GI Guilty in Iraqi's Suffocation - Read the link and then vote...
- Thread starter Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell
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fullauto
New member
That was posted to show people here that there is MUCH about history that you will never know about unless you talk to EVERYONE... Not just the side you were fighting for...I went back and re-read your posts. Protocols of the Elders of Zion
The protocols of the learned elders of Zion is (reportedly) minutes from a meeting that discussed how the same People who collapsed Czarist Russia and fed them into Communism, planned to do the same to every country on earth, starting in western countries where 'freedom' would allow them to rot it from the inside out rather than actually attacking it head on...
Of course I must interject that while Academia, The media, and all liberal organizations say it's made up (possible)... If you read it, and consider that it was written EARLY in the 20th century (regardless of who wrote it), everything in there has either happend, and/or is happening... And the very people that this document point the finger at are the ones in charge of the institutions that denounce its validity or stiffle its free reading... aka, no freedom of press!
I don't know who wrote it, but whoever wrote it was either involved with it if it's true, or a **** cousin to Nostre Domous... Either way, the point is that the west unfairly demonizes Germany for what it did in those days, and never considers what EXACTLY the situation was or what the FACT KNOW TO THEM were back then... We judge them through OUR eyes after the fact!
POINT: I can guarentee that nobody here has anywhere near enough information to pass any judgment on Germany for thier actions because you constantly use **** as a metaphor for absolute evil! Which tells me You don't know what absolute evil is, or when the worste one yet cropped up, and you are simply parroting **** you learned in Academia/Media/Liberal garbage posts!
Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
Nope, just the freakish stupid ones. That's all.
Stop. Your mixing stuff that has nothing to do with each other.
1. The cutting of hands and feet and beheading is a fundamental LEGAL punishment under Sharia law in several Islamic countries including Saudi Arabia. It has nothing to do with Iraqi insurgents.
2. Radical Lunatic Insurgents, like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is responsible for the deplorable beheadings, are for the most part, not even Iraqi. al-Zarqawi is Jordanian.
3. There is no such thing as extreme "interrogation" as you write. There is interrogation (asking of questions looking for information) and there is torture (the deliberate, systematic, or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons in an attempt to force another person to yield information or to make a confession or for any other reason). You're right, "There is a stark difference" between interrogation and torture.
4. Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush was a military officer, not a terrorist. Do you know how he was caught? Mowhoush, a Major General in the Republican Guard, was captured in a raid in the city of Qaim. He was arrested without incident. He was never treated as a prisioner of war and certainly not as a military commander.
How was he treated?
According to the Washington Post.
"...Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush was being stubborn with his American captors, and a series of intense beatings and creative interrogation tactics were not enough to break his will. On the morning of Nov. 26, 2003, a U.S. Army interrogator and a military guard grabbed a green sleeping bag, stuffed Mowhoush inside, wrapped him in an electrical cord, laid him on the floor and began to go to work. Again.
It was inside the sleeping bag that the 56-year-old detainee took his last breath through broken ribs, lying on the floor beneath a U.S. soldier in Interrogation Room 6 in the western Iraqi desert. Two days before, a secret CIA-sponsored group of Iraqi paramilitaries, working with Army interrogators, had beaten Mowhoush nearly senseless, using fists, a club and a rubber hose, according to classified documents...
Although Mowhoush's death certificate lists his cause of death as "asphyxia due to smothering and chest compression," the Dec. 2, 2003, autopsy, quoted in classified documents and released with redactions, showed that Mowhoush had "contusions and abrasions with pattern impressions" over much of his body, and six fractured ribs. Investigators believed a "long straight-edge instrument" was used on Mowhoush, as well as an "object like the end of an M-16" rifle.
"Although the investigation indicates the death was directly related to the non-standard interrogation methods employed on 26 NOV, the circumstances surrounding the death are further complicated due to Mowhoush being interrogated and reportedly beaten by members of a Special Forces team and other government agency (OGA) employees two days earlier," said a secret Army memo dated May 10, 2004..."
