timesjoke

I understand the words but the words are a lie, the same man also said this would be "deficit-neutral" but we have shown clearly that is a lie as well. Obama is telling lies, and gullible people like you swallow those lies just because your star struck, Obama can do no wrong in your eyes, that is why your the excuse machine. It is my problem because it is "MY TAX MONEY". Actually it would severely increase premiums to pay for income they can't get out of the Government plan, they will work like Medacare and say "take it or leave it" on reimbursement. The more people on the Government plan, the less money doctors can make on services so they will try to make it back from people with good insurance. Certainly different coverages will be offered but competing against the Government plan that does not have to make a profit will eventually eliminate them, not right away, even Obama said it will take about ten years to run them out of business. Because it is not in our best interests, it is bad for the Country, bad for All Americans, Bad for our economy, bad in every way, the only good thing about this bill is it helps to fill the socialist agends (good in their eyes, not mine). As I already pointed out, the Government plan paying around half as much as regular plans will pay out will still force private insurance companies to be soaked for what they can't get out of the Government. As private insurance companies slowly go out of business, hospitals and doctors offices will close because they will not be able to pay their bills. That means less access, long waiting lines, and more sick people who can't get medical care because the Government will be too broke to pay for the bill they caused. As far as what "I" like about my insurance, hell yes I love my insurance. I get fast and great medical care and with my gap insurance, I actually make money when I have a hospital stay, when my kids were born I got about $1500 back over and above the cost of care from the gap, lol. But. My employer has said they will be dropping our Company health insurance if this bill passes. The estimated cost increases will force our premiums to twice what they are now and they will only have to pay a penalty of 8% on payrol if they drop insurance, that is way less than the cost of the insurance, it is called a business decision, nothing personal And this is why I say Obama's claim that people will be able to keep their current coverage if they like it is a lie. No, they do not directly eliminate existing coverage, but they mandate coverage changes to existing insurance as well as create a unfair competition that will force people into the Government plan because there will be nowhere else to go.

I think a large portion of Hell just froze over

Imagine what those things will look like when she is 80, lol Here is another one: [attach=full]1650[/attach]

Edward Kennedy's Senate Seat Stirs Political Storm - WSJ.com I find it intersting that Liberals never want to live by their own rules. They see nothing wrong with making last minute law changes to thwart Republicans but the second the same law harms them, they are also the first to cry about how unfair their own law was and try to change it. Hypocrites

The problem is Bender, most people are not upset at their insurance provider. Every study, every poll shows that almost all Americans are happy with their healthcare. That is why Obama has had to completely change his wording away from healthcare reform to insurance reform, the people were not responding. The same is true for the reform message as well, the people on the whole get great medical care so when Obama says he wants to force all Americans to accept a massive increase in Government spending to change something they are happy about, it gets their attention and they speak out. That is why Obama's popularity rating is dropping so low in general, and that is why the overall support for this medical care power grap is loosing support so fast, finally people see that Obama is not telling the truth about what the many bills have inside them. By the way, the real number of uninsured is around 15 million, not 47, they count illegals and people on medicare or other programs in their 47 million number, and you don't need to hand 20% of our economy over to the Federal Government to provide 15 million people some access to medical care. I believe the final straw that broke the liberals/socialists back on this issue was calling real concerned Americans fake protestors, unamerican, and angry mobs who were expressing fake concerns. That pissed a lot of people off, in one case a friend of mine's parents went to one of the meetings here in Florida and again the protestors were called ugly names by this Obama administration. Before his parents were involved he really never placed an identity on the blanket accusations of Obama against the protestors but after his parents went to their first protest suddenly he saw the reality of just how bad and corrupt Obama really is. This man is and has always been a liberal supporter, and he just told me that he is changing to an independant and does not support Obamacare anymore. They insulted his parents............ Stupid move Obama.

