Patriotism

[wez]

Isn't it common knowledge that might = right and fear = respect and we have no choice but to accept it, or else?

 

[ImWithStupid]

Capitalist society creates a caste system very similar to Ingsoc of 1984 (just trying to stick to common examples again); Inner Party (rich), Outer Party (middle class), Proles (poor). As in Ingsoc, we've created through capitalism, a system which maintains its self by adopting or eliminating those who pose a threat to this established social order. Middle becomes too capable, they are adopted into upper or they're crushed through state mechanisms. Likewise with the proles. We see the greatest zealotry up top, and the most social control in the middle. Social control takes many forms, most being much more effective then a simple gun totting goon (but lets not forget the one and only 'legitimate' purveyors of forces: the pigs). The middle is most essential for the function of the system, the top maintains itself indefinitely and the bottom requires little attention as living conditions become a sort of free range prison of mind and body. Even with the adoption of a functional middle, something not so characteristic of out-dated systems of old, those on bottom (particulary in a global) far out number those key figures 'above' them.

I'm not sure you get 1984. It's a call out against what happens in a communist society not a capitalist society. I disagree whole heartedly with you about your assessment. Capitalism is the only system that allows one to succeed and advance themselves through hard work and determination. What you are describing is what happens in communist society. I've studied communism and had travelled to the USSR before the collapse.

In communism you have your three easily defined classes. The Inner Party are members of the central elite in power and control of the state. The Outer Party would be those with valuable knowledge to those in the Inner Party like engineers, scientist, doctors and such. The Proles would be the rest of the population who are mere labor.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Isn't it common knowledge that might = right and fear = respect and we have no choice but to accept it, or else?

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drawn her depression?

That's a fine way to go through life; fearing the bully and never making a stand. By your rationale, you'd let the bully wail on you until he tires out or loses interest.

Give into your base human desires. Crack his skull. He deserves it.

What does this have to do with "patriotism"? Everything and nothing at all.

 

[hugo]

Socialist "libertarianism' is simply a new name the Marxists picked out due to the fact the ideas of Marx have been a bit tainted by the actions of those who have come to power through the appeal to Marxist ideology. Like the socialists, who in the US stole the word liberal, due to the disdain for the word socialism in the US, the Marxists changed their name. Under any name it is quite impossible for the state to wither away when the proponents of Marxism favor every **** extension of government they can imagine. Power, once obtained, is seldom given up willfully. It irritates me as a libertarian, from the classical liberal tradition, to see the term libertarian associated with Marxism.

Life is unfair. Government simply adds another level of unfairness to the equation. Our founding fathers recognized this. They risked their very lives to free themselves from a government much less oppressive than the one we have today. They crafted a constitution that was meant to limit the power of the federal government. It was meant to keep the federal government from picking out the winners and losers. Government is needed; it is needed to channel individual self-interest (greed) to keep third parties from being harmed by the actions of two consenting parties. Even governments with limited power will abuse their powers.

Capitalism is what naturally exists in the absence of government. Socialism, beyond small groups of either related or like-minded individuals, requires the presence of government. Communes have a very low success rate....why is that?

What the history of the last century has shown is that capitalism and freedom are positively correlated and that states that have tried the Marxist route have universally failed. There will always be need for government; let us keep it limited.

A couple quotes:

Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a ****.

-- Karl Popper

To be ignorant of the past is to remain a child.

-- Karl Popper

We have seen what Marxist ideology has produced...a ****. I am no child.

 

[wez]

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drawn her depression?
That's a fine way to go through life; fearing the bully and never making a stand. By your rationale, you'd let the bully wail on you until he tires out or loses interest.

Give into your base human desires. Crack his skull. He deserves it.

What does this have to do with "patriotism"? Everything and nothing at all.

Sarcasm must escape you....

As well as who the bully may be.. a bully rarely sees him/herself as such.. I told ya, I'm a tough guy tenderizer..

 

[wez]

What does it have to do with Patriotism?

"Patriots"are patriotic to bullies all to often rather than patriotic to the truth.. much like yourself.

Odd thing about the nature of bullies.. they think the people standing up to them are the bullies and use it as justification to continue..

Another odd thing about bullies.. truth in words and a cracked ego is far more devastating to them than a cracked skull.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Socialist "libertarianism' is simply a new name the Marxists picked out due to the fact the ideas of Marx have been a bit tainted by the actions of those who have come to power through the appeal to Marxist ideology. Like the socialists, who in the US stole the word liberal, due to the disdain for the word socialism in the US

And now that "liberal" has a negative feel to it, the socialists are calling themselves, "Progressives".

