Would you be mad if your childs school fingerprinted them without your permission?

[snafu]

Jax I don

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...Educate them to wear gloves when they commit a crime I guess.

Ain't this the truth! ****ing CSI and other crime lab shows are creating a new generation of super smart mother ****ing criminals.

****, all the techniques and technology are right there on the tv for them to learn how to avoid.

Brilliant.

 

[ToriAllen]

Ain't this the truth! ****ing CSI and other crime lab shows are creating a new generation of super smart mother ****ing criminals.

****, all the techniques and technology are right there on the tv for them to learn how to avoid.

Brilliant.

A lot of the stuff on CSI, especially Miami, is really unrealistic. It takes more than two minutes to get a hit on fingerprints out of the database. And, the crap with enhancing the image in someone

 

[Lethalfind]

A lot of the stuff on CSI, especially Miami, is really unrealistic. It takes more than two minutes to get a hit on fingerprints out of the database. And, the crap with enhancing the image in someone

 

[angie]

Why the HELL do the good ol' boys want a DNA sample to keep on record from your daughter? That is totally bizarre.

 

[Lethalfind]

I'm saying it is probably less than what the daughter is claiming. Perhaps a threat that became a story. I knew about fingerprinting at that age. It is in a lot of movies and is very common place. The thing that seems concocted to me is the whole microscope thing. That seems like a child’s view of how fingerprinting works. An adult would threaten to send it to a lab. Something is not right about this. I am saying I would not fly off the handle at hearing this story from my child. I would get to the bottom of it by going to the source. Going to the police before finding out the whole story is rash and irresponsible. You are talking about a person’s career. I think she should at least get the chance to speak before she is charged and convicted by some irrational parent that refuses to believe their child could ever lie.

Tori, I never said my daughter could never lie, thats your way of trying to make me some unreasonable rather addressing the actual issue. You can disagree but do so with integrity rather then the way in which you have.
All children have issues with the truth or sometimes they don'd understand what has happened. That is not the point. As far as my concern effecting the teachers career, she better be concerned about her career if she is in actual fact doing what has been said. My loyalty is for my daughter full stop, don't get in a situation with with my daughter that might be iffy if your concerned that your career might suffer because be sure of one thing, I will not let something like this go easily.

 

[Lethalfind]

Why the HELL do the good ol' boys want a DNA sample to keep on record from your daughter? That is totally bizarre.

I don't have a clue but I was literally taken aback. You can tell the nurse gets alot of those reactions because of the way she immediatly reacted by saying I had no choice in the matter, all children born in Texas have this done and their blood kept on file. She never used the words DNA but what else could it have been for, they were huge drops on this special paper with three large round spots instructing them where to put the ink...I even have an extra one of these papers if I remember correctly.

I just got off the phone with the school. I didn't want to make that call until I was calmed down. I also wanted to hear what other people thought about it. I still feel its wrong to do this. I told the assistant principal this along with the whole story. I of course told her that its posible that Diane got the wrong idea. I advised her that I doubted the examination of fingerprints actually took place and that I thought it was done as an intimidation tactic. I told her that I thought if this was the case its a sign that the teacher has a problem disciplining her classroom.
I have also spoken with the police and was advised that its not legal for the school to take fingerprints of my child under these circumstances.
I worried about the teacher getting in trouble and her taking it out on my daughter in some way. Diane has been doing really well in school this year and seems to like her teacher and classmates. We will see...

 

[ToriAllen]

You don't honestly see a difference in kids making a craft that ulitmately comes home with them that MIGHT have their fingerprints on it and a teacher purposely fingerprinting your child, labeling the cards with the childs name, having them analyzed under a microscope in order to find the person who broke something??
Even if my child was the one who broke the pencil off, she is not a criminal and should not be treated as such.

I’m saying that is the kind of extremes these ridiculous arguments end up going to. As I have said before, the likelihood that that actually happened is slim to none. Finger prints can not be accurately analyzed with a microscope. Maybe it was some kind of class project, or learning exercise.

If for no other reason that I have to say this shows this teacher has no authority over her children.

Assuming, of-course, that this actually happened.

As for keeping DNA on file, when my daughter was born, they (the medical staff) took three large drops of blood and sent them to Austin (the capitol of Texas where she was born) to be kept on file. I was told I had no choice. I have a problem with that. If I was a parent want to keep that on file for some reason, that should be my choice but too be told that a DNA sample was being taken whether I wanted it to be taken or not and to be kept on file in the states capitol, I was a little taken aback by that.

