timesjoke

Entire story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303058,00.html So now we are giving 6th graders birth control pills, what is next? There is a reason adults get charged with rape when they have sex with children, those same reasons should be reasons to not supply them with more excuses to be sexualy active. The "pill" does not protect the child against disease and giving immature children the "pill" will cause them to have a false sence of security and become vulnerable to these diseases. Bad idea in my opinion. But, as we get more and more people have children but not being true parents, I guess the Government must step in to fill the gap, so maybe this kind of thing is just a fact of modern life.

You know what they say, the most painful thing to many people is the truth. Agnostic people do not take sides, you have taken sides and even attack believers calling them stupid, you are not truly agnostic based on your actions. Your possitions are clearly Athiest so if you want me to stop calling you Athiest, stop talking like one. Remember, actions speak louder than words. So your Athiest. Why does the truth hurt you so? You can call me a christian hetrosexual all day long and it does not bother me but call a homosexual a homosexual and he gets angry and the same seems to be true with those of the Athiest belief structure, I can only believe it is based in their being ashamed of themselves. But your attacks on religion in general and religious people in specific shows your true leanings. But you have decided even if you don't want to openly admit it. You have openly attacked religion, that is something an Agnostic would never do. There is nothing stopping an Athiest from doing things like helping to deliver hot meals to those that need it. I have been doing this for over 20 years and not one non-religious person has ever come down to help out. The concept of being an Athiest is based is selfishness. A need to do what you want without feeling shame or guilt for being selfish. That is why there are no non-religious groups of any kind helping communities. By the way, do you think these helping groups just came from nowhere? All of these groups started from nothing, my own church started out as a small country church and we now fund three orphanages in third world Countries. If Athiests were interested in helping communities in any way, they could easily start out as we did but there is not even one Athiest group out there helping comminities. Nothing is stopping them from forming their own groups if the desire is there to do so. You clearly say there is no way a believer can be intelligent, that is saying they are stupid, I am not going to play semantics with you. That is not what you said, I can't speak on what you meant to say. You say we believe in something "so obviously wrong" and again, that is calling believers stupid, there is no other way to take that statement. Religious beliefs are not obviously wrong, they are wrong "for you" but not for me and your constant stream of attacks and insults clearly show how intolerant you are. There you go again, you say we are stupid in a back hand way over and over, you just keep switching the words around. Now your just playing stupid, you know you attacked all religious believers, and your constand belittling our beliefs shows your true nature, even if you don't want to admit it. So just maybe I am not stupid? See what I mean? You can't talk to a religious person without making direct or sideways attacks about them being stupid. Stop acting like one then, I don't know you so all I can do is judge you according to what you say and in this case, what you attack. You keep putting down religious ideals and calling religious people stupid from many different angles, Agnostic people don't do that. I have many Agnostic friends and as a part of their standards, they will never talk about religion from either side, their belief is based on taking a side, but you have obviously taken a side based on your open hostility.

It is a complicated question but in the attempt to keep my answer simple, It comes down to how it is done. When an Athiest talks about religion, it is with a hatred, an intolerance that goes beyond normal discussion. It is the bad attitude that all Athiests have tword religion that makes it bad. You have called all believers stupid several times while I have never called you stupid as an example. I already did long before you asked, if you could not bother to read the thread, that is not my fault, I always reply to honest questions but I don't feed a lazy man's request for information already given. Calling believers names is intolerance, being hateful is intolerance. Open contempt is intolerance. Believe what you want inside your own heart, but when you spew your hatred tword religion in a public way, you are being intolerant.

The lack of evidence to support her claim of abuse is not conjecture, it is established fact. If your holding a loaded shotgun, you have many options available to you that does not include shooting a sleeping man in the back. That is murder in cold blood. I would agree to doing what it takes if your in danger, but she could have easily gotten away without killing her husband. My biggest problem is her being able to soil her husbands reputation and for all intents and purposes get away with murder without even one shread of evidence to support her claims. Now it looks like she will be awarded custody of these girls to further prove that a father's life is meaningless compared to a woman's ability to cry on the stand.

