NO EVIDENCE OF GODS

Pastor Frank <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
> news:70qeu21934vf7sp50ejdu2g6eduqn4ljtb@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:44:09 +0800, in alt.atheism
> > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
> > <45e7076a$0$16281$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
> >>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
> >>news:2ho9u25n0bfth0pee9taf3gkua6vn3tev2@4ax.com...
> >>> On 26 Feb 2007 22:20:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
> >>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
> >>>>
> >>>>In any event, if you think I am mocking Jesus, why don't you take your
> >>>>complaint to him when he returns to judge the earth?
> >>>
> >>> Because there is no evidence that Jesus will ever return and there is a
> >>> great deal of evidence that people are harmed by the teachings of those
> >>> who claim to be the followers of Jesus.
> >>>
> >> There you go again making broad accusations without presenting a shred
> >>of evidence.
> >
> > Are you trying to deny that there have been people who claim to be
> > followers of Jesus but have caused serious harm in the world with their
> > evil?
> >
> Are you simple minded, that you should believe Satan's minions who claim
> to be followers of Christ, yet do the opposite from what Christ commanded,
> as well as justify doing so. That's why Jesus said: By their actions ye
> shall know them. Yet you believe their words instead of their actions?

If someone claims to be a Christian, constantly prays to Jesus, and
employs the words of Christ to justify their actions, then he is a
Christian, period.

The problem, however, is that you apparently can't reconcile the fact
that those actions often are heinous acts of violence. But an evil
Christian is still a Christian, because he still inhabits the fantasy
world you all share...
 
Pastor Frank wrote:
> "stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
> news:eumdnS9prupYvHrYnZ2dnUVZ_qrinZ2d@ptd.net...
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1172556961.386584.45770@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 26, 8:25�pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't. I just think it's amusing how childish you are.
>>>>
>>> I have never thought you were amusing. And you are not childish. You
>>> are evil.
>>> Robert B. Winn
>>> ---------
>>> These insults are just refuting ploys by Satan's minions to make
>>> people STOP talking about Jesus. Will we let them? Hell NO!!!! We will
>>> shout His most holy and perfect name from the roof tops if need be, and
>>> no atheists are going to stop us!!!!!
>> Just like suicide bombers in Iraq?
>> ~Stumper
>>
> Notice the Golden Rule of Christ below. Are you telling us you would
> never become a terrorist were your country bombed and invaded. Would you be
> suitably shocked and awed and become immediately compliant and docile?
> If not that, what would you do?
>
> Pastor Frank
>
> The most important, yet most ignored commandments of Christ, which would
> make war, if not ALL of man's inhumanity to man extinct, nay totally
> unthinkable:
> THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
> Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
> heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
> strength: this is the first commandment.
> 31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
> as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
> Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
> commandments."
> THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST, or Ethic of Reciprocity
> Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
> should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
>

First thing first.
Would you stone adulterers?

--
~Stumper
 
Pastor Frank wrote:
> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
> news:70qeu21934vf7sp50ejdu2g6eduqn4ljtb@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:44:09 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> <45e7076a$0$16281$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>> news:2ho9u25n0bfth0pee9taf3gkua6vn3tev2@4ax.com...
>>>> On 26 Feb 2007 22:20:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
>>>>> In any event, if you think I am mocking Jesus, why don't you take your
>>>>> complaint to him when he returns to judge the earth?
>>>> Because there is no evidence that Jesus will ever return and there is a
>>>> great deal of evidence that people are harmed by the teachings of those
>>>> who claim to be the followers of Jesus.
>>>>
>>> There you go again making broad accusations without presenting a shred
>>> of evidence.
>> Are you trying to deny that there have been people who claim to be
>> followers of Jesus but have caused serious harm in the world with their
>> evil?
>>
> Are you simple minded, that you should believe Satan's minions who claim
> to be followers of Christ, yet do the opposite from what Christ commanded,
> as well as justify doing so. That's why Jesus said: By their actions ye
> shall know them. Yet you believe their words instead of their actions?
>

You are right.

Would you be kind enough to let us know
whether you would stone all adulterers or not?

