timesjoke

These things last days sometimes, the only way to show the meat of the meetings is to use segments. I am sure you can find an old archive of the entire hearings if you really want to. Republicans had been screaming about the lack of oversight with Fannie and freddie, they were even exempt from most of the rules other banking companies had to follow, that is why they caused this mess. Fannie and Freddie had a limit as to how much in loans they could hold at opne time so they would close a loan to someone who could not possibly pay that loan to term and then sell it to a private bank to free up money that can close another loan and sell that one too, over, and over, and over until they caused this mess. Your not keeping up with the point, slow down and stop looking for excuses to protect your progressives. The OFHEO never had direct power over Fannie and Freddie, look at about 4 minutes into the video, the Democrat Davis admitted that they did not have any regulatory authority to place an ultamatum on them, basically saying the regulator over stepped himself even though he was just responding to a massive problem he discovered. Several other places Republicans point out that Freddie and Fannie were exempt from many new laws that were created to regulate banks, they were completely free to do anything they wanted to do and when Republicans attempted to do something about it, the Democrats blocked it. They were manipulated because the OFHEO had no real power over them, think of it like the weapons inspectors in Iraq, they were told to look around but they were kicked out over and over and blocked from seeing certain things. If the Democrats had not blocked these attempts to make Fannie and Freddie accountable to someone, we would not have seen the massive crash that came later. Your nieve. No, they are not that stupid, they are driven by an ideology that makes the waste of Government money irrelivent. They knew there were problems and they did not care. This hearing clearly proved there were problems but the Democrats circled the wagons, started playing the race card, and blocked any new restrictions to what Fannie and Freddie were doing. So I just proved to you that the Republicans did try to warn people, they did try to create new regulations to protect Americans, and only the Democrats blocked those protections and refused to protect Americans. The facts are there for you to see, the question is will you pull your head fromt he sand and admit it is there, or will you still be blinded by the lies from the progressives that they are blameless for the crashed economy? Look behind all of these issues and you will find Conservatives fighting for solutions while Progressives are blocking those same solutions. But all I can do is show you the door, it is you who has to walk through it.

Why is it a joke? Because they use hard science and real experts in every field to prove your wacko conspiracy theory as impossible? You can't stand to see hard evidence so you look away, blind yourself to that truth and hide behind the lie that they are in on it too? You cling to impossible theories and when your asked to explain why so many innocent and non-power hungry people would join in on the conspiracy you simply dodge the question and continue spouting complete uneducated lunacy, that is the joke, a sick joke to be true, but still a joke. For you conspricay theory to be true, thousands of regular people, just like you and me would have to be in on the coverup, would you hold that blood on your hands Builder? If your answer is no, then why do you assume other regular people like you but who live in America would do it? I understand your hate of Bush and Cheeny, but your allowing that hate to blind you from the truth, to blind you from the reality those two men could not do this by themselves.

Don't feel bad, anyone who does not agree with him is called names, it is part of his charm. That said your question was pretty stupid, it is called english, read the information provided and try to understand what is actually there in front of you. I know your from a insignificant Country but even you should know that all agencies end up with the President as the boss. Nothing is done unless it is approved by the administration, now that does not mean every single issue is brought to the President, but like any chain of command, the lower leval may make a decision, but the boss is still the boss and ultimately responsible for that decision. If he put a dumbazz in that office to make that stupid move, then that is also his fault. But, I can't believe something this big was not at least run past Obama for his nod. So we ended drilling in the Gulf because it was too dangerious, but we loan Mexico to drill in the Gulf of Mexico.....because why? Does Obama think the Mexicans can drill in the Gulf safer than anyone else? You need to pay better attention, your missing some very easy points being made. So are your going to apologise to the board for missing such easy points and creating this crybaby mess? Obama is the boss of all areas of the Government, he is tied to every decision either directly or indirectly by his personal placement of those who make those decisions and answer to him. As I said before, it is not very likely something this big was not run up the flagpole for Obama to approve. The story had a lot to do with this and even a few smaller ripples than the obvious ones, the bigger one being that our Government is once again eliminating jobs for Americans but helping another Country boost their jobs and at the same time being as we buy a lot of their oil, we will also be paying the salaries of those workers while we are paying unemployment benefits for the workers Obama forced out of a job...... And the entire reason for Obama blocking the drilling in the Gulf was that it is unsafe......but he is now helping to fund drilling in the Gulf by someone else? If it is okay for them, why not let us do it and give Americans a chance to work?