With 90% of the world believing in some kind of religion, your pathetically small numbers are the exception, not the rule. There will always be people that are confused or even mentally ill who "say" they believe one thing or another but in reality they do not. Just recently a group of homosexuals crashed a catholic church and dressed as nuns, disrupted the proceedings. We can't explain most of the crazy stuff people do but I can tell you that false believers do not define me or other true believers. All morals are based on religious standards. You were raised in a society that had established religious based morals and even if you reject religion now, you cannot ignore that your exposure to these religious based morals did effect you. As you got older, the religious based morals got more diluted and that is why even you can see there are problems, but not understanding the true basis of the existence of morals, you can only talk about the symptoms, not the real root of the problem. Ten comandments. And those without these written in stone morals make excuses for their loss of morals, like killing a baby in the womb. Horrible acts become acceptable without a religious based set of morals. As with any rule, there are exceptions, I have never studied these people so I cannot explain their situation but as I always say, God made man, man made the many religions, who is to say that these people are not following God's plan in their own way? And that selfish attitude can take many forms, like the Athiest religion. Being religious does not mean you become perfect overnight. Being religious is a constant journey, not a destination. The differance between being religious and not being religious from a morals point of view is the standards. With religion, you have a clearcut standard, even if you fail to always reach that standard because of human frailty and mistakes. Without religion, morals become flexable or even invisible based on public desires. Excuses for immoral behavoir become acceptable without a religious standard.

Here you clearly admit that Hitler was an Athiest. He cannot be a Christian if he does not believe that God exists. If you are incapable of even taking ownership of your own admissions, I see no real reason to continue talking with you. Hitler was an Athiest, I am done if you cannot accept that basic fact.

What if "pretending" to be something you are not can have it's advantages? Does a child molester run around saying in public what he truly is? Or does he pretend to be something he is not to get access to what he desires? That is Hitler in a nutshell, he was an Athiest, but he did not want to admit it in public I agree, so being as you already admitted Hitler was an Athiest believer, stop calling him anything else, accept him for what he was, an Athiest, one of your own. What does a system have to do with anything, you are what you want to be, not what a government or a piece of paper says you are. Hitler was an Athiest, even you admit he was an Athiest so obviously his actions were that of an Athiest. Stone age people were eating, raising children, breathing, hunting, all sorts of things, are all of these things wrong just because they were done a long time ago? If anything, modern religions have proven themselves by surviving the test of time. While Greek gods and such have come and gone, other faiths like christianity has endured the forge of time and that speaks to how true it really is. But you do hate us religious people, you don't want to admit it here but your disrespectful tone and comments like this stone age snide comment shows you as intollerant and hateful to us, that is the most telling aspect of the Athiest condition we can possibly see. Keep trying, you will get the hang of it.

An off topic discussion was starting in another thread so I figured I would take it to a new thread. We were talking about how the Democrats are governed by the wackos and the dredges of society and I would takit a step further, I would say they are owned and operated by the completely corrupt and hate filled people in existence. If a conservative does something even mildly wrong, every Democrat will pounce on his back but they turn an blind eye to their own misdeeds. Over the years they have turned the worse society has to offer into their leaders. Bill clinton committed purgury and is still the most powerful Democrat alive. I have seen these Democrats not only let one of their number get away with having sex with a minor but gave him millions of dollars to get him reepected for 6 more terms in office but these same people lose their minds when a conservative only attempte to do the same thing (still sick in my book). The thing that drives them mad is there is no desire to keep a conservative scumbag in office, we shun and distance ourselves from our scum while they embrace their scum. Look at Craig, we have removed him from his committies and he is no longer involved ijn the leadership meetings. He will never get a dime from Republicans to ever try for office again, even if he refuses to step down, he is still removed by situation, but even that is not enough because the Republicans are asking he be removed from office under ethics charges. Right now, the Democratic party is completely controlled by groups like moveon.org and their agendas are some of the most extreme things you have ever dreamed of. Billery is wanting things like $5,000 given to every child borne in America, including illegals that manage to stay here long enough to give birth in an American hospital.

Those that want to anyway, be honest, most parents don't even care about thier kids and want the government to take over their parenting jobs for them. That is why public schools teach things like home economics and sex education.

