Christianity. Blasphemy. Brainwashing.

[timesjoke]

So sheik, you believe that anyone raised in a religious family must believe everything their family believed?


You were raised an Athiest and that is why you believe what you do?

If I steal a cop uniform and put it on does that make me a cop in reality?


You my friend are playing stupid, you know damn well that Hitler was an Athiest, I even posted his own words saying religion needed to be removed and he believed in evolution but you run around with your hands over your ears so you don't have to acknoledge the truth.



Just because Hitler was raised under a certain belief structure, that does not mean he believed in what his family believed, If you are too stulid to undersatand that we each have our own beliefs reguardless of what our parents believe, I cannot help you but it does explain how you can be an Athiest.



Scream lies all you want, Hitler was Athiest in both belief and action. Athiest leaders like him have killed 100 million people, over ten times more than anyone else in the entire history of religious based violence. I have provided proof that he admits to being an Athiest, while all you can offer is his family believed in religion so he can never have his own beliefs, what a laugh you would desperately cling to that flimsy crap.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

So sheik, you believe that anyone raised in a religious family must believe everything their family believed?

No, I do not believe that at all.


You were raised an Athiest and that is why you believe what you do?

My past has no connection with my present belief

If I steal a cop uniform and put it on does that make me a cop in reality?

No, but if you join the police then you become a cop. You will stay a cop until you die, retire or leave the group, whichever comes soonest.

You my friend are playing stupid,

No. And feel free to tire of the s word some time soon.It's becoming tiresome

you know damn well that Hitler was an Athiest

Hitler was no Atheist, he was a Christian.

I even posted his own words saying religion needed to be removed and he believed in evolution but you run around with your hands over your ears so you don't have to acknoledge the truth.

I does not matter what he said. What matters is that he was a member of the Christian church and chose never to leave.



Just because Hitler was raised under a certain belief structure, that does not mean he believed in what his family believed, If you are too stulid to undersatand that we each have our own beliefs reguardless of what our parents believe, I cannot help you but it does explain how you can be an Athiest.

See above. According to your viewpoint, should the President no longer believe in what his father believed, then he would cease to be the President ! Nonsense, the President would remain the President until he died, or his term expired, or he officially and publicly left his position as President. So too with Adolf.

Scream lies all you want, Hitler was Athiest in both belief and action.


see above

Athiest leaders like him have killed 100 million people,

So you keep saying, once again you are being untruthful. You know you are. Who were these Atheist groups ?

over ten times more than anyone else in the entire history of religious based violence. I have provided proof that he admits to being an Athiest,

see above

while all you can offer is his family believed in religion so he can never have his own beliefs, what a laugh you would desperately cling to that flimsy crap.

Of course he had his own ideas and beliefs, but he was still a Christian- see above. Its you that is clinging to crap. You need de-theistication, just as the nazi's needed de- nazification. You are as brainwashed and deluded as they were/are.

 

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Sheik... You are wrong. He was not a Christian. He may have started as a Christian, but he changed that.

Think of it like this. You have a job, you walk out of said job without telling anyone. After a week of not going back, you pretty much know, you don't have a job there anymore, you're not employed there anylonger. You are not a part of that organization. Hitler as a Christian did basically the same thing. He walked out and left the religion. He was no longer a part of it. Even though he never "Formally renounced" his membership.

 

[snafu]

Come on off course Hitler was an atheist. What other group of people would want to wipe out all the Jews? Oh yeah Muslims. Never mind.

 

[timesjoke]

My past has no connection with my present belief

But you are claiming that Hitler was a Christian based only on his past.

Either the past is relivant or it is not relivant.


That is why I discussed how you were raised. If you were raised something other than an Athiest but became an Athiest later, why can't you accept the truth that Hitler did the exact same thing?

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it is a duck, even if there is an idiot swearing up and down it is a turtle.

Hitler was an Athiest in Deed and beliefs, that is reality. Athiest leaders have killed over 100 million people, facts are facts, even if they cause you discomfort.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

But you are claiming that Hitler was a Christian based only on his past.

I am claiming that Hitler was a Christian, because he was baptised - an initiation rite. This is how we join groups such as this. The rite is inherently meaningful. As such it must be renounced for his apostasy to be accepted by all.

