Holocaust Myth?

[builder]

I think the real point is, snafu, that the holocaust is just one of many, and it is now old hat. Very old hat. The emotive value is all but gone, but just watch your local cinema for the latest remake or rehash to fire up the hatred again.

Fact: Korean war. 1,858,000 to 3,822,000 Chinese and North Koreans dead, wounded or lost in battle. 1,271,244 to 1,818,410 allied casualties total.

Now would you prefer to be killed with gas, or get covered in burning petroleum jelly, or step on a land mine and die of gangrene to the legs?

It's war. From what I can gather, Hitler actually wanted to deport most of the Jews in the compounds, but nobody wanted them.

War is hell. Rehashing it is pointless emotive bullshit.
Using atrocities carried out during wartime for political gain, is tantamount to blackmail.

Next.

 

[quarky]

Evidence please. Links to details and documents, or do you expect people to take your word over ALL the contrary evidence posted so far in this thread?

try these
http://www.ushmm.org/
http://www.holocaust-history.org/
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/
http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/blholocaust.htm
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html

I ask you this, if the holocaust didn't happen, how did approx 6 million jews die? Did they all do the lemming dance?
I think the main problem people have with the idea of the holocaust or any act of genoside (the holocaust is not the first time, or last time this type of thing has happened), is that people do not want to admit to themselves that we all have this type of zenophobia within us.

Weather you believe in creation or evolution, the fact is that humanity has risen to the top of the food chain because of one simple fact. Humanity is the worlds most efficient killer, and with the right training and motivation, humanity embraces the killer within with ease.

 

[hugo]

Never debate with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. The holocaust was real. We still should not give Isreal one damn cent.

http://remember.org/History.root.rev.html

 

[fullauto]

Never debate with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. The holocaust was real. We still should not give Isreal one damn cent.

http://remember.org/History.root.rev.html

The holocaust DID happen... however, it was not a JEWISH thing alone...

 

[Skaterdude409]

well who else did they make wear the star of david to identify them?

 

[fullauto]

Auschwitz is central to the Holocaust legend. If it can be proved that the official stories we have been told about Auschwitz are not true, the entire fabric of the Holocaust ultimately has to unravel. What, then, did happen at Auschwitz?

On April 18, 1945, in the immediate aftermath of World War II, The New York Times reported that 4 million people died at Auschwitz. This "fact" was reported over and over again during the next half-century, without being questioned.

However, on January 26, 1995, commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Auschwitz liberation, both The Washington Post and The New York Times itself reported that the Polish authorities had determined that, at most, 1.5 million people (of all races and religions)

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Part of a really great article I read a few weeks back... The star of david was used to demark the jews... Who else would it be for? Are you gonna mark the Catholics (many of which died at hitler's behest)? No, You mark jews with the star... Bit of a stupid question... I hope you see that...

I'm not questioning whether or not it happened... I'm questioning the accuracy of the numbers involved, and the racial makeup of those killed...

I content that

1: Many fewer people died in those camps than originally reported
2: Many people other than jews died there as well
3: More people died as a result of typhous than did Zyklon-B

I am still waiting for someone to 'straighten' me out about these 3 topics... I'm sure someone here knows a bit of something I don't and can shed some new evidence on it, but all I get is people calling me stupid, and saying they knew someone who knew someone!

fullauto, I truelly believ that the numbers are accurate. I just doubt the reasons that so many were killed at the hands of the nazis.

1) Towards the end of the war, specifically November 1944 thru April 1945 the german infrastructure was under serious attack by the allies, saturation bombings of Heidleburg, Hamburg, Berlin, Dresden, etc, etc, was designed to halt the infrastucture of the German war machine (ie. their ability to supply troops and feed troops, etc.) It stands to reason that prisoners would be adversely effected as well. All of those pictures of walking skeletons after the war were a direct result of the infrastucture breakdown of nazi germany.

2) A live slave building roads is much more valuable to the war effort than a dead slave. I can see them killing off the sick and elderly, but wholesale slaughter of healthy individuals (as well as children) is preposterous... There is simply no need in it.

3) I believe many human experiments took place as well. The "Zyklon-B gas" for example ,was probably a more of a chemical weapons test, than a result of the "final solution".

4) The evidence that is used against the nazis consists of approximately 25 nazi memos, and a handful of eye witnesses.