"Death panels" are still in the agreements. Special panels of people will be responsible for much of the framework and policies that will be enforced, that is why everything in the bill seems so very vague, they will let the buracracy that forms around the bill to actually define it. These panels will be responsible for setting treatment policies and reimbuesement levels. Right now the agruement is (like Bender just used) is that Insurance companies do a kind of death panels themselves by setting up policies and guidelines for reimbursement that reduce access to certain treatments.........well that is what will also happen with the Government option and before you say well that is okay, it is the same thing you have to remember what kinds of people will be sitting on Obama's boards and what their financial goals will be for "SAVINGS". They promise to cut existing spending on folks on medicare by 500 Million dollars....now they already have the lowers reimbursement rates in medical circles for the same treatments. A doctor visit for example pays less under medicare than any other insurance company...... So how are they going to pay even less? By putting in place such barriers that you can't get the visit in the first place, maybe not restrict your access to a family doctor, but they will have to put into place restrictions for going to a specialist and getting many advanced treatments. These penels will have the job of creating the restrictions and access to your medical care, they will set up the specific buracracy and limit the amount of money they will pay for services that in turn will slow down and in some cases completely deny certain treatments as too expensive if your too old............that sounds like a death panel to me. For example, Grandma needs an operation to live, the Omaba panel decides she is too old for it to be cost effective, Grandma cannot get operation and she dies. Now to access: Already there is a very limited number of doctors who accept medicare because their reimbursement rates are too low for them to make a living, or they limit their mix of patients to just so many. This causes a kind of Canada problem because the number of seniors is increasing faster then the number of Doctors who will take them as patients because of their very low paying Medicare. Once everyone is forced on the Government plan, and there is no other option for Doctors to make a decent living, then we will have the severe shortages for doctors just like every other Country who has a socialist medical system. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Every Country who has done this has had the same result, Doctors do not want to work for such very low incomes allowed by the Government, and rationing must be put in place to control costs. What makes anyone think we can do the same as all the other Countries and have a different result?

I have already said my biggest dissapointment over the few years they had a majority (not 8 years but still...) was not passing tort reform. In many ways a lot of Republicans stopped being conservatives and transformed into partial liberals....but not all the way to socialists. I agree to a degree with your point Bender, but not putting those other things into motion then is not a good excuse to bypass those ideas now and go all the way to Government takeover of healthcare now. There are ways to improve our problems without spending more money we don't have. They just said the budget is worse then Obama had predicted buy another 2 trillion dollars..........2 trillion, that is not just an addition error, that is a massive mistake and we are being asked to put this halfbaked legislation into action based on this same level of math? I am sorry, the pricetag is too high and the benefits way, way too low for any thinking America to approve of such trash legislation that not one of our elected officials have even read yet. Anyone who actually reads all the different things Democrats want to impose will be chilled if their not a socialist. The IRS is mandated to release any and all information requested by healthcare workers from federal or state levels under the intention of assessing "affordability credits." Another interesting element? The IRS must release all requested information to the social security administration workers for the purpose of assessing drug subsidy qualifications even if you never applied for the assistance. Just these two things alone puts a lot of private and personal information out there at the finger tips of the lowest Government workers to use as they see fit. Could a worker needing some extra income figure out a way to see that information? Yep. And maybe that is the point, they want this kind of information to be available to everyone else anyway.

This is one of the rare times I will slam law enforcement. This man was on lifetime probation from prior sex offenses during this entire time. While on probation, the probation officers are supposed to make surprise visits to the home and inspect those homes to be sure the offender is still behaving. Being as this man was on probation as a sex offender, looking around for captured sex slaves would be part of their responsibilities. I have not seen the list for this man, but it is considered normal for offenders to be swapped around to many different probation officers over the years with a long probation period. So this was not the failure of just one bad officer, it was the failure of many, many probation officers to do their jobs. Just sad. Sad that a little girl suffered many years of sexual abuse because of some lazy probation officers. Sad that this girl had two children by this rapist, and we know she didn't have reasonable medical care and neither did the children. This is one of those times a lawsuit is more than reasonable and I would be tempted to have serious words with the probation officers who had worked this case if I was the father of this girl.

I have to admit I really did not pay much attention to the details of this C4C program other then to notice more tax money (we don't have) being blindly tossed out the window and the horrible lack of planning that went with it but a new string of complaints have been popping up that I never considered before. This money must be claimed as income. Now it makes sense once you think about it but I don't remember that aspect ever being advertised by anyone and now from a few places I have been reading from, some people are upset because it is causing some unintended results. Many welfare programs and other things take into account your yearly income to qualify you and a surge of thousands of dollars could possibly cause an issue. Not reporting it can even be worse because the person conceiled the income, a kind of fraud. Now I do agree on one thing, those who took advantage of the Government "free money" should have taken the time to look deeper into the details of the program so I don't really feel bad for them, but I do have to say that this is another great example of there being no such thing as a free ride.

