NO EVIDENCE OF GODS

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:13:10 +0800, in alt.atheism
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
<45d8c8b6$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>news:2ijet2d0cqie79k9n76le2tn8n26m4k1ub@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 06:57:25 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> <45d6f3b5$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:1171557849.413643.272690@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Feb 15, 7:22 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2:17?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>>>> > On 15 Feb., 00:29, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>> > > On Feb 13, 8:34?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>> > > > Free Lunch wrote:
>>>>> > > > > On 13 Feb 2007 16:54:11 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>>> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>>>>> > > > > <1171414451.120125.63...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>>>> > > > > >On Feb 13, 2:10 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>>>> > snip
>>>>>
>>>>> > > > > >I offered to send you a copy of the Bible. ?You have
>>>>> > > > > >consistently
>>>>> > > > > >maintained that the Bible does not exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> > > > > How many more times will you repeat that lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> > > > He is lying for god - so it's Okay.
>>>>>
>>>>> > > Well, Bob, does the Bible exist or not? ?You say whether it exists.
>>>>> > > Don't try to call me a liar just because I called your bluff.
>>>>>
>>>>> > You are a liar. ?You said that I and others claimed the Bible did not
>>>>> > exist. ?Not only was that a lie, it was incredibly silly. ?You called
>>>>> > nobody's bluff; you just told a silly lie.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> > - Show quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> You are still claiming that the Bible does not exist. If I ask you
>>>>> about Isaiah's account of the Assyrian invasion of Judea, you reply
>>>>> with an inane question about fictional characters. So, the
>>>>> conversation is over. You are claiming that the Bible does not exist.
>>>>> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> You are pathetic, Bobby. You've done violence to the English language
>>>> with your mendacity, and your only alternative now to propagate your
>>>> superstition is violence against the person.
>>>> Philosophers and freethinkers don't do violence, but it's second
>>>> nature with you Christians.
>>>>
>>> Religion IS Philosophy, and free thinkers allowed Hitler to sell His
>>>values to his nation and which caused the misery and death of untold
>>>millions. Apparently, your simplistic mind would believe anyone who says
>>>he
>>>is a Christian, even if he did, as well as advocate doing the opposite
>>>from
>>>the principles Christ stands for to His death on the cross. "Pathetic"
>>>indeed!!!! See below
>>
>> You know that Hitler appealed to Christians and got them to support him.
>> You know that the slaveholders appealed to Christians and caused a
>> terrible war in the US.
>>
> The devil "appeals to Christians" but Bible believing Christians don't
>believe him. Do YOU believe the devil?

Of course not. The devil is just another Christian (demi)god.
 
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:53:25 +0800, in alt.atheism
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
<45d9c68a$0$16269$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>"Paul Ransom Erickson" <prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:u4qft2ppbprus69bal5qdcjtjptkp7inf6@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:51:58 GMT, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
>> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:35:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>>>"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>>><45d6f3c4$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>>>news:021at2dduc81elh421vfel0tr3he94oqc0@4ax.com...
>>>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:31:43 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
>>>>> <1171542703.680913.131700@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, Thomas, here we see the last refuge of the atheist, the personal
>>>>>>attack. We were discussing the Bible here in alt.bible. Now everyone
>>>>>>can see your purpose in intruding in our conversation. If you do not
>>>>>>want to talk about the Bible, why don't you go live the happy life of
>>>>>>an atheist?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in alt.atheism watching you tell your lies. Why are you posting
>>>>> your
>>>>> lies in alt.atheism.
>>>>>
>>>> Because a.a. is ABOUT atheism, not a refuge FOR atheists. Also,
>>>> atheist
>>>>doctrine demands, that what we consider the truth, atheists MUST call
>>>>lies
>>>>or face excommunication and confiscation of their number.
>>>
>>>As people have pointed out again and again, yet you, in your hubris
>>>refuse to acknowledge, there is no such thing as atheist doctrine.
>>>
>>>It appears that you hate people.
>>
>> Indeed. He spends a lot of time on alt.atheism telling us how awful
>> he thinks we are.
>>
> Non sequitur to what I wrote. My comments concerned atheism as a
>philosophy of life, not atheists as persons. But then atheism requires
>atheists to ALWAYS emphasis faults, errors, shortcomings, insufficiencies
>etc. to the exclusion of affirming what is good, right, desirable, and
>salutary.
> That is what hell is all about, all negative and despairing and nothing
>positive and hopeful. And that is also why Christ came to bring us the Good
>News.