A lot of attention has been put on the main face for the "ground zero mosque" and his refusal to condemn terrorist groups like Hamas but what about some of the other members of this group? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/imam_pal_is_nut_gPPtzFWEtyaUlE3u4P4ckI A founding member of an organization run by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the driving force behind the planned mosque near Ground Zero, claims that the 9/11 attacks were an "inside job" and that Muslims have been made scapegoats, The Post has learned. Faiz Khan -- who has preached at least twice at the former Burlington Coat Factory building, the site of the proposed mosque -- was for years Rauf's partner in the American Society for the Advancement of Muslims, which is dedicated to promoting a better understanding of Islam. Khan also serves on the advisory board of Muslims for 9/11 Truth and is a founder of the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth, known as MUJCA. On MUJCA's Web site, Khan wrote that "the inescapable fact [is] that 9/11 was an inside job." "The prime factor for the success of the criminal mission known as 9/11 did not come from the quarter known as 'militant Islam,' although the phenomenon known as 'militant Islamic networks' may have played a partial role, or even a less than partial role -- perhaps the role of patsy and scapegoat," he wrote in documents uncovered by the Investigative Project on Terrorism. Khan was listed as one of three directors of the American Society for the Advancement of Muslims in its 1997 incorporation papers, when it went by the name of the American Sufi Muslim Association. ASMA and Rauf's Cordoba Initiative are spearheading the drive to create a $100 million Islamic cultural center and mosque near Ground Zero. In an e-mail exchange with The Post, Khan said he ended his affiliation with the ASMA in "2002 and 2003," although that claim is contradicted by a record of him speaking at a 2006 ASMA conference in Copenhagen, where his bio listed him as a board member. When The Post asked Khan who he thought was responsible for 9/11, he initially declined comment, but later said in an e-mail: "I am certain of a few things . . . The towers and WTC 7 could not have collapsed without controlled demolition place from the 'inside.' " Ray Locker, managing director of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, said: "For someone who claims he wants the mosque project near Ground Zero to help build bridges and heal the wounds from 9/11, it's odd that one of Feisal Rauf's fellow bridge builders is someone who thinks the attacks that killed more than 3,000 people were an 'inside job' by the US government." Khan told a group of 9/11 deniers at a 2006 Chicago summit called "Revealing the Truth/Reclaiming Our Future" that "the most logical explanation" for 9/11 is that the hijackers were working for corporate America and that the heroin trade creates "billions of dollars" that are laundered by "Citicorp and Procter & Gamble." Rauf's spokesman didn't return calls for comment. Meanwhile, Rauf said yesterday on ABC's "This Week" that he wasn't "making a threat" when he said moving the mosque would incite Islamic extremists to attack the United States -- although he insisted the warning held true. "I've never made a threat, never expressed a threat, never," Rauf said. "I would never threaten violence ever, because I am a man of peace, dedicated to peace." So tell me something, how can these guys claim they are against terrorists when everyone involved in this 'project' can't even admit that some Muslims are terrorists, and that Muslim terrorists caused 9/11? You want to build a bridge? Start by admitting to certain basic truths. And while your at it, if this building being built at this spot was really no big deal, why would all of the Muslim world attack us if it is moved to a new location? Why is that specific spot so important to Muslims as a whole to build this Mosque? None of these other Muslims live there so why do they care? Maybe the idea of a Mosque on ground zero is more important to them than they care to admit to? And while we are at it, what is this 'tolerance' stuff they want us to show? How much tolerance do Muslim Countries show non-Muslims? How many of you know a non-Muslim is not allowed to enter Madinah and Makkah? How many of you know that under the Obama Administration, the military has burned Bibles? http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html They claim the burning was to protect soldiers but could they have not just been locked up? Why burn them? And it is common knowledge that Bibles and other Christian items like crosses are burned all the time in Saudi so why is it that "only" Americans should show some tolerance? One idiot in America wants to burn a Quran and every Muslim in the world wants to hold all of America responsible? At least all of American leaders came out directly against this act as wrong, your will never see that kind of unity in the Muslim world against terrorist attacks. I say it is time for the Muslims to be tolerant.

