timesjoke

But you keep saying that their violent actions are for good reasons, make up your mind. Either their attacks on completely innocent and non-military targets are good or bad actions. Having or possessing nukes does not make right and nobody ever said that. We have the ability to own and not use nukes, Iran does not. Yes, we have used them before, and that has tought us a lesson that can only be learned through experience. You cannot know the horrible responsibility of using force until you truly use it. My move to teaching defensive tactics was based from my successful defense of myself from 5 attackers who were all armed (not with firearms). I put 4 in the hospital with severe injuries and one died at the scene. The event started and ended in less than 5 minutes. There was no time to call a lawyer and discuss options, no time to run away or to get assistance, it was me or them, and I was determined it was not going to be me. People like yourself attempted to disect my actions and say I was to blame or could have avoided killing the one who died, I endured countless hearings and lawsuits but in the end, I rounded off my time to ten years and quit to follow private interests. My point of telling you this story is that even though I had no other choice, I still feel the weight of my decision to end that man's life and I will always carry that with me and it will color every choice I make in the future. America using nukes in the past gives us the understanding of how much responsibility goes into using them and helps us to understand just how awful they truly are. There you go with your profanity again, you would think someone going to college would have a wider vocabulary. Do you think Jesus would approve of your use of profanity? It is not bull, it is fact, long before 9/11, America supplied more then 60% of the food eaten in Afganistan. We had no political favor to gain there, but our kindness for that food and our earlier support that made Afganistan's fight against Russia possible was to plan and commit 9/11, I guess the old saying "No good deed goes unpunnished" was right. Nobody said anything about specific measures taken, just if you allow the concept of preventative actions in your little world. While we have at times attacked Countries like Iraq, most of the time we only use political pressure and sanctions to get people to behave themselves. The concept is if we have reason to believe bad things are happening or will happen, then we have a responsibility to take action to prevent it or stop it. Not from a vaccume without anything to support your claim but lets say I just killed four other people and I was just heard to say I was on my way to kill my ex-wife, now there is reason to believe I will follow through with my threat and to protect my ex-wife from my believable threat. You see, every decision a leader must make is based on many factors. This is true in government and business. We must look at the credibility of information to make our decisions. If a nobody tells you 9/11 was an inside job and Bush was behind it all, you know that the information is useless and should be ignored, but if you hear from the leader of Iran say he wants to kill all Jews, remove them from the face of the earth, you can reasonably conclude that he is being honest about his intent.

According to this story: FOXNews.com - Wal-Mart Yanks Pink 'Credit Card' Panties Off Racks - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News Due to consumer pressure, a line of panities for young girls was removed from sale at Wal-Mart. The reason given was they gave the wrong message to young girls but I wonder, was it the wrong message or just that some people do not want to admit the truth? You see, I have always seen prostitution as the same as dating or marriage. The only differance is the man will pay many times less to have a hooker. If I take a woman out to dinner and dancing, I will spend between 2 to 5 hundred dollars, if I "get lucky" at the end of the night, how is she any different than any call girl? I think many people get upset at things like this because they know it is the truth of how society is changing.

You just condoned violence right there. I am capable of seeing reality, reality that sometimes bad people must be dealt with. I do not watch the neighbor beat a child and do nothing, I take action. The same is true with our worldly neighbors, sometimes we must take action to keep bad leaders from causing massive harm to innocents. Iran promises to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth, the problem with that promise is that the Jews are stronger then them so the only way to stand behind that promise is to use a nuke. This is just one example, no, it would be impossible for America to help everyone, there are limits to everything, but we do what we can and what will create the most good. Stop avoiding questions that are asked you. I ask you again In your world do you allow any concept of preventative actions? Do you understand my example of not allowing a young child to have a grenade launcher?

Man has been waging war for far longer then the invention of the nuclear bomb. Telling an unstable Country they are not responsible enough to have a nuke is not unreasonable. I see it similar to telling a young child they are not responsible enough to own a grenade launcher. In your world do you allow any concept of preventative actions? There you go justifying terrorism again. You are so two faced.