As you know, atheism is not a philosophy of life.

You choose to lie about it. Why is that?

Is your god so pitifully weak that he needs your help? Does he fail if
no one lies for him?
 
Dan@V.A. wrote:
> "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
> news:Za6dnScGA9ood0TYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com...
(snip)
>> I agree. I can politely disagree and decline, just as you
>> can do when an atheist tries to lead you out of your
>> delusions. And I generally do just that, until they get pushy.
>>
> Delusions?
> It's amazing that atheist can absolutely without any reservation
> at all what-so-ever, somehow claim to _know_ there is no god
> and that its all delusions. This is a claim. A claim that has yet
> to be proven.

We have been discussing the atheist's possible motivation
for posting to a religious newsgroup. I used a word that
pretty fairly depicts my personal opinion about religious
belief as superstitious delusion. I wasn't trying to
persuade you that this opinion represents factual truth
about any particular hypothetical god. I thought we are
trying to get into the mind of atheists, here, not actually
argue their case.

I don't have strong opinions on the actual existence of any
particular hypothetical god unless the person claiming the
reality of that existence is willing to go into some detail
as to what, exactly he is talking about. It is just someone
else's superstition.

(snip)
>> You describe resentment that is foreign to me. I see lots
>> of expressions of contentment and satisfaction with
>> religious experience and also high divorce rates, child
>> abuse, smugness, superiority complexes and all sorts of
>> other none enviable aspects of religious belief. I cannot
>> muster envy of smug claims of satisfaction that do not ring
>> true.
>>
> Divorce rate, child abuse etc are not the properity of the
> religious.

Granted. But religious people often hide their problems
under a gloss of smug satisfaction and contentment that is a
cover for their suffering and repression, because that is
what is acceptable in their circle of religious
acquaintance. I think that sort of practice at pretending
is missing from lots of atheists. But I am sure exceptions
go both ways.
 
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:18:14 +0800, in alt.atheism
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
<45d8c8bc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>news:gkjet2pee0tg2c34t10askqsbgnf602ahb@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:35:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> <45d6f3c4$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>>news:021at2dduc81elh421vfel0tr3he94oqc0@4ax.com...
>>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:31:43 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
>>>> <1171542703.680913.131700@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, Thomas, here we see the last refuge of the atheist, the personal
>>>>>attack. We were discussing the Bible here in alt.bible. Now everyone
>>>>>can see your purpose in intruding in our conversation. If you do not
>>>>>want to talk about the Bible, why don't you go live the happy life of
>>>>>an atheist?
>>>>
>>>> I'm in alt.atheism watching you tell your lies. Why are you posting your
>>>> lies in alt.atheism.
>>>>
>>> Because a.a. is ABOUT atheism, not a refuge FOR atheists. Also,
>>> atheist
>>>doctrine demands, that what we consider the truth, atheists MUST call lies
>>>or face excommunication and confiscation of their number.
>>
>> As people have pointed out again and again, yet you, in your hubris
>> refuse to acknowledge, there is no such thing as atheist doctrine.
>> It appears that you hate people.
>>
> Then what is it your are proselytizing?

Nothing.

>And which has as it's central theme: "There ain't no god(s)"?

I don't say that. I state that there is absolutely no evidence for any
gods. You choose to falsely claim that I have said something else.

> Then show the connection between "hating people" and atheist doctrine
>about the existence of god(s).

