timesjoke

So what eddo said gets no comment at all? I was "RESPONDING" to him, do not try to blame me for starting anything Ali. Did it ever occur to you eddo likes to stir sh!t too?

Exactly! I wasted an hour of my life watching his speach tonight and the softball questions the "media" (joke) asked him and I still have no idea what his plan is. He has said over and over his very basic outline but what is being created is nothing like what he is claiming to the public. It is like Obama is playing the bait and switch with America. Even tonight he said the plan will be "budget neutral" but every estimate shows a massive shortfall on funding so..........is this really change we can believe in? Dishonesty, lies, partisan politics, closed door meetings where Obama refuses to say who he has been meeting with, secrecy, sham town hall meetings that are completely rehersed and coached, less transparency than the last 6 administrations, lobbyists on his cabinet, many of them with huge tax issues, the list goes on and on from the President who promised us a completely new kind of politics. NEW? Sounds exactly like the old politics to me.

Where did I ever say Ali hates men as a group? I dare you to post one quote of me ever saying that. What I said is clear, why do you guys constantly twist my words? I said Ali likes to blame men for what women do, and that is true. But I do not believe for a second that Ali really believes women are gullible victims as she protrays them. She is just derailing conversations away from things she does not like being talked about. And yes, that is another example of how women are constantly manipulating things....

Bull, one example was the stimulus bill, he said it had to be signed before anyone had a chance to read or study it to save the economy and keep unemployment at 8%. They did as he ordered and did we stay below 8% as he promised Bender? Was that not fear mongering to force everyone to sign a bill nobody understood? Being as you dodged all my questions I will ask them again: How about you address my point about increases in taxes being passed down to the "poor"? How about you address how only the "rich" employ people. How about you address how Government jobs do not make "new" dollars so they do nothing for the economy. How about you address how lowering taxes actually increased taxes collected. And your clearly not very smart when it comes to how business operates Bender, your little example is not possible in any Country. Do you have any idesa what it costs to hire a new employee? How much it costs to keep an employee? You say your opening your own business for the first time so your lack of knowledge in these areas is understandable to a certain degree but you have to be able to grasp the basic idea of "the cost of doing business". I have my Masters but long before that in basic business classes we were drilled with the concept of "the cost of doing business". Put simply, a business must account for every cost, everything from water bills to taxes are all rolled into the cost column of the ledger. All taxes are sent down the line to consumers. Every time you liberals/socialists tax the "rich" you really tax the poor instead through forcing higher prices or loss jobs, these days it is both. Oh, no Bush never had the support of the Democrats, still today many nuts still claim Bush planned 9/11. Bush was fought every single day by the Democrats.

Men try, but we are way out of our league against women. I was not trying to be hateful or nasty tword women with my comments here or in the other thread EM, I was just pointing out we all have our skills and women are good at manipulating men, sex or anythign else you guys have our number. I am a sucker for Tami and my daughter, my mom too, and my two sisters, the two girls who do my paperwork at the main job, half the ladies at church, and the other half of the ladues at church, the Christian services center has three ladies who can get me to do whatever they need............. Pretty much every woman I spend any real time around can get me to do what they want me to do if they can get me to stand still long enough to talk to me. But for some reason, I can't get upset about that, it just seems that is the way it should be.....now that does sometimes cause me to wonder why it feels natural though......

lol, anyone with a green mohawk has had their cherry popped a long, long time ago......

The point is there are a million ways you women use to manipulate people in general (see study findings I linked) as well as men specifically. Holding back sex or just pouting the range of methods are very large but the idea is simple, do whatever you need to do to get the man to do what you want. I remember reading something about 30 years ago where it was said that women do not fall in love with a man as he is but instead of who they believe they can turn him into.

But you do not call it "the sky is falling" when Obama does it....why? On the other part no thanks, you seem too ready to ignore rules for yourself and apply them only when it is favorable for you so I will simply avoid the flames with you, if you feel you have no other way to express yourself than to resort to calling me names then I will just refuse to answer you until you grow up.

Well it amounts to manipulation anyway, I made a new thread for this though.

