timesjoke

You want Government run healthcare, that is a handout. Yes, I do compare types of Governments, your type wants bigger and more intrusive Government, my type is smaller Government and more personal responsibility for our own lives. That is the way you progressives treat business people. Business are run by those "evil rich" your always taliing about stealing their money. They are the victim of the Unions you support. I know who he is definately and I like some of what he says but I think for myself and see the harms of the progressives with my own eyes. Your the guy who can't answer a question you don't have a predefined reply given to you from the Daily Kos, lol. The Government runs car dealerships, all the big banks, and is about to take over all healthcare in America, I don't know Bender, the better question might be where is the freedom? Bull Bender, just because these Progressives are making you look bad, that does not mean they are not Progressives, you don't get to disown them just to try and save face Bender. Obama and 95% of all Democrats are Progressives and their progressive policies have driven our economy into the ground. You promised to fix our problems, that you had all the answers and after everything you have doen has failed, suddenly it is all Bush's fault again. When will you Progressives ever take responsibility for your failures?

Yep. Trickle up poverty, the Progressive plan. Can't wait. 100% fear mongering to yourself. That's why our opinions on this will never change. You believe your own fears, and parrot them like they are fact. That is no where close to what the plan of action is.. what, f all the unemployed? Guess I will NEVER EVER EVER hear a REAL Republican proposal for our nation. Just complaints. . . While you have your own fear mongering by trying to pain business and the 'rich' as evil. You tell all your people that the only salvation is through massive Government controls and the few Elite telling everyone else what to do, what to eat, where to live, and what medical care they are allowed to have. 8 years for Obama? He is done right now, after this election Republicans will hold the purse strings and the damage from Obama will be all but haulted. After the Republicans do take power, jobs will start to grow and unemployment will decline. Some of that success will be from new policies but even more of it will be because the job creaters will not be scared to death of a group (Democrats) that only wants to attack them.

If you really did do some research and after that research you still did not know of the continued ban than obviously you need to work on your research skills, not be mad at me for doing better research than you did. By the way, notice in that second part where the jobs shown are from 1998, that is 12 years. Sore jobs than that will be lost in the oil industry for America in just this year because of what Obama has done. This is the point.

Don't get me wrong, I have many true Conservatives in mind who I would rather see as President of the United States Bender, you offered me a choice of Palin over Obama and in that choice yes, I would take Palin in a heartbeat because she does not want progressive/socialist ideas to be put into place like 95% of all Democrats. Everything the Progressives have done has ended in failure, they had a super majority, told all the Republicans to piss off and did whatever they wanted to do. All the claims of how much smarter Obama and in general progressives are and when they had the power to do anything they dreamed of doing what happened? They failed, and not just a little bit, they failed big time. The biggest problem with progressives like you and Obama is you see business as the enemy, you see someone with money as evil and you can't imagine a world where the "rich" gained their wealth honestly. The only thing you see as good is punishing those with more money then you with higher taxes. You see no other way to move foward but to have a bigger government handing out success instead of individuals earning their own success. Believe me, that is not a new idea, and in every society where your kind of Government was in power, the people suffered more than under a system like we use. I have pointed out before that even our poor have many creature comforts, where in the world is there a system of government that gives more freedom and more things to their poor than America? Canada? Their poor do get a lot of Government handouts, but you won't see even their children running around with cellphones. Cuba? Their poor don't even have cable television. You can't find a place where the poor can transofrm their life into prosperity through hard work as easily as they can right here in America.

