Pretty on the dot quote...

[Msixty]

WIN OR LOSE?
.... We have a very vocal minority who want to cripple the war effort in Iraq. I have come to the conclusion that it is only because they are invested in defeat.
.... First there are the "peace-at-any pricers" who hate the military, don't believe war accomplishes anything and will make sure there are no new examples to contradict them.
.... Then there are the PR Zombies like Sheehan, who don't even care about right or wrong but just see this as another opportunity to get in the media again.
.... And finally we have the Bush-haters. These people prefer Marxist thugs like Chavez and whacko dictators like Kim to our own President. These people are self-absorbed in their own little worlds and don't care if the rest of this country is dragged into the dirt, so long as they get their imagined "revenge" against a democratically-elected moral and honorable man. And if they have to snatch the terrorists of the world from the jaws of defeat they know this may be their last chance.

just thought i'd put that up.

 

[RegisteredAndEducated]

And we truely appreciate it M60!

That guy is right IMO.

 

[Crazywumbat]

.... We have a very vocal minority who want to cripple the war effort in Iraq. I have come to the conclusion that it is only because they are invested in defeat.
.... First there are the "peace-at-any pricers" who hate the military, don't believe war accomplishes anything and will make sure there are no new examples to contradict them.
.... Then there are the PR Zombies like Sheehan, who don't even care about right or wrong but just see this as another opportunity to get in the media again.
.... And finally we have the Bush-haters. These people prefer Marxist thugs like Chavez and whacko dictators like Kim to our own President. These people are self-absorbed in their own little worlds and don't care if the rest of this country is dragged into the dirt, so long as they get their imagined "revenge" against a democratically-elected moral and honorable man. And if they have to snatch the terrorists of the world from the jaws of defeat they know this may be their last chance.

Totally...because, you know..the parents who have children in the armed forces who don't want to see their kids die in an unnecessary war...and the veterans from certain past wars who recognize this one to be unnecessary..and just people in general who worry about the state of conditions this will leave for the future...yeah none of those people have valid opinions. In fact, unless you agree with every damn word that comes out of Bush's mouth, you don't have a valid opinion.

Honestly though, when more than half the country disagree with the way things are being handled, how the hell is that a "vocal minority"?

And Bush...a moral and honorable man? Puh-lease! Even most of the people who voted for him wouldn't say that, they only did cuz they didn't like the other guy.

So in conclusion, Give me a break..give me a break.. break me off a piece of that kitka-- suck me off.

 

[ToriAllen]

Totally...because, you know..the parents who have children in the armed forces who don't want to see their kids die in an unnecessary war...

Why does everyone keep acting like the military is made up of a bunch of kids? Unless someone lied about their age, not easy to do now days, I'm pretty sure there is not one child in the military.

I really hope you are not referring to the Sheehan. She didn’t give a **** about her son and had not had contact with him in years. She was in it for the attention.

 

[Crazywumbat]

Why does everyone keep acting like the military is made up of a bunch of kids? Unless someone lied about their age, not easy to do now days, I'm pretty sure there is not one child in the military.

I really hope you are not referring to the Sheehan. She didn

 

[smutt butt]

Because at 18 you're still a damn kid.

The "kids" should not have signed up if they didn't want to fight for america. Once you go through boot camp you are no longer a kid.

 

[Msixty]

soooooo i'm a kid who does not know anything?

and becouse my folks have a problem with me going to war somehow that makes MY feelings on how I should do things not valid?

it's not the parents feelings that matter, it's the people actually going out and using the gun, having the ability to understand what they want and act on it even against their parents opinion makes them adults in at least a small way.

 

[ToriAllen]

Because at 18 you're still a damn kid.

Then why the hell are we still letting you 'kids' vote.

Anyone know what the average age in the military is? I doubt it is 18.

 

[snafu]

Then why the hell are we still letting you 'kids' vote.

Anyone know what the average age in the military is? I doubt it is 18.

na na na nineteen.....

 

[ToriAllen]

na na na nineteen.....

Here is some stats:
http://www.militarycity.com/advertising/circulation.html

Age 18 - 25: 45%
Age 26 - 34: 30%
Age 35+ : 25%

 

[Crazywumbat]

soooooo i'm a kid who does not know anything?

and becouse my folks have a problem with me going to war somehow that makes MY feelings on how I should do things not valid?

it's not the parents feelings that matter, it's the people actually going out and using the gun, having the ability to understand what they want and act on it even against their parents opinion makes them adults in at least a small way.

Since when does being a kid equate to not knowing anything? I know plenty of kids who know more than most adults do.

And no, your parents being upset at your choice to join the army by no means makes your feelings invalid. But your desire to save the world doesn't make their concern invalid either. Which is what I was originally pointing out. And as far as your last comment goes, both the parents and the people getting shipped out have feelings that matter.