Your hatred toward people has nothing to do with atheism, but everything
to do with your hubris. You condemn all who don't believe as you teach.

>Either that, or admit you are just lying again for atheism.

No. You know I'm not lying. You are the one who loves to lie.
 
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:26:29 +0800, in alt.atheism
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
<45d8c8c2$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>news:eek:mjet2lb8mv0d5vsn42nec28tu6vo4gn00@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:37:59 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> <45d6f3c9$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>>news:j31at2l12hkhm60fc8cs025gduu2uo2a2d@4ax.com...
>>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:52:39 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
>>>> <1171543959.023629.8540@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>On Feb 15, 4:35?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>>> rbwinn wrote:
>>>>>> > On Feb 13, 8:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > > Free Lunch wrote:
>>>>>> > > > On 13 Feb 2007 16:39:50 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>>>> > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>>>>>> > > > <1171413590.219240.10...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>> > > > >On Feb 12, 9:25 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>>>>> > > > >> On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > > >> > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > > >> > > ?Not even just one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > > >> > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at
>>>>>> > > > >> > > least one god
>>>>>> > > > >> > > would make itself known.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > > >> > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible?
>>>>>> > > > >> > Robert B. Winn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > > >> Why, don't you have any evidence to offer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > > >All things that exist show that there is a God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > [I must remember to add that 'little gem' to my list of
>>>>>> > > 'Religious propagator's backs to the wall cop-out's]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Well, Bob, you were willing to provide us with a list of evil
>>>>>> > spirits. hy don't you make a list for us of the things that do not
>>>>>> > show that there is a God?
>>>>>> > Robert B. Winn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with pleasure
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Preface]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
>>>>>> fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
>>>>>> [Stephen Roberts]
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, there is really no such thing as an atheist. All atheists will
>>>>>eventually confess that there is a God.
>>>>
>>>> Another smug little self-righteous lie from the man who rejects Jesus's
>>>> teachings about hypocricy.
>>>>
>>> Quote Jesus on that, or admit you are lying for atheism.
>>
>> Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for
>> ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in
>> yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
>>
>> 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour
>> widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall
>> receive the greater damnation.
>>
>> 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea
>> and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold
>> more the child of hell than yourselves.
>>
>> You _know_ that I do not lie.
>>
> Who is "rejecting the teachings of Jesus" more than atheists? You ARE
>lying about us followers of Christ rejecting His teaching like atheists do?
>We are no Pharisees either.

Then it appears that you are no follower of Jesus. From the evidence of
your posts, I am more of a follower than you are, but I don't happen to
think there are any gods, so you get all upset. You, on the other hand,
are just like the Pharisees that were presented in the New Testament:
self-righteous, rigid, indifferent to those around you, completely
obsessed with the law.

> You got yourself between a rock and a hard place. Is that why you now
>screech nonsense to extricate yourself from your lies?

As I said. I don't lie.
 
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
<45d8c8cc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>news:d2ket2h01hvlobma2mv2dl4s7got2mo5eu@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 06:41:50 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> <45d6f3b1$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:1171556592.592585.319940@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Feb 14, 3:17 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1171374673.776239.100670@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> What is it that you think you are going to accomplish by making all of
>>>>> these lists of things you do not believe?
>>>>> Do you have any lists of things you believe?
>>>>> Robert B. Winn
>>>>> ------------------
>>>>> Atheists ONLY have lists of disbeliefs.
>>>>
>>>> No, they believe in reality, in the scientific method, in the fossil
>>>> record, in the beauties of the world and universe, and are skeptical
>>>> of people who make claims based on a book whose provenance is at best
>>>> a pretence without corroboration.
>>>>
>>> So you say, but atheists only talk about their disbeliefs and never
>>> say
>>>anything they believe.
>>
>> False witness from Frank. Who would have expected that after so many of
>> his lie filled comments in the past.
>>
> Thanks for proving my point. So you disbelieve what I just said, as
>usual, and are now claiming that atheism is a belief system, instead of a
>disbelief system. Let's see you prove that. Either prove it, or admit your
>just lying for atheism again.