I don't like this man. I don't like the Republican Guard. I don't like Saddam Hussein. However, I dislike more the false representation by my government that somehow, it is the good guy, liberating Iraq from the terror of Saddam Hussein. Bullshit, yes we removed Hussein's terror, but we immediately replaced it with our own Yankee Doodle version. Furthermore, we are CONSTANTLY lying about it as well.
"Nov. 28, 2003
A former Iraqi general suspected of financing anti-coalition activities died yesterday while being interrogated by US forces in the town of Qaim, 200 miles north-west of Baghdad.
A statement by the coalition in Baghdad said Major-General Abed Hamed Mowhoush, who was in the Republican Guard, was captured near the Syrian border on October 5. He fell ill yesterday morning during "an interview with US forces", and died.
"Mowhoush said he didn't feel well and subsequently lost consciousness," the statement said. "The soldier questioning him found no pulse and called for medical authorities. A surgeon responded within five minutes to continue advanced cardiac life support techniques, but they were ineffective." He was pronounced dead by a US military physician.
According to the on-site surgeon it appeared Gen Mowhoush had died of "natural causes", the military said, adding that his death was being investigated. He was one of 112 people arrested during an anti-insurgency sweep around Qaim, which is about a mile from the Syrian border"
LIES LIES LIES...all of it US Government LIES. I saw the same **** in Kosovo and Somalia. Same exact ****.
If our government "has" to act like this as you say, then they need to ******* say so, do it, and take full credit and responsibility for same. Why don't they? Because it's very wrong to beat people to death. It's very wrong to torture people. It's something sick, perverted mother ******* do, not the good old USA "we're here to help you" government.
Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
Oh my ***, let's go so far out of the realm of reality it's not even funny. I bet you were one of the idiots claiming gay marriage would lead to people wanting to marry their dog...
I could not torture anybody. Ever. Of that I am sure.
However, I can CLEARLY understand the Iraqi's fighting in the streets now. Let me reverse the situation on you. A foreign government claiming to want to help liberate you, bombs your entire village, destroys homes, killing men, women and children. Whole sections of your family are murdered in a single blow. Your country stands in ruin, economic collapse is everywhere. All government functions and infrastructure have been destroyed. Unemployment in your country stands at 70% and is rising. People you know are secretly whisked away and vanish without a trace. Hospitals are in ruin. Your daughter has amebic dysentary and medicine is virtually non-existent. Violence is in the streets day and night.
Would you just sit around your home, starving and destitute, while this nation that is "helping you" continues to "help you"?
I think not. In fact, I know you'd be fighting in the streets.
If you actually think that one can debate what is and what is not torture, you are one seriously sick mother ******. Unbelievable. Torture, is like pregnancy. It is, or it is not. There is no ambiguity. Sick sick sick. I bet you're a Christian too! Go Fish People...
Sorry, but this is exactly what you do. You inter them into prisoner of war camps for the duration of the war and even longer until the region is safely stabilized.
Okay, now you've gone way out of bounds. Don't even begin to preach to me what are the typical actions of the United States Military. I've ******* served in the U.S. Marines in 3 combat campaigns in 3 seperate continents. I've seen this **** before and I can tell you, it is typical. ****, ******** just like you and snafu are here preaching to me about how it's ******* normal and healthy to feel like you do! Instead of holding soldiers and officers accountable for **** like this, you want to give them a *** **** medal!
The battle we are fighting is a LIE. Do you actually think that majority of the people shooting at us in the street, and building IED's, and trying to force us out of Iraq, are Saddam Hussein loyalists? Do you actually believe that ****? I'll tell you. The majority are Iraqi's who have decided that our "help" is no help at all, and they've suffered war, death, starvation, poverty, instability, and now they want us to leave. What a ******* mess we've made.
