There Is No Hell

"nick cobb" <nickk@cris.com> wrote in message
news:xWA2j.2285$C24.1857@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> Understand what "Hell" is. It is NOT a physical place. When a person
> dies, their spiritual self is separated from their material body. Think
> of the spiritual self as pure intellect. I am sure that you have had bad
> dreams. This was a pure intellectual experience. Now, think of the most
> horrible dreams, very real, experienced all the time. This is what hell
> will be like. It will be a "Hellish-Intellectual" experience. This is
> why we can experience a sense of Hell in this world - pure, mental
anguish.

The spirit and the flesh are two different things, true.
They cannot exist separately. In other words when our body (flesh) dies our
spirit dies (temporarily).
Even science knows that nothing (nothing) can be destroyed, only altered in
form.
Anything that can happen once is the evidence that it can happen!
And when you have forever, anything that can happen, will eventually happen
again.
As in flipping a coin and having it land on edge ten times in a row.
Sure, the odds are astronomical but forever is never (never) ending so
astronomical odds are meaningless to eternity.
Remember, there will be a new earth made, a perfect earth.
And who can say that there aren't infinite universes out there somewhere?
Remember the Gospel, very very good news.

>
>
>
 
"Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:13klua99d4uql82@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "nick cobb" <nickk@cris.com> wrote in message
> news:xWA2j.2285$C24.1857@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>> Understand what "Hell" is. It is NOT a physical place. When a person
>> dies, their spiritual self is separated from their material body. Think
>> of the spiritual self as pure intellect. I am sure that you have had bad
>> dreams. This was a pure intellectual experience. Now, think of the most
>> horrible dreams, very real, experienced all the time. This is what hell
>> will be like. It will be a "Hellish-Intellectual" experience. This is
>> why we can experience a sense of Hell in this world - pure, mental
> anguish.
>
> The spirit and the flesh are two different things, true.
> They cannot exist separately. In other words when our body (flesh) dies
> our
> spirit dies (temporarily).

Sleeps
 
"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:474aface$0$27039$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...
>
> "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
> news:13klua99d4uql82@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "nick cobb" <nickk@cris.com> wrote in message
> > news:xWA2j.2285$C24.1857@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> >> Understand what "Hell" is. It is NOT a physical place. When a person
> >> dies, their spiritual self is separated from their material body. Think
> >> of the spiritual self as pure intellect. I am sure that you have had
bad
> >> dreams. This was a pure intellectual experience. Now, think of the most
> >> horrible dreams, very real, experienced all the time. This is what hell
> >> will be like. It will be a "Hellish-Intellectual" experience. This is
> >> why we can experience a sense of Hell in this world - pure, mental
> > anguish.
> >
> > The spirit and the flesh are two different things, true.
> > They cannot exist separately. In other words when our body (flesh) dies
> > our
> > spirit dies (temporarily).
>
> Sleeps
>
>
Ok, laid to a well deserved rest (break).
 