I don't think the nazis really gave a **** about the plight of the jews , but I doubt they went out of their way to exercize the final solution either.

Another interesting piece of trivia is that the nazis developed the use of screws and pins for orthopedic trauma care. They probaby used human test subjects (jews)... but even still, no one wants to admit that the nazis did anything good at all.

I think the nazis were evil. I think islam is evil... If you look deep enough you can find some good in both...

 

[fullauto]

fullauto, I truelly believ that the numbers are accurate. I just doubt the reasons that so many were killed at the hands of the nazis.

1) Towards the end of the war, specifically November 1944 thru April 1945 the german infrastructure was under serious attack by the allies, saturation bombings of Heidleburg, Hamburg, Berlin, Dresden, etc, etc, was designed to halt the infrastucture of the German war machine (ie. their ability to supply troops and feed troops, etc.) It stands to reason that prisoners would be adversely effected as well. All of those pictures of walking skeletons after the war were a direct result of the infrastucture breakdown of nazi germany.

good point... if even half of the deaths attributed to 'the final solution' were actually adverse effects of allied bombing, coupled with a national food shortage, than the numbers of ALL deaths (not just jewish) would be much lower... But as you say later, I think it would be foolish to kill off your slave labor out of blind hatred, and all evidence leads me to believe that while indifferent to the plight of the jews and all those in prison, they hardly went out of thier way to destroy them... If that were the case, why try at all to deport them first? Especially if, as claimed, nazi goals consisted of world domination... If they planned to take the world, they would have to deal with the jews eventually anyway! So Why try and deport them first?

And if they wanted to kill ALL the jews eventually, why bother to set up such amenaties as a postal system for them and allow them to send and recieve mail?

Liebster Bruder und Schw

 

[snafu]

Sure we can say that Nazi’s gave us technology as well.
So what?
So they saved us some time from figuring the **** out ourselves.

They did separate the slave’s into workable ones, sick and old.
Hitler declared the total elimination of the Jews. Period!
If I were a Jew at the time of his rants, I would have declared war as the photo of the kid holding the newspaper.(probably would not have made it to long though). Did you see any Jewish brigades? Troops?

It stands to reason that when the war structure failed, the less fortunate would die of disease and hunger first. Are you implying that it was our fault that so many died? We broke down their War structure? We were carpet bombing the **** out of Germany. I'm sure got a Jew or two in there too.
They did exterminate more than just Jews. We can all agree on this.

But in the method they were doing it was systematic extermination. Call it what you want but Auschwitz was fitted with the means for this. They had three camps. Some… **** it I’ll google it up!

http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/start/index.php

They had the work camps but the way it was designed was to exterminate mass people!! One way in. Smoke stack out!

**** it! I call that a Holocaust!

 

[fullauto]

Sure we can say that Nazi

 

[snafu]

I can’t read blueprints to well but your telling me these are fake?
http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/historia_KL/krematorium_komora_4_ok.html

I don't think so.

We also have other photos of the stacks in action. I don't know if I can find them on google but I saw it on the History channel. The jest of the episode was how much of what was happing did we know and not do anything about it. Like blow it up! We knew they were bringing them in on the train and they wern't leaving. The camp could only hold so many people.

I get where your coming from and can agree to an extent. It was a Holocaust of epic proportions on everybody. Not just the Jews.
The Jews run with it because as we all know they are the persecuted ones.
So what is a holocaust?

Holocaust:
Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire.

Holocaust The genocide of European Jews and others by the Nazis during World War II: “Israel emerged from the Holocaust and is defined in relation to that catastrophe” (Emanuel Litvinoff).
A massive slaughter: “an important document in the so-far sketchy annals of the Cambodian holocaust” (Rod Nordland).
A sacrificial offering that is consumed entirely by flames.



I believe that had Hitler won there would have been total genocide toward the Jews.
I guess I bought into it.

 

[quarky]

The holocaust DID happen... however, it was not a JEWISH thing alone...

Agreed, the Nazis exterminated most of the European gypsies and a number of other monitories, however because there numbers were never as great as the Jews, there deaths made up the bulk of the killings.

