Plastic surgery

[emkay64]

I often wonder if a person deciding to undergo plastic surgery, had everyone around them saying..."please don't do it...I don't want you to change....I love everything about you"...if that came from spouses, friends and family...I wonder if they'd bother?

Instead most say "If it's what you want"...or "If it makes YOU happy".....those comments to me just sort of say ......yah...you could probably use some improving or basically saying it's great to surgically improve...I just wonder.

Hmmmm.......

 

[mercury]

That's a good question, emkay.

I have one friend that has already had an extensive amount of botox, restalin, chemical peels, dermabrasion and all that good stuff. I think she's addicted to the stuff and she's only 35 (36 maybe?). She spends a couple thousand dollars every 3-6 months and is fully committed to continuing the practice. I don't think she needs it. I don't think she ever did, but I've never told her that. I don't think it would change her mind, though.

 

[Ahhlee]

I often wonder if a person deciding to undergo plastic surgery, had everyone around them saying..."please don't do it...I don't want you to change....I love everything about you"...if that came from spouses, friends and family...I wonder if they'd bother?
Instead most say "If it's what you want"...or "If it makes YOU happy".....those comments to me just sort of say ......yah...you could probably use some improving or basically saying it's great to surgically improve...I just wonder.

Hmmmm.......

Boy, I think you're on to something.

I guess my stance is I decided it's what I want to do and I have the means to do it. My family and friends keep asking, "Are you SURE you need it?" because they know if they tell me "You don't need that!" I'll be even more prone to do it because I'm a rebellious little ****.

If I had a spouse telling me that he loved me no matter what and insisting I didn't need it, would it change my mind?

I can honestly say....I don't know.

 

[timesjoke]

I don't disagree that a better self image is desired by women and also for men. I believe that plastic surgery has horribly skewed what is considered normal or acceptable in today's society. Why don't we see more clinics opening up to build the mental image for women instead of the **** external? A woman's personal worth, and success can all be attributed to a skinny ideal, large *******, huge lips, expressionless faces, padded ***** etc etc....I just can't advocate that. The huge rise in teen surgeries proves that. My reason for not partaking is because i choose to be a role model for my kids. Plain and simple.

Yellow teeth almost always imply a lack of personal hygiene and staining due to specific foods. I'm not going debate something so petty because it's ridiculous in comparison. A wonder bra, lipstick, and moisturizer, hair dye etc...are not permanent alterations on the body.

Well I think it is a tad simplistic to lump all those who get plastic surgery into one group, even when I go against abortions I always leave room for the exceptions in every norm because I know it is impossible to lump everyone together.

I think your a great mom and your working hard to set a great example, as do I in my every day life by rarely drinking and never getting drunk and setting a very high moral standard just to name a couple things. One of the things we discussed openly even to my young daughter was how Tami was a mature woman who was already where her body could take her and no amount of hard work on her part would give her a more balanced body image. We spent a lot of time on research and selecting the right doctor so from day one we at least showed that it was an important decision and not to be done rashly.

I often wonder if a person deciding to undergo plastic surgery, had everyone around them saying..."please don't do it...I don't want you to change....I love everything about you"...if that came from spouses, friends and family...I wonder if they'd bother?

Instead most say "If it's what you want"...or "If it makes YOU happy".....those comments to me just sort of say ......yah...you could probably use some improving or basically saying it's great to surgically improve...I just wonder.

Hmmmm.......

I would have to ask when is it a woman puts on her makeup?

Does she get up in the morning and completely "fix" herself up even if she is staying home or does she instead not concern herself with how her family and visiting friends see her but take the time to apply her makeup when she is going to work or going shopping where all she will see is strangers or other people who are not close to her?

More often than not I believe most of a woman's work to external improvements is not for the people she is closest to in life.

Let's look to Ali, she is well thought of, she has lots of friends who like/love her for who she is and has spoken of dating and such so she has companionship as she is, there is no "need" for the help she can get from cosmetic surgery other then her self image.......and from everything I have seen in my life, this is a valid point and I believe perfectly natural.

I will agree that nurture plays a big part of this, but it really is a core issue to "feel" beautiful.

 

[emkay64]

I know. I considered discussing it with the kids, but it still leaves some seeds in their mind. Emily has already had issues. For 2 weeks straight when she was 5 years old she cried every time she looked in the mirror, because she felt she looked "different" than everyone else.