You are the one who calls atheism a belief system. I call you on your
lie. Atheism is not a form of belief. Lack of belief is not a system.
You know that. You appear to like lying. Why is that?
 
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:07:20 +0800, in alt.atheism
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
<45d9c67d$0$16269$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>"Paul Ransom Erickson" <prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:n83ft2l51m41jk686v172i57t3i2invsbp@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:14:54 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
>> <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1171374673.776239.100670@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> What is it that you think you are going to accomplish by making all of
>>>> these lists of things you do not believe?
>>>> Do you have any lists of things you believe?
>>>> Robert B. Winn
>>>
>>> Atheists believe that by listing all they don't believe, what's left
>>>over MUST be the truth. Unfortunately for them, there are an infinite
>>>number
>>>of things which are not true, and very few thing which are true. So they
>>>will never reach that desired end. Not only that, but because atheists
>>>look
>>>only for what is untrue and lies, were they to come across the truth they
>>>would miss it altogether.
>>
>> As usual, you think you know all about "athsists" based on your own
>> past. I bet you haven't really changed much.
>>
> I changed from a self-justified sinner, to a repentant one.

Your actions show the behavior of self-righteous man with no humility.

....
 
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:45:57 -0500, "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups
>with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the
>Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope.
>IE _the hope that there is no God.
>Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of
>their own positions in respect to God and religion.

It could well be. Many of the "atheists" I've met hereabouts are
"recovering Christians". That is, they have experienced some crisis
that has crippled them. In an attempt to repair themselves, they have
either lost or else violently cast aside their faith and belief. Too
many of these converts to Atheism end up in reality as anti-theists
rather than proper atheists. They rant and rave against God and
religion -- almost always the Christian idea of God and the Christian
religion -- and offer little more than insult and emotionalism.

>If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter
>to them?

It matters very much because they have not really left their faith
behind them. They have only gone through the to the Other Side, as it
were, of faith, and they have converted to un-faith. You'll notice
that the claim is made that many so-called atheists are more familiar
with the Bible than most Christians - - and this seems to be so. Also,
most of them are almost pathologically fixated on God, more so than
most Christians.

There are religions that are atheistic (certain forms of Buddhism
being classic examples). I've not met a Buddhist that has railed away
against God the way these particular "atheists" do. I think this is
really because God is a much bigger part of their lives than they are
willing to admit. If God really were nothing to them, they would be
able to ignore those pesky Christians when they come a-trolling
through alt.atheism. They certainly wouldn't feel the need to post
threads like this one in a religious newgroup.

>Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God
>exist?

Sometimes they claim a vague altruism -- the old "Christianity is a
delusion, and I take is as my civic duty to stamp out delusion and
ignorance where I find it".

>How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there
>is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right.

Presumably you mean "same right to believe that there _is_ a God".

>I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their religion
>down their throats,

Christian prosletysation, for all it is "commanded" by Jesus (or more
likely, commanded by a later editor in Jesus's name), is very bad
behaviour. Jesus never went around prosletysing. He went to a place --
out of the way, mind -- and began to teach. People came to him; he
didn't knock on their doors and harangue them. He said that if people
reject your message, to leave in peace, doing no more than knocking
the dust off your shoes.

>this somehow in their minds justifies their attacks
>on Christians,

The bad behaviour of Christians doesn't justify bad behaviour on the
part of "atheists". They would win more points in this game if they
could learn to be civil and act decently. The Christians could too, by
the way!

>but this is impossible to force conversion and futile
>even if it were for the simple reason it would not be an honest
>sincere conversion.

Sure. I really don't think forced conversion, one way or the other, is
really the issue. You can't get away with that in modern times.

>You can lead a horse to water but you cannot
>force him to drink.

Indeed.

> Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it
>galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel
>and express because of their religious faith.