--
~Stumper
 
Pastor Frank wrote:
> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
> news:croeu25amqqusj8b7cv0qcff7tul8hho4e@4ax.com...
>> Apparently you are a bot of very little memory. If you had any memory at
>> all, you would know that you had already tried this lie on me and that I
>> pointed out that I own a number of Bibles and have read it through. You
>> would also remember that the Bible does not qualify as evidence in
>> support of the claim that gods exist. It is no more evidence than any of
>> the other religious and religiously-inspired books. Many people, some
>> just for kicks, have written religious texts. None are supported by any
>> evidence.
>>
> There you go again specifying that a God to exists, he must be evidenced
> to your specifications and approval. There is no such requirement. It's a
> free country and everyone can regard anything or anyone as their god, no
> matter whether abstract or concrete.
>

Isn't it possible that
God might not exist to him
for all practical intents and purposes?

--
~Stumper
 
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:50:19 +0800, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:

>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>news:70qeu21934vf7sp50ejdu2g6eduqn4ljtb@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:44:09 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> <45e7076a$0$16281$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>>news:2ho9u25n0bfth0pee9taf3gkua6vn3tev2@4ax.com...
>>>> On 26 Feb 2007 22:20:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>In any event, if you think I am mocking Jesus, why don't you take your
>>>>>complaint to him when he returns to judge the earth?
>>>>
>>>> Because there is no evidence that Jesus will ever return and there is a
>>>> great deal of evidence that people are harmed by the teachings of those
>>>> who claim to be the followers of Jesus.
>>>>
>>> There you go again making broad accusations without presenting a shred
>>>of evidence.
>>
>> Are you trying to deny that there have been people who claim to be
>> followers of Jesus but have caused serious harm in the world with their
>> evil?
>>
> Are you simple minded, that you should believe Satan's minions who claim
>to be followers of Christ, yet do the opposite from what Christ commanded,
>as well as justify doing so. That's why Jesus said: By their actions ye
>shall know them. Yet you believe their words instead of their actions?

Don't you think that a true follower of Christ should respect truth
then, Pastor Frank? Should a follower of Christ engage in constant
self-deception and try to deceive others? Why are all of you christers
such deliberately illogical liars? Why is there no christer who really
does respect Truth?
___________________

Gospel Bretts
a.a. Atheist #2262
Fundy Xian Atheist
 
"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
> rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:


No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
is proof? I would contend there is no way to prove such a
claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.








>
> > > > > > Well, you are an apostate Christian. ?That means you are more
> > > > > > dishonest than a person who was raised atheist.
> > > > > > Robert B. Winn
> > >
> > > > > On the contrary, my dear Winnie, the ex-Christian has turned away
from
> > > > > dishonesty and embraced truth. ?He is to be more admired and
esteemed
> > > > > for having grappled himself up out of the stifling quicksands of
> > > > > religion and walked in the verdant and enlightened fields of
atheism.
> > >
> > > > Well, if you atheists are so happy, why can't you stay away from
> > > > trying to discredit religion?
> > >
> > > Because our world is under assault by religious groups who invoke
their
> > > superstitions to control what others think and do. Did you miss 9/11?
> > > Have you not listened to Pat Robertson and other power mad
evangelicals?
> > > Have you not watched the creationists trying to take America back to
the
> > > Dark Ages? Have you not heard the suicide bombers screaming "God is
> > > great"?
> > >
> > > It is increasingly clear that religion is a plague on civilization, so
> > > why would we "stay away" from such an important issue?
> >
> > I see. Well, we Christians are supposed to return good for evil, so
> > here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten your day.
>
> It appears that you confuse talk about evil with the evil itself, and
> that you do not recognize yourself in that evil.
>
>
> > Isaiah3:13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the
> > people.
>
> And so you retreat to your warm fairy tales.
>
> Interesting choice of verse, by the way. After all, Christianity (as
> most religions) employs judgement has a primary tool of control. As I've
> said before, Christians all seem to LOVE to judge people; I guess you're
> no exception...
>
>
 
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:05:25 -0500, "H. Wm. Esque"
<HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote:
- Refer: <08uGh.2340$Dw2.1537@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
>
>"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
>> rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
>is proof? I would contend there is no way to prove such a
>claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
>responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.

Most sane thinking adults would take it as rhetoric.
I.e.: A "Put up or shut up" challenge.