Bender asks an important question we should all be asking our President, and our current Congress....where are the jobs? Right after taking office, the Obama administration promised to cap our unimployment at 8% if we gave them unrestricted power to do anything they wanted to do, to pass legislation without even reading it, giving Obama our complete and blind trust, and while many complained that was not a great idea, Obama got exactly what he asked for, every specific freedom he pushed for was approved................ So where are the jobs? On Febuary 25th this year Princess Pelosi said this: "So this bill is not only about the health security of America. It's about jobs. In its life it will create four million jobs -- 400,000 jobs almost immediately; jobs, again, in the health care industry, but in the entrepreneurial world as well." But where are the jobs? The average rate of healcare job creation both before and after the bill was created has stayed almost the same, so where is the 400,000 instant jobs? On Aprin 23rd of this year Prince Biden said this: "Well, I'm here to tell you some time in the next couple of months we're going to be creating between 250,000 jobs a month and 500,000 jobs a month." Well more than a couple months has gone by, so where are the jobs? Obama and company keep pinting their fingers at Bush and claiming they are not to blame for this mess but I saw a very happy Obama run for, and gain a political office he wanted. All he and his circles could talk about was how stupid Bush and company were and how smart they were so tell me, if they were so smart, and everyone else so stupid, why did they screw up so bad? Obama and the rest of the royal family got everything they wanted and still they complain about Bush while holding themselves blameless. I agree it was a mess, but Obama said he could handle it, was he right? Can he handle it? Based on all his promises that are only matched with corresponding failures it seems very clear that he and his cohorts cannot handle the responsibility and job they asked for. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ So where are the jobs? Right here waiting to open up as soon as the Democrats stop pretending like the private sector is the enemy. Only the private sector has the jobs, and as long as Obama is directly attacking the private sector, there will not be any real job creation. IMHO

So where are the jobs? Is that Fannie and Freddy's fault too? . . Where is the profit in creating a job under an administration and congress that is jumping at any excuse to demonize the private sector? There will not be any big flow of jobs until the Progressives stop treating the job creaters as the enemy. No, you keep missing the point, as usual, I don't want the Government to give anyone a dime of taxpayer money, I want the Government to let job creators "keep more of the money they earned". Easy, stop trying to punish people just because they are creating jobs and being successful. It is called positive reinforcement, the Government can reward those who create jobs and guess what, you reward them with their own money and it does not cost the Government a dime. And those new 25 workers are off the Government tit and at the same time they are earning money that the Government is now able to collect taxes from. Getting people off welfare and working in the private sector is the only help we can possibly have, the only thing the Government can give us is more poverty, as it is right now, and how all of California has found out. If you think having a private sector job is being a slave, I guess your entitled to your opinion, but everything you offer as an alternative is even stricter enslavement to the Government whewre elitists like Obama and Al Gore mandate down to the masses what you can do, how you can do it, and when it is to be done. Letting the Governemtn enslave us is definately not going to give us prosperity, because they don't really believe in prosperity. And that is the rub, progressives believe the American dream is gone, that people can't find success on their own and need the Federal Government to hand out success and life to the masses. But people like me is proof against their propaganda. I am not really that different than anyone else, I work hard though and that hard work has helped me rebound twice, totally rebuild from complete loss two times and I can gurantee that it was not possible without the freedom to succeed based on my own work ethic. I do better than most Americans not because I am smarter, or because I am a movie star, or because the Government handed me more than someone else.....I am more successful because I work harder and have set goals that I am willing to bust my azz to attain. The progressives want to "cap" failure, they believe all Americans need the Government to step in and provide every American with all their basic needs to survive, and doing this they also cap success. Each businessman in America will have such a massive burdon on them that only the select few will survive, only those who are permitted to survive (because they have the correct political friends) will survive, and the welfare rates of today will be only a small beginning to the unemployed numbers we will see in the future if we let them go through with their plans to remake America into a daycare center.

