What Keeps You Out Of Prison?

[Jhony5]

IF I go and buy drugs, I KNOW the potential consequences...everyone does, just because the outcome of being caught can be potentially ****** up, like it was with your friend, we ALL (unless you're retarded) know what can happen...

Well you're right to some extent. When a predefined consequence of any action is laid out, and one chooses to run the risk....well its a cause and effect situation. Same as the East Germans knew the consequence when they decided to make West for the barbed wire. Point being, sometimes the consequence is far to extreme.

Two half ounce bags ON HIM?. That's "supply".

Well it was circumstance that resulted in him having two bags instead of one large. The guy he bought it from didn't have a whole ounce, rather two halves. So he didn't take the time to put them together in one bag. For those of you not following. When they find you with drugs in two packages, it show motive toward distribution. That and he had his $700 in cash left from his check. Even though he could prove he had cashed a check that afternoon for more than that amount, they took it anyway as he couldn't prove that particular $700 was indeed from his check.

...but right now it's criminal activity, we all know it, and we all know the potential consequences

I agree. He couldn't blame anyone but that **** dog for his ill circumstance. But the point of my mentioning that instance, was to reinforce the point that victimless crimes being punished so vigorously are detrimental to society, as opposed to what we are told. A hard working family man with no criminal record had his life thrown onto the rocks because of mandatory sentencing and overpowered judicial tactics. Prosecution that involves ignoring extenuating circumstance (the fact that he had two bags instead of one/ his possession of $700).
Our laws, especially concerning drugs, have been finagled to a point where they prefer wrongful conviction over no conviction. Take this for example. Many states have adopted a law called "Constructive possession". What this means and where its applied is when they pull over a car with 4 people in it. Upon searching the vehicle they find a bag of cocaine under the seat. Under the terms of "Constructive possession" all people in the car are charged with possession of the same substance if no one admits ownership. Defying logic. No, its silly to assert that 4 people can possess the same object.

The other people might have had no knowledge whatsoever of the fact that any drugs were in the car, but they go to jail anyway. Because the law refuses to let people have a chance of getting away with a crime.

But how do you define "victimless" crime?...

Good question. Seems obvious at first, but spin doctors will provide loose fitting explanations of how being in possession of a bag of weed indeed produces victims. If you buy illegal drugs from a dealer, you are perpetuating his illegal activity. Therefor you are in part, financing his illegal activity which down the line will result in kids buying drugs from this same fella. Theres yer victims. Right? By buying drugs I have indirectly perpetuated an activity that allowed some poor kid to get hooked on dope.

I however find these sort of semantics purely laughable. Buying, growing or possessing dope in no way directly or indirectly victimizes anyone, save for maybe yourself by way of having a habit. The logic that follows this is the same logic that has made attempted suicide a crime. Public intoxication, thats a ******* crime? Ya buddy it is. But who was the victim? Stand out on the sidewalk in front of your home, drunk, and your breaking the law. Show me the victim please.

Think you catch my drift, Moko?

 

[Moko]

Well you're right to some extent. When a predefined consequence of any action is laid out, and one chooses to run the risk....well its a cause and effect situation. Same as the East Germans knew the consequence when they decided to make West for the barbed wire. Point being, sometimes the consequence is far to extreme.

It's a bit of a stretch to compare the societal, religious, lack of democracy and freedom plight of millions of people to that of someone wanting a bong. It's like comparing your right to use a red pen at work to that of the inmates of germany's concentration camps in ww2 and their right to food...just ain't the same thing.

But I get your point.

Our laws, especially concerning drugs, have been finagled to a point where they prefer wrongful conviction over no conviction. Take this for example. Many states have adopted a law called "Constructive possession". What this means and where its applied is when they pull over a car with 4 people in it. Upon searching the vehicle they find a bag of cocaine under the seat. Under the terms of "Constructive possession" all people in the car are charged with possession of the same substance if no one admits ownership. Defying logic. No, its silly to assert that 4 people can possess the same object.

The other people might have had no knowledge whatsoever of the fact that any drugs were in the car, but they go to jail anyway. Because the law refuses to let people have a chance of getting away with a crime.

It's INSANE that possessing some pot for your own personal use has such dire consequences when smoking cigarettes is legal with proven health consequences...same could be said for alcohol with it's contribution to domestic violence, when after a bong all you feel like is food and listening to music...I haven't seen ONE SINGLE fight as a direct result of people being smashed on pot...how illogical the laws regarding pot are, it just blows my mind.

