closer. "You see, I'm thining about joining
the Nazi party, but I am not presently a member. If I put down "yes"
and later don't join, I could be accused of lying. If I put down
"no", then join later, again I might be accused of lying."

He got frustrated and said, "Just put down "no".

I said I couldn't do that with a good conscious. So he sent me
down the hall to a guy who wore a lot of stripes. He asked me to sit
down. He took his time looking at a few things, then looked me in the
eye and said, "You don't want to be in the army, do you Mr. Joseph?"

I said, "No, I do not." To which he replied, "And we don't want
you."

I got all excited when he said that. "You mean I'm out?" And
he laughed and said no, it's not that easy. But he'll pass it along
for evaluation.

I know it was probably the catch-all homo ploy that got me out.
But I'd like to think my impromptu nazi schtick had something to do
with it. My point in telling you this story, Tankfixer, is to agree
with your assessment that I had problems before I took the tests, but
I had the honesty to recognize them and not force them on other
people. I didn't want in, and the smart guy with all the stripes knew
it. Too bad there probably aren't more like him in the service.

Tommy Joe
 

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