Not assumption, fact, over 100 million people have died in the persuit of the Athiest agenda. The point of my post was that your own open display of intollerance tword religion shows everyone how intollerant Atheists in the past were capable of the atrocities they performed.

Hugo, sheik already knows this to be true, I have covered it and you have covered it but he will cling to the impossible possition that they were Christians because admitting the truth of their being Athiest would make him look bad. That is why I used him against himself, he was not raised an Athiest but is an Athiest now, just like Hitler was raised Catholic but decided to follow the Athiest religion long before he took power. A person does not need the public's permission to be any religion or an Athiest, there is no need to announce it or tell anyone, a person's true beliefs is in his heart, not on his sleeve or on a piece of paper. Great point. Well, that is my point for every aspect of the liberal following. They seem to gather the bottom feeding scum of humanity, always trying to force the masses into submitting to their desires instead of learning to live in the world that made them possible. I don't hate Athiest followers but they hate me and that distinction is telling. By the way sheik, I don't think you are stupid, I just see your admitting Hitler was an Athiest but not wanting to admit his actions were governed by his "true" beliefs is a tad silly. I am sure you are very smart in many ways. But I will admit your not using quotes properly makes it more difficult to understand and reply to your posts.

You have proven nothing. I have proved he admitted to hating all religion, he believed in evolution, and you even admitted he was an Athiest, that means everything he did was done as an Athiest. Hitler was never a Christian, his family was, be he was not. You already admitted he was an Athiest, so you now trying to say he was a Christian is simply stupidity in action, you can't have it both ways.

So he was an Athiest, and that means everything he did was as an Athiest, including the deaths of millions of people. Case closed.

And this makes my point of how intolerant Athiests are. No wonder they have killed hundreds of millions of people when they get control of a large army.

Our actions are our deeds, other wise known as actions speak louder than words. Hitler desired the complete removal of all religion and believed in evolution, that is Athiest in actions and deeds. So, his murder of millions of people were the actions of an Athiest because he was an Athiest at the time he did them, as you have already admitted. No, it is you who want to hide fromt he truth, not me. You just admited he was an Athiest, that means all his deeds were as an Athiest, you can't worm your way out of this one. Hitler stepped away from his religious family and never was involved with the church as an adult, he was never a Christian in any way. Being a Christian is more then being baptised or even standing in a church, it is a belief structure, it is morals and good deeds, Hitler never shared in a Christian belief structure or any other Christian action, he was never a Christian. That is why I have attempted to give you examples of a false face, to tell you just because someone is wearing a certain disguise, that does not mean he is what he pretends to be. But obviously, that concept is beyond your understanding. I have laready posted it, please try reading the entire thread, it helps.

It is their product, they own it. I agree price fixing is wrong but if you made somethign with your own hands, who am I to tell you what your creation should be sold for? You ask for what you want and the consumer either agrees or does not buy. It "helps" to set the standard, even Wal-Mart is selling PS3's at MSRP. So you are saying that the price would not have changed if consumers stopped buying the records? That is the part you are missing, even if a company sets an unfair price through price fixing, it is still up to the consumer to let go of his money to buy the product and with all the sales that were made, I have to say that the consumer spoke and said it was worth it even if it was set higher then it needed to be. Like my example of a Mercades, there is a higher profit margin for a mercades than a ford, that is because the makers of the Mercades feels their product should demand a greater profit. It is the consumer that tells them if their correct or not through their spending. It was a general "you" speaking on anyone who feels they should steal music based on their feelings that they paid too much. In some cases they do. That is why Wal-mart sells bread for the same price as Publix, that is why I used the example of bread. Bread companies will not allow one store to undersell neighboring stores by very much before they stop supplying that store with product. Places like Wal-mart like to sell below cost to run other businesses out of business then raise prices. Many companies know this and will not allow their products to be used in that way. I witnessed local bread companies do this at my Wal-mart. There was no bread in my local Wal-Mart for over a week until they agreed to not sell bread below a reasonable profit, so in a way, that is price fixing, but in the long run, it is to protect consumers. I agree that it is wrong for all record lables to get together and set prices, but as with my Wal-Mart example, somethimes price fixing can protect consumers. I agree, but with all products, it is still the consumer that must decide what they are willing to pay. For example, solar panels are a great idea but also very expensive. The reason all Americans do not have them mounted on their homes is because it costs too much no matter what margin you put on it. You can have the best product in the world and only set a 5% margin over true cost and still not find consumers who are willing to buy your product, that is why I say consumers set all prices.

