Abortion [Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life]

i'm pro choice.. its the girl's own choice, not anyone else's and sometimes people just don't have any other choice. like, what about a young girl and her parents were going to kick her out if she kept the baby? and she had no other place to stay? then what would happen? what's wrong is the fact that A LOT of people just throw abortion around like its nothing and have them over and over again and i completely disagree with that but it should be kept legal for those few cases where there is no other option.
 
azemkamikaze03 said:
When you where two months old chances are you wouldn't care if your mother was dieing or not. It's becuase the younger you are the less developed your brain/soul is. So just becuase a 2 week old embryo can't show emotion or thought does not mean it does not have it.
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lol
less brain=less soul (sounds stupid but you know what I mean) was exactly what I was talking about...

but I meant more about whether the foetus has a soul, not whether and when you're able to have emotions.
I believe infants are pretty smart, they just don't have the physical abilities to use their intelligence.
 
Friðbjörn said:
Yes I do. I do in fact think I have seen some. I however don't believe a body can possess a soul, without a brain. But that's just my opinion.
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so then how do ghost and spirits live on with out a brain? No physical matter to hold onto!? So in fact a soul could be given to an unborn child even if it is just cells. it does not have to have a physical matter to hold on to because ghost and spirits don't either... right!?


You asked her to prove that the soul goes to "heaven" and doesn't get a change to live. Prove that it doesn't.

I'll I have to say is that it takes one mentally disturbed person to have an abortion. That is a life your killing whether you like it or not. Think about the things that child could do with his/her life. Think about it. Any child that isn't wanted could be given up for adoption. Any woman [no matter the age] who has an abortion is not worthy of EVER becoming a parent.

Abortion should only be right if someone was raped. But I also think that that girl should have proof that she was indeed raped. You people amaze me. Abortion is wrong. I dont think I could EVER go through with it. Even if I was raped... I couldn't do it. Thats a soul, a life, a child.
It's not a toy. It's not something you can just throw away. Obviously, people seem to think that it is, but it's not. Your NOT a god. Therefore you dont have the right to choose whether something lives or dies even if it's before the birth. That child has no say in whether you kill it or not. Fuetus, cells, heartbeat... whatever.. IT'S STILL A CHILD.
That child... that baby doesn't get to say on whether he/she wants to die. I bet you would if you were in that situation. You'd want a say in whether you live or die. That child doesn't get the say becuase to you he's a mistake. And anyone to call a child a mistake is certianly not worthy at all.
 
well the way everyone is talking about it.. does having a soul really mean that you're alive? i mean, if you look at christian beliefs your soul goes up to heaven when you die and well.. the person who once contained that sould is dead.. so really kinda its saying that you kill a soul instead of a person and that's not really murder.. i don't think. o_o er.. maybe i'm just not making much sense. i can't really say what i'm trying to say in words.
 
this may sound i bit weird after thinking alot i have come to a kinda strange thought.
what if we are not born with souls but we have to earn one, like build one during our life? Like we are born without anything like a blank convass and empty void for a soul. But what we have to do is create one along the way. i dont know how to explain myself with is frustraing me. erm...like with each good deed we do we like earn soul kudos.ermm...so your souls grows with ur sense or morality. so seeing as baby are born as blank canvasses with no objection to what is write and wrong then abortion in my point of view is moralily ok.....

please ignore me, i dont know what the **** im talking about...:(
 
BlOnDe4Lp said:
well the way everyone is talking about it.. does having a soul really mean that you're alive? i mean, if you look at christian beliefs your soul goes up to heaven when you die and well.. the person who once contained that sould is dead.. so really kinda its saying that you kill a soul instead of a person and that's not really murder.. i don't think. o_o er.. maybe i'm just not making much sense. i can't really say what i'm trying to say in words.
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Ok... if you do look at it that way... if you kill a soul then you killed the human body it belonged to. That's murder. Whether or not the soul lives on. It does not live on earth with other people. It does not get a chance to inneract with humans. A soul is inside and attached to a human body until it dies and then after that... I dont think anyone is sure what happens.
Therfore a body [that is made of cells & organisms] that is killed even before birth with lose its soul/spirit. So it is murder because if you kill a soul then you killed the human it was attached to. Therfore [under law] you have committed murder whether or not the human had actually been born or not.



