You're not buying this "competition" horsesh!t are you?

[RoyalOrleans]

I can rebut that in one sentence for every complaint you have about it.

BUY HEALTH INSURANCE.

I have and I will continue.

Don't want rationing, and long lines.. buy health insurance. Unemployed, your kids are hungry, and you just know your not gonna

If I did have children, I would do everything in my power to continue whatever coverage they had before I lost my job.

Only the best for my children. I don't care what you do with yours.

EVEN THOUGH your out of a job, then BUY HEALTH INSURANCE, come on, even though your unemployed, you can afford it. Remember, you are ultimately obligated to take care of your own **** self.

Absolutely I am obligated to provide for me and mine. I would continue to pay for my family's coverage! It's making sacrifices to provide for the family. It's cutting expenses, saving, clipping coupons, et.al.

The problem is, most of you supporters of government run healthcare don't want to give up certain things to provide for your family.

Sure my children are sick and malnourished, but I've absolutely got to have my high speed internet access and my big screen television!

Afraid of competition being tossed out?

No I'm afraid of the kind of people who run the government funded health care system. After the initial push, the employees will become nothing more than a rabble of looters, affirmative action thugs, hoodrats, and folk simply too stupid to work anywhere else.

BUY HEALTH INSURANCE. Keep em in business.

I fully intend to.

CONTINUE TO LEECH OFF THE GOVERNMENT'S ***. Keep the government in every aspect of your life. Your children have such a role model.

The funniest part about Nebraska, is the majority of people who complain about the governments version of caring for them, can usually be found in waiting lines at the store with their Nebraska food debt card complaining about socialism, illegals, and liberals.
Makes me wonder if it's like that in the other states as well.

.

.

Oh yeah... it's rabid.

And these same hypocrites don't vote, either.

 

[phreakwars]

Gotta love all those easier said then done answers you just gave with no way of saying HOW you'd get it done. Truth be told, when it came down to it, you'd be hanging out at the soup line waiting for your own bowl to get filled as well. Saving your anti government complaints for later when your home and nobody is none the wiser.

.

.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Gotta love all those easier said then done answers you just gave with no way of saying HOW you'd get it done. Truth be told, when it came down to it, you'd be hanging out at the soup line waiting for your own bowl to get filled as well. Saving your anti government complaints for later when your home and nobody is none the wiser..

.

If I want soup, I shall make my own soup. I will not lick the government spoon, but there I can't speak for everyone.

And regardless of your little assumptions there, Bendy, I am not anti-government. If I sound anti-government it is because, I favor small government run by the few that represent their constituencies.

 

[timesjoke]

My thoughts on health care are STILL felt by the MAJORITY of people and that's all I need. Doesn't matter how many ANTI-PUBLIC HEALTH complaints you wanna try debating. Democrats STILL win. HAHA.

America was never meant to be operated on a principle of "mob rule".

You keep dodging my questions.

Can you admit that even the Canadian suppreme court found that waiting lines were killing Canadians?

You debate from an absense of facts and rely on emotional urges for taking care of the lazy as if that alone is a good enough reason to ignore the fact that government controlled healthcare equals worse medical care for everyone like people pulling their own teeth from home because they can't wait 6 months with the pain and no treatment.

 

[emkay64]

America was never meant to be operated on a principle of "mob rule".

You keep dodging my questions.

Can you admit that even the Canadian suppreme court found that waiting lines were killing Canadians?

You debate from an absense of facts and rely on emotional urges for taking care of the lazy as if that alone is a good enough reason to ignore the fact that government controlled health care equals worse medical care for everyone like people pulling their own teeth from home because they can't wait 6 months with the pain and no treatment.

That's hilarious!