Those who demand "evidence" of the non-existence of impossible
infantile fantasies are most likely not in the categories of sane,
thinking, or adult.

--
 
On Mar 3, 11:06�am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
> rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Well, you are an apostate Christian. ?That means you are more
> > > > > > dishonest than a person who was raised atheist.
> > > > > > Robert B. Winn
>
> > > > > On the contrary, my dear Winnie, the ex-Christian has turned away from
> > > > > dishonesty and embraced truth. ?He is to be more admired and esteemed
> > > > > for having grappled himself up out of the stifling quicksands of
> > > > > religion and walked in the verdant and enlightened fields of atheism.
>
> > > > Well, if you atheists are so happy, why can't you stay away from
> > > > trying to discredit religion?
>
> > > Because our world is under assault by religious groups who invoke their
> > > superstitions to control what others think and do. Did you miss 9/11?
> > > Have you not listened to Pat Robertson and other power mad evangelicals?
> > > Have you not watched the creationists trying to take America back to the
> > > Dark Ages? Have you not heard the suicide bombers screaming "God is
> > > great"?
>
> > > It is increasingly clear that religion is a plague on civilization, so
> > > why would we "stay away" from such an important issue?
>
> > I see.
 
On Mar 4, 12:05�am, "H. Wm. Esque" <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "Scott Richter" <scottrichter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
>
> > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> is
 
On Mar 4, 1:56�am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:05:25 -0500, "H. Wm. Esque"<HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
 
rbwinn wrote:
> On Mar 4, 12:05?am, "H. Wm. Esque" <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > "Scott Richter" <scottrichter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
> >
> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> > is ?proof? ?I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> > claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> > responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.
> >
> > > > > > > > Well, you are an apostate Christian. ?That means you are more
> > > > > > > > dishonest than a person who was raised atheist.
> > > > > > > > Robert B. Winn
> >
> > > > > > > On the contrary, my dear Winnie, the ex-Christian has turned away
> > from
> > > > > > > dishonesty and embraced truth. ?He is to be more admired and
> > esteemed
> > > > > > > for having grappled himself up out of the stifling quicksands of
> > > > > > > religion and walked in the verdant and enlightened fields of
> > atheism.
> >
> > > > > > Well, if you atheists are so happy, why can't you stay away from
> > > > > > trying to discredit religion?
> >
> > > > > Because our world is under assault by religious groups who invoke
> > their
> > > > > superstitions to control what others think and do. Did you miss 9/11?
> > > > > Have you not listened to Pat Robertson and other power mad
> > evangelicals?
> > > > > Have you not watched the creationists trying to take America back to
> > the
> > > > > Dark Ages? Have you not heard the suicide bombers screaming "God is
> > > > > great"?
> >
> > > > > It is increasingly clear that religion is a plague on civilization, so
> > > > > why would we "stay away" from such an important issue?
> >
> > > > I see. ?Well, we Christians are supposed to return good for evil, so
> > > > here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten your day.
> >
> > > It appears that you confuse talk about evil with the evil itself, and
> > > that you do not recognize yourself in that evil.
> >
> > > > Isaiah3:13 ?The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the
> > > > people.
> >
> > > And so you retreat to your warm fairy tales.
> >
> > > Interesting choice of verse, by the way. After all, Christianity (as
> > > most religions) employs judgement has a primary tool of control. As I've
> > > said before, Christians all seem to LOVE to judge people; I guess you're
> > > no exception...- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Atheists reject the Bible

No. We reject the unsupported supernatural claims made in the bible.

> and say it proves nothing

Because begging the question is a logical fallacy.

> even though some will actually admit that the Bible exists.

Please name one atheist who claims the bible doesn't exist.

> One atheist told me he had
> thirty Bibles, but what good is having a book if you do not read it?

Did this person state they hadn't read it? Although it's a fine
question to put to theists, now that you bring it up; I'm guessing
better than 80% haven't read it cover to cover, judging by what
nutcases like you say. An even better one would be "what sense does
it make to worship a character in a book you apparently haven't read?"

> I try to help atheists get over their ignorance by quoting verses from
> the book of Isaiah.

