Women seeking abortions must view an ultrasound

[ImWithStupid]

I would normally agree with this, but just cannot when it comes to abortion because abortion is affecting more than the one deciding to have the abortion- it also affects the unborn baby. Someone needs to speak up for the God given right to life of the unborn, and forcing ultrasounds seems like a good start to me.

and yes, I think abortions as a form of post-conception birth control should be illegal.
either that, or post-term abortions should be completely legal...

So then you must agree with the situations that wez describes then. You should be forced to watch videos of cows and sheep being killed and slaughtered, prior to buying any chicken or beef for food because there are people who believe that it is wrong.

I too, don't agree with abortion, and if it is in fact wrong it should be made illegal. Until that point the patients rights to a medical procedure shouldn't be treated any differently than any other medical procedure.

 

[eddo]

So then you must agree with the situations that wez describes then. You should be forced to watch videos of cows and sheep being killed and slaughtered, prior to buying any chicken or beef for food because there are people who believe that it is wrong.

no, those peeps are idiots, lol


Human life is more valuable and precious that the life of food.

 

[ImWithStupid]

no, those peeps are idiots, lol


Human life is more valuable and precious that the life of food.

All the same. You're forcing someone to do something because of your belief system.

 

[hugo]

Do they have to have their eyelids stapled open to insure they watch?

 

[wez]

I think it is part of making a fully informed decision.

The laws, which were immediately challenged Tuesday by "pro-choice" groups, also allow doctors to withhold test results showing fetal defects.

Yep.. all about fully informing them for sound decision making..

 

[ToriAllen]

Also the same kind of people who are against eating meat who would love to force everyone eating at KFC to watch vids of chickens being pumped with steroids and slaughtered before you can eat it.

Vids of cows being shot in the head and butchered in isle 2.. bring your official verification of viewing to the meat counter if you still want that steak you immoral *******!

You belong to PETA Tori? Even if ya don't.. you must agree they have the right to forcibly inform you of your decision.. no wrong no guilt then no problem eh?

Come on guys, please. The chicken slaughtering argument isn't going to work here. I wouldn't care if I had to watch the thing get slaughtered or not. If you want to slaughter it in front of me before I eat it, all the better; At least I know it's fresh. When I eat chicken or beef, I know exactly where it comes from and have no problem with it. I don't understand why people are so f'in touchy. What, they didn't realize it was a baby before they saw the ultrasound? Please. Those that really didn't have any problems with what they were doing before the ultrasound, won't have any problems after. So yes, no wrong, no guilt, no problem. Heck, give me the darn knife and I'll slaughter the chicken myself. Talk about crap argument. Stop trying to appeal to my 'human side'. I don't have one.

 

[ToriAllen]

The laws, which were immediately challenged Tuesday by "pro-choice" groups, also allow doctors to withhold test results showing fetal defects.

Yep.. all about fully informing them for sound decision making..

Yeah, and I don't agree with that part of the law, which I'm pretty sure I already stated, so if you want to make some kind of point with regard to that part of the law, don't 'half-quote' me to do it. I already said, I don't agree with the lecturing and guilting. I believe every human should act rationally based on ALL the facts, and that goes for ANY procedure.

 

[ToriAllen]

Do they have to have their eyelids stapled open to insure they watch?

I think they have special medical tape...

 

[ImWithStupid]

Come on guys, please. The chicken slaughtering argument isn't going to work here. I wouldn't care if I had to watch the thing get slaughtered or not. If you want to slaughter it in front of me before I eat it, all the better; At least I know it's fresh. When I eat chicken or beef, I know exactly where it comes from and have no problem with it. I don't understand why people are so f'in touchy. What, they didn't realize it was a baby before they saw the ultrasound. Please. Those that really didn't have any problems with what they were doing before the ultrasound, won't have any problems after. So yes, no wrong, no guilt, no problem. Heck, give me the darn knife and I'll slaughter the chicken myself. Talk about crap argument. Stop trying to appeal to my 'human side'. I don't have one.

