Christianity. Blasphemy. Brainwashing.

[sheik-yerbouti]

Stalin also drank lemonade, cut his toenails and lay in the sunshine in the summertime. But none of this, nor his bread eating caused him or others to become despots. They become despots for a variety of reasons, wealth, power, conquest. The discussion is about TJ?s claim that Atheists have killed 100 million people. This is a bit rich coming from a Theist, and a Christian especially.

Whether you like it or not Stalin was a Christian, as was Hitler. I would be happy to study any text you can produce which deals with his apostasy if you can find some.

I did not say that they were about Christianity. The deaths you speak of were not committed by Atheists. Again, I believe that Theists over the centuries have killed many more people than have Atheists.

The philosophies may be godless, but the men at the helm were Theists.

You also cite Fidel Castro, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot.

Castro was brought up a Christian. I'm presuming he was baptised and confirmed- Theist initiation rites.

Pol Pot studied in a Buddhist Monastery. This of course does not prove he was a Buddhist. But I very much doubt they would have made this investment in him were he not one.

Mao Tse Tung, had a devoutly religious Buddhist mother. I think its likely that she brought him up as one. Though I cannot be sure.

So then of these bad boys you list. Two were definitely Theists, the other three very likely Theists

I am simply defending Atheists from TJ,s incorrect charge that they were responsible for 100 million deaths. This is nonsense.

Perhaps they do. I do not agree with them. Without apostasy these Theists remain Theists.

Lead me to a source detailing his apostasy. I am expecting this man to be a relapsed Jew - A Theist.

Quite possibly, but Stalin was a Theist, and Pol Pot and Mao probably so.

Atheists are overwhelmingly liberal. That is convincing evidence they do not tend to be the logical beings they claim to be. The religion of secular humanism is the most foolish religion of all, and the only one that forces me to donate to their "church" (big government)

A little info:

Atheists may be overwhelmingly liberal. I find no fault in this in a social animal. Why do you consider Humanism to be foolish ?

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

A person does not need the public's permission to be any religion or an Athiest,.

I agree. But making ones position clear is always a good idea. You dont just become a divorcee by leaving your partner, you need the divorce papers. Similarly, if you wish to be an ex Theist, apostasy is appropriate.

It is not appropriate to damn bad guys in your group, and insist they belong to another group.

.[/QUOTE]

there is no need to announce it or tell anyone, a person's true beliefs is in his heart, not on his sleeve or on a piece of paper. .[/QUOTE]

Your system allows anyone to be anything they want in a moment, this is not at all satisfactory, hence divorce, apostasy, resignation, initiation. All statements of self position which are unambiguous.

.[/QUOTE]

I don't hate Atheist followers but they hate me and that distinction is telling..[/QUOTE]

I dont hate you or any other Theist. Worship what you like. It all seems so atavistic to me, I'd be ashamed to be doing what stone-age folks were doing

.[/QUOTE]

By the way sheik, I don't think you are stupid, I just see your admitting Hitler was an Atheist but not wanting to admit his actions were governed by his "true" beliefs is a tad silly. I am sure you are very smart in many ways..[/QUOTE]

I dont think you are stupid either.



.[/QUOTE]

But I will admit your not using quotes properly makes it more difficult to understand and reply to your posts.[/QUOTE]

Well, this is my latest try at getting it right. Lets see if it works.

 

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Shiek. It's much easier to read. I see all the right markings, but they're out of sequence...

when you start a quote [ quote ] the close tags have to follow, you can't open a new one. and they work in order. So, following [ quote=hugo;1641 ] should be [ / quote ] and that will make

this quote

much better and easier to read though. thanks for trying.


edit... I added alot of spaces so that you could see the tags as they are written.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

Shiek. It's much easier to read. I see all the right markings, but they're out of sequence...

when you start a quote [ quote ] the close tags have to follow, you can't open a new one. and they work in order. So, following [ quote=hugo;1641 ] should be [ / quote ] and that will make much better and easier to read though. thanks for trying.


edit... I added alot of spaces so that you could see the tags as they are written.