Considering that it seems more atheists are biblically well-read than
theists, what "ignorance" are you trying to help them get over? Is
Isaiah the only book you've read? Are the verses you quote relevant
to the conversation?

> Isaiah 3:19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

Have you read this one?

Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye
depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
 
H. Wm. Esque wrote:
>
> No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> is proof? I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.

No, it's more a statement about the absolute dearth of actual,
legitimate, objective, verifiable evidence for any deities ever in the
universe. If you have some, please feel free to present it; many of
us atheists have politely asked for such evidence literally for years
if not entire lifetimes, and so far have been perpetually sorely
disappointed. Be aware, though, that the standards of evidence for
such supernatural claims is pretty high; statements like "I don't
understand something, therefore god must have done it" or "I get a
warm fuzzy feeling when I pray" won't cut it.
 
rbwinn wrote:
> On Mar 3, 11:06?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote:
> > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Well, you are an apostate Christian. ?That means you are more
> > > > > > > dishonest than a person who was raised atheist.
> > > > > > > Robert B. Winn
> >
> > > > > > On the contrary, my dear Winnie, the ex-Christian has turned away from
> > > > > > dishonesty and embraced truth. ?He is to be more admired and esteemed
> > > > > > for having grappled himself up out of the stifling quicksands of
> > > > > > religion and walked in the verdant and enlightened fields of atheism.
> >
> > > > > Well, if you atheists are so happy, why can't you stay away from
> > > > > trying to discredit religion?
> >
> > > > Because our world is under assault by religious groups who invoke their
> > > > superstitions to control what others think and do. Did you miss 9/11?
> > > > Have you not listened to Pat Robertson and other power mad evangelicals?
> > > > Have you not watched the creationists trying to take America back to the
> > > > Dark Ages? Have you not heard the suicide bombers screaming "God is
> > > > great"?
> >
> > > > It is increasingly clear that religion is a plague on civilization, so
> > > > why would we "stay away" from such an important issue?
> >
> > > I see. ?Well, we Christians are supposed to return good for evil, so
> > > here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten your day.
> >
> > It appears that you confuse talk about evil with the evil itself, and
> > that you do not recognize yourself in that evil.
> >
> > > Isaiah3:13 ?The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the
> > > people.
> >
> > And so you retreat to your warm fairy tales.
> >
> > Interesting choice of verse, by the way. After all, Christianity (as
> > most religions) employs judgement has a primary tool of control. As I've
> > said before, Christians all seem to LOVE to judge people; I guess you're
> > no exception...- Hide quoted text -
> >
> Actually, I was just going through the book of Isaiah verse by verse.
> The next one is Isaiah 3:14.
> The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people,
> and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard: the
> spoil of the poor is in your houses.
> I discovered some time ago that you can have a conversation with
> atheists just by answering each atheist in turn with a verse from
> Isaiah. This results in a much better conversation than relying on
> your own knowledge in trying to answer each accusation. Isaiah was a
> much better judge than anyone living today.

So rather than think about something and answer someone, you punt?
 
rbwinn wrote:
> On Mar 4, 1:56?am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:05:25 -0500, "H. Wm. Esque"<HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > ? - Refer: <08uGh.2340$Dw2.1...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > >"Scott Richter" <scottrichter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
> > >> rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > >No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> > >is ?proof? ?I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> > >claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> > >responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.
> >
> > Most sane thinking adults would take it as rhetoric.
> > I.e.: A "Put up or shut up" challenge.
> >
> > Those who demand "evidence" of the non-existence of impossible
> > infantile fantasies are most likely not in the categories of sane,
> > thinking, or adult.
> >
> Well, I think atheists should get over their fantasy that the Bible is
> going to disappear.

Could you please cite the atheist that made that claim?

> Isaiah 3:20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the
> headbands, and the tablets, and the earings,

That's nice; rather than babbling yourself, you quote babbling.
 