Exactly, this is the point I have been trying to get Bender to understand but he seems extremely resistent to this concept. I would have thought the recent news with even ebay moving away from California to Utah would have been clear enough for anyone to understand that raising taxes over and over and over will eventually result in the departure of those your raising the taxes on. Nobody ever said it was good for "ALL" Americans. Want in on it? Join a fucking union and quit bitching. But wait a second, this was a massive piece of legislation that was sold to the American people as a measure to provide medical care/insurance to those Wmericans less able to have access to medical care, and to help "bend the cost curve down" for medical care. Apart from the fact that costs are already proven to be going up instead of down as promised, why did Obama and the rest of the progressives feel the need to give massive tax breaks to severely over paid Union members at the cost of not having as much money to help the "POOR" Bender? I am asking why this gift to Unions was needed to be inserted in this bill. Can you answer that question honestly? Why are 99% of Americans subject to this new massive tax but Union members completely protected from it? What was on the minds of Progressives who let this little gem for big Unions get inserted? Is Obama and the rest of the Progressives simply selling little gifts like this for future campaign donations and help? Are the Democrats giving away American tax dollars to trade them for donation dollars?

Sure beats the -3.1 Obama has with his policies. Obama got everything he wanted. His advisors and all the progressives agreed on a set of actions to take and fix the economy and spur job growth through massive spending of tax money we did not have. Obama and all of the progressives promised us a cap on unemployment of 8% if they got their massive "Stimulus Package". Obama and company even claimed it was so important to start the program right then, nobody was allowed to actually read it before voting for it. Obama and the progressives have proven they are idiots, and what private sector will trust them to not further screw things up? We will see job creation in the private sector when they can feel confident on what the rules will be from day to day to include the taxes.

Then they will be "rich" too right? And just as evil and deserving of having most of their profit either skimmed off by Unions or the Government......right? Considering the alternative seems to be "no wages" yes. Obama will go down as the guy who killed the most private sector jobs in history, and it was only possible with a progressive controlled Congress. You proud about that Bender? And there you go, class warfare, you are jealous of those with more than you, in your mind there is no way they could have earned what they have so you feel justified in stealiing it from them. Free markets are the only way the poor can get ahead, look around America, even our poor have 60" plasma televisions and cellphones with mp3 players build in. Look around the world and show me a Country where the poor is better off than America and does not have free enterprise of any kind. Still you dodge the question, I know it is a tax break, I am asking you "WHY" giving Unions a big tax break was a good thing for "all Americans". Why Bender? Why did your progressive President make that deal? Why was it important to protect Unions over everyone else in America?

Every new policy he has put into place and every big new law, like the healthcare reform, was purely progressive. Maybe not as much progressive as the more radical elements like you wanted, but he got as progressive as he could with the available votes he had. The few conservative Democrats who were not pure progressives were holding him up and he had to stop where he stopped. But what Obama did do is set up the private insurance companies to fail and the stage is set for the Government to step in later and do what they "must" to pick up the pieces should this law be allowed to fully impliment. Look at everything Obama says he wants to do right down to treating the "rich" like they are the enemy, that is 100% progressive. Idiot. Who here voted for Obama? Not me, you now say you were deceived and progressives like you have stopped supporting him and yet your still blindly defending everything he does. How can you say you bailed on him when your still blindly defending him? If being an idiot in your eyes means we stop treating business like the bad guys then find, call me an idiot, at least I don't have to hide my head when the hard questions are asked of me Bender. You still cannot answer my question as to why Obama gave the Unions that pass on the higher taxes on insurance and how that was good for all Americans.

Why should I answer your question when you dodge all of mine? I am still waiting on you to tell me why giving Unions a pass on the new taxes on health insurance was good for all American and should have been included in Obama's huge healthcare reform? Oh, I know why I should answer the questions from you, I am not a chickensh!t who can only respond to questions that have an issued answer from your progressive websites that do your thinking for you, lol. They create big programs to go with their big taxes like the healthcare law that everyone now is admitting will need much more money than predicted, one independent review says it will cost three trillion over ten years. The answer to everything for a progressive is to raise taxes, higher taxes mean bigger Government, lower taxes mean the Governmenr has to scale back, smaller Government because they have less tax money to waste. And where are all those jobs from the Government getting their revenue from? Thin air? The "rich" are not the Government's personal piggy bank to rob, the only way the Federal Government gets a dime from them is if they invest in American jobs, now how do you get them to invest if you are at the same time treating them like the enemey? Most of the jobs that have gone overseas was because of progressive policies that drove the companies away from America. Severe regulations and giving Unions free reign to plunder the companies forced them to find friendlier places.