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:355ik31mjkvfmp1n0hnclqj238job8upa6@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:39:29 -0700, checker@flapper.net wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:54:31 -0500, Gabriel
> ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 08:46:07 -0700, checker@flapper.net wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:02:30 -0000, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>><lsenders@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>news:bea001d4-a272-4a7a-9cc2-e7ad5e6fd0f5@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> On Nov 23, 11:41 am, "Ghamph" <gha...@localnet.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> There Is No Hell
> >>>>>> When we project an appetite for vengeance on God, we pervert the
divine
> >>>>>> image.
> >>>>>> By the Rev. Forrest Church
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke
has it)
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them,
whereas
> >>>>>> Unitarians believe that they're too good to be damned. I am a
> >>>>>> Universalist.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won't be in a
cattle
> >>>>>> car
> >>>>>> on the fast train to Satan's fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither
will
> >>>>>> Old
> >>>>>> Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be
saved. In
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest
until
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is
no
> >>>>>> hell.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Really!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the
> >>>>>> biblical
> >>>>>> record).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wrong again!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SNIP
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> None of us is too good to be damned, but God is too good and too
loving
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> damn us. There is no hell.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For anyone who wants an informed study on this topic. read "Hell
> >>>>> Under Fire" with about 12 separate authors looking at the topic and
> >>>>> its related topics. Best book I've found on the subject though
> >>>>> Jonathan Edwards wrote a couple of note worthies.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But the jist of this particular post reveals that emotionism, not an
> >>>>> intelligent survey of what Scripture teaches on the subject, caters
to
> >>>>> the immature and unlearned.
> >>>>
> >>>>SCRIPTURE IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE OPINIONS OF POORLY
> >>>>EDUCATED ANCIENT SHEEP HERDERS THAT FELT COMPELLED TO
> >>>>INVENT ANSWERS TO UNANSWERED QUESTIONS!
> >>>>
> >>>I see that you are nothing more than a poorly educated person who has
> >>>no idea at all who penned the Bible or why. Even so, you have LOTS of
> >>>mindless opinions about the book you have not read through, clearly
> >>>know little or nothing about, and are dead set against because of your
> >>>own ignorance.
> >>
> >>Although I can understand not agreeing with that poster, I don't
> >>think God has it in mind that we attack them.
> >
> >Why is that? He is preaching a "false gospel;" one that says the
> >Bible and Christianity are myths and not true.
> >
> >> Consider that we
> >>were all once in the same boat: lost. Now that many of us are no
> >>longer lost, we must show patience towards those who have not had
> >>the benefit of receiving the gift of grace yet.
> >>
> >>2 Timothy 2:23-26 KJVR But foolish and unlearned questions
> >>avoid, knowing that they do engender strifes. 24 And the
> >>servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men,
> >>apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that
> >>oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance
> >>to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover
> >>themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive
> >>by him at his will.
> >>
> >Col 4:5-6
> >
> >5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time.
> >
> >6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt , that ye
> >may know how ye ought to answer every man.
> >KJV
> >
> >2 Tim 4:1-5
> >I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will
> >judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2
> >Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season . Convince,
> >rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time
> >will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to
> >their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up
> >for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the
> >truth, and be turned aside to fables.
> >NKJV
> >
> >He preaches myths and fables.
>
> I agree. But we are to be gentle as doves and wise as serpents.
> Christ commands us to love our neighbor. To instead display forms
> of hate is to ignore Christ's commandments.
>
> 2 Timothy 2:23-26 KJVR But foolish and unlearned questions
> avoid, knowing that they do engender strifes. 24 And the
> servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men,
> apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that
> oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance
> to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover
> themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive
> by him at his will.
>
> So of course we point out the untruths of their claims, but we
> avoid strife and instead be patient and meek as much as possible.
> We must be an example of Christ's love. And we must not become
> just like those we wish to reprove. I, too, must be on guard and
> pray for God's strength to avoid such things!
>
> May God Bless you!
>
> >
> >Checker

Oh my God, light in the darkness!
A parable is a made up story to teach spiritual truths or values. The Bible
is full of parables.
To start taking names or checking dates and referring to history books is
totally (missing the purpose).
The only hell is, what being in the dark brings us.
 
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:0oihk3plc34vddvqtb3emomb4c6gdg278o@4ax.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:24:44 -0800 (PST), "jennilen25@gmail.com"
> <jennilen25@gmail.com> wrote:
>
 
In article <13klqlb5kmsm199@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:

> ".R. L. MEASURES" <2@vc.net> wrote in message
> news:2-2611070622190001@66-53-216-171.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com...
> > In article <474a19d1$0$27056$7836cce5@newsrazor.net>, "vernono"
> > <vernono@hereandthere> wrote:
> >
> > > "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
> > > news:13ke44aivhesmb4@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > There Is No Hell
> > >
> > >
> > > At minimum, it is here and now on earth.
> >
> > ?? I know a guy who had two, unwed, twice-pregnant daughters living at
> home.
> >
> > --
> > Rich Measures, 386-3734, www.somis.org
>
> I plead innocent.
> Jamffer

The diacetylmorphine using father is in the slammer, the cocaine using
father is currently out.

--
Rich Measures, 386-3734, www.somis.org
 
In article <474ae858$0$26085$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:

>
 
Ghamph wrote:
> "Will" <nomail@afraid.org> wrote in message
> news:cMj2j.77472$Um6.2907@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>> Ghamph wrote:
>>> There Is No Hell
>>> When we project an appetite for vengeance on God, we pervert the divine
>>> image.
>>> By the Rev. Forrest Church
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has
> it) is
>>> that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas
>>> Unitarians believe that they're too good to be damned. I am a
> Universalist.
>>> For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won't be in a cattle
> car
>>> on the fast train to Satan's fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will
> Old
>>> Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In
> the
>>> good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until
> the
>>> entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no
> hell.
>> You're half-right. There is no eternal damnation where one screams in
>> agony as they burn forever. However, there is a place where bad souls
>> go to be destroyed, where they are unmade (Gehenna). This is the valley
>> of the son of Himmon, also referred to as the valley of slaughter.
>
> Good luck with that belief.
>

It is what it is, and based on my understanding of the scripture. I
think there is a similar type of belief called annihilationism, but I
don't pay too much attention to these kinds of groupings.