How do you get 100 babies into a mail box? Food processor. How do you get them back out? With a straw. The part that makes your joke tasteless is when you get specific about a "real" death of a child. It is insensitive and if it was your dead child people were making jokes about you would fly into a rage, and so would I. I see that the same as using military and intelligence together. I have always said my beliefs are based on what I know so far but am completely open to new evidence. I cannot ignore cadavar dog hits, that is 100% foolproof, there was dead bodies in those two places. I cannot ignore no forced entry. I cannot ignore the statistics that say close family ore the most likely people to harm small children. I cannot ignore their refusal to allow hair samples to be taken on the living kid to see if there was any trace of drugs. At the end of the day, we do have 100% proof that they are in fact guilty of child endangerment that led to the death of their child, you cannot dispute that and so far, nobody is willing to hold them accountable for that fact. You dodged the question, so I will ask it again: Their child is dead, they are the only people who had it in their power to prevent this death, do you dispute that fact? Obviously if your stoned or drunk, or any other mind altering state, it can affect your judgement. If your imparement caused you to neglect your child, then yes, you should be at least partly responsible. I see this the same as driving a car, if it is illegal to drive drunk or stonned, then it should be illegal to do something ten times more important like watching children. This brings to mind the story of the kid killed by the dog while the grandmother (I think) was stoned and drunk, her imparement caused the harm to the child. While I dispute your claim about how often parents put their children into mortal danger, the frequency things happen do not make them right or wrong. I don't care how many parents do crap like this, it is wrong and giving them a pass just makes parents know they cannot ever be held accountable for their actions and will cause more harm to children. These parents are highly educated doctors, if they don't know better then to leave the tiny children alone and helpless in a room while they go out to dinner and have fun, who can we expect to know? It is called responsibility, only the parents are responsible in this situation, so why can't we hold them responsible? No it is not a game, but everything in life is making judgements, judgements made based on many factors, including things like statistics. Would you start looking for a serial killer in a Harlem womens center? No, because most serial killers are middle aged to young white males, so you start there and work that angle until something comes along to take you into another direction. Logic does not say a longer time means a stranger did the crime, it is instead the exact opposite. With the absence of things like forced entry and no evidence of an intruder of any kind, that proves it is not a spontanious act. The person committing the crime had plenty of time to do what needed to be done to ensure there was no evidence against him/her. A stranger would be constantly concerned for the unexpected return of the parents and that would force some kind of mistake, some kind of error that would be traced back if not to him, then to the possibility of a stranger being involved. This is for all purposes, a perfect crime. No evidence of any kind to prove an outside person was involved, that level of perfection does not happen without time, a precious comodity an outsider does not have much of. No, based on the evidence available at this time, only the parents had the time to pull this off so perfectly in my opinion. I do hope some evidence comes along to prove otherwise because no parent wants to think killing your own children is possible, but just because it is distastful, does not make it untrue.

I have three seperate english Qurans and there is no real discernable differance between each one. But. Translations and what is said is not as important as what is "pushed" by the religious leaders. There are some very harsh stuff in the old testament and even the new has some things some would feel are hostile but as a general rule, Christians have moved past these things and do not follow them as a standard part of their daily faith. Modern Muslims do still find a martyr as being the highest possition of their faith. They do still preach the agressive parts of their religion even to small children. We see even in places like Canada, a Muslim man still feels it is okay to kill his daughter for not wearing her face covering. The Quran is broken up into sections like a manual giving instructions for almost any situation. The problem for the world comes when a Muslim feels oppressed. This is why I made the oppressed thread, if a Muslim can "feel" oppressed, then under his faith, he is commanded to strike out at those that are in his mind, oppressing him. "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." ~ 8:39 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." ~ 9:5 As I understand it, this command to use "every stratagem of war" is what allows and even commands the use of pure terrorist methods of attacking innocents like children of the oppressors. "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place." ~ 9:38 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)." ~ 8:73 This is why even if a Muslim does not directly get involved in terrorist actions, they still feel pressured to give shelter and aid to those terrorists. Does this mean every Muslim gives into that pressure? No, but it is very difficult to resist this pressure considering it is such a powerful part of their religion. This again goes to my point about what is being preached "now" not what happened in the past. Trying to condone current actions based on similar actions done in the past by someone else is simply wrong and only makes the situation worse. Under that logic nobody can take action to stop any injustice because we all have negative things in our past. It was once legal to kill blacks in America, does that mean if you kill one now it is still okay? No, because we have moved past that garbage and while there are still issues here and there, most of the time we all get along until stuff gets stirred up. It is impossible to move foward if your always looking behind you.