First of all, Obama is done, he is about to lose his progressive controlled Congress and any improvement to job growth will be from Republicans holding the purse strings just like it was the progressives holding the purse strings from Bush that slowed job growth. Obama and the progressive controlled Congress will end with a massive loss in jobs, Progressive policies have failed, and that is why the public is about to vote them out of power. Your own chart showed a net gain in jobs, as usual your progressive mind won't even let you see your own proof that does not agree with what you want it to be.

It is always "someone else's" responsibility to pay for Government right Bender? How many people do you employ? The millionare will usually reinvest his profit back into his company, hire more workers and do more business that generates more tax revenue for the Government. Why is your income more sacred? Why should you be excluded? The less money a person makes, the more Government services they take advantage of, the 'fair tax' is a consumption tax, if you spend a lot of money but hide that income (like shady rich guys or even drug dealers) then your still paying your fair share to support the Government operations. Hide your money in an off shore account or keep it in a mattress, who cares, because you still have to spend money to live, and there is no loopholes for that. I have no idea what your talking about, I want less Government, if we move to the 'fair tax' then we can fire all IRS workers because thye will no longer be needed, that would save America billions right there in tax revenue. No, you Progressives want class warfare, you envy the rich and want to punish them for having more than you have. The problem is while you Progressives are punishing the rich you at the same time discourage that same rich guy from investing and creating new jobs. Why invest his money if most of the profit must go to the Government? Subservient? That is what you want Bender, but you just want us to be subservient to an all powerful Federal Government. I do not want that. I want the freedom to succeed or fail on my own power, I don't need or want an all powerful Government to take care of me. Any help the Government could provide would have twise the negative reaction to someone else. When you take from one person to give to another you don't get a 100% result because the monster that is created must also support itself. So to give me $1, the monster must take $2, $1 for me, and $1 for itself. So to help me with $1, someone else had $2 stolen from them, and the only real winner is the monster who never existed before, but now gobbles up money without remorse.

I will give you a thorough run down once you show me where the jobs are under your ideal system. You can stale mate this sh t all you want by avoiding the answer and say I'm avoiding you, but face it f r, not once have you showed me any job growth charts to support your idealism of free market Bushism sh t that you believe. . . Bush still ended up with a positive job growth number (small true, but still a positive) in spite of two wars, 9/11 attacks, the banking and reality collapse, floods, hurricains, and out of control wild fires. Will Obama and the progressive controlled Congress end up with a positive? You can't attack the "rich" who make jobs then expect those same "rich" to feel comfortable enough to take big risks with their money to create new jobs Bender, this is the point not one Progressive seems capable of understanding. The answer is to make businessmen and women feel "safe" putting their money at risk. They do not feel "safe" with a bunch of Progressives running around with torches and pitchforks and trying to cast them as the bad guys. Let me ask you another question you will most likely run away from: Let's say we increase taxes on the rich, hell raise it even more than just letting the Bush tax cuts expire. How do you actually get taxes if the "evil rich" decide to not invest? You can't tax money that is sitting still. Right now there is more money sitting still than ever before because the people who own that money are scared of the progressives and their out of control taxes. The "rich" are taking a 'wait and see' attitude to see what happens with things like the Bush tax cuts. It is uncertainy that is keeping the job creation stagnant.

