timesjoke

Well it seems the Progressives have started their latest round of class warefare with a new proposal on the ballot for Nov 2nd, a income tax only for the "rich". Washington State has always been famous for their lack of income tax and that has drawn some of the best business opportunities they could hope for considering the drastic weather they can get there but recent shortfalls in tax revenue has the Progressive leadership looking for more ways to get more money instead of cutting spending the way their residents have had to do in the recent downturn. Anyone who earns $200,000 a year as an individual or $400,000 as a couple will have a new tax imposed at 5% while anyone who makes $500,000 as an individual or $1 million as a couple will have a new tax imposed at 9%. This is being pushed by the State leadership as making the "rich" pay their fair share, but is it fair to say only the few must pay to support Government? Is it fair to see the people making painful cutbacks in this downturn but the elitist Progressives are refusing to live with less? Supporters of the measure are people like Bill gates and his father as well as all the big Unions. Opponents are the majority of the business world and the middle class who must file their business income as personal income. Both sides have spend millions so far each trying to support their side but outside of these two sides I see a bigger picture, a picture of once again Progressives playing class warefare to get access to more money they are just going to piss away. There is no amount of tax revenue that will make a Progressive say, "well, we finally have enough, we don't want any more money". There must be limits. we have to tell the Progressives that they have to stop disrespecting the source of their taxes and even reduce their out of control spending.

Again, your more interested in not wanting to admit I finally proved my point in a way you can't refute it then having a honest debate. Either all the understanding of being a woman is based on the scientific breakdown of her body or it is not. It really is a simple concept and it offers a greater understanding of how difficult it is to explain faith to those who don't possess faith. An atheist trying to understand faith is like a man trying to understand a woman, it will never happen. All I am saying is faith does not come frome religion, religion comes from man and there is no connection to salvation and any specific division of religion emkay. What your trying to do is make faith a condition created from a book or specific religion, and that is why your wrong. Salvation has always been available to all men reguardless of their ability to read a Bible or attend a church. Stop confusing religion with faith, faith comes only from within and God, religion comes from man, not God.

If anything, your predictable, I knew you would rather punt than admit I was right and had finally produced an example you could not possibly refute. Men have tried to control women, this much is true, but most of the time it is the men who are still controlled themselves because men cannot measure up to the guile of a woman. But my question was not about control emkay and you know it. Even if men did control women that does not mean they know everything there is to know about women and that is my point as it relates to this discussion about Atheists "supposedly knowing" more about Christianity than Christians. The man in my example knows everything there is to know about the parts that make up a woman, so is that all a woman is? Is being a woman clearly defined by her parts or is she more than that? Does it take more than a knowledge of her anatomy to understand a woman? Do you think being a woman is easily defined in a book and shared/understood by any man who takes the time to read and memorize the book?

People only send jobs overseas because it was the Democrats who forced them to either move their operations overseas or go out of business Bender. How can we compete when an American business has to spend millions in conforming to regulations other Countries do not impose? How do we compete when our business must spend ten times more for employees than the competition? Did you know retired UAW workers make way more money than a full time Nissan worker? American business can have a slightly higher cost because other companies must pay for shipping to America, but the difference is so huge there is no way to compete. But the oil thing is not about competing, we can compete and produce our own oil domestically, those are thriving, very high paying jobs for Americans and what does Obama do? Obama kills them so he can make tree hugging Progressives happy.

Progressives want to run the Government and in so doing, run everyone else's life. Why else do you want the Government to give away free healthcare, free food, free cash, etc.... Free healthcare for the disabled and poor already existed long before Obama took over, you wanted "everyone in America" covered by Government healthcare with the poor paying nothing for it and the rich paying for 95% of it. You consider all the banks nothing? You consider GM nothing? You consider all healthcare nothing? The Government should not be involved in running any of these things, and certainly not more.