OUR way of life? What is that exactly? I'm sure you do not speak for me, and MANY others in the Unted States. Furthermore, exactly how was Iraq a threat to my way of life?
Cracking a few heads? You really are a complete moron. We're talking about the MURDER, as you put it, of a prisioner in US custody, but then again you may be talking about the war in general.
Does this look like cracking a few heads to you? I call it murdered children, injured children, destroyed homes and families. Oh yeah, I'm sure the Iraqi's LOVE us. Afterall, we're there to help them.
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This is not how warriors behave but how thugs operate.
I'm sorry, I don't exactly understand your question. Is it how many Americans need to be killed on American soil by Iraqi thugs? That's easy. One. Unfortunately, that "One" has never happened.
Lastly, your final hyperbole is by far your worst.
You bask in the freedoms for which I dedicated 20+ years of my life defending and most of that in more combat than you could imagine. I joke about the title, by you are the real thug here. You don't have an ethical bone in your body.
Just because I'm not like you and willing to torture and stomp a man to death because he "might have" information, doesn't mean I sing *** By Ya.
I carried my rifle and pack for 22 years and have an honorable discharge from the Marine Corps. I served with honor and distinction.
I can tell by your comments that you never served a day in your life.
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Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
snafu
New member
Your so full of **** CES!
You would'nt slap around or pistol-whip somebody that new where your family was being held hostage. Oh or is that not torture? How about if this was your son? Gee Dad thanks.
You criticizes our laws and the way we handle things and yet you say it’s OK to cane, stone and cut hands off because it’s their law?
Your ****** up!
And do you think for one second that the majority of Iraqi’s or Muslims want Shari law? The ones that have no free thought do. But then that’s the most of them as they are oppressed! Give them freedom and democracy and I’ll bet my last dollar they don’t go back to that ancient barbaric law.
I don’t give a **** about his last ******* breath!!!
I wonder what her last breath was like? Hmmmm........
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Her crime you might ask? being a Christian!!!!!!!
As guilty as you think you were in Kosovo and Somalia you were doing the right thing.
You would'nt slap around or pistol-whip somebody that new where your family was being held hostage. Oh or is that not torture? How about if this was your son? Gee Dad thanks.
You criticizes our laws and the way we handle things and yet you say it’s OK to cane, stone and cut hands off because it’s their law?
Your ****** up!
And do you think for one second that the majority of Iraqi’s or Muslims want Shari law? The ones that have no free thought do. But then that’s the most of them as they are oppressed! Give them freedom and democracy and I’ll bet my last dollar they don’t go back to that ancient barbaric law.
I don’t give a **** about his last ******* breath!!!
I wonder what her last breath was like? Hmmmm........
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Her crime you might ask? being a Christian!!!!!!!
As guilty as you think you were in Kosovo and Somalia you were doing the right thing.
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Jhony5
New member
Has this turned into Rotten.com? We all know that the backwards third world nation we are at war with is mired in barbarism. Nothing new. For every picture one could put up of an American GI brutalizing an insurgent, you could put up 100 pictures of Muslim atrocities. Nothing we don't all know. I think its best if our soldiers maintain a different image then what we see in the Muslim world.
With all the rhetoric and **** references I've heard, I have yet to hear one good argument FOR torture. Just a bunch of pseudo-patriotic chest thumping. I think our boys should rough them up a little to get answers. But torture, sexual humiliation for the purpose of entertainment, and murder are unnecessary and gain nothing. It has been shown that torture is a highly fallible practice that often extorts faulty information. If you start shoving bamboo under my fingernails, I'll tell you anything I think you want to ******* hear. I would like to hear anyone of you argue against that without sounding like a fanatical **** head.
