GI Guilty in Iraqi's Suffocation - Read the link and then vote...

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

**** fools always get so close to the trees they cannot see the forest.

I am not trying to say the BUSH per se, is like Hitler.

What I am saying is that when one is willing to circumvent the laws, break the laws, murder, spy, torture, imprison without trial and basically become less than human so as to provide oneself a "defense" or "information" or "intelligence", you have started down the path of Fascism or Nazism.

This is the comparison and contrast.

Do I really think Bush wants to be Der Fuhrer? No. Do I think that his actions are highly similar to those of Adolf Hitler? Absolutely yes.

Whenever a leader feels that by virtue of their political office, they are somehow entitled to be above the law and allowed to decide what is and is not legal for themselves instead of the courts deciding, then this is the beginnings of a dictatorship. It's that simple.

What started this is all of the idiots here cheering that a US soldier MURDERED and Iraqi General Prisioner of War; Nevermind that we have murdered civilians (which we call insurgents) as well. ****!!!

What The ****!!!

Then, some of you defend it with a whole host of BULLSHIT reasons and JUSTIFICATIONS that support COLD BLOODED TORTURE AND MURDER!

I thought we were the GOOD GUYS, but it seems we have taken our new rules from the **** playbook.

I don't ever want to hear one of you mother ******* ever complaining when a US soldier or civilian gets beheaded, or blown up. They (the insurgents) are just doing what they feel they need to in order to win!

WHAT A ******* ****** UP PHILOSOPHY YOU ASSWIPES HAVE!

**** ALL OF YOU!

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Don't get self righteous on me you pompous *****. I'm married to a medically retired Army Veteran. My Grandfather is retired Air Force, and my father did his time in the Navy. I am quite aware of the military and political working of the government. The only difference is, my views aren't jaded by my own guilt and self loathing like yours are. You learn to deal with your own experiences and quit projecting them onto every other person in the military.

I'm not self righteous but you sure are a dumb **** vicious *****. I don't give a **** if you are married to *** himself. You're misguided here.

There is no justification you can concoct to validate the torture and murder of another human being. None.

Self righeteous indignation is your speciality here but then you absolutely need it in full measure to justify TORTURING and MURDERING a prisioner of war.

At to my "guilt and self loathing" that's the bigest pile of **** you've tried to yet pass off. What a ****!

Lastly, I noticed that you don't have the ******* ***** to answer the question I asked you..

How ******* many does it take Tori? How many?

 

[ToriAllen]

I'm not self righteous but you sure are a dumb **** vicious *****. I don't give a **** if you are married to *** himself. You're misguided here.
There is no justification you can concoct to validate the torture and murder of another human being. None.

Self righeteous indignation is your speciality here but then you absolutely need it in full measure to justify TORTURING and MURDERING a prisioner of war.

At to my "guilt and self loathing" that's the bigest pile of **** you've tried to yet pass off. What a ****!

Lastly, I noticed that you don't have the ******* ***** to answer the question I asked you..

How ******* many does it take Tori? How many?

Uh oh. Did I hit a nerve? I am a *****. It’s about time you figured that one out.

How many what? Enemy soldiers with information that could save lives. There is no set number on that.

It is quite different to torture innocent individuals than the men who conspire against our men. You are the one who is misguided here, not me. You are drawing comparisons that do not exist.

I can think of many instances in which torture and murder are most certainly justified. I would have no qualms about torture and murder of a child abuser or molester who ended up killing the child he/she harmed. I would gladly see to it myself. You can think what you will about me, but sometimes torture is justified. If we can save lives by torturing those who want to take those lives, than so be it.

 

[fullauto]

Thank *** you people have finally started saying something... I was beginning to feel like the only person who didn't get the opinion issued to them in the morning news! Nice not to take **** alone!

now to the point...

Yes, it is feasibly possible for this country to 'deteriorate' (used for continuity and not dogma) into a fascist state. But, if it does make this journey, it would do so out of panic mode, and would be fascist in it's pure form (provided their was no communist interference) meaning that WE would Elect/Appoint a STRONG LEADER to make lightning quick decisions quickly for us without being strangled by red tape, and TRULY the best interest of OUR PEOPLE... And for all intensive purposes, would only last as long as did the perceived threat...