At his baptism, I do not consider he had much choice in the matter. He was at the time a babe in arms. However, join he did. As far as I am aware he never left the church, and so, remained a Christian until the day he died.
Either the past is relivant or it is not relivant.

Not sure where you are going with this, but yes I suppose so. Our past as well as our present and future are relevant to us.


That is why I discussed how you were raised. If you were raised something other than an Athiest but became an Athiest later, why can't you accept the truth that Hitler did the exact same thing?

I understand what you are saying. However, though I call myself an Atheist, I am actually a theist. This is so, as, like Hitler, I have never renounced this tosh that was forced upon me as an infant.

I am uncertain how to do it. I think I should perhaps do as the folks at Heartland are doing- a video of myself denying all the sky-faeries. That would be public and a true expression of my beliefs. I will do it soon. I think that would be best. I no longer wish to be associated by implication/association with theists after all the evil they have done in the world.

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it is a duck, even if there is an idiot swearing up and down it is a turtle.

Hitler was an Athiest in Deed and beliefs, that is reality. Athiest leaders have killed over 100 million people, facts are facts, even if they cause you discomfort.

With hindsight I agree that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, but not that he was one by deed. You seek here to remove this despicable criminal from your Christian ranks. And deposit him in ours. This is something that can never be. In actual fact, he was a Christian, for the reasons I have given several times already.

I am still waiting for you to expand on your claim that Atheists killed 100 million people. This is more theist nonsense.An attempt to draw attention away from your own dreadful history, and blame others with it. Despicable.

 

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Shiek... you ignored my post...

 

[snafu]

With hindsight I agree that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, but not that he was one by deed. You seek here to remove this despicable criminal from your Christian ranks. And deposit him in ours. This is something that can never be. In actual fact, he was a Christian, for the reasons I have given several times already.....

What in the hell are you talking about? If you believe he was an atheist why wasn't he one by deed? That makes no sense at all. There is no actual fact that he was either or. But he wasn't acting apon a religion when he was comminting genocide. He's the closet thing to the anti-christ there ever was.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

Sheik... You are wrong. He was not a Christian. He may have started as a Christian, but he changed that.

Think of it like this. You have a job, you walk out of said job without telling anyone. After a week of not going back, you pretty much know, you don't have a job there anymore, you're not employed there anylonger. You are not a part of that organization. Hitler as a Christian did basically the same thing. He walked out and left the religion. He was no longer a part of it. Even though he never "Formally renounced" his membership.

I would have said that leaving your job was not comparable to leaving your religion.

One is simply a means to earn enough to get by. But religion is something people make oaths and vows about. Some die in defence of it, others, rather than denounce or leave it.

Must dash. I'm off to damn my imaginary soul to eternal suffering in imaginary hell.

 

[timesjoke]

With hindsight I agree that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, but not that he was one by deed.

Our actions are our deeds, other wise known as actions speak louder than words.

Hitler desired the complete removal of all religion and believed in evolution, that is Athiest in actions and deeds.

So, his murder of millions of people were the actions of an Athiest because he was an Athiest at the time he did them, as you have already admitted.

You seek here to remove this despicable criminal from your Christian ranks. And deposit him in ours. This is something that can never be. In actual fact, he was a Christian, for the reasons I have given several times already.

No, it is you who want to hide fromt he truth, not me. You just admited he was an Athiest, that means all his deeds were as an Athiest, you can't worm your way out of this one.


Hitler stepped away from his religious family and never was involved with the church as an adult, he was never a Christian in any way.

Being a Christian is more then being baptised or even standing in a church, it is a belief structure, it is morals and good deeds, Hitler never shared in a Christian belief structure or any other Christian action, he was never a Christian.

That is why I have attempted to give you examples of a false face, to tell you just because someone is wearing a certain disguise, that does not mean he is what he pretends to be. But obviously, that concept is beyond your understanding.

I am still waiting for you to expand on your claim that Atheists killed 100 million people. This is more theist nonsense.An attempt to draw attention away from your own dreadful history, and blame others with it. Despicable.

I have laready posted it, please try reading the entire thread, it helps.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

What in the hell are you talking about? If you believe he was an atheist why wasn't he one by deed? That makes no sense at all. There is no actual fact that he was either or. But he wasn't acting apon a religion when he was comminting genocide. He's the closet thing to the anti-christ there ever was.