With all the rhetoric and **** references I've heard, I have yet to hear one good argument FOR torture. Just a bunch of pseudo-patriotic chest thumping. I think our boys should rough them up a little to get answers. But torture, sexual humiliation for the purpose of entertainment, and murder are unnecessary and gain nothing. It has been shown that torture is a highly fallible practice that often extorts faulty information. If you start shoving bamboo under my fingernails, I'll tell you anything I think you want to ******* hear. I would like to hear anyone of you argue against that without sounding like a fanatical **** head.
phreakwars
New member
I think the images represent a reality check on both sides and are very relevant to the topic.
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builder
New member
Fair call, Jhony5. Extortion and torture go hand in hand.
From what I've heard of the tactics used at gitmo, some weird **** **** is going on. Not unlike being subjected to the same **** song on a neighbour's stereo, playing over and over again.
Sure to bring out your best and worst. Mind-******* is the name of the game. Bamboo under the fingernails is all about power-tripping. Mind-******* is good cop/bad cop gone bad.
Where is the LSD? Nothing like a trip down memory lane to get the creative imagery flowing.
From what I've heard of the tactics used at gitmo, some weird **** **** is going on. Not unlike being subjected to the same **** song on a neighbour's stereo, playing over and over again.
Sure to bring out your best and worst. Mind-******* is the name of the game. Bamboo under the fingernails is all about power-tripping. Mind-******* is good cop/bad cop gone bad.
Where is the LSD? Nothing like a trip down memory lane to get the creative imagery flowing.
Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
Just like wardmd and the rest of the far-out-right-wing-idiots, you resort to ridiculous "what if" scenarios which have nothing to do with the issue, as if to somehow justify your position.
To answer your question, yet again, even though it doesn't have any relevance, no, I would not torture anybody. Ever. For any reason. Do you understand this?
I criticize HYPOCRISY. Making laws based upon mock ethics, shoving them into the face of the world as being just and good with a straight face, and then disregarding them whenever it suits our purpose and at worst, covertly incorporating this lie and hypocrisy into the very fabric of our military intelligence, procedures, and protocols; the exact opposite of what was once proclaimed as evil! HYPOCRISY.
Do I agree with Sharia? Absolutely not. Is it the LEGAL law of the land in other people's countries? Absolutely yes. Do I respect other peoples to have their own customs, laws and civilizations? Yes. It's THEIR COUNTRY, THEIR SOCIETY, THEIR LAW. Why can't you respect that?
Do you actually mean to tell me that you believe that America has a right to overturn and destroy any aspect of a foreign society that Americans feel is wrong to them? That's what you are saying. Cut the ****. You'd be very happy if America was the only World Superpower and had dominion over the whole ******* planet; that's it right?
Contrary to your chest pounding, the whole world does not want to be like America. I know, this is a HUGE shock to you. Everybody you think is oppressed doesn't feel that way about themselves. Your Holier than Thou stance that you somehow know what the world wants and needs is sickening. Why are you even on a free speech forum? Clearly, you don't like free speech or free action UNLESS it is the right-winged imperialistic variety that you like. You cannot stand the thought that somebody in another country wants something you wouldn't let alone that another American would support them in their desire to not be like America. You're just a leftover of the ******* Imperialistic Age. Sick.
As to your photo, it has no relevance here. It has nothing to do with the situation in Iraq whatsoever. True, their are photos of atrocities commited all over this world every minute of every day. My photos are not designed to show the atrocity of the moment, but rather the artrocity of HYPOCRISY. My photos are from Iraq. They are of the human cost of this war, this "liberation" of Iraq. They reveal the lie that we are the good guys. We are not. The moment we began to utilize those techniques which we once proclaimed evil, we lost all credibility. Now, we are just liars and masters in somebody else's home.
Where did I ever say I was "guilty" for being sent to Kosovo and Somalia? I was a soldier and I was deployed. I did what I was told to do in a military fashion. I never took iron bars or rubber hoses and beat people who were smothered in a sleeping bag. I never choked somebody. I never drowned somebody. I never sat on somebody's chest. I never hit somebody who was tied in a chair, until they couldn't be recognized and I certainly never would have allowed it to be done in my presence. Lastly, I never shot or killed anybody who didn't have a gun or weapon in their hands that they weren't trying to use against me. Maybe that why I'm not in the CIA, nor would I ever want to be.