Your 4 person possession senario is, it would seem, an attempt to get people to "dob" the actual owner of the drugs in...I would suggest that if one of your mates is comfortable with letting you share in the fall for HIS DRUGS, then I'd suggest that that fucken piece of **** needs to be shot in the face with a .50 cal BMG.

There is NO WAY I'd would let my friends take the fall for my ****, and I hope they would do the same for me...if I knew the drugs belonged to someone else and they were attempting to get me to share in the consequences I would sing like a mother ******* canary...**** them.

I however find these sort of semantics purely laughable. Buying, growing or possessing dope in no way directly or indirectly victimizes anyone, save for maybe yourself by way of having a habit. The logic that follows this is the same logic that has made attempted suicide a crime. Public intoxication, thats a ******* crime? Ya buddy it is. But who was the victim? Stand out on the sidewalk in front of your home, drunk, and your breaking the law. Show me the victim please.

Think you catch my drift, Moko?

I suggest you ask that same question to the billions of people who have been a victim of crime by that same drunk person...of course it's stupid that you would get charged for being ****** in the street, but if it wasn't, how much more assaults would there be?, I'd suggest it's an attempt an pre-emptive legislation to make it undesirable to be a drunk, beligerent, piece of **** that's an embarrassment to themselves and a potential danger to themselves and others.

You do have a point, but you're not seeing the big picture.

Who was the victim of your friend who was caught with two bags of weed?...he himself was, his kids and his missus. Some laws are insane, but as a society we ask the law makers and government to make our society as safe as possible and we give them permission to do what they NEED to do to achieve that goal...as a society we can't ask that, then ***** and moan about being a victim of those permissions.

 

[Jhony5]

Who was the victim of your friend who was caught with two bags of weed?...he himself was, his kids and his missus.

Well thats a real pickle ain't it?

When my friend Dave bought a bag of weed and went to his friends house to smoke it while playing cards, who was hurt? Who's property was destroyed? Who was left in the wake of his criminal path, devastated by his actions? Who was victimized by his evening of pot smoking?

Action and reaction.

His action of purchasing pot and smoking it, didn't hurt anyone.

However the actions of the overzealous sentencing and prosecution, had a devastating reaction for his family. One could say that his action of possessing marijuana, caused the reaction of the law enforcement. I say no. Because his action did not directly cause the damage. It was the sentence that hurt his family. This is in no way whatsoever good for society. To lock a good hardworking man up for months while his family lost most of what they had worked so hard to achieve.

The victims were indeed his family. The true crime was the jail sentence. Because it hurt people. Victimized children.

I know that you're going to say, hey he knew what he was doing was illegal. So why is he not the one responsible for hurting his family?

Well he is, and he isn't. Hes responsible for breaking the law. But the extreme sentence is responsible for the only damage done. I say his action indirectly hurt his family. But the sentence was what did the direct damage.

How much is too much before you would agree with me? 20 years? Life? For a small bag of plants that make you giggle. At what point can one say, the disproportionate consequence is more harmful than the actual act of breaking the law?

It was all lies and trickery. This happens everyday. He wasn't a drug dealer. There was no proof he sold drugs to anyone. There was evidence to the contrary. However the War on Drugs amplified and manipulated the law in such a way as to make it possible to convict people of drug offenses that they never committed. All circumstantial evidence arranged in a way as to incriminate a man of 'conspiracy to distribute' instead of the actual crime of possession.

Some laws are insane, but as a society we ask the law makers and government to make our society as safe as possible and we give them permission to do what they NEED to do to achieve that goal...as a society we can't ask that, then ***** and moan about being a victim of those permissions.

Yes, we as a society have deemed our law makers with the responsibility of constructing our laws to keep us safe. But they abuse this request. I don't think we as a society, want our laws doing more damage than the crimes.The case I stated was a text book ******* perfect example of how this can occur.

The real issue is in most drug cases, the individual prosecutes and judges have no control over the punishment, nor do they have the ability to approach cases like these on a case by case basis. The war on drugs introduced mandatory minimums and strict prosecution guidelines that the individual judicial administrators have no control over.

 

[Moko]

It sucks, there's no two ways about it, but we're starting to go round in a circle...

There IS a big picture like I previously suggested.

