timesjoke

You cannot make me you Wez, your the evil one, not me. Your describing yourself with every attack you make against me.

And this is my point, he spews filth all over the forum, his profanity alone shows his lack of being able to control himself. It is Wez who is causing 99% of the strife on the forum, I wonder if anyone cares?

You cannot make me you Wez, your the manipulator, your the bad guy, you can never be pure like me, I am innocent, I am clean compared to your filth. You only try to make yourself feel better about your evil, I believe in the teachings of Jesus, I do what his teachings say, not what you want me to be.

Stop trying to make me you, I am not you and you cannot make me you, your the one, not me. I know you are but what am I?

Wow, he has gone off the deep end, he is drinking Budweiser, what a waste of human life. May as well drag him out to the woods and put a bullet into his head because he no longer belongs to the human race if he will drink Budweiser

I know you are but what am I?

You are too careful to openly do anything, but like a cop putting his hand on his gun, the threat is there, even if the gun is never pulled. There was no reason to even mention banning, your mentioning it is like the cop with his hand on the gun. Clearly you are playing games. Again, you have no credibility and you want me to pay for your lack, fine, I already told you that I am gone if your man enough to stop playing games and just come out and say it. If you truly wanted to help the forum, you would deal with Wez, being as your even encouraging him to act up, your true motives are clear.

Why is it you feel compelled to insert yourself between me and everyone else Wez? Your the most rediclious person on this forum, you lie and create trouble almost every day but somehow you get a pass, I will be honest, I am truly at a loss of why your allowed to spout profanith all over the forum and if I just dissagree with IWS, he tossed words like banning around as sideways threats. Your a complete waste of air Wez.

Johny, You posted too much to reply to it all, I will just make a simple reply that I hope will not get me attacked again. My point about the money you spend on drugs is how low money earners spend more on personal "entertainment" than high money earners. I spend a lot of money on entertainment to be sure, I even own a hole in the water some land lovers call a boat. But, the percentage of my income I spend to entertain myself is less then 5% of my yearly income. I am not sure of current costs of pot, it was always something all over the place when I worked the streets, but let's just say 100 dollars a week for something to talk about. Considering that the biggest abusers of pot are from poverty, to around 30k a year, that 100 dollars is a large part of their income. I always laugh when I hear some of these guys complain about life, if they so much money to spare they can blow it to get stoned, then why are they complaining? While you keep saying how "perfect" your breaking the law, I would like to remind you most people in prison though they were smarter then the system as well. The part your dodging concerning what your teaching your child is not what you say, but what you do. I am not sure how old your child is, but kids know their parents are doing drugs younger then you think. I have seen reports from social services where they would interview even 4 year lds and the kid knew names, places, vehicles, all sorts of stuff the parents nerer suspected. Kids are not stupid, as a parent, you teach your child more through your actions than your words. She either knows, or will know you do drugs. When this happens, what does that teach her? What laws will she decide is okay to ignore? What laws will she think are silly? And will you accept the blame if she decides to do something really bad?

Then why even use the word, you see, this is the problem, it is called a veiled threat for a reason, you only hint at the banning if I do not do what you want, otherwise, there would be no reason to even talk about banning. No, by bring your anger to every discussion it is indicative you are just upset and looking to get into a fight, I don't know if this is your way of getting someone to give a good reason to get banned or not, but I do notice that even though Wez does ten times more of what your "claiming" I do, and you never take this hard line with him, obviously your reasons are lies, your making this personal. And exactly what proof was offered in the oppression thread that I ignored? You don't even rremember the discussion, but I do without even looking at it because when I talk about things, I take the time to be sure of what I am saying and why. The oppression thread was about opinions, and in my opinion, naming everything oppression removes the ability to seperate things. We have millions of words, but everyone must have the most powerful word and as such, degrade the meaning of it. This was my point, but you could not allow the concept that I am entitled to my own opinion on the subject, I did not conform to your idea of what I should believe so your upset at me. Interesting Wez knew exactly what mod I was talking to, do you clear all your actions through him or just this one? I pm'd you to try and understand why you would toss words like banning around so carelessly, now I understand. Being as Wez uses profanity in every thread he is involved in, including this one, it would be difficult for you to say much to others. If your going to be consistant, you now have to allow everyone the same freedom to be rediclious as you have given Wez. As I told you in PM. I was looking for a new group to debate with when I found this place, if your trying to run me off with your double standards, just say it out loud and I am gone, I don't need this level of childish game playing by moderators in my life.