I'm clearly not the ****** up one here who is full of ****, you are!
ToriAllen
New member
Yes, those images are terrible. Great job on the shock value CES. Do you know where they were taken? When they were taken? The stories behind them? Do you know for sure that this was cause by our men? You should remember the insurgents love their bombs. And, the shooting is usually done by both sides. Not to mention the on again, well, on again wars all over the Middle East. I know you are not suggesting that they were better off back when those even suspected of badmouthing Sadam were dragged off in the middle of the night to be tortured (put through a shredder feet first). Or have their wives and daughters (of any age) raped in front of them. Yeah, I bet they are horrified that that is over. The majority of Iraqis are glad we are there. Many of the insurgents are now from other countries.
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Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
This is another of my points, personified.
On what information do you base your claim? American propaganda, that's what.
Let me clarify my position one last time.
Saddam Hussein: Bad Guy. Had I been there, he would never have exited the spider hole alive.
WMD's: Most successful lie of the 21st Century.
George Bush: Liar. Idiot. Warmonger.
**** Cheney: Big Liar. Genius. War profiteer.
Donald Rumsfeld: Biggest Liar. Genius. Minister of Propaganda.
Halliburton: Corporate greed and corruption of the highest order.
Islamic Sharia Law: Not my cup of tea. Could do without.
Torture: No. Not Ever.
US in Iraq: Invaded without valid justification. Made huge mess. No graceful exit possible.
US in Iran and world at large: Imperialistic Bullying. Eventually bound to backfire in our face.
America: Wonderful country. Good intentions, questionable actions. Lousy government - both parties.
Average US soldier: Hardworking servant. Sacrificial pawns.
Carnage caused by US in Iraq: Deplorable hypocrisy.
Prevailing attitude of Iraqi's toward USA: "Please go away. We don't want anymore of your ''help''."
Do you ever stop to take a moment and look at it from the Arab point of view?
I highly recommend
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
Contrary to propaganda presented by Fox News, Rumsfeld and the like, Al Jazerra is an EXCELLENT source of news.
In addition, if you haven't seen the documentary DVD "Control Room", get it and watch it. It's outstanding.
Lastly and most importantly, if you want to see what a REAL Americal Soldier is supposed to be read these.
The Heros of My Lai, Hugh Thompson and Lawrence Colburn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Colburn
This is the type of American Soldier I respected, admired, and always strived to be like. Not your sick and twisted, torturing, murdering Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr. .
snafu
New member
I got a **** load of pictures of hypocrisy! Road side bombs that killed innocent people. Bombs that killed children as we hand out candy.
What the **** dose free speech have anything to do with the topic other than Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush's free speech. His was forfeited when he took up arms against us.
This girl’s death has everything to do with it! These are the people you say love the Shria law!
pseudo-patriotic chest thumping? That’s just plain cute! Thank you. I’ll take that as a complement. Somebody has to be man (and women) enough to do it!
I am using a “what if” scenario because it’s the smart thing to do. What the ****? You don’t think ahead? I still say bullshit. You would be beating heads together to get your kids back. Likewise Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr. wanted to save lives.
I can respect there ****** up laws too. But when you talk about human rights then NO! If you talk about oppression then NO!
You don’t know you’re a slave until somebody tells you can be free!
Your soooo right that not everybody feels oppressed as you say they aren’t. Lets see Saddam wasn’t. I’m sure his sons were just fine too. Everybody on the top of the pecking order thought everything was just peachy king!
No you said you “LIES LIES LIES...all of it US Government LIES. I saw the same **** in Kosovo and Somalia. Same exact ****”.
This is were your heads at right now! You feel guilty you were lied and deceived. You were not!
