SIMPLE EVIDENCE OF NO GODS

[John Baker]

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:13:46 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
<HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1hwluzq.nj2ssg13dgxkxN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
>> H. Wm. Esque <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I saw this in alt religion.
>> > Where is the simple evidence of no God?
>> > I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>>
>> Translation: "I see nothing because I stand on the shoulders of
>> intellectual midgets..."
>>
>If you are such of a Giant, where is your evidence. I make
>_no_ claim. But whoever or whatever entitled the original
>post, is claiming to possess evidence of no Gods.
>If he/she or it cannot present this evidence the only
>conclusion is he/she or it is lying.

<sigh> Do you really not get it, H. Willie, or are you just
pretending to be stupid?

Once more, with feeling: there is no such thing as evidence that
something doesn't exist

There is either evidence for existence or there is not. If there
is evidence (and I mean real evidence, H. Willie, not the bullshit
you God-botherers peddle), then we know the thing exists, or at least
can assume it probably does, depending on the amount of evidence
available. If there is no real, testable objective evidence that the
thing in question exists, then the logical assumption (and the default
position) is to assume that it does not.

Got that, H. Willie?


>

 

[Scott Richter]

rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

> Explain your choice to God, not to me. I am not here to judge choices.

That's all you've been doing since you arrived...

 

[Scott Richter]

rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

> > > Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
> > > scripture would be true.
> >
> > Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the
> > second...
> >
> > > Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God?
> >
> > It most certainly is. Don't you know that?
>
> Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns
> to judge the earth?

Sure, Skippy, right after I explain it to Santa Claus and the Tooth
Fairy...

 

[Jeckyl]

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1176654260.566363.64320@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 15, 5:34?am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Again. . you have nothing worthwhile to offer .. your equations have been
>> soundly shown to be self-contradictory and they simply do not correspond
>> with reality.
>>
>> If you have something worthwhile to contribute, please do so. Maybe
>> express
>> some opinions on God if you like. But keep your nonsense 'physics' out of
>> it .. and your continual lies .. unless you enjoy being shown to be a
>> fool
>> every time you post it, as your have for a decade already.

> So why does it make you

[snip more lies]

I've already explained several times, in simple enough language for an
uneducated welder to understand, that there is NO shrinkage or crushing of
railway tracks or trains, they maintain their proper length. You're just
too STUPID to understand that simple fact ,, or you're a LIAR.. I think both
given your current 'track' record.

Again. . you have nothing to offer. Come back when you do .. it will be a
long wait.

Now, go away little third-grader.

 

[Jeckyl]

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1176654707.688148.295030@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Go back to the dark ages where you belong.- Hide quoted text -
>
> But, hey,

[snip more lies]

> You put a lot of time and effort into them.

Yes .. many years of study. You should try learning and understanding ..
instead of preaching lies .. anyone would think you were a christian
minister

You have shown that once again you have nothing worthwhile ot say .. and
continue to say it. Go away and come back when you've put a bit of effort
into some genuine and correct physics, or if you have some opinions on
topics you have some knowledge about, like welding.

I won't hold my breath for that miracle though.

 

[John Baker]

On 15 Apr 2007 00:07:41 -0700, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>> >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>>
>> >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
>> >give them...
>>
>> >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
>> >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>>
>> >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
>> >Jesus coming back!
>>
>> >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
>> >who keep their word.
>>
>> >> You're talking about fictional characters again?
>>
>> >I saw this in alt religion.
>> >Where is the simple evidence of no God?
>> >I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>>
>> The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
>> logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
>> There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
>> works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
>> critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
>> evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>>
>> So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
>> not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
>> whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
>> the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
>> isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>>
>> Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
>> calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
>> theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
>> but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
>> interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
>> purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>>
>> I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
>> don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
>> about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
>> that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
>> our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
>> and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
>> evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>>
>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers.

I can't make your belief disintegrate, but I didn't expect to. Nor
do I want to. As long as you keep your beliefs to yourself, they do me
no harm.

>You seem
>to have no power over his existence whatsoever.

