religion...a waste?

[Jhony5]

Christian scientists just love to use science against itself to create a paradox such as the ones Builder has shown. Unfortunately for them, these are not true paradoxes. Only feeble attempts at creating one.


Posted by Builder:

Does evil exist? Did God create evil?

Yes, evil does exist. It is a creation of man. Anything that can be shown to be present, is a creation of something. Whether it be physical or otherwise.

Here is what your scenario laid out.

"Professor does cold exist?"

"In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.

The idea here is that cold doesn't exist, only the absence of heat. This is wrong. Anything that can be created, and shown to be present, must exist. I can create cold. I can also create heat. Cold is indeed a sensation, but is also an elemental property that exist with varying degrees. Absolute zero (using your figure of -460 F) is an elemental degree that exist. It can be measured and shown to be present.

"Professor, does darkness exist?"

"Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light.

Darkness exist in the absence of light. Can one create darkness? Yes. By removing all the light present, I have created darkness. If I can create a state of darkness, then it exist.

"Sir, does evil exist?"

"Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.

Evil is a subjective term, unlike cold and dark. This term is subject to each individuals idea of what evil is. Evil is an action. An action requires energy to create it, to set it in motion. If you were for instance, to claim stabbing a kitten is evil, then one can create evil by way of stabbing the kitten. The person whom acted by way of evil in this instance, has created evil. He could have nurtured this animal and provided it with love and caring. Instead the person chose to create evil, by way of action.


ENTER RELIGIOUS RHETORIC

Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold; words that man has created to describe the absence of light and heat. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

I can create cold, as I have shown.
I can create darkness, as I have shown.
I can create evil, as I have shown.

I can create god, as well. God is the creation of man. If man created god, then he exist right? NO! God is an idea. An idea does not actually exist until it is realized or proven. A Christian cannot show proof of god creating man. I can, however, show proof of man creating god. In Christianity I can show this by way of historical document. The writings of the apostles and various other documents. God is an idea. An idea created by man. There are many reasons one could cite for this. In the beginning it was, as I stated earlier in this thread, a ready explanation for the unexplainable. For instance.............

What happens when we die?
Where did the first man come from?
How did the earth come to be?

These are all examples of instances that cannot be answered to this day by means of scientific fact. God provides the ready explanation.

The base idea expressed in your scenario were examples of certain states that supposedly do not exist, they are only explained to be (in this scenario) by way of the absence of their opposite. Cold-Hot. Dark-Light. Good-Evil. If we consider this to be logic, then how far can we take this?


Cold is created by the absence of heat.
Darkness is created by the absence of light.
Evil is created through action.

God is an idea. Ideas do not exist.

 

[kokorosenshi]

yeah, well your mom certainly didn't reject me...

neither did your mom when i bang her so bad she couldn't move her wide spreaded legs

keep talking and you'll get whats coming to ya

 

[kokorosenshi]

before i continue reading, jhony, dont confuse my mom for your sister, and btw, tell that bitch to give me my 5 bucks back for the condoms she used on...you.

eddo...eddo, eddo, eddo, what can i say about you, not much, btw, tell your girlfriend to get off me, that bitch chased me on my car, i had to back up to get rid of her

 

[ClassyMissFancy]

I think the very first post of this thread proves religion's usefulness.

There will always be dumb ****s out there who don't care that their actions hurt other animals or even people...

But if you tell them their sky-buddy is gonna kick their asses... they will calm the **** down and go repent.

 

[g73m]

The whole religion thing is stupid. People should be able to think for themselves.

i do believe in morals though, which can be link to religion, like.. don't steal & thou shalt not steal.

 

[eddo]

neither did your mom when i bang her so bad she couldn't move her wide spreaded legs

keep talking and you'll get whats coming to ya

That wasn't far from the "I know you are but what am I?" comback, and was pretty darn pathetic.

eddo...eddo, eddo, eddo, what can i say about you, not much, btw, tell your girlfriend to get off me, that bitch chased me on my car, i had to back up to get rid of her

and that one just didn't even make any sense...

The whole religion thing is stupid. People should be able to think for themselves.

I am a Christian and I have no problem thinking for myself.

 

[eddo]

Rocks. Sedimentary minerals that have undergone compression over time. We know this amount of time must be great to turn magnetite and sand into a hardened rock. We can show this to be true on scale. Its not theory that it takes tens of thousands of years to create a diamond from the compression of minerals. It is fact.

I cannot disagree that compression turns smaller minerals into rocks. But i can disagree how the "thousand year old" rocks got there. Like I said before: I believe that when God created the earth, he built age into it (or even that the "age" markers were created during formation of the planet.) Thus he created the rocks, the diamonds, and all else that we see that we think are millions and milions of years old.
Fact is- if you don't start off with a piece of coal and wait tens of thousads of years and watch that very piece of coal become a diamond, you really can't be exactly sure where that particualr diamond came from.

I mentioned that as an example of early cultures misunderstanding what they saw in their physical realm, then attempting to translate it into lore. Much the same as we see early Christians did. After all, god is always a ready explanation for unexplainable.

Ok, I got what you are saying. I disagree, but I understand.

