You're not buying this "competition" horsesh!t are you?

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emkay64

New member
HAHAHA...oh dear...it's Quebec. We never include Quebec in everything...it's like the red headed orphan child of Canada. They are a bunch of loony, rude separatists. It's the desire of most Canadians that they separate, become their own country and freeze in the dark.

You should also realize that everything is not free. The health insurance people buy or that employers provide, "help" to cover things that our provincial health insurance doesn't. So provincial covers all hospital, doctor visits, and surgical stuff. That is all free.

Dental is not covered at all by provincial health care you need extra...so our additional insurance covers 80% of dental care...and we are free to go wherever we want to get it. Drugs and medications are not free...most times your GP will give freebie meds if they have samples...but the vast majority of us pay the remainder not covered and buy it. Eye care is not free...you pay for an appt...and for your glasses and whatever but again...the additional insurance covers most of it. Massages and sessions with a shrink also not covered.

So...here's the deal. If you want corrective eye surgery you pay...if complications arise and you end up in the hospital...you don't pay. You are not refused basic health care and it is provided free regardless of your past health conditions and you are free to choose your doctor. So if your care falls away from the hospital, basically you pay. Everything isn't "free"...lol.

I liked his cowboy hat! It isn't a pre-requisite for entry though lol.

 
timesjoke

timesjoke

Active Members
But what about the lady who lost both her legs waiting for treatment Emkay?

That is part of what you say is free but it is only free if you can get the treatment while your waiting. While your waiting your not getting any treatment, your instead getting "NO" treatment during the wait.

This was my point to you before. While you may have all sweet and jucy treatment in your small area, the wider range of the general medical care for all Canadians is much, much different than what your talking about.

The average Canadian is suffering greatly from your "free" healthcare. Did you see two nurses tell the guys they better go use the paid system? Why would they do that emkay if there were no problems as you keep saying?

One person told the guy he would have to wait two years to get a doctor but that was okay because he was young and did not need medical care. Really? The young do not need any care?

I just do not see how anyone can look at that system where a woman must lose her legs because it takes over a year to help her and say it is not broken.

 
Chi

Chi

New member
But what about the lady who lost both her legs waiting for treatment Emkay?
That is part of what you say is free but it is only free if you can get the treatment while your waiting. While your waiting your not getting any treatment, your instead getting "NO" treatment during the wait.

This was my point to you before. While you may have all sweet and jucy treatment in your small area, the wider range of the general medical care for all Canadians is much, much different than what your talking about.

The average Canadian is suffering greatly from your "free" healthcare. Did you see two nurses tell the guys they better go use the paid system? Why would they do that emkay if there were no problems as you keep saying?

One person told the guy he would have to wait two years to get a doctor but that was okay because he was young and did not need medical care. Really? The young do not need any care?

I just do not see how anyone can look at that system where a woman must lose her legs because it takes over a year to help her and say it is not broken.
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TJ - How are you going to argue with someone who this system is working for and for everyone she knows? You are an ***. She has personal experience with it. You merely have your unfounded fears and a few cases out of millions who are satisfied with it. No systems is ever perfect nor without some cases were it went wrong. You are terminally stubborn.

 
eddo

eddo

New member
HAHAHA...oh dear...it's Quebec. We never include Quebec in everything...it's like the red headed orphan child of Canada. They are a bunch of loony, rude separatists. It's the desire of most Canadians that they separate, become their own country and freeze in the dark.
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ahh, that's how most Americans feel about New Jersey....

 
timesjoke

timesjoke

Active Members
TJ - How are you going to argue with someone who this system is working for and for everyone she knows? You are an ***. She has personal experience with it. You merely have your unfounded fears and a few cases out of millions who are satisfied with it. No systems is ever perfect nor without some cases were it went wrong. You are terminally stubborn.
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So do the Canadians in the video IWS posted have personal experience with the system too? Why is it only emkay is a Canadian who can be correct about that system?

Is the Canadian suppreme court part of that same Canada too? Does their opinion on the matter count?

How about the canadian doctors who have banded together to complain about the loss of doctors estimated to be at over 10,000 short? How about the nurses telling people they better just go pay $900 at the private office because they will otherwise have to wait two years just to get a doctor?