I live here...if I need a filling or a fukking tooth pulled I go today. Seriously...you don't live here so shut the *** up already! If I need a doctor's appt...I go today to a walk in clinic or I can go today to see my own doctor. If I need to see a specialist I may wait a month. If it's emergent like a friend I have with breast cancer...she has waited a week and will have her surgery tomorrow. You may have a few loons that wanna extract their own teeth, but they sure do not need to wait. In any place you are going to have some horror stories regarding the healthcare system, but all in all it does not reflect the majority. Your system has no doubt killed it's fair share of people with HMOs looking for ways they don't have to pay out, and I bet more than a few have died in a waiting room waiting for that insurance to clear. As far as doctor shortages...that may be true...they may wanna make millions more and if that's the case move on. Things still seem to be good for me....but I'm not a big whiny, *** complainer that thinks I need to see a doctor on demand. I can wait an hour if I have to...geez!

Find a new example...because I have never had an issue here.

I might also add...I'm not suggesting that this system is for Americans...please feel free to do whatever y'all want. I'm saying...it has worked for me, and my family...and friends. In actuality neither country should be adopting either model of current health care. Both need some amendments. However...I'd rather have mine than yours. If doctors wanna go to the States...well get going!

 

[timesjoke]

If waiting lines are not bad why did your own suppreme court say the waiting lists were killing Canadians? I think your not being honest about this Emkay.

Wait Time Alliance

http://www.waittimealliance.ca/June2009/Report-card-June2009_e.pdf

In the above report it shows clear massive waiting times where the majority of Canadians wait more than 18 weeks for many treatments.

Using your breast cancer example:

Median Wait Time for Curative Cancer Care in Canada for breast cancer is almost 60 days wait, that can be the difference between life and death or even the difference between saving a woman's breast or having to remove it.

Why are so many Canadian people comming to America for treatments?

Why is it even their government is sending patients they cannot treat to America such as many premature births and heart problems that they cannot treat in their own hospitals?

 

[emkay64]

TJ....

Yes...there are wait times. People wait...and I'm sure some have died waiting...and yes the supreme court admits problems. Wow....what a concept...Canadian government admitting there are problems..how unusual. I'm saying...that I am 35...my family is riddled with cancer...recent emergencies, and a lifetime of this same care policy.

I can only use direct examples as proof. My friend was diagnosed with stage one breast cancer...however the form is fast growing apparently. It took one week for her to get her surgery date.

My dad is having both knees replaced..it is not emergent...just painful...he's waited six months (because he's rescheduled twice due to farming)..and is not complaining. My daughter Emily waited a year for a non-emergent tonsillectomy, no problem.

Craig got in for emergent facial reconstruction immediately no waiting. We walked in and walked out...no bill. Keep in mind he had 6 facial CT's, one brain CT, 4 nights in hospital, facial reconstruction, titanium plates, and 2 neuro consults).

My daughter Kayley got in immediately for complications involving asthma.

I recently had a filling and crown replaced all in two days.

Yes...we wait...but we all get seen...and I don't have to declare bankrupcy to pay.

Craig's boss does go to the States for his heart surgery and mri's and he's a multimillionaire that has costs in the million dollar range for his health care in the states (he really enjoys talking about what everything costs rolls eyes )Yes he can afford to pay for an immediate surgery...but really TJ...many can't. Keep in mind the heart surgeons here are qualified lol. He just doesn't like being told when his surgery will be. Fine...go pay...no problem.

I realize this is Wikipedia...but as far as what Canadian health care covers it is spot on. The wait times are fairly accurate...but most I know...have been earlier, maybe due to the emergent nature. I don't disagree that waits can be irritating, but seriously...no one I know is complaining. I am saying that both have issues...neither plan should replace another. I'm just saying I like ours better. I'm also saying pick a new model for ty health care in your inept arguments, because it isn't holding water. Maybe propose a new model instead of ******** about one you personally know nothing about. For everyone I know...they seem happy with it. I know of no one pulling their own teeth, nor do I know anyone who died in a waiting room. Oh...and preemies and heart problems can be taken care of here lol. My cousin Lonnie was born with (I don't know the term)...but a hole in his aorta. He had open heart surgery at 3...and also at 16...and he had his surgeries here. We DO have qualified doctors believe it or not lol.