I knwo you are but what am I?

I know you are but what am I? Your right Jhony, but being as Wez is considered the reasonable one and I am getting veiled threats of being banned, maybe this is what some want the forum to truly be. Hey, I can rumble with the best of them, but I am starting to understand that while you and a few others debate from your desire to be honest, Wez and a certain moderator only post for antoginistic reasons. This is why you and me can seem to be at each other's throats in one thread and getting along like best friends in another thread. We can completely seperate ourselves, others cannot. Hell, I am in pm's with the mod who is pissed off at me now and he even tossed the oppression thread at my face, saying I was wrong because I refused to back down to everyone who did not agree with me. I thought this was a debate forum, not a popularity contest. Times

I know you are but what am I?

Because he doen not have that ability. Everything about Wez is out of control emotions, he does not understand the concept of logic. Wez hates, his out of control use of profanity and hatred added to his inability to ever claim responsibility for his own actions will forever leave him in sorrow. I honestly feel very sorry for him and the many in this life that are like him.

He started to, but the second we pointed how his own killing of an innocent life makes his attacks on others kind of silly, then he backpeddled and took back his admission: He is a hypocrite, he bashes everyone else for doing things less horrible than he has done himself. All he does is try to deflect things away from himself. He tries to make others sound worse than him so he is not soo bad. It is an old game to try and bring others down if your unable to elevate yourself. Killing a baby is deciding for that life that it does not deserve life. If a woman can decide the life is not worth while just because it would be inconvient to her, now that is horrible.

Like this is an expression of someon who is smart right? Thanks Jhony, I believe your a good example of society as well. For thise of you who seem to always see things as winning or losing in these internet debates, I say your here for the wrong reasons. As Jhony just point out, this is supposed to be about disecting every possible angle of situations and exposing ourselves to new things, not about winning or losing. Do I debate strongly? Yes I do, I believe if your gonna do something. put some energy into it, but that is because I like to challenge people, to push them to come up with the real, root reasons for their beliefs, not just parrot practiced responses to issues. Believe anything you want I with reason, I will respect you as long as you can articulate some sound reasons for your belief. If all you can offer is double standards and "just because" as your answers, I will not respect you. I leave everyone with one though, how boring would the world be if we all agreed on everything? Times

Even if you are careful to never be impared when your daughter is around you, something I question but will take your word for at this point, there are still so many other factors and the easiest to talk about is how much money do you believe you have spent on drugs in your lifetime? If you had spent all that money on prepaid college for your child or any number of other things to help her directly instead of using up limited income to get stoned. Well, that should speak for itself. My point was there are many studies that show many things, we don't have anything difinitive about pot being harmless, and until we do, I don't want my children having unrestricted access to it. And they are not doctors, treating yourself with the wrong things will make your problems worse, not better. So you say pot does not "cause" these problems, just that people with problems are drawn to pot, either way it is disturbing to believe pot users are mentally ill and not getting the real medical treatment they need. You mean the way cancer is connected to tobacco? Sometimes there is a direct connection, the problem is we don't have good research, the only research supporting pot as good is from people without any respect in the field, what we truly need is one of the big research labs to take this on and put an end to the debate. Only you are making an assumption, not me. I never said you did not support these actions for change, I said that was the only "valid" way to do it. My point was that breaking the law and using an illegal drug is not a part of trying to get the change, it is only about getting stoned. As I pointed out in the first part of this post, there are many ways "any" illegal drug use can be hrmful to your children. The people you associate with will tend to be drug abusers themselves (as a general rule, birds of a feather and all that) and who is to say what kind of result can come from drug abusers having access to your child. They may not all share your very strict drug use and may even make things available to her you never would. Remember, certain types of child abuse happens most often from "friends" of the family. Well, I guess the only word you left out was the word "yet". If your invoilved in creating your own supply, then if your ever busted, you don't get charged with the slap on the wrist possession charge, you get slammed with the big charges, and what does that mean for your family? They would be real victims then right? I could never take that chance, my kids are too important to me. First of all, you did not answer my question. I asked what is the result of teaching children that some laws are okay to completely ignore. Children see and know more than the average parent knows. If you teach your child it is okay to break laws if you don't like the laws, then what laws will they decide they don;t like later in life, and will you take the proper blame for it? I would not go that far, but most studies agree about how pot does slow down learning and such, Imagine what you could have done if you had not slowed yourself down with drugs. Well, we agree on one thing at least, there is no way for the government to make any real money from selling pot, so not added money for the fight against other drugs as some have attempted to say. Well, I miss the part about how we are supposed to sit around the bong eating twinkies and watching our lives pass by. Again, I do agree that there are a few people strong enough to keep their drug use under control, but that is a very tiny segment of society and even then, there are problems that can come by using the drugs that have nothing to do with how well you keep it under control. My point is still two parts: 1. any messing with the chemical makeup of our bodies for recreational reasons is not really a good idea. 2. Laws are there for a reason and we have enough people in the world being irresponsible already and trying to say it is okay to pick and choose what laws you will follw because you don't like some of them is just not right. If you can work hard and get the law changed, fine, at least your setting a good example about the proper way to do things. We should not ne teaching our kids that following the laws of the land is subject to our liking the law in question.