Thanks BM, sorry to be a pain in the rear. I shall refer to your post before posting again.

I have just discovered that Karl Mark was brought up in the Christian faith, though in name only pretty much. His father became a Christian one year before Karl's birth. Karl Marx was baptised in 1824 in Trier,Deutscheland.

 

[hugo]

The fact is men will seek power. They will use ideologies, secular and sacred, and abuse them. Through much of human history governmant and religion have been intertwined thus many crimes have been committed under the guise of religion. Secular humanism has really come into power since Darwin. The century following the publication of the Origin of Species turned out to be the bloodiest 100 years in human history.The root of almost all wars is competition for scarce resources, men will twist any ideology to benefit themselves. A less religious world produced more mayhem. Nature abhors a vacuum. When the godless gained power the result was an epidemic of human misery unmatched in human history.

Sain Paul was born a Jew and therefore is not a Christian.

 

[timesjoke]

I agree. But making ones position clear is always a good idea. You dont just become a divorcee by leaving your partner, you need the divorce papers. Similarly, if you wish to be an ex Theist, apostasy is appropriate.

What if "pretending" to be something you are not can have it's advantages?

Does a child molester run around saying in public what he truly is?

Or does he pretend to be something he is not to get access to what he desires?

That is Hitler in a nutshell, he was an Athiest, but he did not want to admit it in public

It is not appropriate to damn bad guys in your group, and insist they belong to another group.

.

I agree, so being as you already admitted Hitler was an Athiest believer, stop calling him anything else, accept him for what he was, an Athiest, one of your own.

Your system allows anyone to be anything they want in a moment, this is not at all satisfactory, hence divorce, apostasy, resignation, initiation. All statements of self position which are unambiguous.

What does a system have to do with anything, you are what you want to be, not what a government or a piece of paper says you are.

Hitler was an Athiest, even you admit he was an Athiest so obviously his actions were that of an Athiest.

I dont hate you or any other Theist. Worship what you like. It all seems so atavistic to me, I'd be ashamed to be doing what stone-age folks were doing.

Stone age people were eating, raising children, breathing, hunting, all sorts of things, are all of these things wrong just because they were done a long time ago?

If anything, modern religions have proven themselves by surviving the test of time. While Greek gods and such have come and gone, other faiths like christianity has endured the forge of time and that speaks to how true it really is.

But you do hate us religious people, you don't want to admit it here but your disrespectful tone and comments like this stone age snide comment shows you as intollerant and hateful to us, that is the most telling aspect of the Athiest condition we can possibly see.

Well, this is my latest try at getting it right. Lets see if it works.

Keep trying, you will get the hang of it.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

The fact is men will seek power. They will use ideologies, secular and sacred, and abuse them..

I agree. I think religiosity is not much of an issue for someone who is ruthless, perhaps even evil. They want power, wealth, control and empire, and will do whatever is necessary to get these things. Some Atheists are evil, some theists are evil. Some people from both these groups are wonderful people.

My point was that religiosity has been with us a long time, and most of us are theists and this has always been so, ever since we first prayed to river and star spirits. We are a deeply suspicious animal.If most people that have ever lived have been Theists. Then most nasty, groups with their nasty ambitions have been composed and led by Theists. It follows then that most murders were committed by religious people /groups/sects etc. So it can only be, that TJ is wrong in his assertion that Atheists have killed more people than Theists. 100 million was the claim.

Through much of human history governmant and religion have been intertwined thus many crimes have been committed under the guise of religion...

Agreed

Secular humanism has really come into power since Darwin. The century following the publication of the Origin of Species turned out to be the bloodiest 100 years in human history....