The massive flood of evidence proving the Canadian system is broken is just overwhelming.

As I pointed out to her before but her and you cannot seem to understand.

I can say the same thing about healthcare in America from my point of view too. I get in to see a doctor anytime I want. When Tami got her elective surgery it took two weeks to set the appoiontment. My tests for a possible heart problem took about a month combined for 7 seperate tests and appointments. I added it up and in Canada what took me a month would have been over 14 years of waiting for the same specialist visits.

I have never personally had a problem with American healthcare so based on that same standard you want me to show emkay, every other fact on the issue must be ignored because my personal experiences have all been great......right?

Please.

I respect emkay but her word does not erase all the facts on this issue that directly proves that her experiences are the exception, not the rule.

Not once has she addressed the suppreme court ruling that the waiting lists are killing Canadians.

Not once has she addressed the yearly "taming of the queue" conference where this massive problem she has never heard of is discussed in great detail.

Not once has she admitted that thousands of Canadians are shipped to America every year because Canada does not have the capacity to treat them for things like premature births and heart problems.

Not once has emkay admitted that government control means government rationing and it is the government rationing that is making the waiting lines so long in Canada.

Did you even see her speak on the woman who lost her legs? A woman lost both her legs because of the year long waiting line before she could get treatment and that does not even get a small reply but she can toss in lots of jokes about why those people do not deserve reasonable care.

I guess emkay is part of the Canadians "who count" while everyone else who is getting bad treatment do not count.

 
Chi

Chi

New member
So do the Canadians in the video IWS posted have personal experience with the system too? Why is it only emkay is a Canadian who can be correct about that system?
Is the Canadian suppreme court part of that same Canada too? Does their opinion on the matter count?

How about the canadian doctors who have banded together to complain about the loss of doctors estimated to be at over 10,000 short? How about the nurses telling people they better just go pay $900 at the private office because they will otherwise have to wait two years just to get a doctor?

The massive flood of evidence proving the Canadian system is broken is just overwhelming.

As I pointed out to her before but her and you cannot seem to understand.

I can say the same thing about healthcare in America from my point of view too. I get in to see a doctor anytime I want. When Tami got her elective surgery it took two weeks to set the appoiontment. My tests for a possible heart problem took about a month combined for 7 seperate tests and appointments. I added it up and in Canada what took me a month would have been over 14 years of waiting for the same specialist visits.

I have never personally had a problem with American healthcare so based on that same standard you want me to show emkay, every other fact on the issue must be ignored because my personal experiences have all been great......right?

Please.

I respect emkay but her word does not erase all the facts on this issue that directly proves that her experiences are the exception, not the rule.

Not once has she addressed the suppreme court ruling that the waiting lists are killing Canadians.

Not once has she addressed the yearly "taming of the queue" conference where this massive problem she has never heard of is discussed in great detail.

Not once has she admitted that thousands of Canadians are shipped to America every year because Canada does not have the capacity to treat them for things like premature births and heart problems.

Not once has emkay admitted that government control means government rationing and it is the government rationing that is making the waiting lines so long in Canada.

Did you even see her speak on the woman who lost her legs? A woman lost both her legs because of the year long waiting line before she could get treatment and that does not even get a small reply but she can toss in lots of jokes about why those people do not deserve reasonable care.

I guess emkay is part of the Canadians "who count" while everyone else who is getting bad treatment do not count.
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Yes, Emkay is the only one who counts! There! :p I'm not about to get into a circular argument with you.

 
Ahhlee

Ahhlee

New member
Yes, Emkay is the only one who counts! There! :p I'm not about to get into a circular argument with you.
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When I head up to Canuckland to visit emkay, I'm certain I'll manage to get fall down drunk and wind up in the ER somehow.

I'll be sure to report back about my health care experience. And if I DON'T report back, it means I died and in that case, their system sucks. :p

 
timesjoke

timesjoke

Active Members
Yes, Emkay is the only one who counts! There! :p I'm not about to get into a circular argument with you.
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Because your basing your comment on "ONLY" her comments, I am basing mine on millions of Canadians who have been involved in these studies. Their own government waiting lits reports. The Canadian supreme court. The Canadian doctors groups. Even videos like the one IWS posted where real life Canadians are asked about their experiences in an unscripted and spontanious way.