Some great points Jhony, I am sure she did not really intend to say he should be hanged, so many times words have several meanings depending how their used. In this case, she clearly was joking, I have no idea why people cannot be allowed to be light hearted and joke about anything as long as it is in this mannor. Intent should be the defining factor, not any one specific word that slips during a program. As far as the Sharptons and jackons of the world, they can care less about race problems themselves, they sit back like sharpshooter waiting on their chance to pounce on situation they can twist into a "racist" onw and gain power from it. Most of the time, these guys go to a place, cause all sorts of unrest, and leave the mess behind to chase the next available publicity stunt. If there racist issues still in America? Yes, but I believe it is not anywhere as big as is claimed, and it is guys like Sharption that keep stuff stirred up and does not allow people to chill out.

First of all, claiming sides with Wez's way of thinking is simply putting a gun to your own head if you want to be taken seriously in any debate. Second, I say the same back at you, just "claiming" that legal pot would cure all the problems will not make it so, there are countless thousands of issues related that your completely ignoring. And after how many years of this legal mind altering drug, we have it's abuse increasing every year, drinking related family problems, not to mention it's being involved in many of the darwin awards tells me that giving the masses another mind altering drug will only make the situation worse, not better. It didn't, that is a false assumption made popular by those only wanting to get stoned in life and making stuff up as they go to try and make their case "sound" better. Drinking saturates our society now more then ever before, and alcohol related problems from direct abuse to torn apart families are higher then ever before. Then there is the children to consider: Children Of Alcoholics | American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry I have no idea where your trying to go with that, I never said anythign about kids in other countries not abusing drugs. In national studies where our children are tested against kids from other developed Countries, we are on pace with them until about 8th grade, then all of a sudden, out kids fail to keep up, they fail to keep motivated to learn, why give them a legal substance that directly makes this problem worse: InfoFacts - Marijuana In fact, we are making some headway in the war on drugs with kids: Percentage of 8th-Graders Who Have Used Marijuana: 2000 - 20.3% 2005 - 16.5% Percentage of 10th-Graders Who Have Used Marijuana 2000 - 40.3% 2005 - 34.1% Percentage of 12th-Graders Who Have Used Marijuana 2000 - 48.8% 2005 - 44.8% With every other indicator of declining morals rising every year, it is something of a miricle to see these numbers decling in my opinion. So just to set this straight, you do not agree that people living their lives in the persuit of altering their mental state for entertainment is a bad thing? Why put any limits on this then? Clearly a society of lazy stoners is not a good thing, I have no idea of your motivation to tear apart society in this way, but don't expect those of us capable of enjoying life without screwing with our minds to agree this kind of experimentation is a good thing. As I have already shown, we are not losing the battle, we are making headway, sometimes things worth while take a lot of time to accomplish. You instant gratification guys need to learn that you cannot have everything in the snap of your fingers. By the way, as eddo pointed out, you cannot make much money on something easily grown. Booze is very difficult to make and requires complicated equipment to distil. There are not too many people that would like the smell of the "buck" either. Making a gallon of quality wisky for example would require a large still and several gallons of buck. Quality pot with a relatively high THC content can be grown in any home and most yards in the summer. It requires only basic care and grows very fast. The average person could grow enough pot to last a year (there are several very easy ways to preserve it) in just a couple months in the back yard of the average suburb home. Automatc sprinklers and the occasional miricle grow application is all it takes. Of course, if you are not sure how to grow pot effectively at home, there are hundreds of thousands of web sites with all the information you will ever need about how to do it well: How To Grow Weed - Home You say it can be inconsistant, I do not agree, but who cares about being consistant when you can have it for free? If the strength is less in a batch, just smoke two taters instead of one, problem solved. No, there would be no new money to speak of for the government to use against the other drugs and America wouls have a monsterious new problem in society to deal with that will make the current drinking problems look like nothing.