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:eek:62lu2lpmr5f8ecfstlertdao57rvkb32c@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:05:25 -0500, "H. Wm. Esque"
> <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> - Refer: <08uGh.2340$Dw2.1537@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
> >
> >"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
> >> rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> >is proof? I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> >claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> >responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.
>
> Most sane thinking adults would take it as rhetoric.
> I.e.: A "Put up or shut up" challenge.
>
> Those who demand "evidence" of the non-existence of impossible
> infantile fantasies are most likely not in the categories of sane,
> thinking, or adult.
>
This is a very ambiguous statement. Are you implying that those
who demand "....." are sane? Or is is that you are defining God?
> --
 
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1173013529.010538.60630@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 4, 12:05?am, "H. Wm. Esque" <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "Scott Richter" <scottrichter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
>
> > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> is proof? I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > > Well, you are an apostate Christian. ?That means you are more
> > > > > > > dishonest than a person who was raised atheist.
> > > > > > > Robert B. Winn
>
> > > > > > On the contrary, my dear Winnie, the ex-Christian has turned
away
> from
> > > > > > dishonesty and embraced truth. ?He is to be more admired and
> esteemed
> > > > > > for having grappled himself up out of the stifling quicksands of
> > > > > > religion and walked in the verdant and enlightened fields of
> atheism.
>
> > > > > Well, if you atheists are so happy, why can't you stay away from
> > > > > trying to discredit religion?
>
> > > > Because our world is under assault by religious groups who invoke
> their
> > > > superstitions to control what others think and do. Did you miss
9/11?
> > > > Have you not listened to Pat Robertson and other power mad
> evangelicals?
> > > > Have you not watched the creationists trying to take America back to
> the
> > > > Dark Ages? Have you not heard the suicide bombers screaming "God is
> > > > great"?
>
> > > > It is increasingly clear that religion is a plague on civilization,
so
> > > > why would we "stay away" from such an important issue?
>
> > > I see. Well, we Christians are supposed to return good for evil, so
> > > here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten your day.
>
> > It appears that you confuse talk about evil with the evil itself, and
> > that you do not recognize yourself in that evil.
>
> > > Isaiah3:13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the
> > > people.
>
> > And so you retreat to your warm fairy tales.
>
> > Interesting choice of verse, by the way. After all, Christianity (as
> > most religions) employs judgement has a primary tool of control. As I've
> > said before, Christians all seem to LOVE to judge people; I guess you're
> > no exception...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Atheists reject the Bible and say it proves nothing even though some
will actually admit that the Bible exists.
>
Really: certainly, the Bible is real this is the only certainity in a very
uncertain world. What sane person would deny the existance of
certainity?
>
One atheist told me he had
thirty Bibles, but what good is having a book if you do not read it?
I try to help atheists get over their ignorance by quoting verses from
the book of Isaiah.
>
Good point!