It makes sense to me.

He was an Atheist by belief, because he came to believe that there was no god.

But I do not believe he was an Atheist by deed. Were I to agree with this then TJ would say that Hitlers deeds then, must have been the deeds of an Atheist.

I disagree. Hitler was actually a Roman Catholic. His deeds then, were the deeds of a Christian, much like Martin Luther, Pinochet, Vlad the Impaler, Richard the Lionheart,Charlemaine, all British Monarchs for centuries, and all the other murderous Christians that have ever been, the list of which would be too long to compile here.

 

[snafu]

Am I the only one that has Google?
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=501208



http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

I think it was propaganda that he proclaimed his religious beliefs. He’s trying to stir the German people to follow him.

Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity.
-Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 28 July 1922

He's trying to insight hate.

 

[timesjoke]

It makes sense to me.

He was an Atheist by belief, because he came to believe that there was no god.

So he was an Athiest, and that means everything he did was as an Athiest, including the deaths of millions of people.

Case closed.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

So he was an Athiest, and that means everything he did was as an Athiest, including the deaths of millions of people.

Case closed.

No. the case is not closed. Who do you think you are? Judge and jury.

Hitler was a Christian. I have explained elsewhere why this must be so. The deaths you mention though are certainly attributable to Hitler - a lifelong Christian.

 

[timesjoke]

No. the case is not closed. Who do you think you are? Judge and jury.

Hitler was a Christian. I have explained elsewhere why this must be so. The deaths you mention though are certainly attributable to Hitler - a lifelong Christian.

You have proven nothing.

I have proved he admitted to hating all religion, he believed in evolution, and you even admitted he was an Athiest, that means everything he did was done as an Athiest.


Hitler was never a Christian, his family was, be he was not.

You already admitted he was an Athiest, so you now trying to say he was a Christian is simply stupidity in action, you can't have it both ways.

 

[eddo]

Shiek, you are confusing me. First you say Hitler was a Christian, then you say he was an atheist, now you are back to saying he was a Christian...


One does not have to vocalize the exact phrase: "I renounce God" to leave the Church or turn his back on God. The quotes that Timesjoke and Snafu have shared clearly show that Hitler turned his back on all religion, much less Christianity.

Christians have done some mighty stupid things over the eons in the name of God as well, but Hitler actions show that he was clearly not acting in a Godly way.

 

[ToriAllen]

I'm not sure what the point of this conversation is. What does it matter if one psycho was or was not a Christian. I'm sure there are many examples of atheist psychos and many examples of psychos claiming to be Christian. Yes, the difference in wording is on purpose and makes perfect sense if you stop to think. It is not possible to think you don't believe in anything or follow any faith when you actually do, but it is possible to claim Christianity while falling terribly short of following the principles of the faith. You all seem to be ignoring the 99 percent of the Christian and atheist population that is not psych. Honestly, mental instability doesn't have a place in a discussion about the validity of religion.

If you would like to talk about the link between mental illness and 'talking to God' or 'religious purposes', I think that could be an interesting conversation far removed from the current context of the thread. A great example is Schizophrenia. Most everyone has heard of God at some point in their lives and whether you actually believe in God growing up, when you start hearing a voice that isn't coming from you or anyone around you, you will try to attribute the voice to the only logical person you can think of, no matter how illogical it seems. Not that schizophrenics are really thinking straight anyway. Of course not all Schizophrenics think they are talking to God. Some think they are talking to Batman or Santa Clause. It is a fascinating study.

That brings up another point. How many of you are willing to blame a movie for some crazy person going on a killing spree in the name of that movie. Does that make the movie bad or evil? What about some crazy trying to emulate a video game? Is it the fault of the game or the person? Do you think that these people are just inherently crazy to begin with? If so, then why would it be so difficult to accept the fact that some crazies distort religion to fit into their own twisted purposes? To believe that religion is not naturally bad and that the majority of people who believe in religion are not evil people?

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

.

You have proven nothing.