This time period also embraces the age of modern warfare,which gave man a new found capability to deal death and destruction hereto unimaginable. I think this has more to do with the history you cite than the publication of the origin of species.

The root of almost all wars is competition for scarce resources, men will twist any ideology to benefit themselves. ...

Some men will certainly twist any ideology to suit themselves, I agree. Certainly a great many wars have been fought in competition for resources.

A less religious world produced more mayhem. Nature abhors a vacuum. When the godless gained power the result was an epidemic of human misery unmatched in human history..

I cant agree here. The world has mostly always been religious. Who were these godless people you speak of ? We have already gone over the religiosity of Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Vlad the Impaler, Marx etc. Mostly, Theists, others probably Theists.

Sain Paul was born a Jew and therefore is not a Christian.

I have never heard of this gentleman. If as you say, he was a Jew, then he was a Theist.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

What if "pretending" to be something you are not can have it's advantages?

Does a child molester run around saying in public what he truly is?

Or does he pretend to be something he is not to get access to what he desires?.

That is Hitler in a nutshell, he was an Athiest, but he did not want to admit it in public..

Hitler was an initiated Christian. He seems to have been a non practising (relapsed) Christian, but a Christian nonetheless. At no time did he become an apostate as far as I am aware.

I agree, so being as you already admitted Hitler was an Athiest believer, stop calling him anything else, accept him for what he was, an Athiest, one of your own..

I admitted no such thing. I said that Hitler had some Atheist belief. This is not the same as saying he was an Atheist. I shall continue to call him what he was, a Christian.

What does a system have to do with anything, you are what you want to be, not what a government or a piece of paper says you are..

A declaration of self /belief is important to Christians and also to others. Hence confirmation, marriage, divorce,resignation, the priesthood etc You do not have the status that these rites/ ceremonies/ formalities confer unless you undertake the rites/ ceremonies/formalities. Even you must agree with that. But sometimes, things need not so grand as to require a ceremony. A public declaration that one no longer believes in any god from a Theist is sufficient for me and others to accept the new position of an individual. Without such declaration, Hitler, Stalin etc remain Christian in my estimation.

You seek to cast out your brothers Adolph and Josef from the church, but this can never be. They were Christians.

Hitler was an Athiest, even you admit he was an Athiest so obviously his actions were that of an Athiest..

I admited no such thing, see above.

Stone age people were eating, raising children, breathing, hunting, all sorts of things, are all of these things wrong just because they were done a long time ago?.

Certainly not, much the same is still practised today. I just think its a bit stone-age groveling about on your knees before an imaginary deity as our distant ancestors did.

If anything, modern religions have proven themselves by surviving the test of time. While Greek gods and such have come and gone, other faiths like christianity has endured the forge of time and that speaks to how true it really is..

mmmm

But you do hate us religious people, you don't want to admit it here but your disrespectful tone and comments like this stone age snide comment shows you as intollerant and hateful to us, that is the most telling aspect of the Athiest condition we can possibly see..

You are mistaken. I dont hate anyone, why would I ? Hate is a very toxic material. It harms those who indulge it just as much as those it is aimed at. No TJ. I do not hate you or any other Theist.

I am just amazed at how superstitious people are. They hate to spill salt, break mirrors, walk under ladders etc. They seem to sincerely believe that some thing out there, will cause them harm if they do any of these things.

They often like to get the tree-faerie on their side by "touching wood"

I can see how religion started all those years ago. Little seems to have changed. It seems that people cannot be rushed. They will wake up some time maybe, maybe not.

Keep trying, you will get the hang of it.

I see what needs to be done now. Thanks to BM and Snafu.

 

[timesjoke]

He was an Atheist by belief, because he came to believe that there was no god.

Here you clearly admit that Hitler was an Athiest. He cannot be a Christian if he does not believe that God exists.


If you are incapable of even taking ownership of your own admissions, I see no real reason to continue talking with you.