Canadian and American health care systems compared - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[timesjoke]

Why would you think a wiki post as more accurate then the official study I already posted that put the average wait times at 18 weeks or more?

Maybe because your own Canadian studies are very critical of it's healthcare?

You have a shortage of nurses, a shortage of doctors so bad your dropping immergation standards to try and get doctors from other under developed Countries because your own people don't want those jobs.......why?

Just tell me this, why do you have an annual big meeting called the "Taming of the Queue" if there are no massive waiting lists?

There are litterally thousands of these stories:

CP24- Parents separated from baby after transfer to US hospital because they lack passports - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

HAMILTON ? A critically-ill premature-born baby from Hamilton is all alone in a Buffalo, N.Y., hospital after she was turned away for treatment at local facility and transferred across the border without her parents, who don't have passports.
Ava Stinson was born Thursday at St. Joseph's Hospital, 14 weeks premature.

A provincewide search for an open neonatal intensive care unit bed came up empty, leaving no choice but to send the two pound, four ounce baby to Buffalo.

Her parents Natalie Paquette and Richard Stinson couldn't follow their child because as of June 1, a passport is required to cross the border into the United States.

They're having to approve medical procedures over the phone and are terrified something will happen to their baby before they get there.

The Canadian Consulate in Buffalo is providing advice and guidance to the first-time parents, and their local MP, New Democrat David Christopherson, is working to arrange emergency passports.

But that will take until at least Monday afternoon and the situation is complicated by the fact the baby's dad has a criminal record.

"I just want to be with her," said Paquette.

"She only knows my heartbeat, my voice and her daddy's voice. It's all I can think about. I feel so helpless."

So my question is an easy one, once America switches, Canada will no longer have this safety net they have been getting by with for over 20 years. What do you guys do then?

 

[emkay64]

Why would you think a wiki post as more accurate then the official study I already posted that put the average wait times at 18 weeks or more?
Maybe because your own Canadian studies are very critical of it's healthcare?

You have a shortage of nurses, a shortage of doctors so bad your dropping immergation standards to try and get doctors from other under developed Countries because your own people don't want those jobs.......why?

Just tell me this, why do you have an annual big meeting called the "Taming of the Queue" if there are no massive waiting lists?

There are litterally thousands of these stories:

CP24- Parents separated from baby after transfer to US hospital because they lack passports - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

So my question is an easy one, once America switches, Canada will no longer have this safety net they have been getting by with for over 20 years. What do you guys do then?

Sigh...I never said we don't have problems...I admitted that we admit our problems. I said I don't think either country should adopt either countries' policies. I said personally I like ours and for 35 years it has worked nicely for ME and MINE! You can site thousands of examples as I'm sure there are thousands of examples of crappy health care in the States. Why do you want to fight so bad...because I'm happy with what I have? Too bad...deal with it.

As far as Americans switching over to a universal health care system that no one has defined and this so called safety net thing you are babbling about, you'll have to be more specific because I'm not sure what you are dithering about. I don't think anyone said that Americans would be converting to the exact same system Canadians have...I would hope they would be making changes for the better, but whatever. Explain this safety net thing and what exactly Americans are converting to (because I have no idea)...and then I can better respond.

 

[timesjoke]

Sigh...I never said we don't have problems...I admitted that we admit our problems. I said I don't think either country should adopt either countries' policies. I said personally I like ours and for 35 years it has worked nicely for ME and MINE! You can site thousands of examples as I'm sure there are thousands of examples of crappy health care in the States. Why do you want to fight so bad...because I'm happy with what I have? Too bad...deal with it.

You tried to state there was no issue with waiting lines, you gave examples of just walking in to get any treatment you wanted.

I offered facts that prove you were not being honest about your waiting times...I am not wanting to fight, just wanting to discuss things from a fact basis. I find it hard to believe you have no personal experience with waiting times when it is listed as Canada's biggest domestic problem for several years running but I will be happy to call you the exception, not the rule.

Your happy with a system that rations healthcare to the point people die waiting for their medical care.......I do not want that for America or my loved ones so when Bender says he wants to have a Canadian system for America I offer my reasons for not wanting the Government involved in healthcare.