Anyways you get the idea, I just slapped those up there because they came to mind first. there are literally thousand more and not all are just high achievers in the money field. Funny thing about money is, you can get it any place, people will pay you to do what you normally would do for free, but for some reason most people cant get any money... hummm.

Age has it limits but I have found that most the limits have been implanted by parents, teachers and society. 18 is getting onto old. Stop limiting yourselves and others.

Well I agree being 18 does not necessarily make you a kid, but most 18 year olds are kids. I'd define a kid as someone lacking a decent supply of worldly experience. And judging from the guys I knew/know in highschool that went off to join the military, half of them hadn't even been outside of the state they lived in prior to that decision.

Also, having money doesn't suddenly validate you as an adult. Making a piece of plastic to hold a crayon, or designing a website for jewish kids doesn't quite seem to be the benchmark for adulthood in my eyes...luck is bound to happen to some people.

The "kids" should not have signed up if they didn't want to fight for america. Once you go through boot camp you are no longer a kid.

The kids should not have signed up if they didn't want to fight for America in a way that protected the freedom of those back home. I'll be you most men and women in the armed forces didn't sign up to be shipped off to a completely unnecesarry war.

Then why the hell are we still letting you 'kids' vote.

Anyone know what the average age in the military is? I doubt it is 18.

Then why the hell can't an adult order a beer?

You have kids Tori. At 18 do you honestly think they're going to stop being your kids?

 

[Crazywumbat]

N U K E ! The Reasonable Alternative.

Well, quick, somebody fetch us a rag. Thine cup just brimeth over with intellectual insight.

 

[Msixty]

your parents being upset at your choice to join the army

Marines, I'm not gonna get into my opinions on the average army recruit.

and what the **** is this "they didn't know/want to be shipped off to a war" bullshit, if I'm not mistaken the military is not a college fund, it's the ****ing military, you know what they do? they fight wars, so shut the **** up and deal with it. if i hear one more idiot go off about how they joined for the enlistment bonus or the GI bill, I'm gonna snap. god bless the USMC, to hell with enlistment bonus.

 

[Crazywumbat]

Marines, I'm not gonna get into my opinions on the average army recruit.

and what the **** is this "they didn't know/want to be shipped off to a war" bullshit, if I'm not mistaken the military is not a college fund, it's the ****ing military, you know what they do? they fight wars, so shut the **** up and deal with it. if i hear one more idiot go off about how they joined for the enlistment bonus or the GI bill, I'm gonna snap. god bless the USMC, to hell with enlistment bonus.

Marines then, I apologize.

And I made no mention of not wanting to be shipped off to war. I said I would bet most people in the armed forces would not want to be shipped off to an unnecessary war, or one that isn't being handled efficiently. If you're in a position where you're giving everything you have--your life-- would you not want it to be a situation where your death makes a positive difference? Wouldn't you want to be fighting a war that you agree with ideologically? Or even one that if you don't, at least the majority of the people you're fighting to protect do?

 

[ToriAllen]

Then why the hell can't an adult order a beer?

Depends on what state you are in.

You have kids Tori. At 18 do you honestly think they're going to stop being your kids?

Being a kid and being my kid are two different things. As Nazz said, age depends on the person. My husband lived on his own at 15, worked nights, and still finished high school. He joined the military at 17 and went active duty at 18. I would not have considered him a kid at 18.
As for my children, they will be my kids when they are 60, but that doesn't mean they are kids. I would be proud for any of my children to follow in their fathers footsteps by joining the military.

 

[Anna Perenna]

First there are the "peace-at-any pricers" who hate the military, don't believe war accomplishes anything and will make sure there are no new examples to contradict them.

Imagine wanting peace! They must be evil. And it goes without saying that they must hate the military.

Believe it or not, there are normal sane people in the world who believe that war should be the very last resort. These people don't hate the military. They just don't think killing people is the best way to resolve conflict.

.... And finally we have the Bush-haters. These people prefer Marxist thugs like Chavez and whacko dictators like Kim to our own President.

I despise Bush. And while I don't think Chavez is a Marxist thug (he's NOT) I don't agree with the way Kim Jong does things. Why is it that Republican pundits et al often try to spread the mentality of "you're either with us, or you're a terrorist and/or you support all the 'bad guys'"

It's so babyish to think like that. Grow up!

These people are self-absorbed in their own little worlds and don't care if the rest of this country is dragged into the dirt, so long as they get their imagined "revenge" against a democratically-elected moral and honorable man. And if they have to snatch the terrorists of the world from the jaws of defeat they know this may be their last chance.

I love it how "Doc" Crabtree doesn't even bother to back this bullshit up. He knows it's bullshit. But he also knows that most right wing supporters will be happy to go along with anything that makes Democrats/Liberals look bad.