Same with the chicken or cow. Didn't people realize that the food they were eating was an animal? A chicken or cow. If they were planning on eating it before watching it be slaughtered, I'm sure they would have no problem being forced to watch the process right before eating them.

The issue isn't pro-life/pro-choice, vegan/vegitarian/omnivore. It's government intrusion.

Government should never force someone to be informed of anything before making a decision. If the government wants to mandate that the ultrasound be made available should the patient CHOOSE to see it. Fine. But to mandate the patient be forced to view the ultrasound prior to the procedure is going too far.

My state tried to pass this and I was happy it failed.

 

[wez]

Come on guys, please. The chicken slaughtering argument isn't going to work here. I wouldn't care if I had to watch the thing get slaughtered or not. If you want to slaughter it in front of me before I eat it, all the better; At least I know it's fresh. When I eat chicken or beef, I know exactly where it comes from and have no problem with it. I don't understand why people are so f'in touchy. What, they didn't realize it was a baby before they saw the ultrasound. Please. Those that really didn't have any problems with what they were doing before the ultrasound, won't have any problems after. So yes, no wrong, no guilt, no problem. Heck, give me the darn knife and I'll slaughter the chicken myself. Talk about crap argument. Stop trying to appeal to my 'human side'. I don't have one.

hahaha.. whatever.. don't play f cking stupid.. it's not about chickens.. it's about imposing moral beliefs on people.. trying to appeal to your human side? Trying to appeal to your lawyer side.. what.. didn't have an ethics course?

What's the ultrasound mandatory for? Informing them of what? They need a lesson to inform them that allowing a pregnancy to go to term will result in the birth of a human being and not a chicken?

How long ya gonna pretend it's not about lecturing and guilting which you just stated again you don't believe in?

If you're gonna continue.. at least show me what ya learned in school.. counselor. What do they need to be forcibly lectured and informed of?

 

[wez]

Yeah, and I don't agree with that part of the law, which I'm pretty sure I already stated, so if you want to make some kind of point with regard to that part of the law, don't 'half-quote' me to do it. I already said, I don't agree with the lecturing and guilting. I believe every human should act rationally based on ALL the facts, and that goes for ANY procedure.

Okay.. here's the point.. it validates the obvious fact that the purpose of the laws are to steer a person into making a decision that a group of self righteous pompous assholes want them to make.. or else.

Take away the fact that it allows them to withhold information and make them provide all information on birth defects changes nothing.. Lecturing and guilting is the intention of the "laws".. which of course you don't believe in.. right?

And where did I half quote you? Where did you say you don't agree with that part of the "laws"? cut and paste it.. cuz it doesn't exist..

 

[wez]

I believe every human should act rationally based on ALL the facts, and that goes for ANY procedure. ~ Tori

How about we force all women who choose to give birth to watch a video reenactment of Andrea Yates drowning her 5 children while suffering from untreated postpartum depression and insane religious beliefs? .. This could happen to you and you need ALL the facts for ANY procedure.. You sure you wanna give birth?

Sounds a tad ridiculous eh?

 

[ImWithStupid]

I believe every human should act rationally based on ALL the facts, and that goes for ANY procedure. ~ Tori

How about we force all women who choose to give birth to watch a video reenactment of Andrea Yates drowning her 5 children while suffering from untreated postpartum depression and insane religious beliefs? .. This could happen to you and you need ALL the facts for ANY procedure.. You sure you wanna give birth?

It's times like this and posts like this that show why wez is a valued member, unlike some others.

It doesn't matter if it's an unborn child or a terrorist, his values are mostly the same.

 

[hugo]

hahaha.. whatever.. don't play f cking stupid.. it's not about chickens.. it's about imposing moral beliefs on people..

There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? Barry Goldwater

There was a time when conservatives were for less government.

 

[hugo]

http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/

Chopping off their beaks! What total assholes! I ain't eating at KFC no more. Thanks, Pam. You are a great human being.

 

[hugo]

Be very careful when encouraging government power. It will come back and bite ya in the ass.