"Just keep it on topic. No flames, flame baiting or trolling." I will be removed again if I do what your doing, so if it is to be a one way flame fest from you, I will simply not reply when your doing such Bender. We have all pointed out your President and messiah has been using fear tactics to get things like the stimulus passed but you completely silent about that. How about you address my point about increases in taxes being passed down to the "poor"? How about you address how only the "rich" employ people. How about you address how Government jobs do not make "new" dollars so they do nothing for the economy. How about you address how lowering taxes actually increased taxes collected. I don't know about the birth certificate deal really, I don't care either way to be honest, I know the rules say he is not eligable to be President if he is not an American but I don't really worry about that, if not him then Hillary would would have done everything Obama is doing right now, socialist is socialist. What I do find as interesting though is every time he is pressed on that issue he runs away, why run? Simply show the damn thing and be done with it never to hear about it again, usually people who work so hard to avoid things like this have something to hide.

My name is not Alex, comment ignored.

I wanted to create a new thread from the old one to avoid further off topic discussion in that thread. It is my possition that women are far superior in the manipulative arts and men are mostly just clueless on what is happening to them. I reach to "Lady Misato" for some points because she has a kind of cult following with a lot of women: Real Women Don't Do Housework An interesting read on the skill of manipulation in comparison between men and women: http://www.scsv.nevada.edu/~eigroup/img/conference%20posters/Sex%20Differences%20in%20CPF%20and%20CPB%2017handout.pdf

lol, well yes I have been seriously screwed over by a couple women, and men too, what does that have to do with manipulation? Are you seriously going to say men are equals to women in that department? What is the purpose of cutting a man off from sex then emkay? "Sleeping on the couch" is what?

You cannot stimulate the economy or create jobs by raising taxes. Government jobs do not help the economy, it is recycling the same tax dollars over and over again. We need new private sector jobs, exactly the kinds of jobs Obama is destroying. Obama will go down in history as the President who killed the most private sector jobs during his presidency. The rich will stay rich, if Obama forces them to move their money to safer places then that is exactly what they will do. Obama cannot tax money that is sitting still and that is why all of his estimates for tax revinue have been horribly low. They see the new taxes and just avoid or make up for them by passing them down to consumers. Rich......not stupid. Example, you raise taxes on Wal-Mart, and the top guys with Wal-Mart.....what do they do about that? They raise prices to cover the increased cost of doing business and that means every time you Liberals/socialists raise taxes on the rich, you raise taxes on the poor instead. All taxes are paid by the poor, it is impossible to tax the rich. Take the cap and tax policy Obama wants, it will directly hurt the poor raising costs in some areas to tripple current costs.......how does that help them? Bender, Obama ran on the idea of a "NEW" Washington, not me. If you embrace his promises of new accountability and transparency then live by that standard and stop making so many excuses. Obama is responsible, he took the job knowing what needed to be done and made the promises.....now he has to live up to his failures because he caused those failures, not Bush, not Clinton, not Bush SR., not even Regan..........him, Obama has made these decisions. Obama has broken so many of his campaign promises it is unreal how guys like you are still in the excuses mode for him. Transparancy and finding solutions with bi-partisan support was some of his foundation promises and from day one, he has turned away from both. I agree with IWS on the unemployment point, it is a bad indicator because of the lag effect but Obama used his own fear tactic on all of America about how his stimulus package was so important to keep unemployment below 8% that he did not even want anyone to read it first, just sign it and trust him to keep things from getting worse........ Well the American people trusted his word Bender........and everything has gotten worse, that is 100% Obama's fault. He got the bill he wanted without changes and without a single person voting for it reading the damn thing, it is all on Obama now, nobody else.