This is possible. Given that so many "atheists" came from Christian
backgrounds, it seems quite likely.

Padraic

>Dan
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>> > > > "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
>> >
>> > >news:1171435012.693634.303310@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> > > > On 13 Feb., 22:47, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > > "Semper Lib
 
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:45:56 -0500, in alt.atheism
Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in
<kqbkt2pb3fhvbg9vucgdjmnhvqkvrje6o5@4ax.com>:
>On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:45:57 -0500, "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>
>>It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups
>>with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the
>>Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope.
>>IE _the hope that there is no God.
>>Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of
>>their own positions in respect to God and religion.
>
>It could well be. Many of the "atheists" I've met hereabouts are
>"recovering Christians". That is, they have experienced some crisis
>that has crippled them. In an attempt to repair themselves, they have
>either lost or else violently cast aside their faith and belief. Too
>many of these converts to Atheism end up in reality as anti-theists
>rather than proper atheists. They rant and rave against God and
>religion -- almost always the Christian idea of God and the Christian
>religion -- and offer little more than insult and emotionalism.
>
>>If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter
>>to them?
>
>It matters very much because they have not really left their faith
>behind them. They have only gone through the to the Other Side, as it
>were, of faith, and they have converted to un-faith. You'll notice
>that the claim is made that many so-called atheists are more familiar
>with the Bible than most Christians - - and this seems to be so. Also,
>most of them are almost pathologically fixated on God, more so than
>most Christians.
>
>There are religions that are atheistic (certain forms of Buddhism
>being classic examples). I've not met a Buddhist that has railed away
>against God the way these particular "atheists" do. I think this is
>really because God is a much bigger part of their lives than they are
>willing to admit. If God really were nothing to them, they would be
>able to ignore those pesky Christians when they come a-trolling
>through alt.atheism. They certainly wouldn't feel the need to post
>threads like this one in a religious newgroup.



>>Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God
>>exist?
>
>Sometimes they claim a vague altruism -- the old "Christianity is a
>delusion, and I take is as my civic duty to stamp out delusion and
>ignorance where I find it".
>
>>How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there
>>is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right.
>
>Presumably you mean "same right to believe that there _is_ a God".
>
>>I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their religion
>>down their throats,
>
>Christian prosletysation, for all it is "commanded" by Jesus (or more
>likely, commanded by a later editor in Jesus's name), is very bad
>behaviour. Jesus never went around prosletysing. He went to a place --
>out of the way, mind -- and began to teach. People came to him; he
>didn't knock on their doors and harangue them. He said that if people
>reject your message, to leave in peace, doing no more than knocking
>the dust off your shoes.
>
>>this somehow in their minds justifies their attacks
>>on Christians,
>
>The bad behaviour of Christians doesn't justify bad behaviour on the
>part of "atheists". They would win more points in this game if they
>could learn to be civil and act decently. The Christians could too, by
>the way!
>
>>but this is impossible to force conversion and futile
>>even if it were for the simple reason it would not be an honest
>>sincere conversion.
>
>Sure. I really don't think forced conversion, one way or the other, is
>really the issue. You can't get away with that in modern times.
>
>>You can lead a horse to water but you cannot
>>force him to drink.
>
>Indeed.
>
>> Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it
>>galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel
>>and express because of their religious faith.
>
>This is possible. Given that so many "atheists" came from Christian
>backgrounds, it seems quite likely.
>
>Padraic
>
>>Dan
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > > "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
>>> >
>>> > >news:1171435012.693634.303310@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>> > > > On 13 Feb., 22:47, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > > "Semper Lib
 
On 18 Feb 2007 23:37:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <45D9373A.E9674EF3@netvigator.com>
>
>
>rbwinn wrote:
>
>> On Feb 14, 4:44??
 