 

[hugo]

And now that "liberal" has a negative feel to it, the socialists are calling themselves, "Progressives".

smells the same no matter what you call it.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

What does it have to do with Patriotism?

"Patriots"are patriotic to bullies all to often rather than patriotic to the truth.. much like yourself.

Odd thing about the nature of bullies.. they think the people standing up to them are the bullies and use it as justification to continue..

Another odd thing about bullies.. truth in words and a cracked ego is far more devastating to them than a cracked skull.

Gabriel's trumpet will produce you from the *** of a pig.

 

[wez]

Gabriel's trumpet will produce you from the *** of a pig.

Do you command this Gabriel fellow to please you as well, or else?

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Do you command this Gabriel fellow to please you as well, or else?

Wez, please. As we?ll be more often in each other?s company on this site, when given to utterance of that type ? consider drinking.

 

[wez]

Wez, please. As we’ll be more often in each other’s company on this site, when given to utterance of that type — consider drinking.

I should please you because, why?

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drown her depression?

Shall I utter more utterances of that type then play stupid?

hahahahaha

 

[jokersarewild]

SUPPORT THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF UPDATE
FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO YOUR FRIENDS

AND FAMILY, URGING THEM TO SUPPORT OUR

PRESIDENT AND THE TROOPS BY CLICKING HERE:

GrassFire.org - Real Impact Online.

3/31/03

Dear Charles,

We just received a message from a U.S. Marine that was so

compelling, we had to share it with you.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

I sat in a movie theatre watching "Schindler's List,"

and asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

I sat in a movie theatre watching "Pearl Harbor," and

asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the

actions of evil people.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered

because too many Americans naively rejected the reality that

some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others.

Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want

us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the

bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the

killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of

the perpetrators...

I will not be manipulated. I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the

press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS news anchor Dan Rather preceded

President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark,

"No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if

reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war,

they aren't likely--nor should they be expected--to show

deference."

I will not forget the attack on the USS Cole...

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory

strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations

like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?"

question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called, "anti-war demonstrators"

who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American

obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North

Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and

spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors

and marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists

who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair

who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral

inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could

have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they

would have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting

of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just

a choice; defeat it or be defeated. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:

hear the weeping.

feel the helplessness.

sense the panic.

experience the loss.

remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theatre, watching "Saving Private Ryan," and

asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

--Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)

+ + + + + + + + + + +

Charles, we hope these words spoke to your heart like

they did ours.

*** Bless America.

This is possibly the most misguided attempt at propaganda I've seen in my life.

Why didn't the Jews fight back? Are these people seriously comparing the "War in Iraq" to the Jewish Genocide of WW2? There's like, you know, nothing in common or anything. But yeah, they're totally like, the same thing.

And Pearl Harbor? I have to laugh. The audacity that you'd blame "civilized people" for not being prepared is utterly unfathomable. It's not like the PRESIDENT knew about it beforehand or anything, and just dismissed it...

And if this guy is so knowledgeable and less naive then the rest of us, why didn't he stop it? Fact is, we were due for an attack from somebody. Isolationism can't work forever.

The rest is just anti-liberal, anti-peace bull. It must be nice to generalize the world into a black-and-white view that allows for cultivation of such an assinine and pervasive ignorance.

 

[wez]

It must be nice to generalize the world into a black-and-white view that allows for cultivation of such an assinine and pervasive ignorance.

We're good, they're bad.

Americans naively rejected the reality thatsome nations are dedicated to the dominance of others.

Hahahahaha... hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I should please you because, why?
Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drown her depression?

Shall I utter more utterances of that type then play stupid?

hahahahaha

I'd just assume attempt to touch the sun than take on a *****'s thinking.

 

[wez]

I'd just assume attempt to touch the sun than take on a *****'s thinking.

I didn't ***** myself out to the federal government and have them strip me of my individuality, tell me what to think through anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy then hand me a gun and tell me who to kill, or else.

I'd of chose or else.. like I always do.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I didn't ***** myself out to the federal government and have them strip me of my individuality, tell me what to think through anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy then hand me a gun and tell me who to kill, or else.
I'd of chose or else.. like I always do.

Never opine short of certainty.

 

[wez]

Never opine short of certainty.

I'm quite certain... I am neither shocked, nor awed by anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy, only disgusted.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I'm quite certain... I am neither shocked, nor awed by anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy, only disgusted.

You are less majestically neutral than cloaking your cowardice in principle?

 

[wez]

You are less majestically neutral than cloaking your cowardice in principle?

I'm all about what is ok for me to do to another human being is ok for every other human being to do to me.

Only cowards and hypocrites need violence.