What are you smoking Bender? Obama told all of the Republicans to piss off and he wanted to go it alone being as he had the power to disreguard them. Obama got everything he wanted and only now that all of Obama's ideas are failing is he again trying to blame Republicans for his own failures. From day one Obama was a purely partisan progressive hack. Do you assign who can and cannot be a progressive Bender? Are you the top leader of all Progressives and can decide who is and is not a Progressive? Why don't we just go to Obama himself and ask him what he is: In the same speach: Oh yes, Obama is definately a Progressive, he says so himself, and we know Obama would never lie......right, lol. Stupid was believing Obama was a moderate, his voting record and history showed him to be a pure Progressive, even his own words he said he was a progressive, progressives are not moderates and far from meeting in the middle, they only want one thing, the Government to run everything. And yes, I would vote for Palin over any Progressive running for office because all Progressives do is kill private sector jobs. We need jobs, not more and bigger Government.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/23/stewart-saddened-by-obama/ (CNN) – Count Jon Stewart among the legion of frustrated supporters of President Obama. Appearing on Fox News' The Bill O'Reilly show Wednesday, the liberal comedian said he thought Obama would do a better job when he voted for him in the 2008 presidential election. "I think people feel a disappointment in that there was a sense that Jesus will walk on water and now you are looking at it like, 'Oh look at that, he's just treading water' … I thought he'd do a better job," said Stewart. Stewart, who maintains he ultimately does not regret his vote for Obama, said he is "saddened" the president hasn't done more to change the structure of Washington. "I thought we were in such a place [in 2008], much like the Tea Party feels now, that the country … needed a more drastic reconstruction – I have been saddened to see that someone who ran on the idea that you can't expect to get different results with the same people and the same system has kept in place so much of the same system and same people," he said. I think this represents most of the every day people who voted for Obama, they saw what they 'thought' was a moderate who was going to go "CHANGE" Washington for the better, get away from the partisan bickering, and restore some dignity to the political process there. To be honest, I wanted that too, my mind told me that Obama was a pure Progressive wacko who did not have the management skills to run a McDonald's but in my heart I hoped for him, or someone like him to come along and really find some way to fix the mess. But unfortunately Obama was not the guy he pretended to be.

Most people do see the Government as all powerful these days, and it makes wonder how this great Nation was transformed from a Nation of people to a Nation of Government.

So where are the jobs Bender?

While we all have our turns at messing up, my point in this sotry is the woman would have had a MRI many, many years earlier in the American system. I got an MRI on my knee a couple years ago just because I had a lingering pain that did not go away after a few weeks, this woman had bad back pain for years without a singly advanced measure to find out what was causing her pain until it was too late to do anything about her cancer. Advanced tools like MRI's are severely rationed in Canada not because they don't know they are great tools but becuase it costs too much to let everyone get one to diagnose their problems like we do so often here in America. In America a MRI is like a cast, just a regular medical tool doctors use. But foe how much longer will American doctors have these tools available to them? The more we let the Government step in and regulate payments and costs the more tools like this will be eliminated from the choices doctors have such as what has happened in Canada.

Easy. Progressives believe in FDR's second bill of rights... And another question Bender is too scared to reply to. I get a kick out of it actually, Progressives have such controlled and fixated minds I bet their subconscious mind actually edits out things like my hard questions and they don't even have to suffer through the idea of how to lie in response to these kinds of questions, they just keep going like the questions never were asked. At the same time they always expect you to answer their questions, I guess that is all part of the elitist mindset these progressives operate under. America needs jobs, the progressives run off the jobs out of their belief that a company owner does not have the right to own his business he created. Every new business is viewed by Progressives as a new piggy bank they can plunder.