What's the story? It's the official export credit agency, which is an independent agency? Clarification? Haha. How dare you show IWS that his story had absolutely no point or relevance! Can you two really be that slow?

Or hey, if he even had some sources. Where's the racism? Where did Repubs try to pass reform? Your lack of even a basic education on the issues is truly shocking, well, considering your educated in California I guess it should be expected: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

So all your willing to do is shoot off your mouth about things you know nothing about.......right? Thought so. I wonder why it is progressives like you say we should not hold Muslim communities accountable for the radicals they refuse to stand up to, but at the same time all of them believe one idiot buring a Quran means all of america has burned a Quran....... Double standard? As I keep saying but people like Joker ignore, I don't think all muslims are terrorists or are infiltrating any way they can, but I do know without any doubt that not "all" Muslims stand up against the radicals. All these radicals already want to kill us because we are infidels, nothing we do will incease or decrease their hate of the 'West'. We cannot appease the terrorists Joker, they are not motivated by what your motivated with, you think "be nice" and they will be nice back, and your wrong.

Deregulated by progressives, at least get that part right Bender, be big enough to admit that when the conservatives tried to head off the mess, it was the Democrats who haulted the attempts and caused the massive free fall decline that came later. But you can't admit that can you Bender? Your just so self-deluded you can't see any solution to a problem unless it involves your progressives holding the reigns. I don't really understand the meaning of your question Bender. How many 'poor' people employ other people? Zero. So how makes the jobs? The so called 'rich' do, and who do you get them to make new jobs? The progressives must think calling them names, putting them down, or abusing them is the way to go but every time the progressives start their anti-business rhetoric, the jobs starts decline. Under Bush job creation was still strong until the progressives took over the purse strings and started talking trash against business again, and guess what, jobs declined. Do you want jobs created Bender? Then give the 'rich' a reason to make jobs, let them make a profit and they will create jobs that employ people but if you take away all the incentives to make a business, they why would they want to make one? You can't keep treating business like the goose that lays the golden egg and taxing them into oblivian. Look at California Bender.

Well Builder, I posted a link to a popular mechanics page where they went line by line on the most popular conspiracy theory beliefs and they were all refuted by hard scientists anf facts, not unsupported conjecture. You don't have one fact, just assumptions driven by your own redical mindset as well as those who share your hate. You feed off each other and completely ignore common sense and hard facts. You need to step back and do some more thinking instead of just believeing everything you read on wacko websites. How do you respond to my point that so many normal people would have to be in on the coverup? Where did the passengers go Builder? Why did the first responders to the Pentagon all report they saw dead bodies and plane parts in the wreckage? [attach=full]2962[/attach] Is that part of the plane that hit the Pentagon Builder? If not, where did it come from and who put it there? You think Bush or Cheeny put it there? Can't you see that your beliefe of conspiracy must involve more than just them to work? People who don't have great power to gain must be in on this and why would they keep that blood on their hands. I asked you if you would keep that lie hidden Builder, but you don't want to answer that question do you? You don't want to because you would have to admit that you would not, and that means you have to admit the other normal every day people most likely would not lie for Cheeny or Bush either.

How would you know? There hasn't been one in over a hundred years. Really? Yet this ANCIENT form of government will work today? You can't show any evidence that it works, can't show where people were gettings jobs, can't show where the economy was climbing with that method, but I should just take it to heart that the free market is the way to go... EVEN THOUGH... every time anything is deregulated, it gets messed up... INCLUDING Fannie and Freddie which you like to use as an example. . . Being as you completely ignore every example shown you, it is no surprise that you can't see how anything but socialist ideas are valid. IWS just showed you a great example of how the housing market crash was delivered to us through the fannie/freddie mess caused by the Democrats, and you don't even care. The Republicans tried to offer reform of Fannie and Freddie but guess who blocked those attempt? In 2004 the Democrats even played the race card and said the only reason Republicans wanted to offer stricter regulations was because they hated black people......so the attempts were blocked and we see the result. No, I don't believe regulation at that point would have stopped all of the mess, but it would have severely reduced it, and that reduction was blocked by progressives.