Courts are bogged down with fuckwits suing every other ****** over **** all, unfortuately judges and magistrates have to see every case and judge it on a guideline and not its merits...no matter how ****** up they are, 90% of lawsuits shouldn't get past the ******* first phonecall to a lawyer, but those ******* are the spawn of the anti-christ and would sell their left nut for a fucken coffee...my point?..umm oh yeah, with arseholes like that bogging down the courts, people like your mate are subject to a "a+b+c=getting ****** over" formula, the courts don't have time to judge something on its merits...that's also why fellas are getting ****** over by their **** ex's in custody battles or just plain old visitation rights...but that's another rant.

You're right, no-one is getting hurt by your mate sucking on a billie, maybe except for a few of his brain cells, but so long as it's illegal and he knows it, then suffer the consequences if you get caught...rules of game, my friend...like I said, if you're that keen on it, move to where its legal, or decriminalized....or get smart.

 

[eddo]

but so long as it's illegal and he knows it, then suffer the consequences if you get caught...rules of game, my friend...

exactly. I don't know why that is so hard for some to understand.

 

[Jhony5]

exactly. I don't know why that is so hard for some to understand.

Please to understand me correctly. Neither me or my friend Dave spent time crying about how unfair this is. He never made a big issue out of pointing the finger to admonish himself of blame. He got out and got another job. He bought another house.

Its about change, and change needs to happen. Our legislators need to understand that the current construct of the law allows for far to many cases like this. Where the penalty for the crime is far more damaging then the crime.

There IS a big picture like I previously suggested

I'm aware of this. According to you, the "big picture" is, they don't have the time to run checks and balances because their to busy. Overcrowded. Swamped. Workload to high to ensure justice is handed down fairly. How did things become this way? The war on drugs. Like any war it produces casualties, both intended targets and collateral damage. You say that so matter of fact and smug. Its people thinking like you and Eddo that have caused this sort of legislature to run autonomously. Like an entity with a life of its own.
Why are the courts so crowded? Could it have to do with all the people they arrest over victimless crimes like public intoxication and possession? Our prisons are overcrowded. 75% of all inmates are in on drug offenses. 50% of that 75% is for marijuana related convictions. Check the numbers yourself if ya don't believe.

Look, its about causing change, not crying like a baby over circumstance. Yes, he knew it was illegal. But no, he didn't think if he had been caught that he would be locked up for 10 months for a small personal amount of weeds. He didn't commit the crime they convicted him of, yet you two say it was fair because he knew the consequence. Fact is, he didn't. It would be like getting convicted of vandalism when all ya did was liter.

You're right, no-one is getting hurt by your mate sucking on a billie, maybe except for a few of his brain cells,

Marijuana DOES NOT kill brain cells. You can kill more brain cells by simply holding your breath too long.

then suffer the consequences if you get caught...rules of game, my friend...

I asked earlier and you didn't respond. How much is too much for simple possession before you rethink a broad statement such as this? 10 years in federal prison? 20 years? 40 years? Life ? At what point does your dismissive brush off stop, and you stand up and say that the penalty is the real crime?
Are we to start lobbing of limbs for theft? Perhaps the death penalty for speeding. Hey, don't speed then if you don't want to die.....rules of the game.

The rules need changed to accommodate reality.

 

[Moko]

I asked earlier and you didn't respond. How much is too much for simple possession before you rethink a broad statement such as this? 10 years in federal prison? 20 years? 40 years? Life ?

A fine of a coupla hundred bucks and some community service with no criminal conviction should be adequate for what ya mate did...

I agree, it's harsh, have been agreeing with you the whole way but if your mate wasn't aware of the consequences of the "crime", then he should've educated himself on it, weighed up the pro's and con's and decided if it was a reasonable risk worth taking...the pigs won't keep it a secret if you ring and ask what's the worst case senario for getting busted with "this"...most crims do know the law just as well as the cops, that's why they run...

At what point does your dismissive brush off stop, and you stand up and say that the penalty is the real crime?
Are we to start lobbing of limbs for theft? Perhaps the death penalty for speeding. Hey, don't speed then if you don't want to die.....rules of the game.

The rules need changed to accommodate reality.

Here in Australia if you rape and kill (no particular order) an individual you more than likely will be out of jail in less than 15 years...THAT is a crime.

Yes you get more give and take with minor offences like possession, and sometimes you can get off lightly with cultivation and supply as well, but if you're looking for justice for your murdered missus then this ain't the place to be.