Bill M wrote:

> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:1171882240.560918.302160@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 18, 10:07?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > rbwinn wrote:
> > > On Feb 17, 10:36?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > > > rbwinn wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 17, 12:59?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > > > >news:1171521149.118439.271150@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > On Feb 14, 9:21?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 18:59:33 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > <1171508373.435033.309...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > > > > >On Feb 14, 5:24?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > >> > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > > > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > >> > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > > > > >> > ...
> >
> > > > > > > >> > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. incoln
> > > > > > > >> > >said on
> > > > > > > >> > >several occasions that he believed the Bible.
> >
> > > > > > > >> > Source with complete context please.
> >
> > > > > > > >> You'll never get it, not anything genuine.
> >
> > > > > > > >> Our religious kook might give you a forgery, as David Barton
> > > > > > > >> did in
> > > > > > > >> his book.
> >
> > > > > > > forged quote of Lincoln is making its rounds in usenet at>> this
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > moment. t recommends hunting down and hanging anyone
> > > > > > > >> critical of the war effort.
> >
> > > > > > > pundit has already confessed that he is
> >
> > > > > > > >> the author of the quote.
> >
> > > > > > > >> The fraud was perpetrated by one of the Moonie rags, either
> > > > > > > >> the Moonie
> > > > > > > >> Times or that bag of internet lies called _Insight Magazine._
> >
> > > > > > > >Well, why don't you atheists just wait until after the
> > > > > > > >resurrection
> > > > > > > >and ask Abraham Lincoln in person if he believed the Bible?
> > > > > > > >I see no reason to worry about it myself.
> >
> > > > > > > Because you know that you have absolutely no evidence at all
> > > > > > > that there
> > > > > > > is going to be a resurrection, yet you keep trying to duck
> > > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > with your silly incantation.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. That is all the evidence we need.
> > > > > > Robert B. Winn
> >
> > > > > > You do not seem to understand the difference between a claim, a
> > > > > > fable and
> > > > > > objective verifiable evidence!- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > > I can tell, Bill. Fables are stories that give animals human
> > > > > characteristics, sort of like the theory of evolution. The Apostle
> > > > > Paul said that.........
> >
> > > > .....irresponsible childish nonsense - there is no way in this world
> > > > that we
> > > > have any idea what a so called 'apostle' was supposed to have said
> > > > over two
> > > > thousand years ago....... grow up
> >
> > > > By the way, apostles and prophets were all charlatans as they got up
> > > > and claimed
> > > > [or wrote claiming] that they had a direct link with a god - they were
> > > > all lying
> > > > through their teeth.
> >
> > > > So much for apostles !
> >
> > > No, apostles and prophets were called of God to testify of Christ. I
> > > know this seems incredible to a person like you who has only
> > > associated with atheists and other dishonest people.
> > > Robert B. Winn
> >
> > Idiot - i was confirmed at 21
> >
> > .................but then had the intelligence to see through the lunacy
> >
> > Called to testify !? Your invisible god does no calling today does it,
> > only claimed
> > to have happened so far back to times when nothing can be verified
> >
> > - how convenient- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he who is called of God as
> was Aaron.
> The priesthood, which is the authority to speak for God, cannot be
> obtained except by ordination under the hands of someone who has that
> authority. Aaron was ordained by Moses, Moses was ordained by his
> father in law, Jethro.

Yes we humans are very good at 'scratching each others backs'
it is part of grooming process and making sure we are, collectively, safe.

No gods needed or indeed exist,
simply man's primitive needs - they exist all right !