And I countered with showing how a mercades has a large profit margin but you don't steal them. Stealing is stealing, profit margin does not change that fact. No, I said they can ask for any pricew they want, it is their product. Such as the MSRP on millions of products all over the world. You are trying to mix open markets with price fixing, that is a completely different discussion, but still does not make stealing right. It is only price fixing if people conspire to control prices, not if they just ask a higher price. Anyway, even if they did ask for $5 extra per cd, fine, get your refund, but being as you never spent a penny, how can you complain about them? You say they are wrong for asking for too much money for their product but at least the consumer got something for their money but you, you took something without paying for it so that is ten times more wrong and dishonest then what you are claiming the record companins did. It is their property in the first place, maybe it is overpriced, but it is still theirs, not yours. Do you think anything is offered in the market without a certain degree of price fixing? Like oil? That is why I gave the example of bread being priced about the same reguardless of the cost to produce it from one producer to the next. You would not have spent that money if you though it was not worth it. Supply and demand, without the demand, the record companies would have made changes. The way to fight things like this is to stop buying their music (not stealing it either because that makes you worse then them) and let them decisde to either lower prices or stop producing music. Two wrongs do not make a right.

No, apparently you don't understand basic economics. Yes, there is price fixing in many areas and the conspiracy is a criminal act, but you are not understanding the basic idea that prices have a balancing point without anyone doing anything. Again, things like bread find a common price point based on consumer spending. It is consumers that set most prices. But we go astray of the point, stealing music is still stealing no matter how you try to justify stealing.

But you are claiming that Hitler was a Christian based only on his past. Either the past is relivant or it is not relivant. That is why I discussed how you were raised. If you were raised something other than an Athiest but became an Athiest later, why can't you accept the truth that Hitler did the exact same thing? If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it is a duck, even if there is an idiot swearing up and down it is a turtle. Hitler was an Athiest in Deed and beliefs, that is reality. Athiest leaders have killed over 100 million people, facts are facts, even if they cause you discomfort.

Is it? Have you ever heard of the MSRP? What makes it illegal is when people conspire to set prices at a certain level, not if they find a certain level based on consumer buying. Go to the grocery store and look at what a certain kind of thing costs. Bread for example, a basic loaf of breead will cost about the same amount with generic names being a tad cheaper than the name brands. This is what I am talking about. Free enterprise says anyone can ask for any price they want and it is up to the consumer to decide if that price is worth it or not. Obviously the record companies find lots of customers to buy at their current prices so the consumer has spoken. This high price is why the artist can make so much money from their work. Again, is it right to take something you did not earn or pay for? Stealing is stealing, no matter if it is a piece of candy or a Mercades.

So sheik, you believe that anyone raised in a religious family must believe everything their family believed? You were raised an Athiest and that is why you believe what you do? If I steal a cop uniform and put it on does that make me a cop in reality? You my friend are playing stupid, you know damn well that Hitler was an Athiest, I even posted his own words saying religion needed to be removed and he believed in evolution but you run around with your hands over your ears so you don't have to acknoledge the truth. Just because Hitler was raised under a certain belief structure, that does not mean he believed in what his family believed, If you are too stulid to undersatand that we each have our own beliefs reguardless of what our parents believe, I cannot help you but it does explain how you can be an Athiest. Scream lies all you want, Hitler was Athiest in both belief and action. Athiest leaders like him have killed 100 million people, over ten times more than anyone else in the entire history of religious based violence. I have provided proof that he admits to being an Athiest, while all you can offer is his family believed in religion so he can never have his own beliefs, what a laugh you would desperately cling to that flimsy crap.