 

[ToriAllen]

First of all, a person does not have to take an all or nothing view of every issue. I rarely do. Because of that, it is perfectly reasonable for me to say I do not believe in the lecture and guilt part, but I do agree with the more information part. You are looking at it from an abortion argument/big government view point, because those are your concerns. They are valid concerns, however I'm a knowledge and information based person. The more the better. Although I'm not a fan of 'big government', I am a fan of knowledge. I do not understand people who don't want to know everything about a situation before they make a decision. That's ridiculous. I do think before any procedure, and I mean any procedure, the patient should be fully informed of all sides, pro's and con's. A desire not to be fully informed points to possible psychological and emotional issues that need to be addressed.

The woman that drowned her kids? Really? That seems like a logical connection to you? An ultrasound is the same as drowning kids tape? That makes sense in you head?
I didn't realize she had made a tape.....

 

[hugo]

Although I'm not a fan of 'big government', I am a fan of knowledge. I do not understand people who don't want to know everything about a situation before they make a decision.

Somehow I managed to get a degree in Economics without watching a single video on the subject.

A desire not to be fully informed points to possible psychological and emotional issues that need to be addressed.

I like hotdogs. Don't really wanta see the manufacturing process (I bet chicken beaks are utilized). Guess I got mental issues.

 

[wez]

First of all, a person does not have to take an all or nothing view of every issue. I rarely do. Because of that, it is perfectly reasonable for me to say I do not believe in the lecture and guilt part, but I do agree with the more information part. You are looking at it from an abortion argument/big government view point, because those are your concerns. They are valid concerns, however I'm a knowledge and information based person. The more the better. Although I'm not a fan of 'big government', I am a fan of knowledge. I do not understand people who don't want to know everything about a situation before they make a decision. That's ridiculous. I do think before any procedure, and I mean any procedure, the patient should be fully informed of all sides, pro's and con's. A desire not to be fully informed points to possible psychological and emotional issues that need to be addressed.

Second of all.. keep on dancing around the fact the "knowledge and information" is mandated by a law to be force fed to someone by means of a picture on a video screen in an attempt to cause emotional pain to coerce them into making a desired decision..

Third of all.. define the knowledge and information that is so pertinent as to warrant such a law in this case..

Stupidest of all, A desire not to be FORCED to be fully informed of possible outcomes from postpartum depression ala Andrea Yates for women who choose to give birth points to possible psychological and emotional issues that need to be addressed.

The woman that drowned her kids? Really? That seems like a logical connection to you? An ultrasound is the same as drowning kids tape? That makes sense in you head?

Forcing "information" on someone to attempt to cause pain = forcing "information" on someone to attempt to cause pain.. Logic is perfectly sound.. This doesn't make sense in your head?

I didn't realize she had made a tape.....

How about we force all women who choose to give birth to watch a video reenactment...

reenact - enact: act out; represent or perform as if in a play; "She reenacted what had happened earlier that day"

All clear on that?

Wanna talk about people trying to impose moral judgments on other people by making laws forcing them to be "informed" of something in an attempt to cause emotional pain or ya wanna keep playing stupid?

 

[ImWithStupid]

First of all, a person does not have to take an all or nothing view of every issue. I rarely do. Because of that, it is perfectly reasonable for me to say I do not believe in the lecture and guilt part, but I do agree with the more information part. You are looking at it from an abortion argument/big government view point, because those are your concerns. They are valid concerns, however I'm a knowledge and information based person. The more the better. Although I'm not a fan of 'big government', I am a fan of knowledge. I do not understand people who don't want to know everything about a situation before they make a decision. That's ridiculous. I do think before any procedure, and I mean any procedure, the patient should be fully informed of all sides, pro's and con's. A desire not to be fully informed points to possible psychological and emotional issues that need to be addressed.

The woman that drowned her kids? Really? That seems like a logical connection to you? An ultrasound is the same as drowning kids tape? That makes sense in you head?
I didn't realize she had made a tape.....

The difference is, that a law that makes it so that an abortion clinic must make information available = good.

A law that makes an abortion clinic force someone to view/be exposed to information mandatory = bad.

An explanation so simple even a lawyer could understand it.