I can't think of a place where there is BALANCED justice, not that I know the law for every country, but in EVERY country it's about educating yourself and weighing up the pro's and con's of taking part in illegal activity...we all do it subconsciously everyday, speeding, beating lights etc etc...if you're gonna consciously take part in it then you need to know the consequences and it's your own fault if you don't...I KNOW I can potentially lose my drivers licence if I speed...so I don't overdo it.

 

[Jhony5]

I will admit he didn't make a concerted effort to travel around with narcotics in a safe manner. I have messed with narcotics for the better part of 20 years and have never once been in trouble. His mistake was complacency. Never have your dope in two bags. Never have possession of a considerable amount of dope and cash at the same time. Cardinal rules for safe travel with your stash.

Keeping your **** within reaching distance while you drive is paramount. You see it all the time on TV. People get pulled over and they "hide" their dope under the seat. YA, they'll never think to check there. Best place to stash your bag if you get pulled over.....your crotch. Right under your *****. Sounds nasty but it works. Worked for me on two different occasions in which I shoulda been busted outright.

I got pulled over years ago for having a brake light out (didn't know it was out) and it turned out that my license had been suspended over a mistake at the traffic court, which is an arrestable offense. The cops cut me a brake and didn't arrest me because they could tell I was being honest about not knowing I was suspended. As part of procedure they had to tow my truck. Well it was raining and cold and I had groceries, so the police were actually nice enough to offer me a ride home. Well as they had pulled me over I stuffed a newly bought half ounce in my crotch.

I accepted their offer for a ride. Well the officer said to me "we have to search you before getting into our vehicle, standard procedure". To late now to back down, so they leaned me against the truck I was about to ride in. As the officer was lovingly stroking his hands across my shapely body to check for contraband, I realized the vehicle I was about to be traveling in was also occupied by a ****** K-9.

Doooooooooooh I thought to my self as I asked the officer "Whats the dogs name". "Kilo", he responded. NOT GOOD. Not good at all.

Well that was a thrilling 10 minute drive home, listening to the animal pant and whine while sitting just behind me in his cage.

Life on the edge.

 

[Moko]

I will admit he didn't make a concerted effort to travel around with narcotics in a safe manner. I have messed with narcotics for the better part of 20 years and have never once been in trouble. His mistake was complacency. Never have your dope in two bags. Never have possession of a considerable amount of dope and cash at the same time. Cardinal rules for safe travel with your stash.Keeping your **** within reaching distance while you drive is paramount. You see it all the time on TV. People get pulled over and they "hide" their dope under the seat. YA, they'll never think to check there. Best place to stash your bag if you get pulled over.....your crotch. Right under your *****. Sounds nasty but it works. Worked for me on two different occasions in which I shoulda been busted outright.

EXACTLY...get smart, and keep your poo hole puckered...Because when you see those flashing lights in your rear view mirror, your bowels start going into convulsions and you age a day for every step they take towards your car.

Life on the edge.

The one reason I survive police checks for my bi-yearly career change is because I was "smart" during the years of partaking in pleasures of natures own herbal chardonnay (Pakistani skunk).

Somehow I got stuck with carrying a pound of weed from one part of town to another part, I was cruising along and came to a corner, I went around the corner and there was four police cars on the side of the road conducting a random breath test...needless to say, I went a lighter shade of albino (without the freaky pink eye thing ), and...I think I screamed, not sure about that but my soul did at least, I had nowhere to go...I approached the RBT and an officer stepped out on to the road, but not the center like they usually do....I was getting prepared too "play it cool", I was considering ******** my pants, I was considering running him over and then shooting myself after 16 hours of standoff at my parents place (just kidding)...I think I'll get arthritis from gripping the steering wheel so hard...and then... he just waved me through, four cars in front and they waved ME through...I became a devout Christian for the rest of that day and NEVER carried anymore than I could fit under my nuts (not much ) from that day on.

Getting through that was bigger than ANY high from drugs...fucken rush.

Be smart, educate yourself, and don't fucken whinge when you **** up and get caught...the rules of the game.

 

[Phantom]

Well that was a thrilling 10 minute drive home, listening to the animal pant and whine while sitting just behind me in his cage.
Life on the edge.

That is hysterical! I would have been on pins and needles. Too funny.

 

[builder]

exactly. I don't know why that is so hard for some to understand.

Flog a dead horse and you'll prolly get more satisfaction, Eddo.

 

[eddo]

Flog a dead horse and you'll prolly get more satisfaction, Eddo.

no kidding...