That has a nice sound to it

I agreed with IWS on what they would "try" to do, just that it will not work. Some news people touched on this big mistake today in that placing Kennedy's name on this will make it look more partisan than it already does. This bill is missing the support of moderates and conservatives, none of those kinds of people will be moved by naming the bill for a radical liberal. Kennedy was a "great man" in the political circles, but the average "Joe" in the midwest does not care about Kennedy or anyone else, they care about the out of control spending of Government and how this bill "severely" adds to that out of control spending. The average person cares about the dismantling of Medicare to rob from seniors to help pay for bad legislation that will reduce access to medical care, not increase it. The average American does not want Washington telling them they "must" buy insurance, many people even believe it is unconstitutional to try and make that kind of demand of the populace. My prediction is that there will be a reform bill passed but not a public option or the hidden public option co-ops that are being talked about. And it will amount to little or nothing in reality once put into motion.

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. " ~ Margaret Thatcher

You can say that again.......if she was mine she would not be allowed out of the house for any reason, lol. A Burka also comes to mind

The Republicans and other conservative groups have been offering these ideas and others like them for years eddo, this is not "NEW" just packaged differently. Bender and I guess now you just refuse to hear or see what has been offered all along as alternative ideas. Bender's point is to ignore all other ideas as if they do not exist if they do not include a Government takeover.

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I believe this just goes to prove that there are a lot of alternative ideas out there, unlike what Bender claims, but the Libs only want ideas that give the Government (them) more power over people's lives.

I tried to watch the video, says not available, could they have had it blocked? Found it on youtube: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoMNDdQ1_h0]YouTube - AARP Town Hall Meeting on Health Care - Dallas, August 4, 2009[/ame]

The Liberal/Socialist double standard is very clear indeed.

AARP is a Lobbyist too, all of their data is manfactured to give the result they want..........why? Because they sell insurance, in fact that is their primary concern, they have not been an advocate for the elderly for a very long time now. Don't forget the behind closed doors deals Obama is cutting with the drug companies to get their support. The drug companies are spending millions of dollars in commercials supporting Obama......why? Because they got a sweet deal to limit competition and to lock in current prices. The Obamacare is supported by just as many Lobbyists as are against it.

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But none of those things give Government more control so none of the Liberals and only about half of the Republicans would support them. The Republicans had the power at one time and never passed tort reform, that was my biggest dissapointment from them. America has already slipped and slid way down the socialist path and I fear that we will step the rest of the way down that path sooner or later. Sure, I want to delay it as long as possible, but eact time we turn around, we are fighting off more and more attempts to eliminate free enterprise and give the Government more power over our lives. Right now they already own the banking industry, and a big part of the domestic car production in America, will they get all or part of the healthcare? They certainly want it. When a government takes over a people?s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs. ~ Maxwell Anderson Legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways; hence, there are an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, bonuses, subsidies, incentives, the progressive income tax, free education, the right to employment, the right to profit, the right to wages, the right to relief, the right to the tools of production, interest free credit, etc., etc. And it the aggregate of all these plans, in respect to what they have in common, legal plunder, that goes under the name of socialism. ~ Frederic Bastiat

I don't see the blue dogs giving in, plus there are many other dems who know if they vote for this garbage it will cost them their next election. In my opinion Reconciliation is a bluff, here is why: They never had the full support of their own party or they would have just gone with their 60 votes a long time ago. They knew time was their enemy and the more of it that went by, the less support they would have for the socialist move so now they are trapped between a rock and a hard place. So now they are back to their usual tactic of making the Republicans look as bad as possible and force them to offer something as an appeasement of the Obama administration. Obama has the pen that signs the bills and there will be future legislation the Republicans want to all this drama is really just smoke screen for their admission that they have failed. But, they have failed in that too, the average American does not want this Government takeover of healthcare so this time the Democrats have actually made the Republicans look very good. And a lot of Democrats are going to lose their seats in the next election because of this ploy. Reed when from having a lead, to falling behind in his polls for the election almost overnight based almost completely of his handling of this government takeover attempt. Do not believe for a second that the other Democrats are not watching what is happeneing to Reed.

There are many variations on that, my favorite is: Gary who???? I do not think he felt bad about the killing of Mary Jo Kopechne, I believe he was trying to live it down with the public. And to a certain degree he was successful. There will be schools and stuff named after him, the President and a host of famous people will line up to sing his praises. A fancy funeral is sure to happen. Mary Jo Kopechne is forgotten. I guess that is possible as well, there can be many possibilities, but he sure seemed driven to transform America into a socialist playground.

I think he in many ways was trying to live down his shame for killing that girl and then using political games to get away with it. His completely radical socialist agenda was in my opinion his way of making amends for his horrible actions to society.