Sygy said:
this may sound i bit weird after thinking alot i have come to a kinda strange thought.
what if we are not born with souls but we have to earn one, like build one during our life? Like we are born without anything like a blank convass and empty void for a soul. But what we have to do is create one along the way. i dont know how to explain myself with is frustraing me. erm...like with each good deed we do we like earn soul kudos.ermm...so your souls grows with ur sense or morality. so seeing as baby are born as blank canvasses with no objection to what is write and wrong then abortion in my point of view is moralily ok.....

please ignore me, i dont know what the **** im talking about...:(
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So what you just said practically means that if a baby who passed away a few days after being born doesn't have a soul. Therfore he never lived. Which doesn't make any since, but okay.
 
holy cow some of this stuff is just WAY over my head. i think we're getting into more spiritual death of a person than abortion in general, don't you think..?
 
LPpinkfreak821 said:
so then how do ghost and spirits live on with out a brain? No physical matter to hold onto!? So in fact a soul could be given to an unborn child even if it is just cells. it does not have to have a physical matter to hold on to because ghost and spirits don't either... right!?


You asked her to prove that the soul goes to "heaven" and doesn't get a change to live. Prove that it doesn't.
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haha
okay I admit, my opinion might seem a bit complex or whatever...but I believe in spirits yes, but for them to function within a body, the brain needs to work...I did absolutely not rule out spiritual activity outside bodies...just read the post

prove that it doesn't? I wasn't contesting the person's theory. I said:
me said:
1. You can't prove that or disprove.
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Besides, I believe in god, don't lecture me on Heaven.
 
BlOnDe4Lp said:
holy cow some of this stuff is just WAY over my head. i think we're getting into more spiritual death of a person than abortion in general, don't you think..?
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Yea & no. We're talking about death, but being that having an abortion is like killing which is dying which is death.



Friðbjörn said:
Besides, I believe in god, don't lecture me on Heaven.
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I wasn't trying to lecture you on anything, sweetie.
 
So I'm pretty much going to reiterate my views on this.

I am Pro-Life in most cases. However, in the cases of rape, incest, and health of the mother, I am Pro-Choice.

Let me address the Pro-Choice portion first, as I do not feel as strongly about it:

Rape:
If a woman is raped. It is not her fault, or responsibility to give birth to the child. She made no errors, she didn't suffer from lack of judgement, somebody forced sex upon her, why should she have to deal with a baby that she had no control over.

Now, you may argue that she should give the baby up for adoption. Consider this, that child is going to grow up. That child is going to know their real mother gave them up for adoption. It's like one of the top four subjects on shows like Maury and Montel. Setting aside the emotional effects that would surface from merely knowing your mother put you up for adoption, whether it be because she was irresponsible, or could not raise you properly, a person would have a hard time dealing with finding out how they were conceived. Not only do they know their mother did not love them enough to keep them, and that they were given away, but they'd end up finding out that their father wanted nothing to do with them, they were not created out of love, they weren't even created by choice. That's got to have a devastating effect on a person. So give the baby the right to live, and also the right to suffer from depression, and knowing they weren't loved by either biological parent? I don't think so.

Incest:
This is a bit more of a controversial subject. Ever wonder why it's illegal? It's not illegal just because having sex with your sister is sick. It is illegal because it creates abnormal mutations in the baby. 'Normal' children have to very different sets of genes from each parent. But children from the same parents have a lot of the same ones. So if two siblings were to reproduce, their offspring would possess too many similar genes, which would cause them to be deformed, mentally ill, or even physically handicapped.

Now, I know those traits are possible with every couple, but the possibility is increased with siblings. There is no saying what kind of things would happen to the baby, what kind of defects it could have. But the possibility of the baby really really having to suffer greatly outweighs that of a normal, healthy baby.

My decision: Abort.

Health of the Mother:
This is indisuptable. If the Mother is dying because of the baby, abort. The loss of one life just to give a baby a chance does not sit well with me. An eye for an eye, a life for a life, it's not right. The Mother deserves to live more than the baby.



Now every single other possibility of having a child I am Pro-Life.

Let me explain.

Say you're a teenager, the ripe age of sixteen, and you get pregnant. You weren't raped, you did it because you wanted to. Whether it be because you loved the person, or you thought it'd make them want to stay with you. You only get one choice when it comes to these things. You *CHOSE* to have sex, you do not get to choose to abort the baby. I'm sorry, but saying "Oh, I'm only a sixteen year old girl, and my boyfriend left me for some other girl who was hot and wasn't pregnant, I shouldn't have this baby." does not ****ing cut it. You didn't say you were too young for sex, you sure as hell are not too young to raise that baby.

Sex is not a thing of pleasure. Today's society has implanted it into young minds that sex, drugs, and alcohol are the cool thing. They're not. Sex is for reproduction. It was for reproduction 'back in the day', and guess what, it still is. So if you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex. It's just that simple.