Hitler was an Athiest, I am done if you cannot accept that basic fact.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

Here you clearly admit that Hitler was an Athiest. He cannot be a Christian if he does not believe that God exists..

Not so, There I said that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, meaning that some of his beliefs if not all, were Atheistic.This does not mean that I think he was an Atheist . He was actually a lapsed Christian.

If you are incapable of even taking ownership of your own admissions, I see no real reason to continue talking with you..

No admission has been made. But feel free to stop talking with me if that is what you wish to do.

Hitler was an Athiest, I am done if you cannot accept that basic fact.

It is not a basic fact. Hitler was a Christian.

 

[Jhony5]

It is not obviously wrong to everyone, just to you and your fellow Athiest followers.

Stop calling me an atheist. I have said it 6 mother ing times you sucking hypocritical ing fairy tale believing mindless drone ass piece of dog dick. The first thing you did god dammit, was call me out for belittling religious people, when I'm just trying to have a religious debate. Then you proceed to stab at me with a short stick by continuously calling me an atheist, when I've said it clearly, I am an agnostic.

The only thing I'm entirely unwilling to believe in, are unsubstantiated ancient stories of mere men telling me answers to the utmost of unanswerable questions.

Its interesting to me, however, your use of the word "follower" in the above quote. I believe that all "followers" are fooling themselves into thinking they now have answers to unanswerable questions. Be they atheist or Christians, Catholics or Jews. I am none of the above.

As an agnostic I am often called a coward by others that "belong" to a group of common theology. Accused of being wishy-washy and/or afraid to decide. Silliness. Deciding to believe in something that I have no reason to believe, just because I want to belong to a gang/group/club/cult/whateverthefukyouwanttocallit.

By the way, nice try with the excuse making but the real reason there are no non-religious people helping others around the world is because they don't want to. Look in any town and who is it running the soup kitchens? There are more help programs run by churches than the government, maybe that should tell you something.

This is awful. Predominant religions such as Christianity have millions, perhaps billions, of dollars supporting their infrastructure. This is power gained centuries ago from endless warfare. In short, they have resources that non-denominational folks don't have. Christians do alot for their fellow man. I never protested that fact. To address your sweeping generalization that claimed "All atheist/non-religious people don't care", well thats just awful. Elitist garbage. I pointed it out already, and you failed to address it. Atheist/agnostics contribute millions to charity and relief organizations.

Jhony5, you did call all religious followers stupid and in the same post you just showed, you did it again with a backward way of saying the same thing:

No I didn't. I said this;

"I have no idea how an intelligent person can subscribe to ideas that are so obviously wrong"

I said it right there. Its right there. Whats wrong? So many trees in your way that you can't see the wood?
Here, I'll post it again.

"I have no idea how an intelligent person can subscribe to ideas that are so obviously wrong"

Here I mean to say, I find many devout Christians to be very intelligent, not STUPID.

so obviously wrong[/COLOR"]"

Obvious to me. Maybe not to you or him, or her, or that one guy, or that other one guy. You're an intelligent guy. I never said you weren't.
Yes I find the ideas of religion to be stupid. Why intelligent people believe stupid things, cannot be explained by science.

Lots of very intelligent people believe that aliens abduct them sometimes while they sleep. Some intelligent people believe that wearing tinfoil hats will prevent government rays from accessing their brains. Some intelligent people believe that when their nose itches, it means people are talking about them. Some intelligent people believe that the earth was flooded by an angry god, sparing only one man to float around on a boat that somehow contained, fed and cared for millions of species of animals and insects.

The human mind is a funny thing. Maybe you're not stupid, TJ. Maybe you're just a crazy mutha a.

Stop calling me an atheist. Asshole.

 

[timesjoke]

Stop calling me an atheist. I have said it 6 mother ing times you sucking hypocritical ing fairy tale believing mindless drone ass piece of dog dick. The first thing you did god dammit, was call me out for belittling religious people, when I'm just trying to have a religious debate. Then you proceed to stab at me with a short stick by continuously calling me an atheist, when I've said it clearly, I am an agnostic.