Yes we stuck our noses in Veitnam. They they had their Lt Calley’s. Think back then. We were in a struggle with communisim. We tosed Vietgong out hellocopters to get info. So what?
**** it your right I'll just drop my draws and say **** me now! My country sucks! I guess America is a shithole. Lets just adopt Shari law and maybe they'll go away. What do you think CES?
What the **** dose free speech have anything to do with the topic other than Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush's free speech. His was forfeited when he took up arms against us.
This girl’s death has everything to do with it! These are the people you say love the Shria law!
pseudo-patriotic chest thumping? That’s just plain cute! Thank you. I’ll take that as a complement. Somebody has to be man (and women) enough to do it!
I am using a “what if” scenario because it’s the smart thing to do. What the ****? You don’t think ahead? I still say bullshit. You would be beating heads together to get your kids back. Likewise Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr. wanted to save lives.
I can respect there ****** up laws too. But when you talk about human rights then NO! If you talk about oppression then NO!
You don’t know you’re a slave until somebody tells you can be free!
Your soooo right that not everybody feels oppressed as you say they aren’t. Lets see Saddam wasn’t. I’m sure his sons were just fine too. Everybody on the top of the pecking order thought everything was just peachy king!
No you said you “LIES LIES LIES...all of it US Government LIES. I saw the same **** in Kosovo and Somalia. Same exact ****”.
This is were your heads at right now! You feel guilty you were lied and deceived. You were not!
Yes we stuck our noses in Veitnam. They they had their Lt Calley’s. Think back then. We were in a struggle with communisim. We tosed Vietgong out hellocopters to get info. So what?
**** it your right I'll just drop my draws and say **** me now! My country sucks! I guess America is a shithole. Lets just adopt Shari law and maybe they'll go away. What do you think CES?
ToriAllen
New member
I believe I already said it was unacceptable to kill innocent civilians, yet somehow you keep bringing us back around to that.
Did you ever stop to think there might be more than one Arab viewpoint, just like there is more than one American viewpoint? Hence my use of the term
Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
I think you don't have a valid argument on any of this. You are just full of hot air chest pounding false patriotism bullshit. I think you are Machiavellian in your look on things; that the end result somehow justifies the means.
The best one you did there was "Likewise Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr. wanted to save lives. "
I heard this before, in a movie with Jack Nicholson; remember A Few Good Men? "You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives...You ******' people. You have no idea how to defend a nation. All you did was weaken a country today, Kaffee. That's all you did. You put people's lives in danger. Sweet dreams, son. "
I bet you cried when they took Jack Nicholson's character into custody and led him out the courtroom.
Common decency, honor, and ethics disgust you don't they? They get in your way of how you think wars should be fought.
By the way, just because I said some of the men in the government, the military and intelligence service of this nation are unethical monsters, doesn't mean I hate my country or that it is a pile of ****. Your penchant for huperbole knows no limits does it? Calling a "spade" a "spade" does not make me an America hater; something I surely am not.
Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
Please. Of all the places in the Middle East, the State of Qatar, where Al Jazeera is based, is not like that. Please do a little research and open up your mind to the possibility that the majority of Iraqi's and Arabs in general, donot view us as "helping".
Cogito Ergo Sum
New member
Please, I'm going to throw up my lunch at your false ethics and sudden morality.
Will you and all of the other asswipes out there, please pick the real reason you justify bombing and invading Iraq. You all change reasons like the wind changes directions. Make up your mind.
As to the girl on the table, I don't know the story about that picture, and I doubt that you do either. However, I am quite sure she is from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh and that it has nothing to do with Iraq. Perhaps you have a hyperlink showing something otherwise?
snafu
New member
Sure I know the story. Why would I post it if I didn't?
Your close. Indonesia. But it’s the same thing. Oppression and innocent victims of a ****** up religion/law!
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/
Your close. Indonesia. But it’s the same thing. Oppression and innocent victims of a ****** up religion/law!
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/