While I admit you have a right to your opinion, I still find joking about dead children to be in very bad taste, but it seems taste is no longer a consideration these days. Well, you can be depressed or instead make the most out of the time you have, I choose the latter. It does not matter who you are directing the sick humor at, all that matters is it is sick, sick your mind could even twist that way. How is it you claim superior knowledge, we are all stupid and talking about things we don't understand and you are the smart one? You need to get over yourself. Most states now charge parents for leaving their kids in hot cars, why is this any different? It is not reasonable to leave very young children alone, it only takes a second for a child to die from an accident, you already admitted they could have used the house nanny but they refused to do even that easy step of responsible action, clearly they are very bad parents at the very least. Their child is dead, they are the only people who had it in their power to prevent this death, do you dispute that fact? Why keep making excuses for them? Why is it you want everyone to completely ignore the most likely criminals in this case (family members) and only chase the least likely aspect, (non family members)? I play the averages, that is all anyone can do, these investigators are not mind readers and cannot see evidence that is not there. They must follow the most likely course for crimes of this nature. Did you know most crimes are solved by someone involved incriminating themselves? Did you know mothers turn their kids into police more often than any other person or relationship to the criminal? Cops are not miricle workers, sure they have better tools than ever before but still they are limited by the law of averages to not catch crooks without them making a mistake.

"Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." ~ Abraham Lincoln A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit. ~ Thomas Jefferson

There you go again with your "I knwo you are but what am I" crap. If you are ever truly interested in being reasonable, let me know, until then, you are now in my "unruly child" catagory.

What does my name have to do with anything? Timesjoke is about how time gets the last laugh on everyone, hence my sig "no matter how hard you try, you can't beat time". I came up with the idea based on the song "time" by Pink Floyd. My point was that this is a serious topic and why dirty it up with garbage like that. Why laugh at another person's real suffering, sure, mild suffering may be okay, but this is no laughing matter. A young girl is dead and the pearnts who were supposed to keep her safe neglected that duty (at the least) and allowed her to become a victim. The parents had all the power to stop this from happening even if they did not kill her by simply showing reasonable care, nothing more. As I keep saying, at the very least, both parents are guilty of child endangerment causing the death of a small child, they are horrible pieces of garbage, nothing more.

Wez, you don't have the ability to have a discussion on any topic without moving to hatred and profanity, how do you propose to impliment this utopia you talk of? I am not trying to attack you, I am just making a point. If you cannot behave the way you want all leaders to behave, what makes you think it is a possibility? You see, there is idealogy, and there is reality, I prefer to stay in the reality arena. To answer your question concerning why one group and not another can have nukes (for the tenth time) because some can be trusted with the responsibility of having them while other people cannot. It is the same reason you can trust a highly trained soldier to operate a tank but an uneducated 5 year old would cause havock trying to operate one. If nothing else, Muslims have proven themselves to be a tad unstable and sometimes purely homocidial maniacs depending on the day in question. In the beginning of this topc, before it was derailed by Wez, I posted a story of a father who strangled his daughter because she did not want to wear her face covering, it that truly the kind of people and mindset who should be walking around with nukes? I wish nukes never appeared on the scene, I honestly do but allowing every wacko third world Country to own one would be a much worse situation. With most people, there is an understanding of mutual death where nuke use is concerned so that is why they don't use them but letting a radical Muslim Country get one and they may just like the whole martyr idea and let it rip. All it takes is one radical, not an entire Country to make that decision. Now, trying to again get back on topic, I must agree with sheik, Muslims have discovered they can acchieve with violence what they could not do any other way. Look at how they use the media to win the PR battle even though they start every agressive action they are involved in. Look at the riots in Paris where they claim they must burn and destroy because they are oppressed, like their actions are not oppression itself. I wonder if people will ever wake up?