Empty talking points is when your main points comming into the discussion are wrong or given to you by the media trying to get the masses like you to not see the truth. You only admitted there was a ban "AFTER I" educated you, 5 seconds of real research in the topic would have shown you that but you were happy spouting the empty talking points handed you instead of doing your own research. Literate enough to know the truth about the ban on drilling, you did not even know that, so who here is really having literacy issues? You only know this now because of me, and why do I know while you did not? Because I take the time to educate myself on these kinds of details, you obviously do not but that did not stop you from talking down your nose and trying to act all superior claiming this was a non-topic and such. The loans are to a Mexican company who we do not have the power to subpoena their books, even if there were specific projects on the loan but there is not) there would be no way to check and be sure that is where they used the money. Any claims of specific usage of the money id pure propaganda by people like you trying to save face for Obama's decision. The one thing you have not admitted to is this directly hurts Americans. Hundred of thousands of American jobs are eliminated by Obama while at the same time Obama is helping create jobs in Mexico, that is the bigger part of the story and that big part is one your not wanting to discuss. We need jobs here in America but every time we turn around, our President seems to be going out of his way to eliminate jobs, not create them, and that is the real point of this story. No, shooting your mouth off is also going on and on about something like the ban being lifted when it was not. You did zero research and relied on what the liberal media programmed you to believe instead of going out there and finding out for yourself. "I" educated you because you were too lazy to educate yourself and after you did have to rely on my greater knowledge, you come bac trying to insult me and put me down with talk about my parents and such all because you need to try and save face for being so completely wrong. This stuff your doing now is how your trying to save face kid. Why not instead thank us all for helping you to better understand things better than you did?

Illegal tax dodging is wrong, but if the insane tax code allows for someone to use a loophole to keep more of their money, that's just being smart. Bring on the flat tax and it wouldn't be an issue. It's still morally corrupt either way. I also say we should bring on a flat tax. We are trying to agree with you, but the answer is not more Government, they will always fall short of the 'cure' because the bean counters and lawyers they hire to find the loopholes are always going to be smarter than the Government workers who try to close them. It just comes down to ability, and the ability of people who would choose to work for the Government instead of working in the private sector is going to be much lower than what is needed for the job. So take it out of the hands of the Government workers who can't compete. The 'fair tax' will ensure everyone pays to support Government expenses.

Good one Joe, funny as Hell.

One has nothing to do with the other, other than a possible motivation to group up on one guy like me in your attempt to get even for losses experienced in debates perhaps, I know that is the promary reason Builder started this current mess, he was handed his azz in the debating and now in his attempt to compensate and 'get even' for those losses, he is trying to come after me in a personal way. And don't you cling to your original beliefs that only a racist could want the border to Mexico secured? Your just as closed mined as you claim I am, and a racist yourself against anyone white who says things you don't like. And that is why it happens all at the same exact time? No, you may build up irritation over time, I give you that possibility, but you "CHOOSE" to gangbang at the same time to try and give you strength in numbers. Builder only got his nuts pumped up after you and emkay shopwed him some support for his crazy attacks in the shout box. And like I already pointed out, this is not the first time you jumped on the gangbangs, you always jump on and have never decided to stay out of them, not one time have you ever stayed out of the gangbangs.

You don't have felings beyond your hate, and yes you are incapable of facing the truth that you are a bully. Nothing like this happens without you jumping in on it. Hate? I don't dislike you THAT much, but whatever. Bully? If that's the way you look at me, whatever, too. I always thought bullies picked on people weaker than them in some way. Do you see yourself as weaker than me? Your part of the gangbang mentality, most people who rely on this see themselves as weaker one on one but gather their "gang" to help them defeat the stronger person by virtue of their strength of numbers. Two days ago Builder was not spamming his mess all over the forum, after you and emkay pumped up his nuts suddenly he is brave and ready to fight. Now at the same time look at the two of you, while you did not feel compelled to start a mess like this yourself, you had no problem joining in on the gangbang because his actions spurred your actions like you feed off each other's actions in a kind of feeding frenzy. As I already pointed out, you did not have to join in, you made the choice to gather together to conduct a gangbang, and just this one time would not really be a big deal, but you "ALWAYS" join the gangbangs, you have never been apart from them even one time.

I just noticed you spammed that stuff all over the forum, I really did hurt your feelings. You know, all playing aside, I really did not want to hurt your feelings, you decided to make a sexual comment to avoid admitting you were wrong and I thought you adult enough to accept the same kind of playing in return. I really don't have the ability to feel anger over things said on the internet, I would never say anything for the motive of hurting your feelings. If I hurt your feelings I am truly sorry for that. All this mess your creating is pretty silly though.