As far as Americans switching over to a universal health care system that no one has defined and this so called safety net thing you are babbling about, you'll have to be more specific because I'm not sure what you are dithering about. I don't think anyone said that Americans would be converting to the exact same system Canadians have...I would hope they would be making changes for the better, but whatever. Explain this safety net thing and what exactly Americans are converting to (because I have no idea)...and then I can better respond.

I posted a link and story about the safety net America provides for Canada.

Every year thousands of patients are sent to American hospitals because the Canadian system cannot handle them. In the story I just posted All of Canada did not have a place for this premature baby to go so it had to be sent to America to receive care.....that is called a safety net.

With all things there are steps, once our Government crosses the line to get into private medical issues they will keep finding new excuses to "improve" it just like they do with everything else. Today it is Government run healthcare that eventually runs all private insurance out of business because most of their customer base has been removed. The next step is discovering that they do not have the tax money to pay out all the claims so they will have two choices.

1 - Raise taxes severely to fund the Government insurance......

2 - Reduce costs from reduced payouts to providers or restrict access to some treatments.

I personally believe we will see higher taxes at first but when it is clear that they cannot raise taxes enough to properly fund something like this without major changes.....they will then turn to forcing down what doctors can charge for treatments. That I believe will cause many doctors to get out of the business, just like what is happening in Canada.

 

[emkay64]

Whatever TJ...you are content to skew everything to your warped way of thinking. I said we have issues...but so do you! A lot of issues. I'm saying it has been good for me. Great actually. I can just walk in to a walk in clinic. I did just walk Craig in with his face smashed and get treatment. My friend went in for a mammogram and had her biopsy in the course of a month and got her surgery in a week. If it's emergent I've never had a case where I had to wait. Maybe I'm lucky. I'm sorry if this is all ******* you off or that you believe everything you read as gospel. I'm saying for everyone I know it has been fine...we aren't complaining. There is lots of literature on both systems being fukked so what are you fighting for?

As far as that safety net bull ...I've never used it and neither has my family. Besides I hardly call paying in excess of $300, 000 for a procedure a safety net...but whatever. If you love your system that's fukking fantastic. I'm saying that you can spout all kinds of literature about the Canadian system sucking and that's fine...but I'm Canadian...I live here...and I like it. I don't doubt that there have been atrocities of all kinds...but it doesn't only happen on one side of the border lol. I agreed that waiting can be annoying...but you guys fukking wait all the time too...so give me a break. Only an uneducated fool can't admit to problems with a system. I don't believe it's perfect....never said I did...just said I liked "what we have to date" better and your stupid "tooth pulling" example was reaching even for you.

So in response...no safety net...no problem! Not for me! Just wanted you to know that not every one here is crying in our beers over the health care system.

 

[phreakwars]

I know I'd rather deal with the issues of a Canadian medical policy then an American one. You won't lose your home and find yourself in debt till your dead in Canada.

And who ever said we wanted to adopt the Canadian plan anyway? How bout we Adopt England's plan, or Australia's?, or France?

I don't hear none of them ********.

In the American system, Capitalism rules over care. No other country puts a price tag on the health of it's citizens like America does. And for that, I am ashamed of this country. America will actually dump an elderly person with dementia who can't pay in the street and leave them to fend for themselves. THIS is the kind of great care TJ is so proud of in America?

.

.

 

[timesjoke]

Well you bvoth love to be untruthful with your comments and I guess that is to be expected when your only objective is on thing reguadrless what the facts say.

Emkay, for you to claim there are no waiting times problems but your entire Country from the suppreme court to local doctors all saying there is a massive problem shows your not willing to be honest. What I posted was not idle gossip from unreliable sources, it was hard facts provided by the medical facilities themselves.

You refuse to address the massive shortage for doctors, estimated to reach 10,000 short in the next few years as well as the severe shortage of nurses.

You refuse to even admit many Canadian medical needs are shipped to America like the premature baby story I just posted because Canada just cannot keep up with the needs of their Nation.