A tad over the top don't you think? So to you Progressives there is no middle ground, no way to offer better protections for the environnment than to kill hundreds of thousands of jobs and send those jobs overseas? You Progressives have sent almost all our industry overseas because of heavy regulations and helping Unions plunder them at the same time. And I love how you said you don't care about the broken promises and higher taxes because "YOU" are not having to pay higher taxes. And yes, it is all Obama's fault, the oil ban was not put into place without the okay of the President, the entire healthcare law was designed by Obama, all of this is by his design.

And that is what I am trying to tell you.....that God is found inside your soul, not from any book or other people. You keep trying to claim that faith is defined by knowledge of a set religion and my point is that a person can be filled with faith and a belief in God without ever seeing a Bible in their life and certainly do not need to know specific elements of an individual religion. There is no command from God to form specific religions, religions are creations of man, not God. This is why I keep saying that no matter how much an Atheist has studied various religions there is no way he can understand Faith, and faith is the required element of following a religion. Without faith, religion can never make sense to anyone. My example of faith being like the 3-D glasses is the simplest. You have to look at religion using the glasses of faith to see what the religious follower sees, without the "faith glasses" you see things that are difficult to understand and look strange. Let me give another example: Let's say a guy spends his entire life as a virgin and goes to college to be a doctor. He spends years in school learning all about the body and how it works to include everything about the female anatomy. Not one time has he lived with a woman or even had sex with a woman but he has extensive knowledge of the way women are put together and their female functions on a scientific level. The man knows more about a woman's body than 99% of women know about their bodies.........so based on his extensive scientific knowledge, is it reasonable to say that this man knows more about women than women do? Is the surface and biology of a woman all that is required to "know" what it is to be a woman?

So if the Progressive believes his trash is biodegradable, then it is reasonable to toss it on the gorund instead of using the trash bins? Really? Talking point or not it is fact so how do you explain how conservatives are respectful of the area when they have a event but Progressives do not show any respect to the area? I believe this says a lot about the character, or in this case lack of character that goes hand-in-hand with the Progressive mindset. Will you remember this after the Republicans have the majority Bender? Is working together only important to you when it is good for your Progressive agenda? Don't forget, it was your fellow Democrats who were fighting against each other that made their healthcare reform take over a year, Republicans had no part of your internal fighting and back room deals to buy votes. No, this rally had bigger support, more money from big groups supporting it, and a very wide range of sponsorship from Progreasive powerhouses. Oh, and this rally had a very weak turnout compared to the Beck rally and he had very little organized support. So are you saying the Democrats will not get pounded at the polls Bender? I would bet you our existence on this forum but I know you would never have enough integrity to honor the bet when you lose so how about this: The loser has to put in their signature that they were "Intellectually Inferior" to the other person for two months? No tricks to hide the sig or play word games with it, just a simple admission and acceptence that we were beaten by the other person. You got the balls to back your big mouth up with this wager Bender? I want to see how much this "working together" stuff stays in their mouths after they get pounded in the comming election........

Add to that the last two years of Bush's Presidency was with Progressives controlling the purse strings and creating the legislation that was placed in front of Bush to sign, and yet the Progressives refuse to accept any responsibility for what they have done. You know hugo, many times those of use who consider ourselces conservative may also dissagree on things but we have all agreed on a few things Bush and the Republicans did wrong in the past, we can admit to these things because we are capable of thinking on our own. I have noticed Progressives don't have that ability, no matter what Obama does here is Bender making excuses and trying to change the subject away from the things he knows the Progressives have done wrong but his loyalties are to the Progressive agenda, not to America.

IWS, you have to understand that Bender does not see anything wrong with a massive Government power to lead people by the nose to do as the Government wants them to do. Bender would not have been part of the old or new tea parties because he is someone who believes the masses are too stupid to make their own decisions. Time and time again I have asked him why he believes most people are incapable of beinf successful or educate themselves 'if they want to' and every time he refuses to answer becuase that will expose the fact that it is the progressives, not the conservatives who are racists and believe some folks are just born without the ability to take care of themselves. Nice post hugo, we can work hard to keep our kids minds right though, the biggest problem I see in todays public school system is most parents are disconnected from it and their children. The schools are raising their kids, and creating a lot of brainwashed robots for the Obama/Progressive army.