You know what they say, the most painful thing to many people is the truth.

Agnostic people do not take sides, you have taken sides and even attack believers calling them stupid, you are not truly agnostic based on your actions.


Your possitions are clearly Athiest so if you want me to stop calling you Athiest, stop talking like one.

Remember, actions speak louder than words.

The only thing I'm entirely unwilling to believe in, are unsubstantiated ancient stories of mere men telling me answers to the utmost of unanswerable questions.

So your Athiest.

Why does the truth hurt you so?

You can call me a christian hetrosexual all day long and it does not bother me but call a homosexual a homosexual and he gets angry and the same seems to be true with those of the Athiest belief structure, I can only believe it is based in their being ashamed of themselves.

Its interesting to me, however, your use of the word "follower" in the above quote. I believe that all "followers" are fooling themselves into thinking they now have answers to unanswerable questions. Be they atheist or Christians, Catholics or Jews. I am none of the above.

But your attacks on religion in general and religious people in specific shows your true leanings.

As an agnostic I am often called a coward by others that "belong" to a group of common theology. Accused of being wishy-washy and/or afraid to decide. Silliness. Deciding to believe in something that I have no reason to believe, just because I want to belong to a gang/group/club/cult/whateverthefukyouwanttocallit.

But you have decided even if you don't want to openly admit it. You have openly attacked religion, that is something an Agnostic would never do.

This is awful. Predominant religions such as Christianity have millions, perhaps billions, of dollars supporting their infrastructure. This is power gained centuries ago from endless warfare. In short, they have resources that non-denominational folks don't have. Christians do alot for their fellow man. I never protested that fact. To address your sweeping generalization that claimed "All atheist/non-religious people don't care", well thats just awful. Elitist garbage. I pointed it out already, and you failed to address it. Atheist/agnostics contribute millions to charity and relief organizations.

There is nothing stopping an Athiest from doing things like helping to deliver hot meals to those that need it. I have been doing this for over 20 years and not one non-religious person has ever come down to help out.

The concept of being an Athiest is based is selfishness. A need to do what you want without feeling shame or guilt for being selfish. That is why there are no non-religious groups of any kind helping communities.


By the way, do you think these helping groups just came from nowhere? All of these groups started from nothing, my own church started out as a small country church and we now fund three orphanages in third world Countries.

If Athiests were interested in helping communities in any way, they could easily start out as we did but there is not even one Athiest group out there helping comminities. Nothing is stopping them from forming their own groups if the desire is there to do so.

No I didn't. I said this;

I said it right there. Its right there. Whats wrong? So many trees in your way that you can't see the wood?

You clearly say there is no way a believer can be intelligent, that is saying they are stupid, I am not going to play semantics with you.

Here I mean to say, I find many devout Christians to be very intelligent, not STUPID.

That is not what you said, I can't speak on what you meant to say.

You say we believe in something "so obviously wrong" and again, that is calling believers stupid, there is no other way to take that statement.

Religious beliefs are not obviously wrong, they are wrong "for you" but not for me and your constant stream of attacks and insults clearly show how intolerant you are.

Obvious to me. Maybe not to you or him, or her, or that one guy, or that other one guy. You're an intelligent guy. I never said you weren't.
Yes I find the ideas of religion to be stupid. Why intelligent people believe stupid things, cannot be explained by science.

There you go again, you say we are stupid in a back hand way over and over, you just keep switching the words around.

Lots of very intelligent people believe that aliens abduct them sometimes while they sleep. Some intelligent people believe that wearing tinfoil hats will prevent government rays from accessing their brains. Some intelligent people believe that when their nose itches, it means people are talking about them. Some intelligent people believe that the earth was flooded by an angry god, sparing only one man to float around on a boat that somehow contained, fed and cared for millions of species of animals and insects.