As for people thinking that parents aren't allowed to be upset about their kids fighting in wars - how ridiculous.

Imagine that your son signed up for the military. He is basically signing his life away, and pledging blind allegiance to whatever choices the President makes.

I think it's reasonable for parents to expect that their President will at the very least err on the side of caution when taking their son's life into his own hands. In fact, they should expect him to have a very ****ing good reason for sending their son to war.

The fact that Saddam didn't like his Daddy is not a legitimate reason.

And what about all the innocent children in Iraq who have been killed? Don't they matter?

Why is smearing the Democrats/Liberals more important to Republicans than actually, say, saving lives?

 

[Msixty]

sigh i wish there was an emoticon that could truly convey my expression... I would describe it as disgust.... not for you alone, but for everyone who waists their given ability to make change.

You may say whatever you want, but when done in this way, it will not make a difference, you can do, think, say, wish, anything, and it will not make a difference unless you find a way to make it count. And if you find that way, please, let me know, because i have yet to find it.

And yet, you respond to a simple quote with such fervor, like your opinion on what some obscure cartoonist in the Army thinks matters.


Well, i guess i should let you return to your pathetic life of enforcing your opinion through typed wording on a screen.




I will leave you with a question though, why do you do this? Why do you not search for a way to make a difference instead of waisting what short priceless life you have on this earth playing politics and opinion to strangers?

Also. I would like you to know, I'm not mocking you, i am asking a serious question, and i would appreciate a serious answer.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Whether the war is justifiable or not, the truth is simple and clear; Men make their own bed and lie in it, children hide beneath the sheets. The military is no exception... it will seperate the fake tough from the crazy brave.

 

[Anna Perenna]

sigh i wish there was an emoticon that could truly convey my expression... I would describe it as disgust.... not for you alone, but for everyone who waists their given ability to make change.

You may say whatever you want, but when done in this way, it will not make a difference, you can do, think, say, wish, anything, and it will not make a difference unless you find a way to make it count. And if you find that way, please, let me know, because i have yet to find it.

And yet, you respond to a simple quote with such fervor, like your opinion on what some obscure cartoonist in the Army thinks matters.

Well, i guess i should let you return to your pathetic life of enforcing your opinion through typed wording on a screen.

I will leave you with a question though, why do you do this? Why do you not search for a way to make a difference instaid of waisting what short priceless life you have on this earth playing politics and opinion to strangers?

Also. I would like you to know, i'm not mocking you, i am asking a serious question, and i would appreciate a serious answer.

sigh I wish there was an emoticon that could truly convey my expression, but since there isnt, I'm going to have to go with the voice of Miss Bunny Swan:

Typical

I notice you didn't bother to actually refute any of the points I made. You just made a really vague point that deliberately distracts from the original point, and that has nothing to do with argument at hand.

How very Republican of you.

Need I point out that YOU posted the original comment? Surely you wanted people to share their opinions about it - this is a debate forum, after all.

So come on, argue your point. Tell me why you posted that piece of **** cut and paste quote.

 

[Anna Perenna]

sigh i wish there was an emoticon that could truly convey my expression... I would describe it as disgust.... not for you alone, but for everyone who waists their given ability to make change.

You may say whatever you want, but when done in this way, it will not make a difference, you can do, think, say, wish, anything, and it will not make a difference unless you find a way to make it count. And if you find that way, please, let me know, because i have yet to find it.

And yet, you respond to a simple quote with such fervor, like your opinion on what some obscure cartoonist in the Army thinks matters.

Well, i guess i should let you return to your pathetic life of enforcing your opinion through typed wording on a screen.

I will leave you with a question though, why do you do this? Why do you not search for a way to make a difference instaid of waisting what short priceless life you have on this earth playing politics and opinion to strangers?

Also. I would like you to know, i'm not mocking you, i am asking a serious question, and i would appreciate a serious answer.

sigh I wish there was an emoticon that could truly convey my expression, but since there isn't, I'm going to have to go with the voice of Miss Bunny Swan:

Typical

I notice you didn't bother to actually refute any of the points I made. You just changed the subject, making a really vague point that deliberately distracts from the original point, and that has nothing to do with argument at hand.

How very Republican Spin Doctor of you.

Need I point out that YOU posted the original comment - thereby being the one 'enforcing' your opinion on others?

And surely you wanted people to share their opinions about it - this is a debate forum, after all.

Nevermind the fact that you constantly share your opinion as if it matters.

Or that several people were debating this point before I joined the thread, but you never bothered to pose such a question to them.

And if you think I write with fervour that's probably because this thread really pisses me off. I can't believe that people still think like that. It drives me nuts.

So please, argue your point. Tell me why you posted that piece of **** cut and paste quote, then actually try and refute the points I brought up, and then maybe I'll consider answering your questions.