So you know I just proved my point in my last example and instead of admitting you now understand my point was a good one, you completely ignore this example and desperately try to go back to my first example to salvage some dignity? Okay, let's go back to that one, it is a good example too, I just used the 'gas' example because I figured you could better understand that the attack and damage caused was more than just the two buildings hit with planes. So IWS, we did not drop one bomb right? We dropped that first bomb and still Japan refused to surrender, only after we dropped the second bomb did Japan surrender and the actual damage was not the reason, it was the "fear of more bombs" that forced the surrender. Terror. Wez long ago claimed America was also guilty of terrorist actions and even then I admitted he was right but the reaons and motivations were completely different. It is always intent that defines an action, if I kill someone for calling me a bad name I go to jail for murder, if I kill the same man to save the life of another person I am hailed as a hero......same dead body, but the difference is intent. Wez is incapable of seeing intent, neither is Joker, all they see is the negative when it comes to their own Country. So the real intent for dropping the two nuclear bombs was not just to cause damage, but to instill fear and terror into the enemy and force them to react to that fear by surrendering. There is also the years of radiation and such that was also part of the nuclear attacks and that did also hurt more than just the blast zones. So back to 9/11. Was the intent of the 9/11 attacks only to destroy a couple buildings? I feel pretty sure it was not. The intent was to spread fear or "terror" (hence the label terrorist) so did their attack work? The liberals certainly act pretty scared to me.......... But all that is still irrelivent because part of a plane hit this building in question so it is obviously a direct part of the attack and as such part of ground zero, my other point about it actually directly hurting all of America was just a expanded point of how more than just New Yorkers were harmed and why more than just New Yorkers are voicing their opinions on this.

Good video, and more common sense combined with real witness and evidence instead of making stuff up just because it fits your political agenda and fears of the moment.

Write this date down Hey, I said I was sorry too, don't forget that.......lol.

A new proposed ICE guideline would require law enforcement to release any illegal who is stopped for a traffic violation but is not wanted for any other reason: Basically they have an illegal in hand, but are ordered to let them go. So again, the current Administration is subtly wanting to make changes, many of them small, others are really big like this one, to actually help and encourage illegal immigration in America instead of enforcing the laws of America and securing the borders and ejecting those who are here illegally. ICE claims they simply do not have the resources to perform this job, they are intentionally underfunded and have their hands tied from actually accomplishing their job.

yes, I agree. A buckets of apples would be just as good a president as Obama... That's about all you've ever got to add to the debate, eddo. Three fifths of phukk-all. Thanks for coming buddy. You mean like how the only thing you contribute is to try and divert attention away from Obama by attacking Bush? Your a blind progressive excuse machine, everything is always Bush's fault and the man has been out of office for almost two years now. It is time for Obama to take responsibility for his own decisions and failures. If the "Stimulus" had been a success, would you now be giving Bush the credit for that success? No, so the failures of the thing is Obama's, not Bush's. Everything Obama has done has failed or been in direct opposition to the will of the people.

Then why did you add in that last part saying you believed he lied emkay? I agree with the first part of your comment where he does not seem to bright, but then you turned to attacking the idea of guns in America and then ended with your assumption he was telling lies so why was that emkay, you tell me? TJ...I would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than get into another debate or discussion with you. I would rather see you masturbate with a cheese grater than debate with him as well. Pix please I'll put you on the list. Score! don't get too excited... I've been on "the list" for 4 years now... That is a very long list, lol