I don’t see a problem with that. DNA is the one thing that is unique for everyone. It has exonerated the innocent and convicted the guilty. I think everyone sould have to have their DNA on file in a national data base. I still haven’t heard of a good reason why this shouldn’t be done.

I still say if you don't protect your liberties, no matter how small, you will end up loosing them, one by one by one...

Which of your liberties are you trying to protect by keeping finger prints and DNA off file.

Tori, I never said my daughter could never lie, thats your way of trying to make me some unreasonable rather addressing the actual issue. You can disagree but do so with integrity rather then the way in which you have.

I can maintain integrity and question your rational at the same time. Perhaps you should know the definition of integrity before questioning mine. I am always honest and forthright, I just choose not to hold back on what I think. From what you have stated, and continue to state, you still have not asked the teacher about this ‘incident’. Yet, you felt it necessary to go to the police, and degrade the teacher’s ability on here. You don’t even know if it is true. As such, I stick behind my original statement of rash and irresponsible. You don’t go to the cops about an incident you are not sure happened.

All children have issues with the truth or sometimes they don'd understand what has happened. That is not the point. As far as my concern effecting the teachers career, she better be concerned about her career if she is in actual fact doing what has been said. My loyalty is for my daughter full stop, don't get in a situation with with my daughter that might be iffy if your concerned that your career might suffer because be sure of one thing, I will not let something like this go easily.

I’m for my kids full stop, too, but that does not mean flying off the handle with every story they tell me to the point where I discount any other possibilities. I try to instill honesty and responsibility in my children, first and foremost. This means if they lie, they take responsibility for their lie. I also try to make sure I have the whole truth before coming to rash conclusions, something you have failed to do. It is your obligation to get to the truth, even if that means your daughter lied. I realize as a parent, that no parent wants to face the chance that his/her child has done anything wrong, because that is a reflection on the parent. It is much easier to always side with the child. After all, they’re the result of your raising, so they can’t be wrong. Don’t be a pushover, easily played parent. Find the truth, so you can know in what way to fight for your child. If you don’t have all of the information you can not make a rational and informed judgment. Let me know when you’ve talked to the teacher.


Example:
I went to pick my kids up at the babysitter’s house the other day. She has even said that my kids are angels compared to her brats. I know that I have fairly well behaved children. When I got there, I did not see my oldest so I called to him. I hear what makes every parents heart stop. He started yelling and crying and telling me to please help him. I ran to the back room to find a shoelace tied to his neck with the other end tied to the bed rail. It was so tight that I could only fit one finger between his neck and the shoe lace. His babysitter came in and freaked out when she saw me untying it. She took her oldest son and spanked him and put him on the couch. She then said he would get no desert that night and would not be getting any more cowboy movies, period. He was crying and saying he didn’t do it when I left. In the car, I looked at my son and asked if it was really her son who did it. He gave a definitive yes. I told him to tell me the truth, and he still said that it was her son. I then said, “Alright, I’m going to believe you, because I know you would not lie to me.” I then told my husband about it when he got home. He looked at Sterling and said, “Did you do it to yourself?” My son gave the little shrug that means ‘yes’. My husband asked him again, and finally my son admitted that he had done it to himself. I made him get in the car and we drove back to the babysitter’s house. He spent the whole trip begging and pleading for me not to tell her the truth. He cried all the way to the front door and begged me to tell them. I held my ground and made him apologize himself.
I wanted to believe him so bad. The knot looked like it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for him to do to himself. I would not have questioned it further, but my husband had information that I did not. He had gotten onto my son for putting a belt around his neck a few days before.

 

[snafu]

I don’t see a problem with that. DNA is the one thing that is unique for everyone. It has exonerated the innocent and convicted the guilty. I think everyone souled have to have their DNA on file in a national data base. I still haven’t heard of a good reason why this should’t be done.

Which of your liberties are you trying to protect by keeping finger prints and DNA off file.

I have to agree with this. Lethal are you worried the Gestapo is gonna round up certain kids for what ever gene they might have? I don't see any reason to worry unless you think your kid's gonna be a criminal and you are thinking ahead.

To have DNA on file can only help the innocent!

And yes I don't believe it's possible or this teacher had the knowledge to use a microscope to determine who's finger prints are who's.