Why?

Because they are run and controlled by the Government, there is no incentive to excell or be innovative because you get the same pay either way so just sit back and do the minimum. Sure many care, but how many people work for free? How long with you be over worked and underpaid before you begin to get jaded?

Yes, America does have it's problems but it is not as bad as most claim. You speak of not waiting for emergency care and guess what, neither does any American. Everyone gets emergency care reguardless of their abulity to pay.

The poor all get free medical care, in the numbers offered for those without medical coverage they include people on Government programs that offer free medical treatments so it is not like these people are not getting medical care, they are getting great medical care.

The last big number offered as "Americans" without health care are not actually Americans, they are illegals who are here using our system to get free care sure, but they are not insured or on the welfare systems yet so they go to the emergency room and just don't pay the bills. Any system Obama creats will still have that problem to deal with.

I am not angry or otherwise upset, I just find it interesting that you guys hide behind such untrue flowery comments about "free" medical systems when every "free" system out there has long waiting lines and people suffering while they wait.

I guess my question is are we America or a socialist Nation? Canada, Europe, Cuba, all Nations with "free" healthcare are socialist or communist. Is that what we really want?

 

[ImWithStupid]

I know I'd rather deal with the issues of a Canadian medical policy then an American one. You won't lose your home and find yourself in debt till your dead in Canada.
And who ever said we wanted to adopt the Canadian plan anyway? How bout we Adopt England's plan, or Australia's?, or France?

I don't hear none of them ********.

In the American system, Capitalism rules over care. No other country puts a price tag on the health of it's citizens like America does. And for that, I am ashamed of this country. America will actually dump an elderly person with dementia who can't pay in the street and leave them to fend for themselves. THIS is the kind of great care TJ is so proud of in America?

.

.

http://Off Topic Forum.com/on-topic-bs/34832-this-really-frightens-me.html

First hand account from someone in GB posted February 18th...

I am ****** off, fed up, depressed, miserable and just HAD ENOUGH! I'm not asking for sympathy, just letting you know what's going in in my life.
Since just before Christmas I've been ill, very ill really to the point that I've lost about 20lbs by simply not being able to eat. This is especially horrible due to the fact that THIS year was going to be a good one after the repulsiveness of last year.

I've been messed about by the docs and the hospital, had some godawful tests and loads of dead ends, until finally, today, I got a bit of a diagnosis....I have polyps in my gall bladder.

I feel like , nauseous and like I can't eat more than a few mouthfuls of anything. It actually feels as if my stomach has shrunk to the size of a tennis ball. Doing anything leaves me tired and breathless due to being horribly anaemic. I look like , pale and washed out and just ill. I'm lonely as **** because I don't have any friends around here (I'm usually at work all day).

I can't go anywhere because I get sick in the car. I NEVER get sick, but this seems to just make me want to throw up however I move. Even walking more than a few yards is NOT good! I'm sleeping 13+ hours a day and worn out for the rest of it.

I want to go back to work, to have MY life back....but I can't get a specialist's appointment until 30th March! It's all taking too long and I hate it.

I'm starting to wonder if I have a target on my head saying 'Please here'.

Argh!

So anyway, if I don't seem to be my usual self....this is why.

http://www.2thejungle.com/postview_6256.asp
Rationed, single payer, health care.

Single payer plans on a mass scale, always put a "price tag on the health of their citizens". And in your analogy about the old person with dementia, out on the streets, that would be the failed Medicare plan, in place, that they plan on modeling the "government option" off of.

I will admit that I wouldn't doubt that the system works in places like Australia and New Zealand. There are a lot of social programs that are quite possible in countries with low populations. New Zealand has about 4.5 million people, Australia with 22 million people compared to the 300 million citizens plus 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants.

 

[phreakwars]

Are you serious?

I want to go back to work, to have MY life back....but I can't get a specialist's appointment until 30th March! It's all taking too long and I hate it.