In the perfect world yes parents do everything right and stay together so there are two loving and attentive parents raising a child and that child is filled with confidence and support to make good decisions.....but that is not reality and we need to sometimes look past what we would like to see and see what is really there. We have working single moms trying to handle the responsibility of two parents all by herself.........good intentions or bad, that does not leave much time to raise a child. Well I do not agree with just giving up. We are going to throw money at the problem no matter what we do. If we do nothing we have massive increases in Welfare, if we instead offer incentives for things like paid college.....well maybe we can get a taxpayer out of the deal..... Maybe? I do not agree, my son just got married and I have been debating this topic with them and some of their friends. I am considered a "cool" dad and accepted by the group because I tell them from the start I have responsibilities as a parent but I still remember what it was like to be a teenager. They all agree that there is no embarassment in sex anymore. They all buy condoms and pills without any negative feelings at all. When I ask these teens why so many girls get pregnant to the girls do you know what every girl has told me? Because they want to get pregnant. This is not me talking, it is 15 to 19 year old girls all saying that they know what causes pregnancy and how to prevent it and any girl getting pregnant is doing so on purpose. And we do not instill these things into our girls by making excuses for their behaviors and lack of responsibility. Pretty soon they fall into the mindset of the victim, blaming everything they do wrong on someone else. "It's not my fault, men produce porn and that makes me get pregnant......." That is the way I was posting until Ali tried to insert a bunch of excuses for the girl's behavoirs, blaming porn and saying boys just run around from one girl to the next getting them pregnant trying to attach as much blame on men as possible. I do not have a problem with Ali, in fact in many ways I like her a lot. My only issue with her is her need to make excuses for anything that paints what she feels is a negative picture of women. When this happens she goes into counter accusation mode trying desperately to drag men into the mess and blame them for what women do. Still up to this moment Ali has never said women are 100% responsible for controlling their own reproductive system. I asked Ali what man tells her what to do for a reason, she dodged the question because she knows the answer supports my point that no man can stop a girl from using protection. I like to say how both men and women are equals but men do not possess the skills of manipulation that women do. Men are like clay in the hands of women and pretty much do whatever our women want us to do with few exceptions, and even then I still believe those times are set up by the women too, to let us feel like we revolted when it was really just another form of manipulation by our women, lol. I do not say this out of bitternes or anything, I simply accept the way things are and how easily men are controlled, but men are just geared to be this way.

As usual my points are in responsibility. Even Snaf agreed women flaunt their sexuality in extremes sometimes, let's consider the thong bikini for example. I am not saying men are not part of the situation, but most are not informed enough about the woman's body to be making an informed decision. How does a man know if the woman is on the pill or not? If he asks and she says yes, should he trust her? There are complicated issues like where is she on her cycle, how can a man possibly know enough about the woman to be making an informed decision? I hold men responsible for their part, they decided to not use a johnny hat and they deserve to be held responsible for the creation of the life just like the woman, but each have different results of their responsibility. Equally responsible, but their on different ends of the same teeter totter. Only a woman can get pregnent, so the larger responsibility for controlling that falls on her, the man must be ready to offer support for the child should one get created. Well that is the way it is now, men have zero say in the abortion process, women have said they do not want men to have any rights in the child creating process. Even the legal system forces men to get court orders to have the right to visit their own children but women are given custody on the spot. Right now, by laws and the attitudes of the average woman, men are nothing more than sperm donors and ATM machines. I said the woman had a responsibility in telling the man he created a life and I also said the lady had a responsibility to her child to tell the child the truth and to offer the most support possible in raising the child, I never, not once said the man had any rights, so no contradiction. The only possible contradiction claim you may be able to come up with is my possition of abortion where I believe a man should be allowed to block the murder of his child, but I have never said a man should be in control of a woman's reproductive prevention, that system belongs to the woman and she has 100% of the choice in how that system functions and if she wants to protect it or not. There is nothing wrong with your questions emkay, I love this kind of give and take, I only have issues when people like Ali have to make personal attacks. Did you see how she turned the saying my grandmother had about giving away the milk into a chance to again take a shot at Tami? She asked about my "cow", but again, I expect that out of her. Okay, now finally a woman without a huge chip on her shoulder and not afraid to say women have some responsibility in controlling their own internal functions, thank you very much emkay. Really, thanks. Now, if we compare girls of 100 years ago to girls of today can we agree that both had the exact same hormones? I would say we can agree that as a given so that should not be an element to consider what the change is in behaviors. So what is it? Protection today is ten times better and more widely available, education of girls is a million times better, my older sisters said their only source of information was our mother and other girls, sometimes other mothers of her friends but today we have very specific sex classes in all schools starting in elementary school. There is products on all the shelves in almost every store and there is the internet for very detailed information for all girls to see if they have questions they do not want to ask friends or family. So better educated, better and more reliable methods of protection are available, but girls today get pregnant more often.......I place it mostly on attitude, what do you think it is?

Bender, the excuse machine, lol. Blaming other administrations was old politics, I thought Obama was going to change Washington?