Lighten up for God's sake. Your the Liberals that want life sterile. IT WON'T HAPPEN!

I'm offended blabalalalalaaa

 

[Lethalfind]

I believe in my constitutional rights to having certain things kept private. I wasn't given a choice if my own childs DNA was taken to be put on file. I can't believe you all actually think this is a good idea. I don't.

As for the fingerprints, I spoke with the vice principal and she is getting the full story for me. I don't believe the teacher had any one analyze the prints, I should have made that clear, I think this is a scare tactic, pure and simple. Can you imagine the time it would have taken to analyze 38 fingerprints by hand even if the person was trained?

I completely agree with those programs where they can fingerprint your child and take something so you will have a DNA sample should something terrible happen in the future. HOWEVER, it should be something you volunteer to do and something you keep on file yourself.

I want less involvement in my life where the government is concerned not more. The government deciding they need blood samples of all newborns on file for their DNA is just a little too Orwellian for my taste.

When official entities start taking liberties with our children do you know where it will stop?? I don't but I will watch them closely.
I don't use scare tactics at home with Diane and I don't want that kind of thing being used on her at school. Just the fact that the Vice Principal was not aware of this tactic worries me a bit. I would think that different approaches to child discipline should be something that should be discussed in their meetings instead of the teacher throwing them out there on the fly.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...To have DNA on file can only help the innocent!...

Absolutely!

Furthermore, this is why it is now time for a NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION CARD.

No more ****ing problems identifying people or illegal aliens, or anyone for that matter.

Your NATIONAL IDENTITY card should have a microchip with your personal information, SSN, DOB, fingerprint record and DNA record and a new photo taken every 3 years.

Make it a requirement for obtaining a drivers license, unemployment benefits, public assistance, welfare, Social Security benefits, anything. It should be the identification of the land.

The only people who complain are the ones who don't want to be honest citizens.

**** Em.

 

[manicmonday]

Absolutely!

Furthermore, this is why it is now time for a NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION CARD.

No more ****ing problems identifying people or illegal aliens, or anyone for that matter.

Your NATIONAL IDENTITY card should have a microchip with your personal information, SSN, DOB, fingerprint record and DNA record and a new photo taken every 3 years.

Make it a requirement for obtaining a drivers license, unemployment benefits, public assistance, welfare, Social Security benefits, anything. It should be the identification of the land.

The only people who complain are the ones who don't want to be honest citizens.

**** Em.

Sounds great in theory CES, but I am deeply afraid of the government who wants this much involvement in it's people's lives. I don't believe in anarchy, but I do be in deregulation of the government. It's not about being honest or dishonest, it's about privacy. I still enjoy it, I'm sorry you don't think it's so expendable.

 

[Lethalfind]

Sounds great in theory CES, but I am deeply afraid of the government who wants this much involvement in it's people's lives. I don't believe in anarchy, but I do be in deregulation of the government. It's not about being honest or dishonest, it's about privacy. I still enjoy it, I'm sorry you don't think it's so expendable.

Finally a person who is on the same planet as I am.
What I find interesting is that so often moderators will espouse an idea in a thread when they really don't feel that way...so who knows how CES really feels. I have had moderators slate me in a thread and then give me rep for the same thing they have given me **** about. Pretty pointless unless they just like to read what they type...

 

[builder]

We vetoed the last attempt to introduce a national ID card years back. It's on the table again.

What about counterfeiters, CES? Seems that anything can be counterfeited these days. That will lead to a push for micro-chipping, or bar-coding.

I'm not cool with it at all.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Finally a person who is on the same planet as I am.
What I find interesting is that so often moderators will espouse an idea in a thread when they really don't feel that way...so who knows how CES really feels. I have had moderators slate me in a thread and then give me rep for the same thing they have given me **** about. Pretty pointless unless they just like to read what they type...

Rep is not about agreement or disagreement. It's supposed to be given to that which causes you to stop and think about what was said. Was it presented in such a good way as to grab your attention; even more so if you disagree with the content but admire the style of presentation.

That's the real purpose of Rep as I see it.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sounds great in theory CES, but I am deeply afraid of the government who wants this much involvement in it's people's lives. I don't believe in anarchy, but I do be in deregulation of the government. It's not about being honest or dishonest, it's about privacy. I still enjoy it, I'm sorry you don't think it's so expendable.

I love privacy very much. I am a private person and live my life that way.