You said they had good reasons for what they did, that is defending their actions. If you feel it is okay for terrorists to strap a bomb on their body and take out a school bus, it is you who is truly sick. I want you to accept responsibility for defending terrorists, it was you who said you thought they had a good reason for what they did, you said it so sleep in the bed you made. You either directly condemn the terrorist actions or you don't, so far you don't and only say America is bad in everything we do. It would have been more shock and awe to just pound the city with standard munitions. Instead we used munitions that cost thirty times as much so we could keep collateral damage to as small a number as possible. Terrorists don't take the extra care and expense to avoid collateral damage and in fact will target innocents exclusively sometimes, like 9/11. I have already proven you lied but you just play childish games in trying to say we are doing what you in fact are doing. I am just tired of sissy little babies like you crying all the time and holding your hand out begging for your government to give you free money and stuff. You are a taker, a cancer on society, a complete waste of air. And yet you still have not talked about the topic yet, imagine that. Persecuted? Where are they persecuted? Everywhere I look I see them getting special treatment, like public schools making speical classes of all muslim children so they can pray several times a day, I thought we could not pray in school but it seems only Christians cannot pray. Molesting children is not ordered in the Bible, but killing infidels using "any stratigum of war" is called for in the Quran. I already defined it for you, please try to keep up.

I must admit, I was floored by this story: McParking row as slow eaters given heavy fines | The Guardian | Guardian Unlimited Some stores and restaurants are giving their customers a very limited time to conduct their buisness or be given a fine, how can this be possible? Call me old fashoned but I remember a time when a business would do everything possible to attract business, not piss them off but obviously I am behind the times. Just how much more are consumers going to take? So they want our money, but only if we spend it fast? Does anyone else have issues with this?

As I keep saying, and you keep demonstrating, "You can make your mouth say anything". You "say" all killing is bad but you follow up with defending terrorists saying they have a good reason for what they do, clearly these two things collide and show your true belief that it is okay to kill if your a terrorist under your belief structure. I know you are but what am I? Grow up. (/11, strapping a bomb to your chest and boarding a school bus, etc..... You see, intent is the key. A terrorist only wants to kill innocents because that creats the most fear, while we spend billions on precision bombs to keep collateral damage to a minimum, we clearly do not want innocents to die. How about you? Your the biggest hypocrite on this forum so start speaking out against yourself. Your right, it is difficult for you to maintain your lies in the face of the truth but you always seem to find a way to persue your anti-American, anti-government agenda. As usual, you start the personal attacks, I opened a topic talking about muslims not fitting into western societies and you talk about child molesters, you attack me and eddo, you talk about evil America but you refuse to talk about muslims forcing established societies to change, why do you always dodge the topic and make everythign about you and your hatred? Blending in is not changing completely all that was there before you came.

But your a lier, you only claim it is wrong to kill if it is America doing it, you fully support muslims doing it. You either believe it is all wrong or you don't, clearly your actions prove you believe terrorists killing innocent children is a good thing the way you always defend them. Nope, it is a good thing to stop terrorists, maybe a child you care about will be killed by a terrorist so you can care about the innocent being killed but until that day comes, we will do what needs to be done while you sit back and defend terrorists. And yet I don't try to pretend to be a Jesus freak, you do. You claim to follow the teachings of Jesus but you defend terrorists, that is what makes you sick. Again, I ask you leave your personal attacks out of this discussion. Start a new thread and attack America all you want but I am attempting to discuss the muslim refusal to blend into the society they moved to and why so many people believe we should allow this to happen. I ask any moderator to please split this topic if Wez continues to ignore the topic at hand.