You think that's a Canada only problem? My daughter needs to see the specialist up in Omaha for her eyes (yet again), we have to wait 3 months (yet again), because that's the earliest he can get her in. AND I HAVE GOOD COVERAGE.
Don't give me that BS about Canada's wait times when America is no better... in fact, we are worse.., I'm sure you have heard the emergency room horror stories. After that stupid *** wait just to get her eyes worked on, I then get a huge *** bill. In Canada I wouldn't. I'll take her wait any time.

.

.

 

[timesjoke]

The waiting times are ten times as long in Canada, don't take my word for it, look at the official studies and the "Taming of the Queue" meetings they have every year, and the Canadian suppreme court that all agree that the waiting times in Canada are killing Canadians.

If you have great insurance but can't get an appointment it is a problem with the doctor, not the insurance. In our system you are able to shop around and look for a better doctor but under Obamacare, there will no longer be competition for your business and everyone will make the same money for the same treatments so no reason to offer you better service because your trapped to take what they give you.

We will lose about 70% of our doctors just like Canada, Europe, Denmark, Cuba, everywhere the Government tries to get in the way of medical treatment, there is low quality care with long waiting lines........I do not want that system myself, why must most of Americans lose great medical treatment just because a few lazy people want free medical treatments?

 

[phreakwars]

Didn't I cover that and answer that once before. Americans will still have the option of PRIVATE PRACTITIONERS who ONLY cater to the insured. It's as simple as that.

It gives people a reason to buy health coverage, and gives them a choice in their health care.

.

.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Are you serious?
You think that's a Canada only problem? My daughter needs to see the specialist up in Omaha for her eyes (yet again), we have to wait 3 months (yet again), because that's the earliest he can get her in. AND I HAVE GOOD COVERAGE.

Don't give me that BS about Canada's wait times when America is no better... in fact, we are worse.., I'm sure you have heard the emergency room horror stories. After that stupid *** wait just to get her eyes worked on, I then get a huge *** bill. In Canada I wouldn't. I'll take her wait any time.

.

.

No, that's why it's a story from Great Britain (GB)

Just like this one is.

Doctors and other medical staff claim widespread "ambulance warehousing" of patients is an attempt by managers to meet targets for waiting times. Patients who are left in car parks outside hospitals do not count on waiting time statistics.They only become "official" once they are in a hospital building. They must then be treated within four hours.

The British Medical Association (BMA) reported to MPs last week that hospital managers are using ambulances to massage their waiting time figures. "If the patients are unloaded [from ambulances], the clock starts ticking in A&E," the BMA said.

Hospital chiefs privately admit that there is a link between pressure from Alan Milburn, the health secretary, to cut hospital waiting times and a surge of ambulance "delays".

"People are obviously exploiting this loophole to make the figures look less bad," said one.

Across the country at least half of all ambulances are failing to meet the 15-minute turn-round target for delivering emergency patients to hospital, and ambulance paramedics often have to act as nurses in over-stretched casualty departments.

Paramedics report queues of up to a dozen ambulances waiting outside hospitals with their engines running. Crews are unable to attend other emergencies because they are having to care for patients. Recent incidents include:

• [ ]A 64-year-old woman who had collapsed in pain with a suspected tumour having to wait in an ambulance outside Queen Alexandra hospital, Cosham, Hampshire, for three hours.
  [ ]A 30-year-old man suffering fits and convulsions having to be cared for by ambulance staff for 5? hours before being allowed into Bristol Royal Infirmary.
  [ ]Ambulance crews changing shifts while looking after a patient for seven hours outside Birmingham City hospital. Mark Weatherhead, general secretary of the Association of Professional Ambulance Personnel, said ambulance warehousing had reached crisis levels even before the onset of the coldest weather of the winter.
  

"We are having waits of up to nine hours, which means ambulances are not available for other emergencies," he said.

"We can't say how many people have died as a result, but if we were able to meet our target of an eight-minute emergency response time, survival rates would be greater."

Sick kept in ambulances in bed crisis - Times Online

 

[emkay64]

Hmmm...