No you have not, let me give you one example out of the many: Q - What man tells you what to do? A - None, but I'm not a teenager. Isn't that what we're debating here? Teenage pregnancy? Q - True, and again, when you were a teenager were you a brainless robot doing anything a boy told you to do even not using birth control because a boy told you not to? A - ................NO ANSWER.................... You rarely answer a direct question, you dodge and change the subject instead. No not really, again I admit your a very smart girl and you use that to twist and turn topics away from the intended discussion, but I keep you on track and when you do not successfully derail me away from the questions you do not want to answer.....we get this. Again, why is anyone besides a women responsible for a woman's reproductive system? You have not made the case as to why you feel men are just as responsible for controlling women as the women themselves. Well there you are again with the name calling, good way to make my point for me. If your angry, your the one with the problems, not me. These are just words over a computer world, nothing personal in either direction. Why do you feel you have to pound me into submission? Oh bull Ali, you have been just as involved in calling Tami a whore, brainless bimbo, etc as anyone else. You take what I have shared, twist it into a lie and spout it out for only one reason, to try and hurt me. You have gone out of your way to strike out at me hundreds of time and yet here I am, still trying to figure out how to get you to stop these nasty tactics. I do not hold grudges or anger but I do remember. Do we get into what you have called me? You want to compare nasty comments Ali? The pm you sent me in reply to my pm was fairly nice, clearly then you did not think my pm was a threat but "NOW" you need a crutch for some sympathy or something so your using that. Why are you so weak and needing protection from the big bad Times now? All I am saying is be consistent, if you thought it was okay enough to send me a pretty nice pm in return, obviously I was not threatening you, you would not have held back if you saw it that way then. Well there is a nasty comment right there, how many times have I said that kind of thing to you in comparison Ali? I believe you have me at about 10,000/1. No Ali, you know what my point was. I try very hard to show you I do not hold grudges and to treat you with respect, you do not do the same thing tword me. You have never shown me one speck of respect. Ya, I saw that from you both here and at the jungle when I was being gangbanged.......wait that was you in the middle running the gangbangs, and it was you running the gangbang against other people as well...........how fair is that Ali? Was it fair for you to call Tami bad names Ali? Fair? You don't? What specific 'boys' were you talking about then being as you never use general blanket statements against males? My point to you is you make up excuses instead of casting blame, you rarely say anything negative about actions of girls/women without figuring out a way to drag men into the blame. You even tried to drag in porn and claim men were horrible for "the objectification of women" and it was a mans business. Teen girls are not exposed to professional porn, but they are exposed to millions of women's magazines and women's shows that effect them greatly. You never defended me even once. But I fall into the jerk category right? Anything done to me is justified because I do not conform to what Ali deems is the 'right' frame of mind for a man? I get the feeling that while you may not hate all men, only certain men who conform are allowed to be around you, are you the Alpha? Again, I have not said you always blame men for everything, just that if there is any discussion concerning the decline in moral standards with women you "ALWAYS" drag men into it with excuses of how men are equally at fault for what women do. And, I ask again, how is it a man must be responsible for a woman's reproductive system? Easy request, because I have never said that, I said you drag men into these conversations to direct attention away from women and diminish blame placed on women for their actions. I am not at your throat. Where have I lost my cool? Where is my name calling and flames Ali? What has been accomplished is you once again losing "YOUR" cool and going after my throat. How many times did you invite me to the flame forum at the jungle and call me coward before I decided to give you your shot Ali? 3, 4, 5 times? I do not like this stuff, but clearly you do. I wrote you that pm asking for peace, I say in the open forum I want peace and I back that desire for peace with not behaving in an out of control and hate driven way. I again ask you to do the same. Deaf ears Ali? I listen more to your words than you would believe. I see our situation as a strange one because I really do respect you in many ways but this element of never allowing a discussion about women without dragging men into it so you can cast some blame on men for what women do is a tad confusing to me when I know how smart you really are. Women are not robots to men, why do you keep trying to paint women as weak brainless victims of men? I see women as independant of men in all ways. Your not a victim Ali......why are you so fast to claim other females are? If they are victims then I would have to say it is from other women, not men.