Your very actions to defend terrorists and rioters shows your true hatred, you cannot hide behind your lies Wez. If you agreed that what they do is wrong, you would support the actions needed to stop them, being as you both defend them and attack the measures used to stop them, clearly your hatred boils over against your own government and people in favor of them. And you dare to say you follow the preachings of Jesus, Jesus would never make excuses for terrorists blowing up busses filled with school children or daycare centers, your just sick.

Then treat me as such and stop this childish extreme antagonistic crap you always use to derail topics. It is you who has given yourself the reputation of being unreasonable, not me but you flail and complain at every turn about the result of your own actions. You cannot stay on topic and you use personal attacks and lies to stop all honest discussion. Why can't you just agree to disagree instead of making everything you talk about personal?

The problem with idiots like Wez is he must defend any and all elements that attack or degrade the government he hates. It is like the old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Wez sees the government and established order as his enemy, and even though terrorists and such do things he may find distastful, he likes the results of their attacks on society so he supports them and does everything he can to derail any real discussion against them. I point out two recent topics, this one and the one about muslims rioting, both times Wez comes out using misdirection and trying desperately to make everything about his personal attacks so all discussion about the real topic gets lost in flame wars. Wez is so transparent it is funny, he is everything he claims we are. He is intolerant of anything American, western, or governmental, no matter what it is, he will damn everything to do with these things. Let's look at an example of Wez changing the subject, he started talking about Catholics molesting children, while I agree that these are scum that need to be executed, this has nothing to do with this discussion. Catholics are not trying to change local laws to allow sharia law, they are not killing innocent girls for not covering their faces, Catholics are not trying to end all established holidays. Catholics are not demanding special treatments paid for my our tax money like foot baths and special, all muslim classes in public schools to allow their daytime prayers. Let's try to keep this on track, the topic is about how muslims refuse to fit into the societies they move to and instead want the established society to change to suit them. If you cannot talk about this topic, please take it elsewhere.

We western society people, I don't know if your just being silly or you are incapable of average reading comprehension but either way, it gets old constantly taking the time to educate you on every tiny detail, it is like you are isolated on your own world, away from reality. Again, who is truly intolerant, the established society or the new members that feel we must completely change ourselves to accept them?

I know you are but what am I?

With this new story: Teen dead after alleged attack by father It included this supposed reason for the killing: In my opinion, it seems like western societies are attacked as being intolerant and unaccepting of muslim people but in reality, it is them who push to change western society into being more like their societies. We see examples of this kind of behavoirs all over the world where muslims have gathered in large numbers, all attempting to drastically change these places. In Canada, there is a hard fought battle going on to allow sharia law (in limited scope) to be practiced there, mostly family law areas. I have nothing against muslims other then the ones that are terrorists, but why do we have to give up our traditions (like Christmas decorations) to be considered tolerant?

I know you are but what am I?

I know you are but what am I?

Well, obviously the show of force in Iraq was intended to be a message to all of the middle east. When we took Afganistan, there was no real attention given to it, nobody cared about Afganistan so clearly we needed another target that would get some attention, Iraq was just as good as any other target for that purpose and we had over 14 years of UN screwups (like the oil for food scandle and inspector scandles, etc....) combined with Suddam shooting off his mouth every other day. The result, all the areas radical groups poured every dime and body they could into Iraq to fight the "infidels" and even though the fight has been messy, we are comming out on top. Violence is way down all over Iraq ans the average radical fighter is very young, too young, a sign they have squandered their future on this fight in Iraq that they felt they had to win but clearly have failed. If Iran and other Countries did not learn from this, they are more stupid than I thought.

As with most parents I always said I would give my kids what I never had but as I started truly being a dad, I remembered how much it meant to do things with my dad and how bad it was when he had to work late and weekends and not be able to spend time with me. I remember being a kid, I honestly do, so all I do is what I wanted my dad to do, spend as much time as possible doing things together, not just in the same room but doing the same things as a family. I was to give any father advise about being a good dad it would be to not kill yourself trying to earn the extra cash if it means you cannot spend time with your kids. You don't need lots of money to have fun, but your kids cannot have fun with you if your not there.