Now your just playing stupid, you know you attacked all religious believers, and your constand belittling our beliefs shows your true nature, even if you don't want to admit it.

The human mind is a funny thing. Maybe you're not stupid, TJ. Maybe you're just a crazy mutha a.

So just maybe I am not stupid?

See what I mean?


You can't talk to a religious person without making direct or sideways attacks about them being stupid.

Stop calling me an atheist. Asshole.

Stop acting like one then, I don't know you so all I can do is judge you according to what you say and in this case, what you attack.

You keep putting down religious ideals and calling religious people stupid from many different angles, Agnostic people don't do that.

I have many Agnostic friends and as a part of their standards, they will never talk about religion from either side, their belief is based on taking a side, but you have obviously taken a side based on your open hostility.

 

[Jhony5]

You see, this is why I don't like labels. They are too generic. Usually when I'm asked "What are you, Christian, atheist?", I answer " I'm ken".

Labels are dysfunctional. Not even Christians can agree what a Christian is.

So Allow me to explain myself as best as I can. I am an anti-theist, but unlike atheist one who believes that there is no deity ), I believe nothing that cannot be proven to me. That goes both ways brother. It cannot be proven there is a god, it cannot be proven there is no god.

But I attack theism ardently, because it is flawed. It is poisonous. The same for Atheism. For one to empirically deny the possibility of the existence of a god is outright madness. Its a shortcut to thinking, and for anyone of any denomination, or lack thereof, to wholeheartedly draw out their own conclusions in an attempt to answer the most unanswerable questions, well thats just so "human". Silly ing humans. Gotta believe in something.

There is nothing stopping an Atheist from doing things like helping to deliver hot meals to those that need it. I have been doing this for over 20 years and not one non-religious person has ever come down to help out.

Does it surprise you that non-religious people fail to show up to a religious gathering organized by a church?

You can't talk to a religious person without making direct or sideways attacks about them being stupid.

I'll say it again. Intelligent people do stupid things, and believe in stupid ideas. Its not a phenomenon. Its quite common.

Are you gonna tell me that to state the world is only about 10,000 years old IS NOT a stupid thing to believe? Being that its not only wrong, but insanely inaccurate to the degree that a 3rd grade school child knows the truth about it. Go on. Say it. Say its not a stupid thing to believe.

 

[timesjoke]

You see, this is why I don't like labels. They are too generic. Usually when I'm asked "What are you, Christian, atheist?", I answer " I'm ken".

Labels are dysfunctional. Not even Christians can agree what a Christian is.

Real Christians can agree, it is the false believers that have problems defining their beliefs. Man is an error filled thing, we are complex and sometimes our complexity can confuse us to not truly understand who and what we are.

So Allow me to explain myself as best as I can. I am an anti-theist, but unlike atheist one who believes that there is no deity ), I believe nothing that cannot be proven to me. That goes both ways brother. It cannot be proven there is a god, it cannot be proven there is no god.

But I attack theism ardently, because it is flawed. It is poisonous. The same for Atheism. For one to empirically deny the possibility of the existence of a god is outright madness. Its a shortcut to thinking, and for anyone of any denomination, or lack thereof, to wholeheartedly draw out their own conclusions in an attempt to answer the most unanswerable questions, well thats just so "human". Silly ing humans. Gotta believe in something.

Well, you are a very confusing creature to be sure. All I have seen you do is attack religion in all forms and even attack anyone who proclaims a belief in religion and these actions of yours do not match up to being what you just claimed so what do we judge you by?

Do we say all your attacks against religion are meaningless or do we give those blind attacks weight to decide who you are in reality?

I must say you are what you do and your actions and attacks make you an Athiest, maybe you will offer some balance to your attacks but so far, you are 100% bashing religion in all it;s forms.

Does it surprise you that non-religious people fail to show up to a religious gathering organized by a church?