This differs from what Hitler had accomplished at the end of 1933 by means that he gained control of the position of Dass Fuhrer (The Leader) by first appealing to a 1/3 minority, and then by turning the Reichstag into his own personal 'rubber-stamp' to vote him emergency powers WITHOUT A TERM... All the while, keeping WHITE/ARYAN interests at the core of his work and not that of the German people as a whole...

This would never be tolerated by this country... First off, the minority vote would NEVER get you elected into an office which in itself is 1/3 (Executive) of the government, meaning that at least 1/2 of the country would have to be for your policies for you to get such a position, which basically says you would be working on behalf of the people's concerns as a whole, and not just white racialists...

Secondly, Even after being slapped in the face by Islamic Jihad, and getting 'cooperation' from the other branches, Bush's emergency powers are constantly put on the judicial butcher-block and scrutinized from top to bottom as to whether these policies are absolutely needed... And when they are not, They ARE SUSPENDED by one or more checks and balances!

Thirdly, Presidential terms are limited to 2, and if you don't like him after 1, we can vote him out... WE DIDN'T!

Just because you were on the losing side of that election doesn't mean that he's a ******* dictator... I didn't vote for him either, BUT HE'S STILL MY ******* PRESIDENT! and as long as 50% or more of the nation agrees to keep him in power, he will be our president!

I don't like being in the minority vote anymore than you do, but the fundamental difference is that once the vote is cast, I fall in line with my countrymen, and not do everything to sabotage our leaders...

If this same situation had cropped up in 1935, this country would vote their leader, and then adopt and accept them as their own, regardless of what party he was from... Our military would not be a 'thin green line' because back then, if your country needs you, you go... Get it... a solid front for the enemy to look at as they charged our lines...

But this separatist BS over the past 50 years has left OUR OWN PEOPLE with a US vs THEM mentality, and has put a stigma on joining the military in service of your countrymen regardless of your political views...

in WWI, the world quaked when we announced our arrival on the allies side! and again in WWII... THE WHOLE WORLD trembled at our resolve and dedication... Now, third rate Islamic dictators find it amusing when we declare war on them because they know our people will never stand together and fight, and as a result will be half cocked fighting, and be forced to pull out prematurely to satisfy our disenting half...

THE WORLD IS LAUGHING AT US! And it's liberal **** like this that cause it...

 

[ToriAllen]

Webster

 

[Jhony5]

So that I'm not misunderstood, I am no supporter of Bush or this war. I feel embarrassed as an American to be involved in this misguided bullshit of an excuse to go to war. How can I say such a thing? Because honestly, in 10-20 years do any of you actually think that Iraq will be a stable and sovereign democratic nation? **** no it won't. Bush knows this as well as any idiot whom might bother to care to pay attention.

There is no justification you can concoct to validate the torture and murder of another human being. None.

There sure isn't. And from a microcosmic viewpoint, it is equatable to any instance of human rights violations. Due to the actions of the Bush administration he is deserving of the raw comparisons to history's monsters.

Whenever a leader feels that by virtue of their political office, they are somehow entitled to be above the law and allowed to decide what is and is not legal for themselves instead of the courts deciding, then this is the beginnings of a dictatorship. It's that simple.

I understand fully what your saying here. However, how many of histories ACTUAL dictators were binded to a limit of (2) consecutive terms of no more then 4 years? As much power as some wish to claim that Bush, personally, has achieved. He will have no power in two years. ZERO. Not a threat.

 

[fullauto]

What laws did bush break? besides the awfully grey area about 'what is torture?', which we will never come to a concensus on, what laws did he break/circumvent?

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What laws did bush break? besides the awfully grey area about 'what is torture?', which we will never come to a concensus on, what laws did he break/circumvent?