Nor do you, Robert. All the belief in the world won't make him real.

>God is like the Bible
>in one way. No matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
>to exist and says what it was written to say. No matter what atheists
>say about God, He continues to exist. Well, time for Bible study. If
>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of
>relativity, let me know.

And I'm sure, intellectual giant that you are, your understanding of
relativity is every bit as firm as your grasp of the nature of
evidence. <G>


>Robert B. Winn

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 1:18�pm, "Mike" <mat...@hofstra.edu> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 8:17 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Billions of mathematicians and scientists and other people all over
> > the world have studied abortion and found nothing wrong with it.
>
> Silly comparison.

 

[Jeckyl]

"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:39a52357kldfqop5p3mujs4pp6fj7k3k2d@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:13:46 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
> <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Once more, with feeling: there is no such thing as evidence that
> something doesn't exist

Well .. that's not _completely_ true.

If the definition of something is explicit enough that it is possible to
have a finite, exhaustible set of observations. Eg. I can easily disproof
the existence of "The giant yellow frog that lives in my left shoe" by
looking in my left shoe and observing it is not there .. as by definition
that is the only place it can exist, I can proof it does not.

Another way is, for example, how we can show there is evidence that "the
pink bunny of death that completely destroyed our universe" does not exists
... because the universe is still here.

That is you can prove something does not exist if there are things one can
observe that are only observable if the something does not exist. Ie if you
have P=>Q, and you have ! Q, then you know ! P.

Although one cannot proof there is no gods at all (especially as 'god' is
not a well defined term), it is feasible to disprove a particular God (eg
the Christian God) if one knows enough about it. When such evidence is
presented, the only way then for a Christian to avoid that being a proof of
the non-existence of the Christian God is the "true Scotsman" logical
fallacy of redefining God. The problem with that is that you can end up
redefining God to be an ineffectual nothing .. and not the God that
Christians claim to worship.

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 3:12�pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
> > > rbwinn wrote:
> > > > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
> > > > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > >> rbwinn wrote:
> > > > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
> > > > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
> > > > > >give them...
>
> > > > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
> > > > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>
> > > > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
> > > > > >Jesus coming back!
>
> > > > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
> > > > > >who keep their word.
>
> > > > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again?
>
> > > > > >I saw this in alt religion.
> > > > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God?
> > > > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>
> > > > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
> > > > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
> > > > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
> > > > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
> > > > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
> > > > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
> > > > > evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>
> > > > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
> > > > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
> > > > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
> > > > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
> > > > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>
> > > > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
> > > > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
> > > > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
> > > > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
> > > > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
> > > > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>
> > > > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
> > > > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
> > > > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
> > > > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
> > > > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
> > > > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
> > > > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>
> > > > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
> > > > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?You seem
> > > > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?God is like the Bible
> > > > in one way. ?No matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
> > > > to exist and says what it was written to say. ?No matter what atheists
> > > > say about God, He continues to exist. ?Well, time for Bible study. ?If
> > > > you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of
> > > > relativity, let me know.
>
> > > So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true?
> > > You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as scripture would be true.
>
> Well, golly, you didn't bother to even read my question, did you?

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 3:29�pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
> H. Wm. Esque wrote:
> > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1176640427.794998.147610@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > H. Wm. Esque wrote:
> > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > rbwinn wrote:
> > > > > > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
> > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose
> > to
> > > > give them...
>
> > > > > > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus
> > Christ
> > > > > > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>
> > > > > > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap
> > about
> > > > Jesus coming back!
>
> > > > > > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are
> > people
> > > > who keep their word.
>
> > > > > You're talking about fictional characters again?
>
> > > > I saw this in alt religion.
>
> > > So?