Recently they have been doing it to attack religious people. A clear sign of intolerance.

I'll say it again. Intelligent people do stupid things, and believe in stupid ideas. Its not a phenomenon. Its quite common.

But calling someone stupid only based on their belief structure is the height of intolerance. You show your anger and hatred for religion in general by making attacks like that.

Are you gonna tell me that to state the world is only about 10,000 years old IS NOT a stupid thing to believe? Being that its not only wrong, but insanely inaccurate to the degree that a 3rd grade school child knows the truth about it. Go on. Say it. Say its not a stupid thing to believe.

Did I ever say I believed that?

Again, for your hatred and attacks to be justified in your mind, you must put words into my mouth.

You demonize religious believers so you can justify your blind attacks on them.


God made man, man made the many religions in the vain attempt to worship him but humans cannot do anything in a perfect way.

Yes there are mistakes but let me ask you a question, if I was writing a book about you and made a couple errors in that book, would my errors mean you never existed in the first place?

 

[Jhony5]

Yes there are mistakes but let me ask you a question, if I was writing a book about you and made a couple errors in that book, would my errors mean you never existed in the first place?

A couple of errors? Laugh?

I wouldn't base my beliefs upon a book thats has enormous errors starting on the first page. People do though. Turning a blind eye to whats wrong with it because they want to believe the parts that can't be proven either way.

I never said God doesn't exist. Its like you're either learning disabled or just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. God, in my purview, probably does exist in one way or another. Hence the "I'm not a ing atheist" part I've been screaming adamantly. Atheist DO NOT hold out potential for deities and demigods.

This lends no weight or reason for anyone to believe what fairy tales ancient man had to tell. Especially when they wrote these fallacies down, and now we can look upon them and laugh at the gross errors in their text.

You're right. Religion is man made. You, as if going to Wal-mart to purchase it, have bought an idea to explain the unexplainable. You purchased a tome that answers the unanswerable. Literally. I betcha got a real nice gold leaf leather bound personally emblazoned copy of the answers to the universe. How much did it cost?




DO NOT GO ON ABOUT ME CALLING YOU STUPID. DROP IT!

 

[wez]

The human mind is a funny thing. Maybe you're not stupid, TJ. Maybe you're just a crazy mutha a.

Stop calling me an atheist. Asshole.

There is a big difference between the two TJ.. and since atheists are the 21st century witches at present, may be why he's pissed, not that it's the truth. Agnostics say.. "I don't know".. and if they say, I know what you're saying about God is crap, doesn't mean they don't believe in "God".

After all, is'nt "God" the representation behind the creation of life and applies to every human ever to exist? So, to deny "God", is to deny ones own existence.. Good luck with that.. So, it's more about the fact that the true "God" applies to every individual and it's actually the crap people say they know to be true from the dawn of creation through eternity and what people do and say "God" commands them to do to other people that piss most agnostics off. Not to mention being labeled an atheist and getting mobbed by the brethren for public hanging...


God created mankind. Mankind can only impose "Gods" law upon themselves as individuals. The end.

 

[Jhony5]

After all, is'nt "God" the representation behind the creation of life and applies to every human ever to exist? So, to deny "God", is to deny ones own existence..

God is the supreme or ultimate reality. Whatever that is. So yes, to deny "god" is to turn your back on the magic that is life.

The logic of making an assumption either way is what bothers me. Many folks get into religion later in life, simply because everyone around them seems to believe it. "If everyone jumped off a bridge........."

I think people really just want to belong to a group. Religion gives you this.


Timesjoke said he doesn't believe what the bible tells him. He knows it was wrong about the age of the Earth. The shape of the Earth. The orbit of the Earth. The evolutionary process of the hominid.

If this tome, this guide, this book of supposed reverence is so blatantly wrong about the most basic of scientific principal, then how is it reasonable to assume that it is correct about the most complex and unanswerable questions that mere man can contrive?