Simply because the Framers of the US Constitution did not envision a person who would be classified as a "foreign combatent" or "insurgent" (afterall, the Founding Fathers were all insurgents), does not give President Bush the right to have his henchmen secretly kidnapp people, fly them to other countries for interrogation (torture), and also keep other people in jails both foreign and domestic, indefinitely, without notifying anyone of their whereabouts or allowing them access to lawyers and courts.

This is a crime. Maybe not specifically spelled out in the criminal code, but it is an affront to the spirit of humanity and the very essence of what is is to be AMERICAN.

I was a professional soldier, regardless of what the Queen ***** may try to imply. I have served my nation for over 20 years, and fought in 3 continents for the USA. I have never pulled the trigger on somebody who I didn't feel was trying to do the same to me first and I have killed more people than you would want to know. Enough said.

But by ******* ***, I never tortured anyone! I never suffocated somebody, put a sleepingbag over their head and sat on their chest until they died. I never contributed to the secret imprisionment of people and the secret transport of them to foreign prisons for interrogation (******* torture).

Why don't you go to Washington D.C. and go to the office of John McCain and ask him how he feels about torture.

After 5 1/2 years of it from the Vietnamese, I think he's a ******* EXPERT on it!

Guess what, he's against it! What a ******* surprise!

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So that I'm not misunderstood, I am no supporter of Bush or this war. I feel embarrassed as an American to be involved in this misguided bullshit of an excuse to go to war. How can I say such a thing? Because honestly, in 10-20 years do any of you actually think that Iraq will be a stable and sovereign democratic nation? **** no it won't. Bush knows this as well as any idiot whom might bother to care to pay attention.


There sure isn't. And from a microcosmic viewpoint, it is equatable to any instance of human rights violations. Due to the actions of the Bush administration he is deserving of the raw comparisons to history's monsters.

I understand fully what your saying here. However, how many of histories ACTUAL dictators were binded to a limit of (2) consecutive terms of no more then 4 years? As much power as some wish to claim that Bush, personally, has achieved. He will have no power in two years. ZERO. Not a threat.

Once again, too close to the trees to see the forest...

Bush is not the issue. I don't give a flying **** about Bush. Really. Quote me on this. On the man himself, I don't give a flying ****.

What I care about are the actions of the office of the President of the United States.

Remember that phrase? The Republicans were SCREAMING it while Clinton was getting his big ******* **** sucked in the Oval Office. What was his crime? Getting his **** sucked in the White House by a secretary? Please.

When one President takes unethical and possibly illegal actions while in his term(s), he sets precedence for the next, and the next; each who will take a little more and a little more, until without warning, somebody decides to take it all.

Every nation that has ever fallen under a dictatorial rule, never once ever thought it was a possibility until it was too late.

Where are our ethics anymore? What makes us Americans different than the rest of the world?

 

[Jhony5]

Once again, too close to the trees to see the forest...
Bush is not the issue. I don't give a flying **** about Bush. Really. Quote me on this. On the man himself, I don't give a flying ****.

Others have been drawing parallels between Bush and Hitler. I really didn't intend to say that you had done this.

What I care about are the actions of the office of the President of the United States.

This is what bothers me about the whole "Bush is a ****" bullshit. To say so, one is saying that America is partial to Nazism, as we voted him into a second term. I am offended by this personally. I couldn't agree with you more on the above quote. Bush will be gone in two years and it is our responsibility as Americans to not vote republican, as this is the only way to ensure that what was started by Bush, ends with his term.

Where are our ethics anymore? What makes us Americans different than the rest of the world?

Great question. Here is your answer.

Every nation that has ever fallen under a dictatorial rule, never once ever thought it was a possibility until it was too late.

Because of our strict two party system, a dictatorship is not possible. Never ever will it happen. Not even a chance. Am I being naive? I think not. You seem well versed in American politics, CES. So I think you know it is not possible for one man to assume total power over us all. Can the "office of the president of the United States" do this. No. To many checks and balances. To much bureaucracy.