>> When the OT spoke of hell, it was translated from the Hebrew word Sheol,
>> meaning simply the pit, the grave, or death. Basically, it's where
>> anyone goes when they die, they go to Sheol, and sleep with their
>> fathers until the resurrection.
>
> The sting of death is a sin. When contemplating our guaranteed demise, if
> it is thought of as stinging, then we still need to be born of the spirit.
> Christ said "follow me" and that didn't mean "follow me for a short
> distance".
> Eternal creatures do not have a sting of death. Quote Christ "you have
> eternal life" no conditions, only a fact or (Gospel).
> Even if one believes in a hell, one needs to live forever, for it to happen.
> To die without being born of the spirit means eternal darkness, that's not
> good, but not eternal barbeque.

At that point, to those who are not accepted into the new Jerusulem,
they simply are put out of existence. They enter the hell that is
translated from the Hebrew word Sheol, which is not the hell that most
Christians are familiar with.

>> In the NT, hell is often translated from Gehenna, which, as indicated
>> above, does not point to everlasting torment, but yet a second death, a
>> death on the day of judgment. In the NT, there are a few places where
>> hell is translated from Hades, being the pagan place of eternal
>> suffering. But since neither Christ nor his audience were pagans, but
>> were Jews living in a pagan society, the use of the word hades in His
>> speech was more of a cultural reference than a confirmation that such a
>> place exists, for nowhere in the OT did hades, or anything like hades,
>> exist.
>>
>>>
>>> It's easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the
> biblical
>>> record). Eternal damnation solves the sticky part of the problem of
> evil:
>>> Why do good things happen to bad people? Reserving a corner of hell for
> all
>>> who escape well-deserved punishment here on earth balances the moral
> ledger
>>> sheet. Justice is done. Otherwise, not only is life unfair; the
> afterlife
>>> becomes unfair as well.
>> Of course, some won't have an afterlife, except that, on their day of
>> judgment, they be on their way to the slaughter, and on that day, their
>> soul will cease to exist.
>
> You are wrong!

Really? How so?

>> 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt
>> tree bring forth good fruit.
>
> You are right.

Not me. This is what Jesus said.

>> 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast
>> into the fire.
>
> Not very forgiving, from a Christian.

Not my judgment. Again, these are the words of Christ Jesus as recorded
in Matthew. It's quite simple, those who would bring evil to heaven
(not that anyone is perfect, but many still walk in darkness whereas
others have seen the light) will not enter the kingdom. Again, like you
said, it's not an eternal BBQ.

>> --Matthew 7:18-19, KJV
>>
>> What happens to a tree when it is cast into a fire? It is consumed,
>> leaving behind nothing but ash, yes? The tree, in its original form and
>> function, no longer exist, but it has returned to the place from where
>> it came, and is now dust.
>
> We are all (walking, and living dust).
>> [snip]
>>
>>> The idea of purgatory makes perfectly good sense. I can imagine the
> utility
>> Except that it is unbiblical, ya?
>
> Elementary school seemed like purgatory to me.
>>> of corrective punishment. But eternal hellfire demeans everything I
> believe
>>> about God. More important, it eviscerates the heart of Jesus' gospel.
>> If you chose to believe in purgatory, than do you not know that today
>> you are in it, until the day you enter the kingdom of God, or the day
>> you enter sheol.
>
> Until you are born of the spirit.
>> 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God
>> should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not
>> with observation:
>>
>> 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the
>> kingdom of God is within you.
>> --Luke 17:20-21, KJV
>
> The kingdom of heaven is within us. That is a fact and there are no
> conditions, rules, time payments, or signatures required.
> One only needs to hear it and completely (know) that it is true. Eternal
> life is a free gift, because it is not a gift, it is a fact and the good
> news, is the real gift!
> The only hell is eternal darkness and what that brings to us.
>> In other words, the kingdom of God is within you if you chose to follow
>> Christ. For by following Christ Jesus, you would not only love your
>> neighbor and love your God (the two great commandments that all the law
>> and prophets hang upon), but would be at an internal peace, knowing the
>> God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel will provide.
>>