You have good points Wez. That is why I always make the point that God made man, man made the many religions. Man has never made anything that is perfect so obviously any religion man makes is doomed to have mistakes. But, man's mistakes are not God's mistakes. God has given us basic concepts to live by and even if someone does not like the idea of God, his principles of how to live are still sound from a purely good society basis. The world is too perfect for it all to be one long series of beneficial accidents after another. Everything must start somewhere and if we keep peeling back layers we discover that science cannot explain the most important things about life. like how living creatures completely changed their DNA to turn into different species when all science says it is impossible for that to happen. Just the human reproductive system is more complex than every creation man has ever made put together. Add to that the thousands of other complex systems in our bodies and the thousands in each other lifeform and we start to see a level of improbability forming impossible to ignore. There just is not that much good luck in this world. Fact, all life comes from other life. There is not one living thing that comes from nothing.

Free enterprise. There is nothing stopping them from raising the price on anything we buy. Gas, bread, songs, apples, everything costs something to bring to the consumer and there must be a profit added to make all that work worth it to that supplier. Many new products come to market every year and fail miserably because consumers don't feel the price if reasonable for it. The same is true for songs. If everyone stopped buying the high priced albums, then the record companies would change something, either adding value to promote sales or reducing their prices. The domino effect would be to pay less to the artists as well but again, it is simple economics. There is a good arguement that those stealing music are the ones keeping the prices so high. Think of it like hospitals. They over charge those that can pay to offset the loss from those that do not pay.

Damn, I hope they don't take that step. I have two worlds of belief that I follow in my life, one is my faith and the other is the devotion to personal responsibility I feel is necessary to live in a society. In my world, killing an unborn child is something that would destroy me completely so I think I can relate to what you are feeling at this point. As you already pointed out, there are thousands of loving people that would love to take this child and raise it as their own. Life is a miracle, it should not be created without proper consideration but if it is created in that way, two wrongs do not make a right. How far down the road of despair has society gone when we make even the womb a dangerious place for children. I know the balancing point you are trying to keep FW and I respect it. I don't think I could have kept it up this long. I think you have given them the facts and been neutral long enough though and need to help them not do something so horrible. I will pray for you and them for the next few days, God bless you to find the right words.

It still surprises me how blinded some Athiest followers are to their own bull. Let me give you two examples to help you understand the concept of showing a false face to the world: 1 sheik joins the march of dimes and has fundraisers for their cause. After a year, he steals millions of dollars and runs off to a remote island to live in the lap of luxery. In this example, does sheik represent the march of dimes true mission in life or did sheik take advantage of the march of dimes to serve his own desires? 2 Jhony goes out with friends and after many drinks and burnt taters, he hooks up with a pretty girl and spends a drunk, stoned wild night with her. The next morning he wakes up to find out that the pretty girl turns out to be a pretty boy. In this example, did jhony have straight sex because he "thought" the other person was a women or did he have gay sex because the reality is she was a he? Hitler was an Athiest in reality. He used religion to his own ends at the beginning of his grip on power but his true self was very clear as his actions and frank discussions showed later. The idea Hitler was a Christian just because he was baptised is completely stupid and juvinile. Is that to say all people can never change if they are baptised? Of course not. Hitler did not need anyone else to give him permission to believe whatever he wanted to believe just like everyone on this forum. To say Hitler was a Christian after the murders and was openly supporting evolution beliefs is the hight of stupidity and clearly based in the Athiests wanting to distance themselves from the truth of how violent and intolerant Athiest followers truly are. Jhony5, you did call all religios followers stupid and in the same post you just showed, you did it again with a backwards way of saying the same thing: It is not obviously wrong to everyone, just to you and your fellow Athiest followers. By the way, nice try with the excuse making but the real reason there are no non-religious people helping others around the world is because they don't want to. Look in any town and who is it running the soup kitchens? There are more help programs run by churches than the government, maybe that should tell you something. Morals are dropping all over the world and so is religious believers, that is not chance. The fall of Rome happened right after they attempted to change their faith. By the way, do any of you know how the job of page in modern government got it's name? In late Roman times after their decline to very immoral behavoir was clear, it was a status symbol for politicians to have a young boy lover. That boy lover was called a "page".