Why did Tami feel her body was "unbalanced"? It's the perception that really needs to change...not cup size. Whether or not she's old enough...it still tells your daughter that Tami didn't feel her ******* were adequate...and in all likelihood if your daughter were to look the same later in life, she would see that someone she cares about thought that wasn't adequate and maybe...maybe she needed some work done. I'm not saying she will feel like that for sure...I'm saying the potential for damage is there. I personally don't need any more potential here.

 

[Ahhlee]

One thing I can say is that I'm only seeking to restore what I originally had. I'm definitely not looking to alter myself severely.

And as much as I look to Dolly Parton as my personal ideal </sarcasm> the thought of two giant beach ball looking protusions sticking out from my chest makes me want to puke. I'll stick with the soft, natural look, thanks....lol.

 

[emkay64]

Actually.....

Ali's surgery is not solely for self image purposes. Hers is medical, based on past history. Being overweight is a health concern.

 

[timesjoke]

I know. I considered discussing it with the kids, but it still leaves some seeds in their mind. Emily has already had issues. For 2 weeks straight when she was 5 years old she cried every time she looked in the mirror, because she felt she looked "different" than everyone else.

I think kids understand better than we give them credit for. The important part is they know responsibility and see good examples of responsibility from the people who are important to their life.

Why did Tami feel her body was "unbalanced"? It's the perception that really needs to change...not cup size. Whether or not she's old enough...it still tells your daughter that Tami didn't feel her ******* were adequate...and in all likelihood if your daughter were to look the same later in life, she would see that someone she cares about thought that wasn't adequate and maybe...maybe she needed some work done. I'm not saying she will feel like that for sure...I'm saying the potential for damage is there. I personally don't need any more potential here.

Well we can't be frozen in life worried about every "possible" harm in our life. I am more than sure I will make mistakes in life so if I am to make mistakes, then I will try to be sure that at the very least I show the example of taking full responsibility for what I do.

As far as why Tami feeling unbalanced it would be a question of proportion and I am sure a little vanity to look as good as possible but as I said before, everything I have seen from history tells me that it is normal for women to want to look as good as possible in her eyes. My daughter might think tattos or multi piercings is attractive (I hope not) but the one thing I know beyond all other things is she will be an individual and acting from her true beliefs, not from what my choice of mate thinks looks good to her.

Actually.....
Ali's surgery is not solely for self image purposes. Hers is medical, based on past history. Being overweight is a health concern.

The original surgery for the belt certainly had a health concern to be sure, but I would argue that the follow up appearance surgery is for mental health, she will benefit from an improved self image.

 

[Ahhlee]

Something that amazes me is the fascination that our society has with women's ******* and how people feel so free to comment on them...often crudely.

Like Merc's example - teasing her for being too skinny and flat chested. WTF???? Her breast size is no one's business but her own and it shouldn't define her as a woman.

I have a love/hate relationship with my *******. I love their softness and the pleasure they can bring to myself and a partner, but other than that they can be a real pain. Guys, strangers even, feel free to comment on them and even grab at them all the time, and men have had more conversations with my **** than they will ever have with me.

I wonder if our media didn't glorify large ******* so much, would most women even bother having theirs enhanced?

 

[Ahhlee]

I shared the story over at the Jungle how one of the videographers at my brother's wedding got drunk and filmed and zoomed in on my cleavage for several minutes during the reception. Everyone laughed when they saw it, but I was embarrassed.

If I'm sitting at the bar with friends, there are a few local guys who will wad up their beer bottle labels and try to get "3 points" by tossing them at my cleavage.

Once I wore a pretty but more form fitting dress to a reception and as soon as I walked in, one guy I knew yelled across the room, "Holy **** Alicia, you have huge ****!!!!" and you should have seen how fukking red my face turned. Everyone else thought it was fun, but I didn't so much.

It really sucks when you are made to feel ashamed of your body like that.

 

[timesjoke]

Something that amazes me is the fascination that our society has with women's ******* and how people feel so free to comment on them...often crudely.
Like Merc's example - teasing her for being too skinny and flat chested. WTF???? Her breast size is no one's business but her own and it shouldn't define her as a woman.

I have a love/hate relationship with my *******. I love their softness and the pleasure they can bring to myself and a partner, but other than that they can be a real pain. Guys, strangers even, feel free to comment on them and even grab at them all the time, and men have had more conversations with my **** than they will ever have with me.

I wonder if our media didn't glorify large ******* so much, would most women even bother having theirs enhanced?

Spoken like a woman who has big *******, lol.

Did you know human ******* are one of the things that confuse scientists who try to study evolution?

Human females are the only females who keep enlarged *******.

Why? Assuming evolution is real why would human females "need" enlarged *******?