Again, no matter how much I try to educate you on why your missing the point, you just seem to be intentionally ignoring the key that faith has nothign to do with following something without any knowledge. You have the knowledge of how you "FEEL" that has you looking for more, looking for other expressions of faith just like you might congregate with other people who share your love of art. In many ways it is, I can agree with that to a certain degree, but art is also very commercial in many ways, does the commercial element mean there are no true artists? You can't blame God and faith for the weakness of man. I did? Where did I ever say that? Your putting words in my mouth again to give you an excuse to talk sh!t, you need to stop that garbage and pay attention. Do you think worshiping God can only be done at the permission of a specific religion Emkay? Is that waht all this is all about? You trying to force all people of faith into a tidy definition to make you feel better about rejecting God? Well I am not going to sit here and let you tel lie after lie just to make yourself feel better. Faith does not change, you either feel faith or you do not. Religion is an expression of faith, and many people spend years looking at a lot of different religions trying to find a place that fits their feelings. You didn't miss the call, your hearing it right now, you are talking about believing there is "something else" but at the same time, your fighting against your deep seated bias against religions so once you can let go of your bias, I believe you will find your faith. Religion is something different, expression of your faith is a purely personal exercise, and each of us may seem similar in where we attent church or who we gather with for study, but at the end of the day, faith is between one person, and his/her God. No church, no religious text, no ritual behavior can change that.

I thought it was funny too, wez will go round and round and round in perfect pleasure because it is the strife he craves, figured I would depart the discussion with something funny, lol.

Sounds like you Wez, not me, kids love me, and the only women who don't like me are the game players, the two faced women who are your friends today and your enemy tomorrow. I have abilities to defend myself, this is true, and I guess that is why I don't need to try and compensate for real world weakness with Internet abuse the way you do. I never grew up a wimpy puzzy the way you did Wez, so I have no way to offer advise to you in being more secure in the real world so you don't have to be so abusive in this world, you need to go figure out that on your own.

Of course he is upset, every Atheist acts this hateful to religion because deep down inside, they know they are wrong. They are God's creatures too, they feel the "something more" tapping on their shoulder but they deny that call, they reject that call. So they are really angry at themselves, but they express it by turning their anger outward, outward at those of us who have been strong enough to accept the call and admit we are not the most powerful force in the Universe as the selfish Atheists want to believe they are.

No Wez, your scared to death of "ALL" of the real world, that is why you try to find some power in this world to make up for your lack of ability and power in the real world. Your an Interner badazz, and a real world wimp, lol.