>
> Robert B. Winn
>
> More biblical 'nonsense'!
 
rbwinn wrote:

> On Feb 18, 10:09�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > rbwinn wrote:
> > > On Feb 17, 10:32�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > > > Bill M wrote:
> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message
> > > > >news:1171521149.118439.271150@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > On Feb 14, 9:21?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 18:59:33 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > > > <1171508373.435033.309...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > > > >On Feb 14, 5:24?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > > > >> > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > > > >> > ...
> >
> > > > > > >> > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. incoln said on
> > > > > > >> > >several occasions that he believed the Bible.
> >
> > > > > > >> > Source with complete context please.
> >
> > > > > > >> You'll never get it, not anything genuine.
> >
> > > > > > >> Our religious kook might give you a forgery, as David Barton did in
> > > > > > >> his book.
> >
> > > > > > forged quote of Lincoln is making its rounds in usenet at>> this very
> > > > > > moment.
 
rbwinn wrote:

> On Feb 18, 10:26�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > rbwinn wrote:
> > > On Feb 17, 9:34�pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > > > On 17 Feb 2007 17:49:29 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > <1171763369.009719.61...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > >On Feb 17, 7:18?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > > > >> On 17 Feb 2007 04:25:58 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > >> <1171715158.037133.217...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:>On Feb 16, 2:19?pm, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
> > > > >> >> On 16 Feb., 15:20, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:> On Feb 15, 8:57 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> > > On Feb 15, 7:01?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> snip
> >
> > > > >> >> > > You forgot about Isaiah.
> > > > >> >> > > Isaiah 1:4
> >
> > > > >> h sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of>> > > evildoers, children that are corrupters; 4hey have forsaken the Lord,
> > > > >> >> > > they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone
> > > > >> >> > > away backward.
> > > > >> >> > > Let's see how long you can last, atheist.
> > > > >> >> > > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > >> >> > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > > >> >> > LOL!
> >
> > > > >> obby thinks he's causing great discomfort like holding a cross
> >
> > > > >> >> > up to the face of a vampire.-
> >
> > > > >> >> It is strange isn't it? % really seems to believe that reading
> > > > >> >> verses from Isaiah will scare atheists.
 
Pastor Frank wrote:

> "bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:45D7E7A8.270EB212@netvigator.com...
> > Free Lunch wrote:
> >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 06:57:25 +0800, in alt.atheism
> >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
> >> <45d6f3b5$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
> >> >"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:1171557849.413643.272690@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> On Feb 15, 7:22 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >> >>> On Feb 15, 2:17?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
> >> >>> > On 15 Feb., 00:29, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > > On Feb 13, 8:34?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > > > Free Lunch wrote:
> >> >>> > > > > On 13 Feb 2007 16:54:11 -0800, in alt.atheism
> >> >>> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> >> >>> > > > > <1171414451.120125.63...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
> >> >>> > > > > >On Feb 13, 2:10 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk>
> >> >>> > > > > >wrote:
> >> >>> > snip
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > > > > >I offered to send you a copy of the Bible. ?You have
> >> >>> > > > > >consistently
> >> >>> > > > > >maintained that the Bible does not exist.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > > > > How many more times will you repeat that lie.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > > > He is lying for god - so it's Okay.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > > Well, Bob, does the Bible exist or not? ?You say whether it
> >> >>> > > exists.
> >> >>> > > Don't try to call me a liar just because I called your bluff.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > You are a liar. ?You said that I and others claimed the Bible did
> >> >>> > not
> >> >>> > exist. ?Not only was that a lie, it was incredibly silly. ?You
> >> >>> > called
> >> >>> > nobody's bluff; you just told a silly lie.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > - Show quoted text -
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You are still claiming that the Bible does not exist. If I ask you
> >> >>> about Isaiah's account of the Assyrian invasion of Judea, you reply
> >> >>> with an inane question about fictional characters. So, the
> >> >>> conversation is over. You are claiming that the Bible does not
> >> >>> exist.
> >> >>> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -
> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> >>
> >> >> You are pathetic, Bobby. You've done violence to the English language
> >> >> with your mendacity, and your only alternative now to propagate your
> >> >> superstition is violence against the person.
> >> >> Philosophers and freethinkers don't do violence, but it's second
> >> >> nature with you Christians.
> >> >>
> >> > Religion IS Philosophy, and free thinkers allowed Hitler to sell His
> >> >values to his nation and which caused the misery and death of untold
> >> >millions. Apparently, your simplistic mind would believe anyone who says
> >> >he
> >> >is a Christian, even if he did, as well as advocate doing the opposite
> >> >from
> >> >the principles Christ stands for to His death on the cross. "Pathetic"
> >> >indeed!!!! See below
> >>
> >> You know that Hitler appealed to Christians and got them to support him.
> >> You know that the slaveholders appealed to Christians and caused a
> >> terrible war in the US.
> >
> > In The Deep South slave owners forced their slaves to go to church
> > [separately]
> > now they have their own chapels with mega dollar bank accounts.
> >
> > Not only did they enslave them physically, they enslaved them mentally
> > too.
> >
> You forgot to finish your sentence again Bob!!!! What you wanted to say
> is: ....enslave them mentally too, and I wouldn't have it any other way. For
> once everybody has no beliefs anymore and is like me, I would have no place
> to hide and be safe any longer!!