I can respect what emkay says and take it as part of the whole to be sure, but just the Canadian supreme court alone makes her comments not very believable in comparison. Surely their own supreme Court knows what is going on.

I have been researching Canadian and other socialist healthcare systems from the first Clinton administration because they promised it back then. I was honestly surprised when the massive problems with very long waiting lists for basic (but not emergency) health care became so bad that everyone just gave up and started a convention every year to celebrate it with the "taming of the queue".

And several year later have waiting times improved?

Some have, yes, but most waiting times have gotten worse. MRI waiting times for example have gotten much, much worse. The data does not lie. It is not interested in saving face or being politically correct.

It is what it is.

 
hugo

hugo

New member
Monday, July 06, 2009

John Stossel on Canadian health care and free lunches.

John Stossel disagrees with President Obama's view that government can make health care cheaper and better for Americans. The truth is that free lunches, including the sorts handed out at soup kitchens, are rarely sought out for their quality and consumer-friendliness. In Stossel's words:
In England, health care is "free"—as long as you don't mind waiting. People wait so long for dentist appointments that some pull their own teeth. At any one time, half a million people are waiting to get into a British hospital. A British paper reports that one hospital tried to save money by not changing bedsheets. Instead of washing sheets, the staff was encouraged to just turn them over.

Obama insists he is not "trying to bring about government-run healthcare."

"But government management does the same thing," says Sally Pipes of the Pacific Research Institute. "To reduce costs they'll have to ration—deny—care."

"People line up for care, some of them die. That's what happens," says Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure. He liked Canada's government health care until he started treating patients.

"The more time I spent in the Canadian system, the more I came across people waiting for radiation therapy, waiting for the knee replacement so they could finally walk up to the second floor of their house." "You want to see your neurologist because of your stress headache? No problem! Just wait six months. You want an MRI? No problem! Free as the air! Just wait six months."

Polls show most Canadians like their free health care, but most people aren't sick when the poll-taker calls. Canadian doctors told us the system is cracking. One complained that he can't get heart-attack victims into the ICU.

In America, people wait in emergency rooms, too, but it's much worse in Canada. If you're sick enough to be admitted, the average wait is 23 hours.

"We can't send these patients to other hospitals. Dr. Eric Letovsky told us. "Every other emergency department in the country is just as packed as we are."

More than a million and a half Canadians say they can't find a family doctor. Some towns hold lotteries to determine who gets a doctor. In Norwood, Ontario, 20/20 videotaped a town clerk pulling the names of the lucky winners out of a lottery box. The losers must wait to see a doctor.

Shirley Healy, like many sick Canadians, came to America for surgery. Her doctor in British Columbia told her she had only a few weeks to live because a blocked artery kept her from digesting food. Yet Canadian officials called her surgery "elective."

"The only thing elective about this surgery was I elected to live," she said.

It's true that America's partly profit-driven, partly bureaucratic system is expensive, and sometimes wasteful, but the pursuit of profit reduces waste and costs and gives the world the improvements in medicine that ease pain and save lives.

"[America] is the country of medical innovation. This is where people come when they need treatment," Dr. Gratzer says.

"Literally we're surrounded by medical miracles. Death by cardiovascular disease has dropped by two-thirds in the last 50 years. You've got to pay a price for that type of advancement."

Canada and England don't pay the price because they freeload off American innovation. If America adopted their systems, we could worry less about paying for health care, but we'd get 2009-level care—forever. Government monopolies don't innovate. Profit seekers do.

We saw this in Canada, where we did find one area of medicine that offers easy access to cutting-edge technology—CT scan, endoscopy, thoracoscopy, laparoscopy, etc. It was open 24/7. Patients didn't have to wait.

But you have to bark or meow to get that kind of treatment. Animal care is the one area of medicine that hasn't been taken over by the government. Dogs can get a CT scan in one day. For people, the waiting list is a month.
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I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.

 
eddo

eddo

New member
Monday, July 06, 2009John Stossel on Canadian health care and free lunches.

I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.
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that's bad! lol!

 
E

emkay64

New member
Monday, July 06, 2009John Stossel on Canadian health care and free lunches.

I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.
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Nice........................................

 
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