Again I think its the power behind Christianity that makes it seem righteous.
...
What determined religious superiority wasn't the enduring of scrutiny. It was the quelling of resistance to said religion in its burgeoning years, that led to its endurance over time.

again, I disagree. I understand that there have been times where it was "Be the faith of the country or die!" (and that has been in place for more than just Christianity over the centuries.)
My point is that there have been more people trying to discredit Christianity than there has been any other faith. More scientists, researchers, scholars trying to prove Jesus didn't exist, or it happened differently than what the Bible states, and none of them have come up with anything concrete.
Not many faiths can make the claim that so many have tried to tear it apart to only go home empty handed.

I think what lends so many followers to Christianity is the way the religion has conformed to modernization. As people became more civilized, they would seek a more civilized religion.

This reply actually surprised me. I duno if I have ever heard of Christianity called a "civilized religion" from someone who doesn't follow it. Christians are well known for being "behind the times" in relation to beliefs, moral code, and political issues.
Cool.

 

[Ctrl]

This whole thing has gotten really stupid. There are so many misconceptions, ignorant conclusions, confusions, and baseless opinions it has become useless to address any of it save to say that the whole thing has gotten really stupid.

This thread is a waste. That is the only conclusion.

 

[eddo]

This whole thing has gotten really stupid. There are so many misconceptions, ignorant conclusions, confusions, and baseless opinions it has become useless to address any of it save to say that the whole thing has gotten really stupid.

This thread is a waste. That is the only conclusion.

That was your only reply to this?

Thanks for your input, sparkie...

 

[Ctrl]

That was your only reply to this?

Thanks for your input, sparkie...

And that was YOUR reply to this?

Thanks for the waste of heartbeats sport. Fine. I will begin with you.

I believe that when God created the earth, he built age into it

Well isn't that a convenient and utterly stupid thing to do. Why the **** would He "build age" into the earth? For what possible purpose? Let me guess, divine wisdom that you need not understand. That is completely useless conjecture that has nothing to do with religion. It is your shameless rationalization in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary of your belief system. Quote me where in the bible it says God built age into the earth.

You can't just take anything that proves you wrong and say "God did it".

Fact is- if you don't start off with a piece of coal and wait tens of thousads of years and watch that very piece of coal become a diamond, you really can't be exactly sure where that particualr diamond came from.

No, but you can observe the changes to compounds by applying external controlled pressure and apply the principals to different compounds of the same molecular structure... or does God do that too right in front of you? For what purpose? To tempt you away from Him? Or is it the devil? WIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH...

After all, god is always a ready explanation for unexplainable.

I disagree, but I understand.

You confused little lemming. That is PRECISELY what you are doing.

Not many faiths can make the claim that so many have tried to tear it apart to only go home empty handed.

Hear a whole lot about the holy shroud of Turin lately? Here is the problem... the FIRST problem with your rationale, which is different than logic...
You cannot prove a negative. You can use facts to discount claims... you know... unless you change the rules of the known universe to "fix" the gaping ****ing holes in your philosophy... I mean... if I prove that the earth is more than 10,000 years old, you jump up with "God built age into the earth." There is no CONVINCING YOU, that does not mean that nothing can be discredited.

Better?

 

[eddo]

Well isn't that a convenient and utterly stupid thing to do. Why the **** would He "build age" into the earth? For what possible purpose?

For immediate habitation. God made the earth, then put animals and people on it right away. What good would be starting a planet if you had to wait to put anything on it?

No, but you can observe the changes to compounds by applying external controlled pressure and apply the principals to different compounds of the same molecular structure... or does God do that too right in front of you? For what purpose? To tempt you away from Him? Or is it the devil? WIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH...

Thanks for adding to the conversation...

You confused little lemming. That is PRECISELY what you are doing.

Hear a whole lot about the holy shroud of Turin lately? Here is the problem... the FIRST problem with your rationale, which is different than logic...
You cannot prove a negative. You can use facts to discount claims... you know... unless you change the rules of the known universe to "fix" the gaping ****ing holes in your philosophy... I mean... if I prove that the earth is more than 10,000 years old, you jump up with "God built age into the earth." There is no CONVINCING YOU, that does not mean that nothing can be discredited.

Better?

wow dude, I hear Midol works wonders....

 

[phreakwars]

wow dude, I hear Midol works wonders....

eddo recommends Midol to everyone. It's what works best for his bitch ass.
.
.

 

[eddo]

eddo recommends Midol to everyone. It's what works best for his bitch ass.
.
.

I sais I HEAR it works wonders, DAMMIT!!!

 

[phreakwars]

sure.. sure...
.
.

 

[Jhony5]

I duno if I have ever heard of Christianity called a "civilized religion" from someone who doesn't follow it. Christians are well known for being "behind the times" in relation to beliefs, moral code, and political issues.

I'm not a Christian but I can be non-biased and rational enough too understand that Christianity in-particular, has done well to change with the times. Look at how Catholicism has perpetuated the AIDS epidemic with its fervent stance against condoms. Or it's inability too acknowledge human sexuality which has caused many a buggering of young boys. Christianity understands that the key to survival is adaptation.