Regards,

Will
 
"Will" <nomail@afraid.org> wrote in message
news:zBJ2j.3225$fl7.1534@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> Ghamph wrote:
> > "Will" <nomail@afraid.org> wrote in message
> > news:cMj2j.77472$Um6.2907@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> >> Ghamph wrote:
> >>> There Is No Hell
> >>> When we project an appetite for vengeance on God, we pervert the
divine
> >>> image.
> >>> By the Rev. Forrest Church
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has
> > it) is
> >>> that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas
> >>> Unitarians believe that they're too good to be damned. I am a
> > Universalist.
> >>> For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won't be in a
cattle
> > car
> >>> on the fast train to Satan's fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will
> > Old
> >>> Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved.
In
> > the
> >>> good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until
> > the
> >>> entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no
> > hell.
> >> You're half-right. There is no eternal damnation where one screams in
> >> agony as they burn forever. However, there is a place where bad souls
> >> go to be destroyed, where they are unmade (Gehenna). This is the
valley
> >> of the son of Himmon, also referred to as the valley of slaughter.
> >
> > Good luck with that belief.
> >
>
> It is what it is, and based on my understanding of the scripture. I
> think there is a similar type of belief called annihilationism, but I
> don't pay too much attention to these kinds of groupings.
>
> >> When the OT spoke of hell, it was translated from the Hebrew word
Sheol,
> >> meaning simply the pit, the grave, or death. Basically, it's where
> >> anyone goes when they die, they go to Sheol, and sleep with their
> >> fathers until the resurrection.
> >
> > The sting of death is a sin. When contemplating our guaranteed demise,
if
> > it is thought of as stinging, then we still need to be born of the
spirit.
> > Christ said "follow me" and that didn't mean "follow me for a short
> > distance".
> > Eternal creatures do not have a sting of death. Quote Christ "you have
> > eternal life" no conditions, only a fact or (Gospel).
> > Even if one believes in a hell, one needs to live forever, for it to
happen.
> > To die without being born of the spirit means eternal darkness, that's
not
> > good, but not eternal barbeque.
>
> At that point, to those who are not accepted into the new Jerusulem,
> they simply are put out of existence. They enter the hell that is
> translated from the Hebrew word Sheol, which is not the hell that most
> Christians are familiar with.
>
> >> In the NT, hell is often translated from Gehenna, which, as indicated
> >> above, does not point to everlasting torment, but yet a second death, a
> >> death on the day of judgment. In the NT, there are a few places where
> >> hell is translated from Hades, being the pagan place of eternal
> >> suffering. But since neither Christ nor his audience were pagans, but
> >> were Jews living in a pagan society, the use of the word hades in His
> >> speech was more of a cultural reference than a confirmation that such a
> >> place exists, for nowhere in the OT did hades, or anything like hades,
> >> exist.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> It's easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the
> > biblical
> >>> record). Eternal damnation solves the sticky part of the problem of
> > evil:
> >>> Why do good things happen to bad people? Reserving a corner of hell
for
> > all
> >>> who escape well-deserved punishment here on earth balances the moral
> > ledger
> >>> sheet. Justice is done. Otherwise, not only is life unfair; the
> > afterlife
> >>> becomes unfair as well.
> >> Of course, some won't have an afterlife, except that, on their day of
> >> judgment, they be on their way to the slaughter, and on that day, their
> >> soul will cease to exist.
> >
> > You are wrong!
>
> Really? How so?
>
> >> 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt
> >> tree bring forth good fruit.
> >
> > You are right.
>
> Not me. This is what Jesus said.
>
> >> 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and
cast
> >> into the fire.
> >
> > Not very forgiving, from a Christian.
>
> Not my judgment. Again, these are the words of Christ Jesus as recorded
> in Matthew. It's quite simple, those who would bring evil to heaven
> (not that anyone is perfect, but many still walk in darkness whereas
> others have seen the light) will not enter the kingdom. Again, like you
> said, it's not an eternal BBQ.

I like to tell people about the gold buried under the house.
Ten million dollars in gold buried in the cellar three feet down and
somebody says it's there but you don't believe them and never dig.
They go all their life and never find it and finally die. The gold was
there but it was never found, like eternal life.
The good news is news to be believed or not. Heaven or hell, light or
darkness, believe or not an easy choice?