Its right about God, Christ the son of God, but its wrong about the rotation of the Earth? Why? How?


How can this be?

 

[wez]

Its right about God, Christ the son of God, but its wrong about the rotation of the Earth? Why? How?


How can this be?

The followers of Jesus words of truth, love and forgivness saw fit to imprison Galileo for the crime of telling the truth that they claimed to know.. Hahahaha

Seems to me, most, certainly not all, modern "Christians" are the very same fabric of the hypocrites that saw Jesus to His death. The mob rules!! How ironic.. church oughtta do something about those defilers.

 

[ToriAllen]

Quote:

Timesjoke said he doesn't believe what the bible tells him. He knows it was wrong about the age of the Earth. The shape of the Earth. The orbit of the Earth. The evolutionary process of the hominid.

If this tome, this guide, this book of supposed reverence is so blatantly wrong about the most basic of scientific principal, then how is it reasonable to assume that it is correct about the most complex and unanswerable questions that mere man can contrive?

Its right about God, Christ the son of God, but its wrong about the rotation of the Earth? Why? How?


How can this be?

Come on now. How many libraries could be filled with science, history, philosophy... You can not possibly expect all of that information to be condensed into one book. The Bible is a figurative moral compass written on a very basic and generic level so as to include even the stupidest or youngest of individuals in understanding the principles contained inside. Quite a bit of the Bible was written either thousands of years after an event or thousands of years before an event, which means that the person writing had to interpret what they were told/envisioning/whatever according to their own understanding of how the world worked at the time.
Before you talk about the Bible being so wrong about creation from a scientific view, go back and look at the order in which things were created. Time is man mad, so it is impossible for the Bible to be wrong on the time frame, because God has no time frame that can be measured by man.

 

[Jhony5]

Those are excuses for errors of an omnipotent being. If so much of the bible is indeed man made, and this is reflected by the errors, then is it not logical to assume that the story of Jesus Christ, his death, his resurrection, Moses all of it, is also man made. Christianity is man made. The concepts that act as its compass are all man made. The whole thing is fabrication. So why can't we do away with this ancient tradition?

Why can't we stop defending the fabrications of ancient men?

because God has no time frame that can be measured by man.

Man has a time frame that can be measured by God. That is whats important here. Why was this not the case then? Man wasn't speaking to God, God was, supposedly, speaking to man. Than how is it he has no grasp of the calender. No awareness of human time keeping practices?

The Bible is a figurative moral compass written on a very basic and generic level so as to include even the stupidest or youngest of individuals in understanding the principles contained inside. Quite a bit of the Bible was written either thousands of years after an event or thousands of years before an event, which means that the person writing had to interpret what they were told/envisioning/whatever according to their own understanding of how the world worked at the time.

The whole point, Tori, is ...........God wasn't telling these men these things. Be honest. They made it up. Mere men created this God, this religion. They made it all up. Just like the books of the bible that were discarded and not included. Its all made up. The evidence is strong.

What is reportedly the word of an infallible being, is seen now as being in obvious error. Enter the excuses, the "reasons" why God was wrong. You can't polish a terd, you just get sh t everywhere.


God didn't tell these men these things. They made it all up.

God, this infallible being, surely would have included a little nugget. Something that man in the future could look at in the text of the bible, and have no choice but to say "How could ancient man have known this".

Instead, what we see is error after error. Nothing of any substance that stands as prophetic at the time, ringing true in the future. Nothing. In all the pages, not a peep of knowledge that would be unknowable to ancient man, but later proven as correct. All we see are warped and fouled science in the bible. Based on mans understanding of things back then. If this is the case, then is it not reasonable to think that the entire concept of the bible is man made.


What reason do you have to believe the bible? Before I die, I want someone to try and answer that, and actually make sense while doing so.

With all the reasons to doubt the bible, where is the reasoning to believe it?