Fact is- if you don't start off with a piece of coal and wait tens of thousands of years and watch that very piece of coal become a diamond, you really can't be exactly sure where that particular diamond came from.

To prove this one does not need to wait tens of thousands of years. Much the same we don't have to actually travel to Venus to know its exact distance. Boil it down and its a matter of mathematics. We know that to create a diamond from coal it requires X amount of compression. We also know that the earth cannot provide X amount of compression unless it applies this pressure over Y amount of years.

I believe that when God created the earth, he built age into it (or even that the "age" markers were created during formation of the planet.) Thus he created the rocks, the diamonds, and all else that we see that we think are millions and millions of years old.

Why the hurry though? Why the trickery? Was it just an oddity in Gods plan? It would seem to me that the best interest of the X-tian faith would be too concur with known fact. Ahhh, but they can't, as it was written from the word of God so long ago by the ignorant men whom desired to describe all that is, was and ever will be. Every culture did this. Long ago they had 'wise men' whom preached the truth to the others and offered them a reason for their existence.

My point being, why would God tell man the age of the earth? What would the point of that be? Just throwing it out there I suppose.

So we have two sides. One says "No way. We have sedimentary layering and a litany of other scientific fact too support the fact that the earth is millions of years old, not a few thousand".

Its what the other side has to say that sheds light on their own blind following. Quite simply the explanation is MAGIC. Yes its true. Call it what you want. A miracle of God, a magic trick, whatever. You cannot argue the age of the earth with a Christian. All they have to do is claim 'Magic did it' and your argument fails. They say "When god said he built the earth in days, he really did it in millions of years because God hadn't created time yet. So what he called days, was really millions of years". I say WTF? This is a failure of logic. Time is a constant, not subject to a change of parameters. God told the apostles of the purported time span of the creation of the Earth long after he created time. So why still refer to it as days, and not the factual report of millions of years?
The answer is convoluted by X-tian rhetoric. In reality men created God. With this they created his divine word, not subject too alteration with the revealing of fact. Fact is the apostles had no ****in idea that one day man would learn facts that countered the bibles claims. They didn't know their secret would dissolve by something as rudimentary as a dinosaur bone.

 

[ClassyMissFancy]

In biblical debate, anyone who asserts they believe the God of the Christian Bible created the earth as is stated in Genesis must not attempt to justify those beliefs with things that are not stated in the Bible.

Why?

Revelation 22, Verse 18: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

To say "I believe God made the earth appear to be millions of years old" is adding to the bible in order to be able to believe what the Bible says.

Faith requires that you read it and, regardless of how ridiculous it appears, you accept it as 100% accurate so that it is KNOWLEDGE to you in the same way your gender is knowledge... and you do so without having to believe it could possibly have happened... because when you KNOW something did happen, you have no need to invent scenarios under which it may have been possible.

If you can not accept the things the Bible says simply because the Bible says them, without attempting to interject scenarios under which these things seem possible to you, then you have no faith.

If you can not defend the words of the Bible with the words of the Bible.. you should not attempt to defend them at all. Anything else violates Revelation 22:18.

 

[hugo]

Of course, Revelation 22, Verse 18 was written before the Bible was compiled. Therefore the book being referred to in Rev 22:18 was not the Bible. It seems the author of Revelation is simply referring to not adding to the prophecies in the Book of Revelation.

 

[snafu]

Religion is a double edged sword.
It has killed more people than any other reason. (Big negative!)
But on the other hand it has brought sanctity and relief. It answers questions that can never be answered any other way. It puts time and space in perspective for the mortal man (alpha, omega) . It gives us morals to abide by.

 

[Jhony5]

It answers questions that can never be answered any other way.

Like what?

You can't qualify most biblical "answers" as answers at all. For example.

My question: How did the first woman come too be?
Biblical answer:God made her from the rib of Adam.

Thats not a ****ing answer. Thats a god dammed silly ancient fairy tale.

Religion isn't all bad. Many people are utterly lost without a leader or some divine meaning to life.
Everybody wants too live forever. Religion gives this to us. Eternal soul insurance.

 

[Phantom]

You can't qualify most biblical "answers" as answers at all. For example.

My question: How did the first woman come too be?
Biblical answer:God made her from the rib of Adam.

Thats not a ****ing answer. Thats a god dammed silly ancient fairy tale.

Religion isn't all bad. Many people are utterly lost without a leader or some divine meaning to life.
Everybody wants too live forever. Religion gives this to us. Eternal soul insurance.

DISCLAIMER: I am using a Hebrew-English lexicon, The Jewish Talmud, and Christian Theology as my source for the following answer. (I love being a smartass).

Many have interpreted the "rib" story not as being a literal narration of events but as a spiritual metaphor. God didn't need physical matter to create life. Some feel He spiritually divided the man to make the woman- his spiritual counterpart. Again, with the hunter vs. gatherer and protector vs. nurturer mumbo jumbo. As in, a man and a woman make a whole. Being that he took it from the rib (the man's side) showed original equality of the sexes until the fall of man. Not saying it is dogma- just another way to see things.