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 3:30?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 5:33?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
> > > H. Wm. Esque wrote:
> > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > rbwinn wrote:
> > > > > > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
> > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
> > > > give them...
>
> > > > > > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
> > > > > > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>
> > > > > > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
> > > > Jesus coming back!
>
> > > > > > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
> > > > who keep their word.
>
> > > > > You're talking about fictional characters again?
>
> > > > I saw this in alt religion.
>
> > > So? ?Does that make your fictional character real?
>
> > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God?
>
> > > How do you propose the nonexistence of deities be proven? ?The xian
> > > bible makes claims about the xian deities that can be proven false;
> > > e.g., Jesus says one can have anything one wants by asking for it in
> > > Jesus' name, but that claim has been repeatedly proven false. ?Of
> > > course, you're welcome to claim that Jesus lied or the bible is wrong,
> > > but that doesn't really support your assertion of the existence of
> > > deities, does it? ?How many deities should anyone be expected to prove
> > > nonexistent before disbelieving in them? ?There is NO OBJECTIVE,
> > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF ANY DEITIES. ?ANYWHERE. ?EVER. ?In light of
> > > that inconvenient fact, it isn't reasonable, nor is it my
> > > responsibility, to prove your particular deity exists; it is yours to
> > > prove it does, otherwise there's no legitimate reason for anyone to
> > > accept the assertion.
>
> > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>
> > > I have yet to see proof of the claim that you don't owe me a million
> > > dollars, so I'm expecting a check.
>
> > > What's even more unfortunate is nobody anywhere has ever seen any
> > > objective, verifiable evidence for ANY deity, let alone yours.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Well, the religion I belong to has evidence that would stand up in
> > court.
>
> Then why, in 2000+ years, has nobody presented it?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It is done every day. Presenting it to an atheist is no more
productive than attempting to explain to an atheist that if bolts of
lightning strike both ends of a train at the time an observer at the
middle of the train is opposite an observer on the ground, marks left
on the railroad track by the lightning will be the length of the train
apart.
Robert B. Winn

 

[Paul Duca]

in article pcsa135npnb0f5vj0g5ubg01su0rupmpv7@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 4/5/07 6:01 PM:

> On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 14:59:00 -0400, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> If a god existed that was mean and intolerant it would simply kill the
>> atheists and send them to his Hell.
>
> And we know that everyone in hell is a volunteer.



But how many in Heaven want to go over the wall?


Paul

 

[DanielSan]

rbwinn wrote:
> On Apr 15, 9:30�am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism
>>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>rbwinn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
>>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>give them...
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jesus coming back!
>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>who keep their word.
>>
>>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again?
>>
>>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion.
>>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God?
>>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>>
>>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
>>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
>>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
>>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
>>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
>>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
>>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>>
>>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
>>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
>>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
>>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
>>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>>
>>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
>>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
>>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
>>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
>>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
>>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>>
>>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
>>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
>>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
>>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
>>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
>>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
>>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>>
>>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
>>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. �ou seem
>>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. �od is like the Bible
>>>>>in one way. �o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
>>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. �o matter what atheists
>>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. �ell, time for Bible study. � � � � f
>>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of
>>>>>relativity, let me know.
>>
>>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true?
>>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
>>>scripture would be true.
>>
>>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have
>>no evidence to support that contention.
>
>
> Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. Jesus
> Christ said that they were prophets.

And why should we believe Jesus?

> Explain your choice to God, not to me. I am not here to judge
> choices.

I feel no need to explain myself to God. If God is genuinely
all-knowing, then he already knows why I made the "choice" I made.


--

DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226
----------------------------------------------------
"In every country and every age, the priest had
been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[DanielSan]

rbwinn wrote:
> On Apr 15, 9:55?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>
>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
>>>scripture would be true.
>>
>>Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the
>>second...
>>
>>
>>>Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God?
>>
>>It most certainly is. Don't you know that?
>
>
> Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns
> to judge the earth?

And when do you plan on that happening?

