[World War III]

[acdcrules04]

@Vash. A discription of the 2nd DVD that I watched (It was a set of 2 DVD's)

HIROSHIMA: THE DECISION TO DROP THE BOMB takes an in-depth look at the steps leading to America's fateful decision. Was Japan already on the verge of surrender? Or was Truman's motivation ultimately political? Get the full story in this revealing, powerful program.

 

[Friðbjörn]

Naw man, not you... heh.

I was making a statement that Bush graduated from the University of Duh because he thinks that we're completely oblivious to this stuff. You know... killing civilians.

"I can't believe the United States killed Civilians!"
"But they're Terrorists!!"
"I know. That explains the frightened looks on their faces!"
"No, not us, them!"
"Oh, I thought you said 'we're terrorists'"

ah...okay makes sense to me now.

yeah...it's unbelievable



I can't even begin to understand how anyone would agree to the a-bombing of two cities...

and that's not something you can justify with say, pearl harbour...that was a military base

 

[acdcrules04]

I can't even begin to understand how anyone would agree to the a-bombing of two cities...

Exactly. That is what really gets me, they were innocent civilians. They weren't in the Japanese army. And it wasn't just a one time thing, were people only died when they dropped the bombs. People were affected by the radiation. By affected I mean killed.

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

Yep, thank god we dropped those bombs on Japan or the war or else so many American lives would've been at risk. Even though, the dropping of the bombs sparked wars to come and nuclear tension between Russia and the United States. So dropping the bombs technically caused more American casualties spanning for generations to come rather than limited to the WWII era.

They wouldn't have laid their arms down? As a matter of fact, Japan was already at surrender and planning on how to resolve the aftermath repercussions, but America would not accept a surrender unless it was fully unconditional.

Also, I think it's ****ed up to bomb non-military zones. I'm not going to preach the values of military servicemen over civilians but the soldiers are there to protect the civilians. Therefore, the war should be soley be between the militaries involved, not the wife, kids, and families of the soldiers. It would be analogous to someone bombing us in Nevada or New Jersey.

During the First Sino-Japanese War, Hiroshima emerged as a major supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. This role continued until World War II, making it an important military target for hostile forces.

With the Meiji Restoration, Nagasaki quickly began to assume some economic dominance. Its main industry was ship-building. This very industry would eventually make it a target in World War II, since many warships used by the Japanese Navy during the war were built in its factories and docks.

Tell me how Hiroshima & Nagasaki aren't military targets again.

 

[Friðbjörn]

Tell me how Hiroshima & Nagasaki aren't military targets again.

That doesn't justify to me what was done.

 

[acdcrules04]

Ok, yes they were military targets. I didn't say they weren't. I'm just saying that countless Japanese CIVILLIANS died. I know that civillains die all the time, but I'm a girl so I suppose I'm supposed to get emotional over things like this.

edit: If I recall correctly they missed when the dropped the bomb in Nagasaki, they hit near it. True there wasn't as many civillians in Nagasaki as Hiroshima. If my memory serves me they hit a valley near Nagasaki and that kind of contained the blast a bit. But people still died.

 

[Reflectionist]

@Vash. A discription of the 2nd DVD that I watched (It was a set of 2 DVD's)

HIROSHIMA: THE DECISION TO DROP THE BOMB takes an in-depth look at the steps leading to America's fateful decision. Was Japan already on the verge of surrender? Or was Truman's motivation ultimately political? Get the full story in this revealing, powerful program.

I took a World War 2 Class last year. Apparently they were getting pretty close to Japan in the Pacific Theatre, and were planning the attack on Tokyo and everything, but when Roosevelt died, Truman was kind of a n00b, he didn't know how to give orders or anything, so instead of having a real big operation planned, and have to do all that ****, he just dropped tha A-Bomb. A lot easier, I guess. What did he care about the civilians? The civlians didn't matter as much as wanting the end of the war to come easy. And it's not like it was just a town, there were numerous military targets there..

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

That doesn't justify to me what was done.

I'm not endorsing the dropping of the atomic bombs, there's much better ways. But to say that the two cities had no miltaristic value is false.

 

[djwakka]

Tell me how Hiroshima & Nagasaki aren't military targets again.

You're citations don't prove anything except that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were industrial cities. That's like saying that New York is a military-zone because they have factories in which civilians make equipment for the US army.

 

[acdcrules04]

You're citations don't prove anything except that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were industrial cities. That's like saying that New York is a military-zone because they have factories in which civilians make equipment for the US army.

Exactly. At least when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor is was a MILITARY BASE. Before you attack me, I'm not saying that it was ok for the Japanese to attack, it wasn't ok, my great grandpa was at Pearl harbor, right next to the Arizona. He didn't die, thank god, but I have heard a direct eye-witness account of Pearl Harbor. That was kind of off topic, but still, whatever. The point is that PH was a military base, not an industrial city.