Wow, you took your blinders off for a few seconds and are letting yourself read what was already posted, that is a very big step for a progressive Bender, I am proud of you. Now we have to deal with you're excuse machine reaction to hard facts that prove your wrong, I hope you don't retreat back to the blinders, you might just learn something if you let yourself see some reality for a change: Economy destroyers? By themselves no, but this is how Progressives do things. One huge tax is easily beaten but you guys create thousands of tiny tax increases and increase fees and permits, and any other kind of code word for higher taxes you can find all to give the impression that what your doing is insignificant but in reality, when you add it all up the damage to America is massive and out of control. I notice you ignored the new taxes on medical devces, it is easy for you progressives to pretend you are only beating up on people nobody wants to defend but why should someone needing a hip replacement have to pay higher taxes? What did they do wrong they need to be punished with higher taxes? But to answer your question, yes, I do pay these taxes, not directly but indirectly. Any higher tax must trickle down to every consumer on the planet one way or the other. But wait a second Bender, does it matter if I personally pay them or not? The concept of new taxes are universl and unfair taxes are too. I don't believe something is good just because it is not happeneing to me. Yes, in many ways I am, the many things Obama has done to destroy the private sector is directly hurting me. Take the oil drilling ban, Obama has killed over a hundred thousand jobs and he does not care how much it hurts Americans as long as he can play tree hugger. People out of work means they have no money to spend, money not being spent and no jobs means very little new construction jobs for me to earn my living building. Irrelivent to a discussion of unfair taxes. Either Obama raised taxes against his promise or he did not. Just because you love him punishing smokers with new taxes, that does not change the fact he lied. Goes to character and honesty, either progressives tell the truth or they don't. And you treat him like a messiah or a king the way your an automatic excuse machine for his many failures. You have never admitted he has severely screwed up, you can't even admit he lied to get his stimulus package (special interest payoff) passed. He is the President of the United States, not the President of the Progressives only. The President is supposed to listen to and represent everyone in America, not just the most radical Progressives who want to transform America into a daycare center. I give a f because I care about the damage done to Aemrica in general and the people I love and care about specifically. My children are going to grow up in America, I want them to still have a few freedoms for their life, and I want their kids to have freedoms too. He has caused my insurance policy to increase by 31% to cover the new mandates, my employer is considering dropping our company coverage because it will be cheaper to just pay the fine, so yes, I do care about the new taxes, new taxes that increased the cost of medical devices my health insurance must now pay for. I also have a seperate medical policy most know as "gap" insurance. This policy will pay my deductables and 10% of any hospital stay. The policy also went up 18%. So yes, my costs went up because of new taxes imposed by Obama. So using your point, you also should not care about people who don't have insurance because you have insurance right? We can't care about people and things that don't directly involve us Bender? I'm not like you Bender, I care about ending unfair taxes no matter who is paying them. And it is not so much because I am that warm hearted but it is more to the point that I don't want the Federal Government to have any new taxes from any source. All the Federal Government is going to do with it is waste it. Here is an interesting concept for you to think about: Why is it America is making less money, is out of work, is having to learn to live on less money from day to day but you Progressives think the Government should not also learn to cut back, to learn to survive on less, to even eliminate things that it cannot afford? That is why we saw in the news recently how California completed a school costing $578 million dollars where most of the money was spent on lavish decorations and not just rooms to teach and administer education. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re_us/us_taj_mahal_schools This is what you get with Progressives, they don't respect money, it is always someone else paying for their ideas, not them.

And yet your the one spouting all the hate and calling people names and actually your also telling lies, let me offer an example: "Just another example of TJ trying to convince himself the findings by pew research are wrong, the reports are wrong. Christians DO know the bible better because they have "FAITH"." I never said that, I never said anything close to that, this is the kind of thing Atheists must do to justify their hate of religion. They create lies and excuses to justify their own hate and reaction to religion. Atheists simply pretend something bad was done my religious people so it gives them an excuse to be bad, but look at how Bender reacted to an honest debate about religion......he attacked, he made nasty coments, he slandered, and he told lies...... I already admitted that it was very possible for an Atheist to have superior knowledge of words in a Bible but just knowing some words in a Bible does not provide anyone with a full understanding of religion. Faith does not come from a book, an Atheist can gain understanding of some pieces of religion framework but they can never grasp the concept of faith, this was my point. Bender, you do know that God never created a religion don't you? Man created the many religions in his futile attempt to understand and worship God. Man could never create a perfect representation of God because we are not perfect. We do our best but we are doomed to fall short. Don't mistake various religious books or creations of man with faith. Faith comes from God, religion comes from man.

I have to say, this is a big insight to the mind of a Progressive, just look at the first example showing number 65. The auther tries to compare the Government taking massive taxes by force, with the voluntary giving of money through tithing, does this idiot really not see the difference? I didn't waste much time ont he rest, it was obviously a weak attrempt at taking shots at Republicans but most of it seems childish and filled with standard Progressive propaganda.....but I agree with Hugo, Jeopardy is great, lol.

And as I already pointed out, a college student who completes advanced Spanish classes can barely communiccate when they travel to a spanish speaking Country because there is a big difference between book knowledge and what actually happens. Knowing a passage out of a religious textbook does not mean they understand "the motivation" behind that passage. There is the gap that cannot be breached by an Atheist. They cannot understand the driving love and faith that inspired the works they look at. This really is like a debate about the "chicken or the egg" in the Atheist world. Atheists believe the religious books created the religion, and that is why they study the books trying to understand the religion, it is like what emkay said, she thought religion was taking someone's elses word about what was true, and religion is nothing like that. The only way to understand religion is to feel the spiritual connection first, then look at the other tools such as the Bible. Looking at the Bible without the spiritual drive is like trying to watch a 3-D movie without the glasses.