So say you're too poor to have a baby. Oh well. Deal with it, you too made the choice to have sex. You have options, people aren't just stiffed with no chance. Join the military. Work your ass off. You don't have to be poor and raise a child. Get off your ass and find work, find a [legal] way to get money. Pretend if this child grows up under a roof, with food on the table, you'll get the ultimate orgasm in your later years. Laugh all you want, but ultimately an orgasm is what led you to have this baby, so let it lead you to make this baby have an awesome life.

See, there really is no acceptable way to abort a baby if you've chosen to have sex. Babies are not a mistake, no, but the act of having sex when you cannot support a baby is a mistake.

If you've read all of this, congratulations, you've been granted immunity from arrogance, for now. If you think this post is too long, you shouldn't even be discussing this topic. There is no right or wrong, yes or no argument. There is no correct way to go about things, only logical guidelines.

kthx.
 
Lets take this into accounts if you add the number of abortions due to incest and posible maternal or fetal health you still hardly scrape a surface of the majoirty of abortions do to just not being ready. Pregnancy do to incest/rape is infact so minimal its hard to take account for.

The Mother deserves to live more than the baby.
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Eh. If this is the case and lets say she became pregnant by choice she basically agreed to bring this kid to life. To do what it takes to make sure it lives. So essentially death qualifies. I mean I'm not trying to make it sound like Oh she has to die, but chances are the mother has expirienced life to an extent versus the baby who has not.

As for:

Now, you may argue that she should give the baby up for adoption. Consider this, that child is going to grow up. That child is going to know their real mother gave them up for adoption. It's like one of the top four subjects on shows like Maury and Montel. Setting aside the emotional effects that would surface from merely knowing your mother put you up for adoption, whether it be because she was irresponsible, or could not raise you properly, a person would have a hard time dealing with finding out how they were conceived. Not only do they know their mother did not love them enough to keep them, and that they were given away, but they'd end up finding out that their father wanted nothing to do with them, they were not created out of love, they weren't even created by choice. That's got to have a devastating effect on a person. So give the baby the right to live, and also the right to suffer from depression, and knowing they weren't loved by either biological parent? I don't think so.
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Alot of children are revealed that they're adopted at a crucial age. That is why kids get affected the way they do. They don't just grow up disturbed, that is why it is best to inform someone about this kind of thing when they are not in their teens. That is a mistake people do. When children need security most they are stripped of it. Hence personality issues ect. They wont suffer from depression, maybe a period of period of depression but nothing permanent. It provides a similar blow to one as does someone who looses a loved one. Obviously you have thoes who may take it worse than others, but I feel as though if you let them know from a young age before they hit 11 they will adapt to this understanding that they are adopted. If you tell a teenager they are adopted no **** its gunna destroy them! i mean they have tons of pressure on them and this adds to it. So if they know from a while back this will be easier to cope with. Also if an you live with your adoptive parents since birth the effects are not as bad for the majority. They go threw a hard time(as does everyone) but they accept it and move on. There is no severe depression cycle that they are burdened with(usually) and I mean if you let them know at a good time they wont think they grew up living this lie.




Let's imagine first a case where you are in the position of the fetus. You are knocked out and kidnapped; your captor hides you on the plane of an innocent third party. She, the unfortunate pilot, doesn't discover you until you come to at 10,000 feet. Your presence has been forced on her without her knowledge or consent. She states plainly that you don't have any right to be there, and she wants you out. Do you have the obligation to jump out? Or to let her push you out? Or does she have the obligation to land in a safe place before she makes you leave?

In a more complex one, you are on a mountain, and I attack you and throw you into a place filled with rocks that will tumble down below if given a push. The only way you can leave that spot is by causing a landslide. On a perch below is someone else I also forced there. If there's a landslide, their perch will be destroyed and they'll fall to their death. There is no way for your calls for help to be heard; you have to wait until you are discovered missing and a rescue party is sent. Let's assume that you are in no danger; one of your hobbies is to be a survivalist; you know how to attract game birds. You are able to live off them until found, but that will take nine months. The other person is also able to survive because your efforts to attract birds will inevitably attract birds to their perch, too.
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thought these where good analogies.
 
With this question.. I think there is no right, or wrong answer.. because some one always have another statement that will make you second guess yourself.

Like alot of people have stated before, there are alot of things to take into consideration..
Its like learning how to spell in English class.. In there is always an exeption to every rule that you learn.. and you end up uncertain of youself....
Like, you think abortion is wrong, but is it wrong if I was raped? So you end up confused..

As of right now I stand by saying,I think murder is murder, no matter what the age..

but I wanna gather my thought a little more.. and I will post again.
 

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