I believe in getting what you work for absolutely. I don't agree with getting a free ride. I don't care about whether or not a person had the opportunity for education or whatever. I think that the rich should have luxuries if they earn them...that's all fine and dandy. To me though...just based on principles....I would want to help people that are sick or hurt. Just the same if I came across an accident or what have you I would not base whether I help out based on whether or not they could shell out some cash for me. There are a lot of people and children (who have no control) that cannot afford health insurance. I don't mind some socialism in this regard...at least I know where SOME of my taxes are going.

I don't mind paying into health care because we all need it. TJ is narrowing his view to waiting...I already said in at least three posts we HAVE to wait!!!! I said that already...I said we have problems, I said I'm sure some die in waiting rooms...I never discounted his preemie article I'm sure it happened. I'm saying BOTH have issues and that Canada has always taken care of us. I've never been to the states for medical procedures.

http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm

David Ambroz: The Health Insurance Industrial Complex

NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs

(since we all need to discredit everyone's health care....good grief!)

TJ is unwilling to accept that I like it. That my personal examples are lies. It is apparently painful to his psyche that I could be okay with waiting a little...or putting someone more needy ahead of me. Sorry TJ...I just don't have a big problem here. Your sources are credible sure...but they don't reflect my experiences at all...nor my friends. I never once said we never wait for anything...sure we do...but when it counted we got the care we needed. If surgery is elective here you are going to wait. I guess maybe for some the wait time is a huge issue...but lots of people complain. Believe me if it was terrible I would complain...maybe I just don't think it's so bad. I'm disappointed that you feel my personal experiences are lies...but my experience is all I have to go on.

And...

as far as Taming of the Queue...a useless endeavor. I'm sure your government is guilty of many useless meetings and expenditures.

Anyways...I'm all through here...this got way drawn out when all I wanted to say was that it wasn't so bad here. I'm happy with it. I said specifically it isn't the greatest, it isn't perfect but I wanted some to acknowledge that both countries need some changes. As usual it's a full on attack and no one listens.

 

[timesjoke]

Didn't I cover that and answer that once before. Americans will still have the option of PRIVATE PRACTITIONERS who ONLY cater to the insured. It's as simple as that.
It gives people a reason to buy health coverage, and gives them a choice in their health care.

.

.

You tried to offer a fairy tale excuse but your wrong.

I covered your claim before and you dodged my point.

Insurance companies require a very wide stance to operate. The Government will remove about 95% of the customer base so there is no way a private insurance company will be able to survive, besides, where will the people go with their insurance anyway?

Canadians who won the right to have private insurance come to America, Americans do not have an America to run off to, there will not be enough private hospitals to survive the price wars (caused by the Government pressuring lower costs) to be able to stay in business.

Sure there will be a few still around to take care fo the "rich" but the middle class will not have an option other than the "free" system.

You missing the point of how a free enterprise system works Bender. The Government will be operating at a massive loss. They will be running trillions of dollars in the hole every year while private insurance companies must make a profit to stay in business. The disparity will be too large.

The only chance for private medical insurance to survive once America turnes to "free medical" care is for big global insurance companies to try and offer a group rate based on all the socialized medicine Nations banded together, but I doubt you could get enough people to all agree on the details.

Emkay,

The only issue I have from you is you downplaying how big the waiting times are. Even if your stories of never having to wait more than a week are true, that does not discount the factual reports I posted where even your suppreme court says your system is killing Canadians because of massive waiting times, and no amount of wishful thinking on your part can change what is reality.

Oh by the way, you can't upset me, your clearly not being honest so your just disreguarded by me by posting facts that prove your wrong.

You claim there is no safety net but I prove there is one with stories of how youre system is turning patients away to America for care they cannot provide....that is a safety net, but you can't admit it.

Oh yes, let me add my links are facts, yours are opinion pieces from people who "WANT" the free system, of course they are going to say what you want them to say.

The only thing keeping out medical ratings as an induntrial Nation down is illegal immegration that messes up our numbers. If you remove the illegals who are sick and die in America we have some of the best numbers in the World for quality of health.