Well the closest thing I ever saw that looked close enough to a good scientific explanation was from a different angle than one might expect. To simulate the appearance of the behind.

Most of the animal kingdom is a "rear mount" reproductive act, the view the male has is of the buttocks and the ******* are not an important factor for their mating. Humans are designed for a face to face mounting and the theory was that the rounded appearance of the ******* are designed to excite and entice men by similating the rounded view they would normally see from behind.

Maybe I read too much, lol....

.

.

 

[snafu]

I shared the story over at the Jungle how one of the videographers at my brother's wedding got drunk and filmed and zoomed in on my cleavage for several minutes during the reception. Everyone laughed when they saw it, but I was embarrassed.
If I'm sitting at the bar with friends, there are a few local guys who will wad up their beer bottle labels and try to get "3 points" by tossing them at my cleavage.

Once I wore a pretty but more form fitting dress to a reception and as soon as I walked in, one guy I knew yelled across the room, "Holy **** Alicia, you have huge ****!!!!" and you should have seen how fukking red my face turned. Everyone else thought it was fun, but I didn't so much.

It really sucks when you are made to feel ashamed of your body like that.

Nowbody was laughing at your *****. They were laughing at how much the camera man was a perv.

And the 3 pointer, you were letting them.

Deep down you love the attention they bring you.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Why? Assuming evolution is real why would human females "need" enlarged *******?

Well... Mr. Science Guy... enlarged ******* in **** sapiens erectus occur for many natural and well known reasons.

Do **** sapiens not walk upright or do we stoop and drag our knuckles on the ground? Naturally, when posture is improved... there will be more room for growth and development.

What about estrogen? Men can develop ******* like a woman (gynecomastia) and if that happened to me, I'd never leave the house.

What about the pill? Does it not regulate the mestrual cycle? Ask your wife about premenstrual water retention and tenderness.

Well the closest thing I ever saw that looked close enough to a good scientific explanation was from a different angle than one might expect. To simulate the appearance of the behind.
Most of the animal kingdom is a "rear mount" reproductive act, the view the male has is of the buttocks and the ******* are not an important factor for their mating. Humans are designed for a face to face mounting and the theory was that the rounded appearance of the ******* are designed to excite and entice men by similating the rounded view they would normally see from behind.

All of this is garden variety zoology through the skeptical thoughts of Desmond Morris, a zoologist and an ethologist, and it can best be described in his book "The Naked Ape". Morris went on to say that copulation through missionary style ***, as opposed to rear-mounting, helped to develop feelings for each partner in means other than procreation. Could this be love?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3y5IeC7eEU]YouTube - Orangutans Having *** at the National Zoo[/ame]

These Orangutans do not have a problem copulating in the missionary position! And the female does not have enlarged *******.. must be two gay orangutans getting it on.

You said, a bit earlier and I omitted it on purpose, that scientists are confused by enlarged ******* in human females. And you cite the works of a known evolutionary theorists. How does that help your argument?

Maybe I read too much, lol.....

.

Maybe you don't read enough.

 

[timesjoke]

Well... Mr. Science Guy... enlarged ******* in **** sapiens erectus occur for many natural and well known reasons.

Your making the same mistake most of the evolutionists make, your looking backward taking away while the way it must happen is to move foward "adding".

There is nothing in the evolution theory that can explain human females keeping enlarged *******. Even if you subscribe tot he notion traitsd can be added in opposition of DNA scientific fact, you have to figure out why evolution would add them, and so far nobody has offered me a reasonable explanation of why it would "add" enlarged ******* when no other female in the world has them.....there must be a reason.

Look at what Ali said, her ***** get in the way a lot and this is a 'modern' society. Could they get in the way "in the wild"?

You said, a bit earlier and I omitted it on purpose, that scientists are confused by enlarged ******* in human females. And you cite the works of a known evolutionary theorists. How does that help your argument?

Maybe you don't read enough.

I guess it proves that I am constantly looking for information and not blinding myself from ideas just because I do not personally follow them. My first goal is to make dicisions based on all the information, not just look for things that support what I "want" to be real as so many other people do.

By the way, I didn't say other creatures could not front mount, just talking abotu the most common methods in the animal world, many animals can mount in different ways, then you have some creatures like fish who don't mount at all (glad I am not a fish, lol).

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Your making the same mistake most of the evolutionists make, your looking backward taking away while the way it must happen is to move foward "adding".
There is nothing in the evolution theory that can explain human females keeping enlarged *******. Even if you subscribe tot he notion traitsd can be added in opposition of DNA scientific fact, you have to figure out why evolution would add them, and so far nobody has offered me a reasonable explanation of why it would "add" enlarged ******* when no other female in the world has them.....there must be a reason.