>
> >> --Matthew 7:18-19, KJV
> >>
> >> What happens to a tree when it is cast into a fire? It is consumed,
> >> leaving behind nothing but ash, yes? The tree, in its original form
and
> >> function, no longer exist, but it has returned to the place from where
> >> it came, and is now dust.
> >
> > We are all (walking, and living dust).
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>> The idea of purgatory makes perfectly good sense. I can imagine the
> > utility
> >> Except that it is unbiblical, ya?
> >
> > Elementary school seemed like purgatory to me.
> >>> of corrective punishment. But eternal hellfire demeans everything I
> > believe
> >>> about God. More important, it eviscerates the heart of Jesus' gospel.
> >> If you chose to believe in purgatory, than do you not know that today
> >> you are in it, until the day you enter the kingdom of God, or the day
> >> you enter sheol.
> >
> > Until you are born of the spirit.
> >> 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God
> >> should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not
> >> with observation:
> >>
> >> 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the
> >> kingdom of God is within you.
> >> --Luke 17:20-21, KJV
> >
> > The kingdom of heaven is within us. That is a fact and there are no
> > conditions, rules, time payments, or signatures required.
> > One only needs to hear it and completely (know) that it is true.
Eternal
> > life is a free gift, because it is not a gift, it is a fact and the good
> > news, is the real gift!
> > The only hell is eternal darkness and what that brings to us.
> >> In other words, the kingdom of God is within you if you chose to follow
> >> Christ. For by following Christ Jesus, you would not only love your
> >> neighbor and love your God (the two great commandments that all the law
> >> and prophets hang upon), but would be at an internal peace, knowing the
> >> God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel will provide.
> >>
>
> Regards,
>
> Will
 
Ghamph wrote:
> "Will" <nomail@afraid.org> wrote in message
> news:zBJ2j.3225$fl7.1534@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>> Ghamph wrote:
>>> "Will" <nomail@afraid.org> wrote in message
>>> news:cMj2j.77472$Um6.2907@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> Ghamph wrote:
>>>>> There Is No Hell
>>>>> When we project an appetite for vengeance on God, we pervert the
> divine
>>>>> image.
>>>>> By the Rev. Forrest Church
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has
>>> it) is
>>>>> that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas
>>>>> Unitarians believe that they're too good to be damned. I am a
>>> Universalist.
>>>>> For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won't be in a
> cattle
>>> car
>>>>> on the fast train to Satan's fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will
>>> Old
>>>>> Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved.
> In
>>> the
>>>>> good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until
>>> the
>>>>> entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no
>>> hell.
>>>> You're half-right. There is no eternal damnation where one screams in
>>>> agony as they burn forever. However, there is a place where bad souls
>>>> go to be destroyed, where they are unmade (Gehenna). This is the
> valley
>>>> of the son of Himmon, also referred to as the valley of slaughter.
>>> Good luck with that belief.
>>>
>> It is what it is, and based on my understanding of the scripture. I
>> think there is a similar type of belief called annihilationism, but I
>> don't pay too much attention to these kinds of groupings.
>>
>>>> When the OT spoke of hell, it was translated from the Hebrew word
> Sheol,
>>>> meaning simply the pit, the grave, or death. Basically, it's where
>>>> anyone goes when they die, they go to Sheol, and sleep with their
>>>> fathers until the resurrection.
>>> The sting of death is a sin. When contemplating our guaranteed demise,
> if
>>> it is thought of as stinging, then we still need to be born of the
> spirit.
>>> Christ said "follow me" and that didn't mean "follow me for a short
>>> distance".
>>> Eternal creatures do not have a sting of death. Quote Christ "you have
>>> eternal life" no conditions, only a fact or (Gospel).
>>> Even if one believes in a hell, one needs to live forever, for it to
> happen.
>>> To die without being born of the spirit means eternal darkness, that's
> not
>>> good, but not eternal barbeque.
>> At that point, to those who are not accepted into the new Jerusulem,
>> they simply are put out of existence. They enter the hell that is
>> translated from the Hebrew word Sheol, which is not the hell that most
>> Christians are familiar with.
>>
>>>> In the NT, hell is often translated from Gehenna, which, as indicated
>>>> above, does not point to everlasting torment, but yet a second death, a
>>>> death on the day of judgment. In the NT, there are a few places where
>>>> hell is translated from Hades, being the pagan place of eternal
>>>> suffering. But since neither Christ nor his audience were pagans, but
>>>> were Jews living in a pagan society, the use of the word hades in His
>>>> speech was more of a cultural reference than a confirmation that such a
>>>> place exists, for nowhere in the OT did hades, or anything like hades,
>>>> exist.
>>>>
>>>>> It's easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the
>>> biblical
>>>>> record). Eternal damnation solves the sticky part of the problem of
>>> evil:
>>>>> Why do good things happen to bad people? Reserving a corner of hell
> for
>>> all
>>>>> who escape well-deserved punishment here on earth balances the moral
>>> ledger
>>>>> sheet. Justice is done. Otherwise, not only is life unfair; the
>>> afterlife
>>>>> becomes unfair as well.
>>>> Of course, some won't have an afterlife, except that, on their day of
>>>> judgment, they be on their way to the slaughter, and on that day, their
>>>> soul will cease to exist.
>>> You are wrong!
>> Really? How so?
>>
>>>> 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt
>>>> tree bring forth good fruit.
>>> You are right.
>> Not me. This is what Jesus said.
>>
>>>> 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and
> cast
>>>> into the fire.
>>> Not very forgiving, from a Christian.
>> Not my judgment. Again, these are the words of Christ Jesus as recorded
>> in Matthew. It's quite simple, those who would bring evil to heaven
>> (not that anyone is perfect, but many still walk in darkness whereas
>> others have seen the light) will not enter the kingdom. Again, like you
>> said, it's not an eternal BBQ.
>
> I like to tell people about the gold buried under the house.
> Ten million dollars in gold buried in the cellar three feet down and
> somebody says it's there but you don't believe them and never dig.
> They go all their life and never find it and finally die. The gold was
> there but it was never found, like eternal life.
> The good news is news to be believed or not. Heaven or hell, light or
> darkness, believe or not an easy choice?
>