Okay, start out with this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842 And again, common sense can completely eradicate all doubt from any person if you just take the time to go step by step walking down the process of what would have had to happen for Bush, Cheeny, or anyone else to make this happen and how unlikely it is for the secrete to be kept. I am not sure what version of lunacy you have decided to swallow but let's just take one and walk it down the path and see how many people have to be involved for it to be possible. Le't say someone in power wanted to shoot a missle into one of the buildings and blow it up, do you think the missle can be deployed without hundreds and maybe even thousands of people being involved in that action? You don't think Bush or Cheeny is out there flying a jet and fired the shot do you? Even if they did there would still be records and people on the ground who would know the truth. There is the inventory of the weapons that much be altered, there is the ground crew who must fuel, arm, and prepare the plane as well as service the plane after the flight. There is the military and civilian air traffic control who know of the flight and they have to alrter the recordings to erace the resord of the flight. And even if the President did fly the plane, no plane will lift off the ground without many people in the chain of command being involved and issuing orders. Look, I understand the mindset of someone like you who "wants" to believe the worse about some people, especially those with power, and how they trample on other lives to gain power. But. How can you balance that with the need of normal every day people who would have to be involved in the conspiracy staying silent? Someone like Cheeny or Bush "might" gain power, but what does the flight crew who knows the truth get? Let's say you were on that flight crew, just a normal every day person doing your job of getting planes ready for launch and you know the plane departed with missles but came back without missles and there was an attack on the world trade buildings, do you think you might remember that? Would you keep your mouth shut? Some might, I give you that much, but not everyone, there is no way each of these people who had to be involved would all stay silent. Someone would feel the pressure of decency and truth building up inside them and let it out. Some would write things down, even keep documents hidden "just in case" it exploded up in the face. Lifetime generals and such would want assurances that if lower ranked people did blab, they would be preserved. The circle of conspiracy would have to be so large it would be impossible to keep it silent. Any hard evidence proving this was an inside job would be worth millions and once the info was out, the person talking could not really be harmed without further tarnishing America, so there is no reason not to tell. Bill Clinton had only a couple people to control and he was in the most secure place a President can be and still he could not keep the truth about his affairs from being released so how can you honestly believe either Bush or Cheeny was so perfect they could pull off something like this, with so many people involved, and not one squeek of it gets out? And let me ask you another question, how is it we have video of passengers getting on the planes, radar tracking of the planes all showing a timeline for the plane hitting the building........but if the plane did not hit the building, where did the planes and people go? Did the military make them land and use false the tracking info? If so do you believe that the military killed all of them on the base they landed at and disposed of the bodies? If you were one of the soldiers at that base would you kill the innocent passengers from the plane to help preserve the conspiracy? You see, if you look close enough you keep finding ways that massive amounts of people must be involved in the conspiracy for it to work and why would all these people stay silent? They don't have the money and power to gain that someone like Bush or Cheeny might get so what is their motivation to kill thousands of Americans? Why would they keep Bush or Cheeney's blood on their hands Builder? Would you hold that blood on your hands and stay silent Builder? If not, then why would you believe anyone else would? If this was just about Cheeny, I might even consider the concept, but this is not about Cheeny or Bush, this is about the thousands of regular every day Americans that would have to be in on the conspiracy without anything to gain that tells me that logically, all the claims of 9/11 being an inside job is simply impossible.