Our ethics, however, are being assaulted by the office of the President. To have American soldiers killing unarmed captives and being allowed to walk, is disgraceful. You made mention of the Guantanamo bay incident involving the humiliation of prisoners. Which I thought was a great ******* point. A harsher punishment for some dumb-*** nudie pictures then for a clear cut case of murder. You made a key observation that surprisingly I had not heard mentioned before. The "fall guy" comment was so obvious, its genius. Dog collars, leashes??? They must have stopped at the local Iraqi pet supply store for that, huh? WTF gives with that? This patriotic bullshit attitude of "Hey, they don't follow the rules, why should we" is horrible. Thats not patriotism, its siding with enemy tactics. Any of you that think the American soldier that did this was under duress and snapped from all the stress of war, leading to an accidental death, are fools. He enjoyed it very much, you bet your sweet *** he did.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Jhony Jhony Jhony....what am I going to do with you?

You've been getting wiser by the ******* post! I'm Loving It!

I don't think a dictatorship is in the immediate future of the USA. Not likely. However, US government corruption is so commonplace nowadays, right up to the office of President, that I see little if any difference in our form of government and that of say 1980's USSR, or Eastern European countries where everybody and everything is corrupt to the core. (Like Kosovo...I was there.)

You are **** right. That ************ got a raging hard-on when he suffocated that Irawi General. He ******* loved it. Sick.

I think it is the fate of all civilizations. Given enough time, mankind rises from the dust, walks erect, learns lauguage, art, science, civility, and then, after awhile, abandones all of those things to act like an animal once again. Destiny.

I am old and wise enough to realize that I am not going to change the world. I will pass into the annuals of oblivion very soon, and this is okay. What I take with me when I leave this life, is the knowledge that I tried to help my fellow man, and that I did not intentionally inflict torture and pain on another human being. It doesn't make me better, or worse, just content with myself.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...You made a key observation that surprisingly I had not heard mentioned before. The "fall guy" comment was so obvious, its genius. Dog collars, leashes??? They must have stopped at the local Iraqi pet supply store for that, huh? WTF gives with that? ...

Funny thing was, it was the very first thing I noticed in the pictures. Sesame Street trained me well... Singing - "One of these things is not like the other things, one of these things just doesn't belong..."

The following is a MILD example. Very Mild.

This man is rightfully afraid of the US at Abu Graib prison. What threat is a naked man to 3 guards and 2 attack dogs? None. Why is he naked?

.

Moments later, same guy.

.

The great United States, land of the free, home of Liberty and Democracy, sicks attack dogs on a naked prisoner or war.

**** like this makes me ashamed of my government.

 

[Lethalfind]

I'm not saying this is morally or legally right.

but you ask how many??

I personally won't feel safe as long as one Muslim walks the earth...

Not even one.

I will never willingly do business with a Muslim, I will never associate with a Muslim, completely and totally based on their association with a cult/religion that seems to prompt this kind of reaction to my culture.

If that makes me a **** then so be it but I don't remember any mention of how the Jews did any wholesale killing or flying planes into buildings of innocent people just prior to Hitler trying to exterminate them all. Please do point out that reference for me so I can enlighten myself.

 

[Lethalfind]

Not too cross threads or anything but I bet the Feds are gonna love reading these posts.

 

[fullauto]

Are you trying to stir **** up again or do you actually believe the dribble that is coming out of your brain into the computer? Bush like Hitler? This war is like WWII? Our troops are Nazis?Hitler was trying to annihilate an entire race of human beings. Not control or manipulate; annihilate. Hitler was trying to conquer Europe, and would not have stopped there. Bush, with congress' approval, has sent troops to invade one country. Hitler

 

[phreakwars]

Roll around in **** you Insurgent ******* !!!

We are AMERICA and we are here to liberate those who were tortured and oppressed by ******** like you.

We are the land of the mother ******* free you insurgent detainee suspect *******..

We are NOTHING like ****'s !!!

We do not torture prisoners, we treat them with dignity and respect.

Now stand up and spread your arms..

.

Now smile real ******* pretty so I can snap a quick photo and try to sneak it out in a letter or something so the world can get a laugh at you..

My American friends will LOVE it !!!

Who ordered such treatment ??

Well, uh... my superior of course..

But then I guess torture is justified isn't it ??