However, I already have a drivers license. The DMV in California has a record of my fingerprint as it is required to get a license.

My Ohio license has my SSN and DOB, signature and photograph.

The only two components not recorded in that little license is my complete fingerprints and DNA.

This information could be encoded on a microchip. I have no problems with it.

I've maintained for years that the way to stop identity theft is to require an electronic thumbprint in addition to a signature. Proof of who made the transaction.

It would be impossible for people to try and rip off your identity without leaving a trace.

Besides, do you really think the government doesn't know where you are, where you live, your phone number, your SSN, DOB, your credit profile and credit records, etc? Of course they do. Big deal. It means nothing unless you are a criminal or a bad citizen who owes taxes and stuff like that.

If you were EVER in the military, they have a complete set of fingerprints, dental records, and blood type on you.

Privacy in today's society is more a function of how you conduct yourself in relationship to the public at large, not in terms of what information the government has on you. They already have almost everything.

I'm with Tori on this one. A national DNA database would exonerate the innocent, punish the guilty, and make it impossible to hide if you were a wanted person.

I guess I'm asking you to define for me what you think you have that is personal now that you would lose?

 

[wardmd]

Absolutely!

Furthermore, this is why it is now time for a NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION CARD.

No more ****ing problems identifying people or illegal aliens, or anyone for that matter.

Your NATIONAL IDENTITY card should have a microchip with your personal information, SSN, DOB, fingerprint record and DNA record and a new photo taken every 3 years.

Make it a requirement for obtaining a drivers license, unemployment benefits, public assistance, welfare, Social Security benefits, anything. It should be the identification of the land.

The only people who complain are the ones who don't want to be honest citizens.

**** Em.

Holy ****! CES... You and I are on the same page on this one!

Screw the ACLU!

Hell, we give our fingerprint (here in California, only our thumb print) and our picture when we get a Drivers license. Then think of all of the electronic information about you which is tracked by the various sources (Credit Card usage, cell phone locations [cells used], etc.).

Granted, this information is (or so we believe) "owned" by private parties (and that "Big Brother" has to get a warrant to get it [or, at least to USE it against you).

Personally, I don't give a **** if "Big Brother" knows where I go, and what I do ('cause I'm not breaking the law)...

Of course people who try to get away with everything they can are opposed to having a cop on every corner, but the rest of us would just as soon have all you law breakers off the streets...

As to the topic at hand...

You know, if the dip-**** punk who actually BROKE THE ****ING PENCIL simply admitted their error (or, heaven forbid, actually informed the teacher of the "problem" in the first place) - NONE of this Finger-Print crap would have come up at all..

It is, after all, the STUPID, PUNK kid (who refuses to take responsibility for their own actions) which is the CAUSE of the problem...

Yeah, the teacher probably over reacted, but I don't give a **** if every kid is finger printed... But, the bottom line STILL is, that the stupid punk KID is the one who caused the problem...

It would be one thing if he/she super-glued a pencil into the sharpener, but a simple broken pencil - give me a break...

If my kid broke a pencil in a shapener, and told the teacher - and THEN the teacher had a fit (over the broken pencil) - THEN I'd have a field day with that teacher (I LOVE giving teachers and administrators **** when they go over the edge)...

FYI, BOTH of my grandmothers were teachers, my mother was a teacher, and my sister IS a teacher...

 

[tiredofwhiners]

Ok i have to admit i'm seeing the light on this one. I still don't agree with the teacher using threats for a broken pencil, but to solve crimes and put the right people away maybe it's not so bad.

 

[Lethalfind]

I just got off the phone with the principle. She apologized profusely, she stated the story as was told to me by my daughter was correct. The teachers did in fact fingerprint all the students (38) with the intent of frightening one of them into admitting who had broken their pencil off in the pencil sharpener. The fingerprints were thrown away at the time. The bigger issue to me here is that the teachers have that little control of their class that they have to use this kind of intimidation tactic.
The principle assured me that this was innappropriate and would never happen again, the teachers have been admonished on this fact. The principle agreed that this should never have happened. She offered to have the teachers themselves call me to apologize. I told her this was not necessary.
I told her that in the future Diane is thought to have done something she shouldn't I would prefer they call me rather then taking this approach with her.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Holy ****! CES... You and I are on the same page on this one!

Screw the ACLU!...

See..see...common ground. Worse things have happened!