Bill

Isaiah 3:19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
Robert B. Winn
 
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1173018520.978855.246000@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
> rbwinn wrote:
> > On Mar 4, 12:05?am, "H. Wm. Esque" <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > "Scott Richter" <scottrichter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > news:1hue729.pr88setfk8njN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...
> > >
> > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> > > is ?proof? ?I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> > > claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> > > responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Well, you are an apostate Christian. ?That means you are
more
> > > > > > > > > dishonest than a person who was raised atheist.
> > > > > > > > > Robert B. Winn
> > >
> > > > > > > > On the contrary, my dear Winnie, the ex-Christian has turned
away
> > > from
> > > > > > > > dishonesty and embraced truth. ?He is to be more admired and
> > > esteemed
> > > > > > > > for having grappled himself up out of the stifling
quicksands of
> > > > > > > > religion and walked in the verdant and enlightened fields of
> > > atheism.
> > >
> > > > > > > Well, if you atheists are so happy, why can't you stay away
from
> > > > > > > trying to discredit religion?
> > >
> > > > > > Because our world is under assault by religious groups who
invoke
> > > their
> > > > > > superstitions to control what others think and do. Did you miss
9/11?
> > > > > > Have you not listened to Pat Robertson and other power mad
> > > evangelicals?
> > > > > > Have you not watched the creationists trying to take America
back to
> > > the
> > > > > > Dark Ages? Have you not heard the suicide bombers screaming "God
is
> > > > > > great"?
> > >
> > > > > > It is increasingly clear that religion is a plague on
civilization, so
> > > > > > why would we "stay away" from such an important issue?
> > >
> > > > > I see. ?Well, we Christians are supposed to return good for evil,
so
> > > > > here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten your day.
> > >
> > > > It appears that you confuse talk about evil with the evil itself,
and
> > > > that you do not recognize yourself in that evil.
> > >
> > > > > Isaiah3:13 ?The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge
the
> > > > > people.
> > >
> > > > And so you retreat to your warm fairy tales.
> > >
> > > > Interesting choice of verse, by the way. After all, Christianity (as
> > > > most religions) employs judgement has a primary tool of control. As
I've
> > > > said before, Christians all seem to LOVE to judge people; I guess
you're
> > > > no exception...- Hide quoted text -
> > >
> > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > Atheists reject the Bible
>
> No. We reject the unsupported supernatural claims made in the bible.
>
> > and say it proves nothing
>
> Because begging the question is a logical fallacy.
>
> > even though some will actually admit that the Bible exists.
>
> Please name one atheist who claims the bible doesn't exist.
>
I would say he misspoke.
>
> > One atheist told me he had
> > thirty Bibles, but what good is having a book if you do not read it?
>
> Did this person state they hadn't read it? Although it's a fine
> question to put to theists, now that you bring it up; I'm guessing
> better than 80% haven't read it cover to cover, judging by what
> nutcases like you say. An even better one would be "what sense does
> it make to worship a character in a book you apparently haven't read?"
>
> > I try to help atheists get over their ignorance by quoting verses from
> > the book of Isaiah.
>
> Considering that it seems more atheists are biblically well-read than
> theists,
>
I would question this statement. Sincere, devout Christians usually are
well read. However, there are some who are noninal Christians who
ususlly attend Church, others who are Christian for personal gain
who flaunt their faith in order to gain trust, expecially where they
hope for personal gain. I personally know an elderly couple who
were deprived of their life's savings by a Bible quoting "care giver"
who worked hard to gain their trust. Then she disappeared. She
had no interest in the couple except for what she could steal.
>
<snip>
>
> Matthew 10:14
> And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye
> depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
>
Christians who do not heed this verse are in violation of the very
faith they profess. There is no Biblical authorization to "shove ones
religion down the throat of another person". An atheist who wants
a defense against over-bearing proselytizers should be able to
point to this verse as a defense.
 
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1173019052.691420.283990@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> H. Wm. Esque wrote:
> >
> > No Evidence of God?? Is this a claim? If so, whose responsibility
> > is proof? I would contend there is no way to prove such a
> > claim, therefore, the claimant would likely attempt to shift the
> > responsibility to those whom he considers his opponents.
>
> No, it's more a statement about the absolute dearth of actual,
> legitimate, objective, verifiable evidence for any deities ever in the
> universe.
>
There is no proof. Absolute certainty is not available where the
Deity is concerned.
People of faith accept the Existence of God as a matter of faith,
and not because of hard empirical evidence. If this is what is
demanded by you, then you are demanding this of God because
he has not provided it.
>
If you have some, please feel free to present it; many of
> us atheists have politely asked for such evidence literally for years
> if not entire lifetimes, and so far have been perpetually sorely
> disappointed.
>
You want absolute certainty, a guarantee, but you have no
certainty in anything: your job, your mate, your future or
a long happy life. But you demand more from God. Why?
I find this surprising.
>
Be aware, though, that the standards of evidence for
> such supernatural claims is pretty high; statements like "I don't
> understand something, therefore god must have done it" or "I get a
> warm fuzzy feeling when I pray" won't cut it.
>
I can understand you want a idyllic existence where there is
only perfect knowledge, proof of everything even direct
empirical the existence of God, but it does not exist
so you will not find it.

Billy
 
rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

> I discovered some time ago that you can have a conversation with
> atheists just by answering each atheist in turn with a verse from
> Isaiah. This results in a much better conversation than relying on
> your own knowledge in trying to answer each accusation.

Presumably, few of those atheists continue the conversation for long,
since by your own admission you aren't interested in discussion, but
pontification.


> Isaiah was a much better judge than anyone living today.

If you want to judge people, you should at least have the character to
do so directly, rather than hiding behind Biblical figures.

But you miss the key point of your own sentence--Isaiah is NOT living
today. You and I are. And I have no interest in talking to the dead
because they are notoriously poor conversationalists.

Goodbye.
 

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