--

DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226
----------------------------------------------------
"In every country and every age, the priest had
been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[Free Lunch]

On 15 Apr 2007 15:53:31 -0700, in alt.atheism
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
<1176677611.873022.191350@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
>On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism
>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> <1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
>> >> rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
>> >> > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
>> >> > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > > >> rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>> >> > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>> >> > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>>
>> >> > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
>> >> > > >give them...
>>
>> >> > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
>> >> > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>>
>> >> > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
>> >> > > >Jesus coming back!
>>
>> >> > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
>> >> > > >who keep their word.
>>
>> >> > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again?
>>
>> >> > > >I saw this in alt religion.
>> >> > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God?
>> >> > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>>
>> >> > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
>> >> > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
>> >> > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
>> >> > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
>> >> > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
>> >> > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
>> >> > > evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>>
>> >> > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
>> >> > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
>> >> > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
>> >> > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
>> >> > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>>
>> >> > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
>> >> > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
>> >> > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
>> >> > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
>> >> > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
>> >> > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>>
>> >> > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
>> >> > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
>> >> > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
>> >> > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
>> >> > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
>> >> > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
>> >> > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>>
>> >> > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
>> >> > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. /u seem
>> >> > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. /d is like the Bible
>> >> > in one way. / matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
>> >> > to exist and says what it was written to say. / matter what atheists
>> >> > say about God, He continues to exist. %ll, time for Bible study. f
>> >> > you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of
>> >> > relativity, let me know.
>>
>> >> So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true?
>> >> You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
>> >scripture would be true.
>>
>> How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have
>> no evidence to support that contention.
>
>Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. Jesus
>Christ said that they were prophets.

I've read it. Just because the Bible claims that Jesus said something,
there is no evidence that the Bible is accurate or that Jesus was in any
way reliable.

>> >Do you think it is an intelligent position
>> >to deny the existence of God?
>>
>> As long as there remains no evidence to support the claim that God
>> exists, the only valid choice is to deny the existence of God.
>>
>Explain your choice to God, not to me. I am not here to judge
>choices.

You love to judge.

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 5:51�pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
> >>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism
> >>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> >><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>rbwinn wrote:
>
> >>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
> >>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
>
> >>>>>>>give them...
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
> >>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
>
> >>>>>>>Jesus coming back!
>
> >>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
>
> >>>>>>>who keep their word.
>
> >>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again?
>
> >>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion.
> >>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God?
> >>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>
> >>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
> >>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
> >>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
> >>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
> >>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
> >>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
> >>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>
> >>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
> >>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
> >>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
> >>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
> >>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>
> >>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
> >>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
> >>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
> >>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
> >>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
> >>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>
> >>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
> >>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
> >>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
> >>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
> >>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
> >>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
> >>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>
> >>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
> >>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem
> >>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible
> >>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
> >>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists
> >>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study. ? ? ? ? f
> >>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of
> >>>>>relativity, let me know.
>
> >>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true?
> >>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
> >>>scripture would be true.
>
> >>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have
> >>no evidence to support that contention.
>
> > Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible.

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 5:52?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 9:55?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>
> >>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
> >>>scripture would be true.
>
> >>Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the
> >>second...
>
> >>>Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God?
>
> >>It most certainly is. Don't you know that?
>
> > Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns
> > to judge the earth?
>
> And when do you plan on that happening?
>
> --
What do you mean when do I plan on it happening? The scriptures say
the day and the hour no man knoweth, not the angels in heaven, not the
Son of God, but the Father only.
Robert B. Winn

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 6:32�pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2007 15:53:31 -0700, in alt.atheism
> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> <1176677611.873022.191...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >> On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism
> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> >> <1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> rbwinn wrote:
> >> >> > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
> >> >> > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
> >> >> > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > > >> rbwinn wrote:
> >> >> > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
> >> >> > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>
> >> >> > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
> >> >> > > >give them...
>
> >> >> > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
> >> >> > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>
> >> >> > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
> >> >> > > >Jesus coming back!
>
> >> >> > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
> >> >> > > >who keep their word.
>
> >> >> > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again?
>
> >> >> > > >I saw this in alt religion.
> >> >> > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God?
> >> >> > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>
> >> >> > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
> >> >> > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
> >> >> > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
> >> >> > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
> >> >> > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
> >> >> > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
> >> >> > > evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>
> >> >> > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
> >> >> > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
> >> >> > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
> >> >> > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
> >> >> > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>
> >> >> > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
> >> >> > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
> >> >> > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
> >> >> > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
> >> >> > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
> >> >> > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>
> >> >> > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
> >> >> > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
> >> >> > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
> >> >> > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
> >> >> > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
> >> >> > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
> >> >> > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>
> >> >> > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
> >> >> > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. /u seem
> >> >> > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. /d is like the Bible
> >> >> > in one way. / matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
> >> >> > to exist and says what it was written to say. / matter what atheists
> >> >> > say about God, He continues to exist. %ll, time for Bible study.