I have heard all the arguments from people saying the holocaust never happened and if it did, it wasn

 

[pjbuk]

It's worth looking at this page....

http://www.honestmediatoday.com/ever_diminishing_holocaust.htm

Especially the images of Red Cross documents detailing the death tolls after the war, these are well known on the net but always seem to be dismissed, even though they have been repeatedley verified by Red Cross officials. They tell a very different story on the numbers and were the official documents from after the war. Scroll down the page to see them.

 

[snafu]

It's worth looking at this page....

http://www.honestmediatoday.com/ever_diminishing_holocaust.htm

Especially the images of Red Cross documents detailing the death tolls after the war, these are well known on the net but always seem to be dismissed, even though they have been repeatedley verified by Red Cross officials. They tell a very different story on the numbers and were the official documents from after the war. Scroll down the page to see them.

Jesus Christ! we've already gone through this. How in the **** can you prove to me that every life was accoutned for? They burned records. They tried to destroy as much as posible before they left. You think they didn't kill them as soon as they got there? We can go around and around and around. THERE IS NO MYTH!!!!!!! IT HAPPENED!!!! How many? who the **** knows? Will we ever know the correct number? **** NO!

How many sick people do you think they kept on hand? They can't feed their own armies as fullauto ponted out.

Answer me this. Where’s the records of them treating the sick? Were are the records of the sick (not malnourished) that survived?

I’m not gonna google it!

 

[snafu]

It's worth looking at this page....

http://www.honestmediatoday.com/ever_diminishing_holocaust.htm

Especially the images of Red Cross documents detailing the death tolls after the war, these are well known on the net but always seem to be dismissed, even though they have been repeatedley verified by Red Cross officials. They tell a very different story on the numbers and were the official documents from after the war. Scroll down the page to see them.

Jesus Christ! we've already gone through this. How in the **** can you prove to me that every life was accoutned for? They burned records. They tried to destroy as much as posible before they left. You think they didn't kill them as soon as they got there? We can go around and around and around. THERE IS NO MYTH!!!!!!! IT HAPPENED!!!! How many? who the **** knows? Will we ever know the correct number? **** NO!

How many sick people do you think they kept on hand? They can't feed their own armies and like fullauto said they wern't gonna feed them before their own army.

 

[jokersarewild]

Yeah, like Snafu, I have been to the Holocaust Museum in DC, and I saw the shoes, I saw the pictures of the "medical research" done by German scientists on the Jews. FullAuto is right in that Jews weren't the only ones persecuted. But Hitler made sure that quite a few were killed.

http://www.adl.org/holocaust/response.asp

 

[tiredofwhiners]

Yeah, like Snafu, I have been to the Holocaust Museum in DC, and I saw the shoes, I saw the pictures of the "medical research" done by German scientists on the Jews. FullAuto is right in that Jews weren't the only ones persecuted. But Hitler made sure that quite a few were killed.

http://www.adl.org/holocaust/response.asp

I also was there it really gave me a Erie feeling going threw. But going through left no doubt in my mind it was real. I could be wrong but wasn't there still a gas chamber or oven still standing somewhere?

 

[snafu]

Yeah, like Snafu, I have been to the Holocaust Museum in DC, and I saw the shoes, I saw the pictures of the "medical research" done by German scientists on the Jews. FullAuto is right in that Jews weren't the only ones persecuted. But Hitler made sure that quite a few were killed.

http://www.adl.org/holocaust/response.asp

That's were I went. In DC.
Do you remember the smell?
Wow I couldn't get rid of it for weeks!

 

[jokersarewild]

I think there is still one in Dachau.

http://jrcycle7.tripod.com/images/Dachau_14_-_Gas_Chamber.JPG

Yeah, I think if everyone replying to this thread had actually been to that museum, like FA, This would barely even be an argument.

And you cannot walk be this and still tell me this whole thing is faked...

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2001/200103164e.jpg

And you can barely see on these arms what they are showing you, but it is their numbers, tatooed into them for recognition, I think. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2001/200103164a.jpg

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/destinations/images/b/us_dc_ea_fdgdc16_b.jpg
^^^^three story tower...I will give you 3 guesses on what the pictures are...

 

[jokersarewild]

That's were I went. In DC.
Do you remember the smell?
Wow I couldn't get rid of it for weeks!

I do. I was more focused on the ****ed up pictures in the little center thing in one of the rooms talking about the medical experiments, such as seeing how long a Jew could last in cold water so that the scientists would know how well they would need to make the uniforms for the pilots so that they wouldn't die.