And Bender will not allow himself to read any of that, lol.

Go back and read, I already gave you a few examples, is your progressive blindness kicking in the way you refused to admit the Republicans had new ideas when IWS was posting dozens of them over and over? You always seem to take this tactic, you just stick your head in the sand and pretend the things you don't want to see do not exist.

Ya, progressives would never use children in their political agenda.........right?

Is this another great example of how weak minded you Progressives are Bender? First of all, he proves everything he is about to say in his video is pure garbage when he tries to claim people look at Ron Paul as some kind of leader or religious head. Most people in business want nothing to do with Ron Paul because he is on the same level as the radical left. Business wants stability, we want steady rules and a radical like Ron Pauul wants to extract all the American stability troops from the world and that will cause the markets to implode once the fighting starts. Look how the recent crap with the Euro caused our own markets to have trouble. This is a world market now, negative things done over seas will have damaging effects here at home, Ron Paul is too stupid to understand that. Second, the Progressives do view their leaders as Gods. While I and all the other Conservatives have been critical of people like Bush when they did something we did not like, peopel like Bender cannot admit to a single bad actions by his Progressives. Bender is an excuuse machine and he is that way because hos progressive beliefs force him to blindly support their agenda. Lastly, the concept this idiot seems stuck on is the notion that "the people work together" in their progressive utopia, and that is not the case, as we just saw in the big healthcare mess, you had progressives all at each other's throats all trying to get their piece of the pie, their special deal, their candy out of the legislation instead of dropping their own desires for what the progressives claimed was the "greater good". The average person is selfish, so as long as we have leaders, individuals who have power to improve their own life at the expense of other people, there will always be corruption as we have seen in every socialist society. Now if you could run everything with computers who don't want personal gain, you might actually get a socialist society to work, but not if there are humans involved. So, how do you provide for the "greater good" of all people? Well let their own greed drive prosperity for all, only under this kind of system do the poor have so much, you can't point out a single socialist country where the poor all have cellphones and big screen televisions with 300 channels of crap to watch on the screen. The only things that has made this level of prosperity even for the poor is the free markets. I'll let the master finish this point off:

"inferior intellectually" would be you and people like Builder, you get your azz handed to you in a debate then spend your time spamming flames on the person who beat you in your attempt to counter your lack of debating skills. Maybe the reason I never get angry the way you guys do is I don't feel inferior or threatened on a personal level, you ever consider that? Personal attacks made by you guys is the first sign you have become hurt, and you get hurt by being vulnerable or feeling weak in a battle of words. RO found out that no matter how outlandish or radical he ever got, I would never get mad, I would never get over the top and it actually ended up having the reverse effect of making him go off the deep end instead of me because he knew he had failed. I don't take any of this personal Wez because only the weak have to find their personal identity in this fake world. I have plenty of friends and success in the real world, so I can keep this world as entertainment and not take things too seriously.

Hate Wez? Pretty difficult for me to dredge up that kind of emotional attachment for a stranger over the internet Wez. You love to pick fights on the internet, that is pretty much all you have ever done at all the places you have ever been. I sometimes get stupid and try to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to have a discussion with you but you quickly turn to crazy and outlandish attacks just because you love the strife. I have a pretty good idea you do this in places like this becuase it is the only place you feel strong enough to "fight". In the real world someone like you shooting off their mouth would end very poorly for you, so you come here behind the safety of your computer monitor and talk like a big man.........because this is the only place you can do so, lol. In all reality, if I feel anything it is pity, but only now and then, most of the time I don't even pity you because I know this is all on purpose. But I will give you credit for taking down RO, when he was crying about me stealing his post, it was you who proved he stole it first, well done, I drove the dagger the rest of the way in, but you stuck it in his back first.