That's great. But you know what? Just because someone choses not to
believe in hell doesn't mean they're not a Christian. In fact, I guess
the only true test given to us from the scripture is: are the
commandments followed, and does the "Christian" bare good fruit. If
you're a Christian, you follow the commandments, and you bare good
fruit, than you're in good company, and I'll see you in the new
Jerusuleum. However, if you say you're a Christian, but you either
don't follow the commandments, or you don't bare good fruit (and if you
don't follow the commandments, than what good fruit could you bare?),
than you're not really a Christian, for you do not know Christ.

Note that not one of these tests has anything to do with a belief
concerning the existence (or lack thereof) of hell.

Regards,

Will

>
>>>> --Matthew 7:18-19, KJV
>>>>
>>>> What happens to a tree when it is cast into a fire? It is consumed,
>>>> leaving behind nothing but ash, yes? The tree, in its original form
> and
>>>> function, no longer exist, but it has returned to the place from where
>>>> it came, and is now dust.
>>> We are all (walking, and living dust).
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>> The idea of purgatory makes perfectly good sense. I can imagine the
>>> utility
>>>> Except that it is unbiblical, ya?
>>> Elementary school seemed like purgatory to me.
>>>>> of corrective punishment. But eternal hellfire demeans everything I
>>> believe
>>>>> about God. More important, it eviscerates the heart of Jesus' gospel.
>>>> If you chose to believe in purgatory, than do you not know that today
>>>> you are in it, until the day you enter the kingdom of God, or the day
>>>> you enter sheol.
>>> Until you are born of the spirit.
>>>> 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God
>>>> should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not
>>>> with observation:
>>>>
>>>> 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the
>>>> kingdom of God is within you.
>>>> --Luke 17:20-21, KJV
>>> The kingdom of heaven is within us. That is a fact and there are no
>>> conditions, rules, time payments, or signatures required.
>>> One only needs to hear it and completely (know) that it is true.
> Eternal
>>> life is a free gift, because it is not a gift, it is a fact and the good
>>> news, is the real gift!
>>> The only hell is eternal darkness and what that brings to us.
>>>> In other words, the kingdom of God is within you if you chose to follow
>>>> Christ. For by following Christ Jesus, you would not only love your
>>>> neighbor and love your God (the two great commandments that all the law
>>>> and prophets hang upon), but would be at an internal peace, knowing the
>>>> God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel will provide.
>>>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Will
>
>
 
Ghamph wrote:
>
> I like to tell people about the gold buried under the house.
> Ten million dollars in gold buried in the cellar three feet down and
> somebody says it's there but you don't believe them and never dig.
> They go all their life and never find it and finally die. The gold was
> there but it was never found, like eternal life.
------------------
And others will tell you it's buried here or there. And they are
all lying. If it was there, why didn't THEY dig it up and spend it??

There is NO WAY of knowing which of dozens of supposed revelations
are true, without believing each one of them each in a different life
and then dying and seeing where you go each time. And that's assuming
they aren't all lies. Why would God have told THOSE people personally
and NOT YOU?? Do you even WANT that kind of Gawd?? No one has EVER died
and come back to tell us anything. People die, and none of them come
back. It is suspicious that the only tale of someone who did dates to
before most people even learned to write, and that it is beyond any
current investigation. One wonders why there isn't one more recently
that we CAN investigate, or is it that liars INTENTIONAALLY choose
eras too far back to investigate merely to foil efforts to unmask their
lies?? It is suspicious that the Xtian myth is dated before the current
historical record, than much more recent and we know that it would have
been disproved too easily. Given that, it is inevitable that one or
another lies from or about that period precisely would become the
core of current religious mysticism, since miraculous claims back then
could never be checked or enough different accounts found that don't
jibe to interfere with its believability!!