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

Yes, they were industrial cities with a supply base in one, & a military ship-yard in the other, therefore classifing them as military targets.
New York could be classified as a military target for making supplies, but I'm sure hostile forces attacking would go for ship-yards/aircraft plants/training bases first.
The Trade Center Towers were hit because they were the biggest financial center in New York.

 

[FireHawk]

In both of the citites (Nagasaki and Hiroshima) I heard on the history channel people from the military were hinding in the basement of schools because they didn't think US would attack with children around....

 

[Reflectionist]

Yes, they were industrial cities with a supply base in one, & a military ship-yard in the other, therefore classifing them as military targets.
New York could be classified as a military target for making supplies, but I'm sure hostile forces attacking would go for ship-yards/aircraft plants/training bases first.
The Trade Center Towers were hit because they were the biggest financial center in New York.

I don't know man, if you cut off their supplies, the ship-yards don't have ships, the aircraft hangers don't have aircraft, the training bases don't have guns.... make sense? Japan was forced to end the war.

And Japan is an Island. So they couldn't get their troops off the land unless they had a shipyard, the one in Nagasaki was probably used a BUNCH of times.

 

[FireHawk]

I don't know man, if you cut off their supplies, the ship-yards don't have ships, the aircraft hangers don't have aircraft, the training bases don't have guns.... make sense? Japan was forced to end the war.

And Japan is an Island. So they couldn't get their troops off the land unless they had a shipyard, the one in Nagasaki was probably used a BUNCH of times.

And that is exactly what you want

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

I don't know man, if you cut off their supplies, the ship-yards don't have ships, the aircraft hangers don't have aircraft, the training bases don't have guns.... make sense? Japan was forced to end the war.

And Japan is an Island. So they couldn't get their troops off the land unless they had a shipyard, the one in Nagasaki was probably used a BUNCH of times.

Well, ship-yards don't get their supplies from one place, they get it from all over the country, I'm speaking of America by the way.
Same thing with aircraft.
Weapons? Well, about 75% of all the personal weapons the US Military uses come from the Springfield Armory in Illinois.
Again, I'm only speaking of the US

 

[djwakka]

Yes, they were industrial cities with a supply base in one, & a military ship-yard in the other, therefore classifing them as military targets.
New York could be classified as a military target for making supplies, but I'm sure hostile forces attacking would go for ship-yards/aircraft plants/training bases first.
The Trade Center Towers were hit because they were the biggest financial center in New York.

Then according to your thin line between industrial and military, every state and county in our country is a military target except for the few rural areas which have no connection to the army whatsoever.

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

I'm done here. I know when to take defeat. Wakka, You're right.
Good discussion

 

[Solid Snake]

If we wouldn't have dropped the bombs, we would have had to invade the Japanese homeland, therefore losing countless lives. Do think the Japanese would have let a homeland invasion slide? Even the citizens would have picked up arms. They were estimating hundreds of thousands of lives in the invasion alone. The bomb did save lives, just not in the best of light.

No! The Japanese already surrender and there wasn't going to be an invasion. The reason for the A bombs was to show the world that the US was in control and to scare the **** out of Russia. The President said later on in a radio show that they were dropped on military bases, but they weren't. They were dropped on heavily populated towns.

A mother was carrying her baby at the time and it caught on fire, she ran down to the river and submerge the child in the water but the flames only grew, the river itself was burning. The flesh melted of the victims while they were still alive and running to try to somehow escape the flames.

After it was all said in done; those two bombs killed over 3 million people. And you can't possibly imagine the birth defects that other people had to live with.

 

[djwakka]

I'm done here. I know when to take defeat. Wakka, You're right.
Good discussion

I commend you for having the balls to wave the white flag. It's an extremely rare sight in this forum where people are constantly at eachothers' throats and hold grudges against people until they finally leave. Which is probably why you're an admin in the first place.

This is a community. And for a community, some people voice their opinions way too agressively and immaturely which causes others to react accordingly, and pollutes the forum with unnecessary "F U's" and ignorance. (Not directed to anyone)

(P.S. What I think after reading the renominations thread)

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

I commend you for having the balls to wave the white flag. It's an extremely rare sight in this forum where people are constantly at eachothers' throats and hold grudges against people until they finally leave. Which is probably why you're an admin in the first place.

This is a community. And for a community, some people voice their opinions way too agressively and immaturely which causes others to react accordingly, and pollutes the forum with unnecessary "F U's" and ignorance. (Not directed to anyone)

(P.S. What I think after reading the renominations thread)

Indeed. I'm only a mod though. ^_^