 

[H. Wm. Esque]

"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1176674527.481727.23040@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> H. Wm. Esque wrote:
> > "Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1hwluzq.nj2ssg13dgxkxN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
> > > H. Wm. Esque <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I saw this in alt religion.
> > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God?
> > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
> > >
> > > Translation: "I see nothing because I stand on the shoulders of
> > > intellectual midgets..."
> > >
> > If you are such of a Giant, where is your evidence. I make
> > _no_ claim. But whoever or whatever entitled the original
> > post, is claiming to possess evidence of no Gods.
> > If he/she or it cannot present this evidence the only
> > conclusion is he/she or it is lying.
>
> Nice try. You're making an implicit claim; that evidence is required
> to prove the nonexistence of deities. That's called "shifting the
> burden of proof."
>
No, this is false. Whoever is claiming to have _evidence_
is making the only claim here. Refusing to present this
evidence is shirking responsibility.

The way things work in the real world is that one
> looks around, notes the TOTAL LACK of evidence for deities, and
> concludes there's no legitimate reason to accept any theists
> unsupported assertion that they exist.
>
> And in fact, the original poster pointed out that the lack of evidence
> of a loving god is evidence that that specific god doesn't exist,
> since if it did exist as described and truly wanted everybody to go to
> heaven, it would provide the evidence each individual requires. That
> such evidence is not provided proves that the specific deity described
> doesn't exist.
>
A specific god? He has attempted to define God and then by holding
up his own idea, can demolish the god of his creation then claim
to have _evidence_ that god doesn't exist. This of course is a
strawman-god . This as I have observed is rather typical.

 

[rbwinn]

On Apr 15, 8:36�pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 5:51?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>
> >>rbwinn wrote:
>
> >>>On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
> >>>>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism
> >>>>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
> >>>><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >>>>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>rbwinn wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque"
> >>>>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to
>
> >>>>>>>>>give them...
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about
>
> >>>>>>>>>Jesus coming back!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people
>
> >>>>>>>>>who keep their word.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again?
>
> >>>>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion.
> >>>>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God?
> >>>>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim.
>
> >>>>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a
> >>>>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist.
> >>>>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it
> >>>>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something
> >>>>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists'
> >>>>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of
> >>>>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist.
>
> >>>>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or
> >>>>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on
> >>>>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite
> >>>>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply
> >>>>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence.
>
> >>>>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on
> >>>>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other
> >>>>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case,
> >>>>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective
> >>>>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in
> >>>>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more.
>
> >>>>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly
> >>>>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life,
> >>>>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny",
> >>>>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste
> >>>>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations
> >>>>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as
> >>>>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is.
>
> >>>>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact
> >>>>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem
> >>>>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible
> >>>>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues
> >>>>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists
> >>>>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study. ? ? ? ? f
> >>>>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of
> >>>>>>>relativity, let me know.
>
> >>>>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true?
> >>>>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as
> >>>>>scripture would be true.
>
> >>>>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have
> >>>>no evidence to support that contention.
>
> >>>Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. ?Jesus
> >>>Christ said that they were prophets.
>
> >>And why should we believe Jesus?
>
> >>>Explain your choice to God, not to me. ?I am not here to judge
> >>>choices.
>
> >>I feel no need to explain myself to God. ?If God is genuinely
> >>all-knowing, then he already knows why I made the "choice" I made.
>
> > Well, how is it that you claim I enter into this some way?