On top of that, does God not want ANY skeptics in Heaven?? Skeptics
are good people who don't believe things that are obnoxious or
reprehensible! Why would God want NO skeptics in Heaven? Is the Gawd
really an Oz-ian "man behind the curtain" with a bunch of things to
hide? IS He/She just a powerful alien who has held this planet in
His/Her thrall for centuries, and is a Liar????
Steve
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:59:30 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
wrote:
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:54:31 -0500, Gabriel
<gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:11:10 -0800, 'the unwelcome other
party'@yahoo.com> wrote:


SNIP!
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:13:42 -0800, 'the unwelcome other
party'@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:54:31 -0500, Gabriel
><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has it)
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas
>>>>>> Unitarians believe that they're too good to be damned. I am a
>>>>>> Universalist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won't be in a cattle
>>>>>> car
>>>>>> on the fast train to Satan's fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will
>>>>>> Old
>>>>>> Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no
>>>>>> hell.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Really!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the
>>>>>> biblical
>>>>>> record).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong again!
>>>>>
>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>
>>>>>> None of us is too good to be damned, but God is too good and too loving
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> damn us. There is no hell.
>>>>>
>>>>> For anyone who wants an informed study on this topic. read "Hell
>>>>> Under Fire" with about 12 separate authors looking at the topic and
>>>>> its related topics. Best book I've found on the subject though
>>>>> Jonathan Edwards wrote a couple of note worthies.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the jist of this particular post reveals that emotionism, not an
>>>>> intelligent survey of what Scripture teaches on the subject, caters to
>>>>> the immature and unlearned.
>>>>
>>>>SCRIPTURE IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE OPINIONS OF POORLY
>>>>EDUCATED ANCIENT SHEEP HERDERS THAT FELT COMPELLED TO
>>>>INVENT ANSWERS TO UNANSWERED QUESTIONS!
>>>>
>>>I see that you are nothing more than a poorly educated person who has
>>>no idea at all who penned the Bible or why. Even so, you have LOTS of
>>>mindless opinions about the book you have not read through, clearly
>>>know little or nothing about, and are dead set against because of your
>>>own ignorance.
>>
>>Although I can understand not agreeing with that poster, I don't
>>think God has it in mind that we attack them.


SNIP!
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:15:20 -0800, 'the unwelcome other
party'@yahoo.com> wrote:



SNIP!
 
"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:474C3102.3B9E@armory.com...
> Ghamph wrote:
> >
> > I like to tell people about the gold buried under the house.
> > Ten million dollars in gold buried in the cellar three feet down and
> > somebody says it's there but you don't believe them and never dig.
> > They go all their life and never find it and finally die. The gold was
> > there but it was never found, like eternal life.
> ------------------
> And others will tell you it's buried here or there. And they are
> all lying. If it was there, why didn't THEY dig it up and spend it??

Don't forget, it's a parable. I invented the story only to try to convey
that if there is any good news to know, like knowing that we never die, that
it isn't as easy to say it and expect someone to believe it without some
kind of evidence.
There are ways to get evidence, but are not talked about in conventional
religious teaching.
There are several non-orthodox means to see eternal things and obtain
conclusive proof but one must be like a warrior because to see the future,
is a little risky in that one might see their own death and that is
something that, I for one, wouldn't like to know.


>
> There is NO WAY of knowing which of dozens of supposed revelations
> are true, without believing each one of them each in a different life
> and then dying and seeing where you go each time. And that's assuming
> they aren't all lies. Why would God have told THOSE people personally
> and NOT YOU?? Do you even WANT that kind of Gawd?? No one has EVER died
> and come back to tell us anything. People die, and none of them come
> back. It is suspicious that the only tale of someone who did dates to
> before most people even learned to write, and that it is beyond any
> current investigation. One wonders why there isn't one more recently
> that we CAN investigate, or is it that liars INTENTIONAALLY choose
> eras too far back to investigate merely to foil efforts to unmask their
> lies?? It is suspicious that the Xtian myth is dated before the current
> historical record, than much more recent and we know that it would have
> been disproved too easily. Given that, it is inevitable that one or
> another lies from or about that period precisely would become the
> core of current religious mysticism, since miraculous claims back then
> could never be checked or enough different accounts found that don't
> jibe to interfere with its believability!!
>
> On top of that, does God not want ANY skeptics in Heaven?? Skeptics
> are good people who don't believe things that are obnoxious or
> reprehensible! Why would God want NO skeptics in Heaven? Is the Gawd
> really an Oz-ian "man behind the curtain" with a bunch of things to
> hide? IS He/She just a powerful alien who has held this planet in
> His/Her thrall for centuries, and is a Liar????
> Steve
 