I don't eddo, but I do ask the hard questions and make valid points. Look at any discussion involving women taking responsibility for themselves and there is also Ali trying to attach men to the problem. I will keep this simple, why is porn relivant? Ali decided to bring that into the conversation why? How many teen girls are watching professional porn? Then ask how many of these same girls are exposed to women's magazines that are pushing these attitudes? With Ali she tries to 'muddy the water' with things that have no real impact on the conversation just to keep her from admitting that there has been a fundamental degrading of attitudes with the average female tword controlling their reproductive functions. Look at all the things she has posted, do you see anywhere where she says a woman is responsible for her own body without also mentioning something negative about males? Here is an example of how Ali deflects, she says boys are just going from girl to girl getting them pregnant, like the girls are just helpless victims of boys. I am the guy saying girls are not just victims, that they are strong enough to stand on their own feet and be responsible for themselves. I do not believe for a second any boy can get a girl pregnant unless the girl wants to get pregnant.

I don't care how much it would improve her character, the world needs all types to make it interesting. If everyone agreed on everything it would be a very boring world.

Bender does not allow himself to see Obama and the Liberals/Socialists using fear tactics, he also never allows himself to see Conservative bills offering alternatives to blindly tossing out trillions of dollars at problems without any direction. Everything about Obama's tactics to force "HIS" healthcare bill is fear mongering. Obama says we need reform "now" but his plan will not help anyone until 2013? Is that now? This is all about power grabbing, not helping people. Tort reform would help people "NOW" causing a drastic reduction to malpractice insurance rates and lower health care costs and increases accross the board of all medical fields.

Admitting something that powerful usually is painful. But admitting you have a problem is the first step to a cure. 10 steps and all that dear.

No, just not responding to you when your making personal flames, their supposed to be agains the rules anyway and if I did the same to you you would remove me again so whenever your calling me names, I will simply ignore your entire post until you grow up and get past the childish need. Fact, Obama is always trying to rush through his bills and keep the final product away from the public until it is already signed and nobody can change it. Here again Obama is delaying a report that will show negative light on his poor estimates of tax revinue so he can try and force a vote on his bill while public resistence is lower. Once the report is released, it will increase resistence. What I am saying is the truth........remember the Obama promises of transparency? To have bills open and be reviewed by the public before allowing a vote? Not happening now is it?

So typical. Yes Ali, you do keep dragging men into any discussion about anything you see as negative negative concerning women in general. Your like the drowning person who desperately grabs at someone else in the water and you drown them too. Men do not control your actions in any way, shape, or form so why do you keep trying to drag men into the discussion? Women are not blind robots, I know you do not see women in that way so your attempt to say men are just as responsible as women for controlling a woman's reproductive system is lame, very lame. You refuse to answer that question becuase you do not have an answer, so you turn to this,,,,,,well whatever you want to call this out of control explosion your so fond of performing whenever someone is not intimidated by you enough to drop a line of discussion you find difficult to talk about. If you find it difficult to answer a simple question of why some girls/women have difficulty controling their reproductive system fine, just don't respond, but if your only trying to distract and force attention away from that question then I will simply keep asking the question until it reaches this point of you being pissed. Anger stops your ability to think, you cannot get me angry so I will keep in mind my original question that you have never answered. At the end of the day we agree on many subjects and I find you to be a very smart and funny person. You just have a thorn in your paw on subjects like this and you do not use logic or reason in these discussions. These subjects are WAR for you. I understand this but I will not run away in fear of your anger, if you find it impossible to control yourself in discussions of this nature maybe you should avoid them. As far as my pm goes you know darn well I was talking about your trend to make personal attacks and even attack my family with lies when your upset. You called Tami all sorts of nasty names in your attempt to strike out at me. You made up all sorts of lies just to try and bother me. I can bother you without ever telling a lie as you love to do when your striking out but I also told you I wanted to avoid that arena if possible. I guess it is up to you, as usual I will simply follow your lead and respond accordingly. Remember, I have reached out to you over and over again, I compliment you on things we agree on and even offer you my respect and well wishes when your involved in something bad you share. Between the two of us, I am the only one trying to show you some kidness as well. You have only ever showed me neutral and bad, never one shread of good.

Well that sounds like typical lock step Government thinking to me Bender, what happened to "Change"? If the problem is the stimulus is not working as intended to offer short term stability, then we should not spend the money at all. Remember the 'keep unemployment below 8%' promise. We have already gone past the 8% and well beyond in many States. Pure Government spending does not stimulus by itself, that is like you losing your job and using credit cards to pay your bills Bender. If you never land a new job, then living on credit cards just made your situation worse, not better because now you have to deal with the intrest. What the people need is new private sector jobs, that is the onoly thing that can negate the deficit being causes by such massive spending.