Another oblique weak response
laced with sarcasm and nastiness

I win again it seems



>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
On Feb 18, 6:33�pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com>
wrote:
> After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007 7:12 pm
> rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 18, 12:29?pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com>
> > wrote:
> >> After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007
> >> 10:59 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote:
>
> >> > I feel better already. ??Here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten
> >> > your day.
>
> >> Which Isaiah? ??You realize that there were at least four people or
> >> schools writing under the name of Isaiah and throughout several
> >> centuries don't you? ??Isaiah is a composition by many not the work
> >> of one man.
>
> >> In addition there is nothing outside the bible to evidence that an
> >> Isaiah really existed. ??He was made up much later by the proxy
> >> priests appointed by Darius, who just happens to have been called the
> >> messiah in the Old Testament (along with David, a donkey, two
> >> pillars, a stone and a loaf of bread).
>
> >> --
> >> Later,
> >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com
>
> > Sorry, Darrell, it was all written by the same person.
 
On Feb 19, 2:35�pm, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 2:15 pm, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "John Popelish" <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:Za6dnScGA9ood0TYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> > > D...@V.A. wrote:
> > > > "John Popelish" <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote in message
> > > >news:2KednRE7E4QGR0TYnZ2dnUVZ_qCmnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > > >> D...@V.A. wrote:
> > > >>> It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups
> > > >>> with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the
> > > >>> Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope.
> > > >>> IE _the hope that there is no God.
> > > >> Dan, please apply that train of thought to religious
> > > >> missionaries that go out into areas where their beliefs are
> > > >> strange and mistrusted, essentially an attack of the
> > > >> indigenous belief structure of the people that minister to.
> > > >>
 
On Feb 19, 7:46�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 10:35
 
rbwinn wrote:

> On Feb 18, 10:15�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > rbwinn wrote:
> > > On Feb 18, 8:57�am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > > > On 18 Feb 2007 07:53:50 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > <1171814030.140365.45...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > >On Feb 17, 10:32?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Bill M wrote:
> > > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> >news:1171521149.118439.271150@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >> > On Feb 14, 9:21?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > > > >> > > On 14 Feb 2007 18:59:33 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > >> > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > >> > > <1171508373.435033.309...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > >> > > >On Feb 14, 5:24?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > > >> > > >> On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> > > >> > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > >> > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > >> > > >> > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > >> > > >> > ...
> >
> > > > >> > > >> > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. incoln said on
> > > > >> > > >> > >several occasions that he believed the Bible.
> >
> > > > >> > > >> > Source with complete context please.
> >
> > > > >> > > >> You'll never get it, not anything genuine.
> >
> > > > >> > > >> Our religious kook might give you a forgery, as David Barton did in
> > > > >> > > >> his book.
> >
> > > > >> > > forged quote of Lincoln is making its rounds in usenet at>> this very
> > > > >> > > moment.
 
rbwinn wrote:

> On Feb 18, 10:37�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > rbwinn wrote:
> > > On Feb 14, 4:44�pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
> > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > > > ...
> >
> > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell.
 

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