I wonder if the British ever did things like that to us AMERICAN INSURGENTS when we declared ourselves free and fought for OUR own cause.

I'm not defending insurgents, but, I think I can see some of the anger.

.

.

 

[Jhony5]

Not too cross threads or anything but I bet the Feds are gonna love reading these posts.

I'm sure they give a **** about what us idiots think.

This man is rightfully afraid of the US at Abu Graib prison. What threat is a naked man to 3 guards and 2 attack dogs? None. Why is he naked?

Oh c'mon CES, that guy is ready to pounce. Just look at the way he has his ***** tucked between his legs. An obvious sign that hes about to detonate a bomb cleverly concealed in his ******.

Seriously though, I've never seen those pictures before. Where did you acquire them? And what was the explanation for there actions?

Posted by: Lethalfind

I will never willingly do business with a Muslim, I will never associate with a Muslim, completely and totally based on their association with a cult/religion that seems to prompt this kind of reaction to my culture.

Understandable, given the fact that they (Muslims) hate you, by decree of their religion.

I personally won't feel safe as long as one Muslim walks the earth...Not even one.

******* drama queen. Believe it or not, many Muslims do not wish to harm anyone. The trick is sorting them out. Unfortunately its not as simple as good Muslims on the right, bad Muslims on the left. They're all mixed together and hiding behind each other. So lets kill them all and strip them of their human rights? **** I'm confused. Americans are Nazis, Muslims are evil cultist. Who's the good guys?

 

[Lethalfind]

I'm sure they give a **** about what us idiots think.


Oh c'mon CES, that guy is ready to pounce. Just look at the way he has his ***** tucked between his legs. An obvious sign that hes about to detonate a bomb cleverly concealed in his ******.

Seriously though, I've never seen those pictures before. Where did you acquire them? And what was the explanation for there actions?

Posted by: Lethalfind

Understandable, given the fact that they (Muslims) hate you, by decree of their religion.

******* drama queen. Believe it or not, many Muslims do not wish to harm anyone. The trick is sorting them out. Unfortunately its not as simple as good Muslims on the right, bad Muslims on the left. They're all mixed together and hiding behind each other. So lets kill them all and strip them of their human rights? **** I'm confused. Americans are Nazis, Muslims are evil cultist. Who's the good guys?

LOL, your calling me a drama queen for expressing what Americans everywhere are saying, including some retired military I'm friendly with...

I say this of all Muslims for the same reason you mentioned, you can't tell them apart, they don't have terrorist stamped on their forehead. Some of the men that were said to be responsible for 9-11 lived in neighborhoods here in Florida. I have heard interviews with their neighbors, no one had a clue and they all seemed like nice guys. Again, this is why I say what I do. I didn't say we should kill them all however. Its pretty clear thats not posible or even right. Even I believe that not all Muslims are terrorists. Can you honestly say since 9-11 that when you see a Muslim that you don't wonder?

 

[Jhony5]

Can you honestly say since 9-11 that when you see a Muslim that you don't wonder?

No more then I wonder when I see a guy that looks like Timothy McVeigh.

your calling me a drama queen for expressing what Americans everywhere are saying, including some retired military I'm friendly with...

Thats because you watch too much TV. And who the cares about "some military guy" you're friends with? I sure don't. I'm friends with a guy that thinks your a nutt gobbler, does that make it true?

I don't trust Muslims, or Mexicans, or blacks, or Puerto Ricans, or Chinese, or white guys, or Indians (both eastern and American), I don't trust you or your mom or your *** dam dog either.

 

[snafu]

**** you throw some graphics up to intimidate somebody? Shock treatment?

To show everybody how bad we are?

Thanks to us **** like this isn't happening anymore! The following are "Mild" "Very Mild" (in Islamic societies that is!)

.

.

Who ordered this treatment? Hmmm....

Apples and oranges don't ya think?

For every one you post of our so called atrocities, I can post one allot worse!!

Com on show me some atrocities!

I'm a **** for wanting my freedom! For feeling safe. For protection for my kids?

I believe we went through this once before and I was right then also.

The end dose justify the means!

To bad he suffocated. **** happens!