Gabriel wrote:

> On 23 Nov 2007 22:17:01 -0600, bob young
> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Ted J L wrote:
> >
> >> In article <13ke44aivhesmb4@corp.supernews.com>, ghamph@localnet.com says...
> >> >
> >> >There Is No Hell
> >>
> >> "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof
> >> are the ways of death."[Pr 16:25]
> >
> >If there is a God who will damn his children forever,
>
> We're not his children until we repent and accept his only
> begotton Son Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior.

So say the early humans who made it all up in the first place.

No god ever said it.

>
>
> Galatians 3:26-27 KJVR For ye are all the children of God by
> faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been
> baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
>
> Then we are His children, and you are exactly right: He will not
> damn His children.
>
> But, until we do this, we are not His children and are at enmity
> with God.
>
> John 3:36 KJVR He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting
> life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but
> the wrath of God abideth on him.
>
> And those who -choose- not to be His children are damned in hell,
> as payment for the wages of their sin.
>
> But God loves everyone, that everyone would -choose- to repent
> and be saved.
>
> 2 Peter 3:9 KJVR The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
> as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not
> willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
> repentance.
>
> >I would rather
> >go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an
> >infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It
> > has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the
> >hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men....
>
> So you despise the doctrine of loving your neighbor as yourself?
>
> Matthew 22:36-39 KJVR Master, which is the great commandment in
> the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
> God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
> mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the
> second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
>
> Matthew 5:43-45 KJVR Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou
> shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say
> unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good
> to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
> you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your
> Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the
> evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the
> unjust.
>
> But you despise such doctrine? To despise such doctrines is to
> hold truth in unrighteousness.
>
> Romans 1:18 KJVR For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
> against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the
> truth in unrighteousness;
>
> >What
> >right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to
> >stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and
> >fill the future with horror and with fear?
>
> We are to go forth into the world and spread the good news of our
> savior Jesus Christ.
>
> Mark 16:15-16 KJVR And he said unto them, Go ye into all the
> world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that
> believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
> not shall be damned.
>
> >I do not believe this
> >doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment.
>
> I sleep better now than I ever did before I became a child of
> God. If you say you would not be able to sleep, then it's your
> wrong interpretation of what you think you know about God and his
> saving grace that is the problem.
>
> > Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent,
> >throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and
> >does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a
> > hyena. -- Robert Green Ingersoll, "The Liberty Of All" (1877)
> >
> >
> >Someone in heaven heard that his best friend down on earth had just passed
> >away.
> >
> >?Oh I'm so looking forward to seeing him again? the man said. ?Sorry? said God,
> >?But he will not be coming here because he has been a little bit more sinful
> >than you, so your friend, will be going to the other place we call Hell?.
> >
> >So here's this man, sitting for eternity in paradise next to his loving God,
> >whilst his friend, who had been just a little more sinful than he, is about to
> >roast for eternity on burning coals in a place called Hell.
> >
> >Is it conceivable that anything could be more banal, juvenile, or crassly
> >stupid?
>
> If you remembered these people while in heaven, you would be
> correct. Those who end up cast into hell will not be remembered
> by those who are in heaven.
>
> Revelation 21:4-5 KJVR And God shall wipe away all tears from
> their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor
> crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former
> things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said,
> Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for
> these words are true and faithful.
>
> But those who are in hell will remember quite clearly those who
> are in heaven, or still alive.
>
> Luke 16:19-31 KJVR There was a certain rich man, which was
> clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every
> day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was
> laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with
> the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the
> dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that
> the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's
> bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell
> he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar
> off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father
> Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the
> tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am
> tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember
> that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and
> likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou
> art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there
> is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence
> to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from
> thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that
> thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five
> brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into
> this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have
> Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said,
> Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead,
> they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not
> Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though
> one rose from the dead.
>
> Try praying to God and ask for understanding. Try reading the
> Gospel of John in the Bible.
>
> If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!
>
> >
> >Bob
> >Humanist Brit.
> >Hong Kong
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Scripture references are quoted from The holy Bible, King James version
> >> Prepared for the University of Virginia Library Electronic Text Center
> >> http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/relig.browse.html
 
"john w

> x-no-archive: yes
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:59:30 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
 

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