Bingo! Once it is legal, anyone who wants it can just grow it themselves, in fact, pot is one of the easiest plants to grow, it can survive in almost any environment above freezing and can be easily grown indoors.

No it is not, your just stuck on defeat, I understand, it is slowly taking over the nation. Like my example of how young girls get pregnant more often after you lower the expectations, the same will be true for drug use. Drinking is legal, and it is the most abused drug in America. Making drug legal increases it's use ten fold. The numbers of daily users will explode, I guess we will have stoners playing football in a pot field for a superbowl commercial. Short term solutions have a lifetime of cost. America is alredy behind most other large nations in areas like education because there is little drive to succeed, to work hard to earn your place in life, I see no reason to make legal a substance that has as it's main side effect to be lazy and sit around watching life go by. Regular drug use to escape reality is not a good thing, and I will never see it as an option. You say we should make money from selling pot, how does that make us any better then the drug dealers selling pot or crack on the corner? That is just making money from other's suffering. Tell me somehting, how many kids go hungry or without shoes because their parents are needing their drug of choice instead? How many medical problems are associated with just smoking tobacco? Pot has more tar than tobacco and is smoked without any kind of filter. There is no "harmless" drug. No, we have enough problems with the one legal drug we have, we don't need to make an already out of control issue of the lack of self control in society made worse by giving them a bigger voriety of choice to screw their minds, and lives up with the governments approval.

Being a parent is a tough job, I have three kids and I can tell you, I worry and plan for them more than anything else. I am always trying to come up with new ways to get through to my kids from punnishments that stick, to open discussions and debates about every day situations to help them learn to be critical thinkers, not robots. When I saw this story, I thought, wow, that is a great mom: FOXNews.com - 'Meanest Mom on Planet' Sells Teen Son's Car After Finding Booze Under Seat - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News Some may see her as too strict, but she set the rules, and she showed her son that there are penalties for breaking the rules. I predict this boy becomes a very successful man. I believe there are so many failures these days because there is nobody teaching kids to expect failures and how to live inside the rules. Kids seem to want everything now and if they cannot have it now, they go into temper tantrums. I'm sorry but the real world requires very hard work to succeed, if you expect to get everything handed to you, your gonna end up hating the government and attacking everything out of bitterness, like someone we all know here on this forum. The point is, your every move is a lesson to your kids, they see everything and learn their values from you. If you are soft or weak, they will suffer for your lack.

Like thinking drug abuse will just go away if you make it legal? Please. Don't play stupid, you know darn well that most people are simply too weak to be allowed unrestricted access to drugs. Look at the mess we have with just one legal drug, Look at how many lives are a mess with booze, we will double these numbers the second we make other methods of getting wasted legal. A big part of the drinking problem is the public perception of it being acceptable, the same will be true for every drug we make legal. So, giving up on the "war on drugs" will only make the drug problems worse, not better. Let's give this a different spin to see how humans behave. At one time, it was considered not illegal, but not acceptable for young girls to get pregnant outside of marriage. As time has passed, that outdated concept has been completely removed from society and we have the biggest problem with unwed young mothers we have ever seen and it keeps getting worse every year. The response was to make abortions legal so there would not be so many unwanted children in the world, and 1.2 million dead babies killed each year still leaves us with millions of unwanted children. Dropping standards and morals is not the answer, quitting on something just because it is difficult is not the answer. If you don't try, you always fail.

There is no failure except in no longer trying. ~Elbert Hubbard Supposing you have tried and failed again and again. You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down. ~Mary Pickford The only time you don't fail is the last time you try anything - and it works. ~William Strong It is you quitters that scare me. America was not forged by those that gave up when they found difficult times, it was forged by those that had the backbone to suffer through the difficult times and succeed. The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed. ~Lloyd Jones

Wez, I am not going to bother trying to post that wacko logic you spouted, I will simply say again, if you cannot take full responsibility for the life you took, then every attack you make on the government is bull. Your saying it is okay for you to kill your own child for selfish reasons, but if the government does it, that is wrong, I cannot understand how you can be so rediclious. You say it is wrong to take a life to defend your way of life right? So if someone was trying to kill your mother, or anyone else you loved, you would just sit there and watch, not try to stop the killer right? I can only believe you say these completely crazy things just to get attention.