TJ, I never claimed to have proven anything

I have proved he admitted to hating all religion,

You also have not proved anything. You have simply told us of your beliefs

he believed in evolution,

So what ? Many christian scientists do

and you even admitted he was an Athiest,

You really should chose your words more carefully. I admitted nothing of the sort. I said that I agreed he was an Atheist in belief. By this I mean that some of his thoughts were Atheist. But in actual fact Hitler was a Christian for the reasons I have given elsewhere several times


that means everything he did was done as an Athiest.

No, he was a lifelong Christian


Hitler was never a Christian, his family was, be he was not.

Nonsense

You already admitted he was an Athiest,

See above

so you now trying to say he was a Christian is simply stupidity in action, you can't have it both ways.

I am not trying to have anything two ways. I would make my position clear once more but have done so several times already. Go back and read my posts again if you are still unsure of what I have said

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

Shiek, you are confusing me. First you say Hitler was a Christian, then you say he was an atheist, now you are back to saying he was a Christian...

You are deliberately trying to cause confusion. Let me do this one more time . Hitler was a christian, I have explained why elsewhere. But yes, some of his beliefs were Atheist. Much like someone being a profesional musician by trade, but also studying poetry at night school. He still remains a musician.

Christians readily have a public rite so that everyone understands their new position. ie baptism, confirmation, marriage etc. Clearly you should also publicly announce your cessation in belief, if you cease to believe. This is how you publicise and formally announce, and enter apostasy. It really isn't good enough to claim Hitler was not a Christian when clearly he was.


One does not have to vocalize the exact phrase: "I renounce God" to leave the Church or turn his back on God.

I dont think an exact phrase is necessary. But a public
statement of belief is, so that we all understand his position. This is important from one who has officially joined a theist sect. Otherwise, how are we to know where he stood ? I must conclude in the absence of same, that he chose remain a christian.

The quotes that Timesjoke and Snafu have shared clearly show that Hitler turned his back on all religion,

I cannot agree, he said some unpleasant things presumably, much like Judas, and others, but they too died Christians. They too joined and never left their religion. What other conclusion can be made ? They should have renounced their positions were they unhappy for things to turn out as they have done.

Christians have done some mighty stupid things over the eons in the name of God as well, but Hitler actions show that he was clearly not acting in a Godly way.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

I'm not sure what the point of this conversation is. What does it matter if one psycho was or was not a Christian.

This is about TJ's assertion that Atheists have killed 100 million people. This is absolute bull.

In fact, the majority of people who ever lived were theists. Before man like gods, there were Lakes mountains animals planets etc. All have been worshipped as gods. So then, if most people who have ever lived have been theists, then most tribes, groups, murderous regimes have been fronted by theists. Therefore the exact opposite is true. The god-botherers are responsible for most murders- the exact opposite of what TJ says.

He has been challenged several times to attempt to substantiate his claim, but ignores all requests to do so.


I'm sure there are many examples of atheist psychos and many examples of psychos claiming to be Christian. Yes, the difference in wording is on purpose and makes perfect sense if you stop to think. It is not possible to think you don't believe in anything or follow any faith when you actually do, but it is possible to claim Christianity while falling terribly short of following the principles of the faith. You all seem to be ignoring the 99 percent of the Christian and atheist population that is not psych. Honestly, mental instability doesn't have a place in a discussion about the validity of religion.

If you would like to talk about the link between mental illness and 'talking to God' or 'religious purposes', I think that could be an interesting conversation far removed from the current context of the thread. A great example is Schizophrenia. Most everyone has heard of God at some point in their lives and whether you actually believe in God growing up, when you start hearing a voice that isn't coming from you or anyone around you, you will try to attribute the voice to the only logical person you can think of, no matter how illogical it seems. Not that schizophrenics are really thinking straight anyway. Of course not all Schizophrenics think they are talking to God. Some think they are talking to Batman or Santa Clause. It is a fascinating study.

That brings up another point. How many of you are willing to blame a movie for some crazy person going on a killing spree in the name of that movie. Does that make the movie bad or evil? What about some crazy trying to emulate a video game? Is it the fault of the game or the person? Do you think that these people are just inherently crazy to begin with? If so, then why would it be so difficult to accept the fact that some crazies distort religion to fit into their own twisted purposes? To believe that religion is not naturally bad and that the majority of people who believe in religion are not evil people?

Good discussion material here.