That could possibly be the dumbest sh!t I've ever heard anyone try to argue. And that was the most stupid thing you ever said. Your last post said you did see this as ground zero based on your picture, now why would you say that? Because you see some trash on the ground? Did the planes target and crash directly into this building in question or not? Did the attackers intend to attack this building or was it's being struck by parts just an accident? What is the point of a terrorist attack IWS? Do you think the attack was only intended to destroy the two buildings? The intent was to instill fear, not just destroy a couple buildings. As an example let me offer you something you might better understand. You as a cop are ordered to disperse a crowd of angry demonstrators, so you deploy a pepper gas grenade into the crowd. Is the canister or the gas the agent your wanting to use as a tool to get the desired effect of dispersing the crowd? The Muslims involved did not want to knock down two buildings, only an idiot would think that was their true objective. The Islamic terrorists wanted to strike at the heart of America, to cause us fear, to bring their fight to the land of the enemy. Their intent to spread fear was like the gas and the buildings are the canister. That "gas" has spread well and now most of our leadership are scared to death. Before 9/11 we did not have muslim prayer in public schools, but we do today, and not one word against it from the ACLU. Today, we can't even admit the attacks at Fort Hood were related to his faith even thought that guy was screaming to Allah the entire time he was killing people. Normally liberals are very vocal and hostile to things like unfair treatments of women and such but when comes to Muslims, they are silent. It is inconceivable to them to put up any resistence to things so called "moderate" Muslims do even if it is obviously designed as a provacative act like building a mosque at ground zero. So my point that you claim to not understand is that the terrorists were not just attacking New York, their "gas" of fear was intended for all of America. In fact, you do remember that there was more than one target....right? Do you belieeve those targets were selected for their individual importance alone or do you believe their overall effect on "all of America" was also a part of their attack? Joker, I am going to just wave you off on this topic, you only want to see the bad done by America but you completely ignore the greater good such as the millions we have saved by helping Afganistan fight off the Russians. If you tryly believe that America shoudl not get greater credit for the greater good then there is nothing I can say to sway you. At this point your arguing like a child, very similar to the way Wez just keeps pouring out hate and attacks while refusing to admit America is the sole reason freedom exists in the world. Sure there were other players, but America is and has always been the biggest player. You don't believe Americans should feel a direct connection to the attacks of 9/11 and I respect your opinion, but you refuse to respect the opinions of those of us who do feel it is reasonable to feel that connection. You keep telling lies about me in saying I believe "ALL" Muslims are directly terrorists or even bad, I have never believed or said this even one time. You point is if I claim some are playing behind the sceenes, then I must also be saying all are and that is not the case. ------"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ~ Edmund Burke ------ This is my point, I believe more than 80% of all Muslims are not evil, are not terrorists, and are not directly helping the radical elements of their faith. But, at the same time their not directly standing up against those radical elements and "doing nothing" is helping evil. Now, about the wager, I bet you $100.00 that the "currently planned" location of this mosque/center, whatever title you want to call it will either not be built, or they will take out the mosque portion of the building. You willing to take me up on that wager? No word games, no childish attempts to squirm away from the intent of this wager, man up and either agree to the bet or not.

I am not a big fan of Wal-Mart being as most of their products come from China when many years ago they used to advertise how they try to buy American but it was their strict refusal to allow the Unions to take them down that made them as strong as they are today.

oops, I thought eddo was calling the TARP a stimulus, I was wrong, sorry eddo.......

I know she can defend herself. I just choose to stick up for her because I consider her a friend and have a considerable amount of irk towards you. Also, you need to quash all of your delusions that people argue with you because they have a sexual frustration towards you. Eww, yuck!:yucky: I guess all the men that dislike you here also have a sexual attraction to your irresistibility, in your mind, right? Of course that is exactly what a woman with a sexual frustration with me would say so your hardly helping your point. Any woman who did not have that problem would simply laugh it off as silly, but you went that extra mile to go over the top and excessively deny it and that tells us your over compensating Chi. Look, I don't think your a bad person, I can dissagree with people without going off the deep end emotionally but you ladies don't seem to be capable of that with me and that seriously points to unfulfilled sexual tension.

So why was her first thought of her most intimate parts Chi? Seems she sees a direct connection to her sexuality with me, and you seem desperate to try and prop up her mistakes, she is capable of defending herself Chi, you don;t need to play momie for her, but then again you always seem obsessed with me too so I guess both of you are just expressing your sexual frustration, lol.

Seriously eddo, you sometimes surprise me with your need to depart from logic to stand against something I say. Obiously the wager was as the building was planned to be built, only a completely stupid person would think otherwise. This area being part of ground zero is based on how you perceive it. Just like Joker saying only people in new york should feel anything about the attack of 9/11. Is that true eddo? Did you feel anything after that attack? And if people all over America were negatively effected by that attack then they too were part of the 9/11 attack. Is the damage caused by a nuclear bomb limited to the imediate blast radious of the explosion or can we logically say that the attack includes all the following harms that go with that deployment of the nuclear weapon? Considering the devistation caused with the two nuclear bombs we released on Japan, was just the specific detonation locations the only parts of Japan that was damaged? Your both wrong eddo, ground zero can technically be considered all of America, because damage from that attack covered our entire Nation. But being more specific, the attack caused damage to that building too so it is included in any rational consideration as part of the attack so part of ground zero.