Look at what Ali said, her ***** get in the way a lot and this is a 'modern' society. Could they get in the way "in the wild"?

So by your example, you just throw out random thoughts of Desmond Morris without taking sexual selection, based on primal females attracting a male, into consideration?

You are not arguing evolution and creationism anymore, you are arguing a theory of evolution over another theory of evolution.

I guess it proves that I am constantly looking for information and not blinding myself from ideas just because I do not personally follow them. My first goal is to make dicisions based on all the information, not just look for things that support what I "want" to be real as so many other people do.

By the way, I didn't say other creatures could not front mount, just talking abotu the most common methods in the animal world, many animals can mount in different ways, then you have some creatures like fish who don't mount at all (glad I am not a fish, lol).

Do you think I woke up one morning and declared myself a believer in evolution of the species?

The bonobo female has a brightly colored ****** used in sexual signaling, it says "mount me, I am ready!".

View attachment 2501

View attachment 2502

 

[Ahhlee]

Nowbody was laughing at your *****. They were laughing at how much the camera man was a perv.
And the 3 pointer, you were letting them.

Deep down you love the attention they bring you.

9 times out of 10 I can laugh at myself. I really can. But that 1 time that I can't, my feelings get hurt. I guess that situation was just one of those times.

I didn't "let" them do anything. They started doing it while I was sitting at a nearby table. I tried to laugh it off at first but they kept up until I moved and then they razzed me even more. It wasn't appreciated nor fun.

I don't mind that kind of attention from a man I am interested in, but not random jerks just trying to be....jerks. That's why I rarely go out to the bars anymore. It's just not worth the hassle.

The bonobo female has a brightly colored ****** used in sexual signaling, it says "mount me, I am ready!".

I was going to mention the bonobos, too! They are unique because the female is willing to engage in *** even when she's not in estrus. They're a pervy little bunch of monkeys!

 

[timesjoke]

So by your example, you just throw out random thoughts of Desmond Morris without taking sexual selection, based on primal females attracting a male, into consideration?

You are not arguing evolution and creationism anymore, you are arguing a theory of evolution over another theory of evolution.

I spend a lot of time comparing one theory and another all in my attempts to look for the truth. In many cases I have found combinations of ideas and viewpoints bring me the most information instead of getting myself bogged down in any one person's thoughts of what "they" think the truth is, we are all humans, nobody is any better then anyone else if you take the time to educate yourself.

Attracting and keeping a male is very important, but in all other life forms enlarged ******* are not one of the factors, not even in apes who many evolutionists believe we came from so why?

Why? Looking foward instead of backward, why would nature believe this one form of life needed enlarged ******* when no other creature on the face of the planet needed them? Legs to walk on land, okay, air breathing lungs, okay that seems important......enlarged *******? Not needed in apes, so there is no reasonable need for them in humans.

My point was to show how even science gets befuddled by *******, but at the end of the day we men still love them

Do you think I woke up one morning and declared myself a believer in evolution of the species?

No, I believe most atheists are anti-religion so that drives them to the anti-religion science of evolution as their faith. Birds of a feather and all that. It fills your need to feel justified in rejecting Faith.

Evolution is 2% hard data in the form of fossil records and 98% Interpretation, the person in control of the mind determins the Interpretation and if they want excuses to reject the notion of ***, then their mind will provide the missing pieces to make that happen.

Now I will admit that this can also be true for someone wanting to blindly embrace the notion of *** but there is nothing to show that certain elements of both are possible. This is where someone like me comes in with an open mind ready to accept both sides as having valid points and too see the limitations

The bonobo female has a brightly colored ****** used in sexual signaling, it says "mount me, I am ready!".

So why not give human females the same thing? It obviously works. Why would humans have something never seen in other life forms? My point will always be looking foward, not backward.

Did you know that the black vulture mates for life and even the other vultures sometimes attack a fellow vulture who is 'fooling around' with the wrong vulture?

 

[mercury]

Did you know that the black vulture mates for life and even the other vultures sometimes attack a fellow vulture who is 'fooling around' with the wrong vulture?

Too bad more men weren't as virtuous as the lowly vulture

 

[timesjoke]

Too bad more men weren't as virtuous as the lowly vulture

Just men Merc?

 

[emkay64]

Yep...just the evil dirty men TJ. The bastards with penises, the destroyers of life and what have you.

I have a brightly colored ******....it's rainbow, and shoots out edible glitter. Weeeeeeeee!!!!