timesjoke

To be accurate Bush never signed a so called "stimulus". What Bush did was pass the TARP and it was more designed for proping up the failing banks in a short term fix and allow the new Administration decide how to deal with it. I do see that as passing the buck but in all reality, what real alternative did Bush have? The liberals controlled Congress and already had their minds made up to prop up the banks they helped to break and even if Bush was able to hammer out some kind of alternative with months of fighting, his Presidency was almost over and he knew damn well that nothing he worked hard to create would survive for very long once Obama took office. The second and much more expanded TARP was all Obama and company as well as the monster "stimulus" where Obama spent more with one swipe of his pen then Bush spent in 7 years of war spending, lol. In one month Obama added more to the deficit than 7 years of Bush war spending, that should really get your attention if your a tax paying American.

KINKY!!! faints You know I did find her choice to be pretty telling, I wonder if she really imagined dragging the business end of a grater accross her labia and clitoris hood when she was responding to me and if so does that really mean she is more sexually drawn to me than she tries to show? Most women who are infatuated with a man they know they can't have to get very hostile to them as a way of compensating. It is certainly a possibility, lol.

All that is very sweet and I really do thank you for your permission to say what I want on this foum, but you still have not answered the question as to why you jumped to the conclusion that this man was telling lies? You certainly dance around the ability to try and redirect attention away from your need to assume this man was telling lies, but trying to paint me with insults does not change the fact that you did this emkay, and I wonder at why people like you feel so good about your ability to put down other people without even a basic excuse as to why you paint this man a liar.

It is sad but true that the progressives to mislead people to get them to go along with their own demise. I find it interesting that the writer found similarities to the Muslim concept of taqiyah, it does sort of show why progressives always look the other way when it is Muslims who are praying in schools and such......... Would that be called respect among thieves?

Wow! Good to deny the truth when it is staring you in the face, eddo. You mean like you trying to deny the truth that Obama has never had to "work hard" to make a living? I already admitted that Bush was no brick layer, he did not have to bust his azz to survive either, but he was in the private sector, making important business decisions (some good, some bad) while Obama has never had any experience in running anything but his mouth. Obama is a career government tit man, first on one side, now on the other side.

Accosting her? She decided to make a claim of lies about another person based on what Chi? Emkay decided to show her azz and make a nasty assumption about a complete stranger on a public forum Chi. If she keeps her assumption of lies from this man to herself then fine, nobody can comment, but if she shares her insane accusation against this man on this public forum then she invites comment. You both have your closed society forum where you can post whatever you want without anyone objecting to it at the jungle, if anyone does object you can simply have them removed so you can both go there if you desire the ability to post without other people responding to what you say. But you all know by now that I respond to posts on this forum and just the act of submitting your comments means you invite me to be a part of it. It is actually pretty silly to complain that I did reply to be honest.

I have no idea what that chart is supposed to show because we sure have not been gaining any jobs under Obama. Obama promised us 8% or lower unemployment if we rushed into passing his so called "Stimulus" bill and instead of helping the unemployment rate, it actually made it worse than even his own advisors said it would be if they did nothing at all. While Bush was in office we had 9/11, floods, hurricains, wars, and even out of control forest fires as well as all the normal stuff every President has to deal with and even with all that pain, all that mess, Bush with a republican congress kept employment up and production up. Only at the end of his Presidency, with a liberal Congress and that liberal congress ignoring the many warnings of Republicans about the housing market, did we see a massive failure of jobs and the crumbling of the housing market/banks begin. All this while Liberals controlled the purse strings. Bush was one man, incapable of going against the full weight of the liberals so you can't blame any of the mess at the end on him. On top of that, it was very clear that at the end of Bush's Presidency, that a very liberal President would most likely take his place. Business are run by pretty smart people most of the time and they knew that they had two choices with the impending issues they were facing. Trust that a new very liberal President would not be anti-business like all the rest, or assume he would be like the rest of the progressives that came before and take steps to insulate their companies from the mess they knew was comming. Obama drove as much of the early job loss as anyone else because he was expected to win and business knew if he did win, their pain would increase. So these companies trimmed their fat and got ready for the long starvation that was assured if he won. Even after the first of the year when Obama promised jobs would be his number one issue, he changed his mind and decided to force the healthcare changes through anyway, against his own promise to Americans and guess what, he still has done nothing for jobs. The liberals have the majority, they forced their healthcare plan through without the Republicans, they can do anything else they want to do too, so why are they and you so hung up on trying to blame the Republicans? Obama asked for this job, it was not forced on him. Obama has the ability to choose his own advisors and in the first year had the power to pass any legislation he desired because fo the super majority so he was the king, he was wearing the crown, he made the big decisions and now the results of those decisions are his fault. Let me ask you a question Bender. If the Stimulus had worked, would that be credited to Bush or Obama? Obviously you and the rest of you moonbats would have been singning Obama's greatness and skill at handling the problem....right? Well if Obama would get credit for it's success, then he must also get credit for it's monumental failure. By the way, I am still waiting for you to answer that question, as to why giving Unions an exemption to the new high taxes on health insurance policies was good for all Americans? How was that good for the Nation as a whole Bender?

Then why did you add in that last part saying you believed he lied emkay? I agree with the first part of your comment where he does not seem to bright, but then you turned to attacking the idea of guns in America and then ended with your assumption he was telling lies so why was that emkay, you tell me? TJ...I would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than get into another debate or discussion with you. Certainly interesting imagery but at the end of the day you still felt compelled to call this man a liar, why was that emkay, what about this man made you believe he was dishonest?

This was a statement by him claiming that the sanctions against Iraq were killing the people of Iraq, but we all know that Suddam was intentionally keeping the food and medical supplies from his own people so he could generate support in the liberal press, and it worked for awile. The truth that almost all those deaths were caused by their own leader is widely known but this so called "moderate" muslim is spreading lies against America. Why would someone who wants peace tell intentional lies? Is it really that complex? Either your killing innocents under false claims of religious need or your not in my book. By squirming around the pojnt and refusing to tell it like it is, you are justifying those terrorist actions. So terrorists are just trying to get attention, they are not bad people for blowing up a school bus filled with children, no, they are doing what anyone else would do.........right? Again, it is all America's fault...... In all his speaches, Rauf never defends America or point out our good deeds in the Muslim world. Not one word about how America saved Afganistan and how America has helped Muslims in places like Kosovo and Kuwait. All he ever tries to do is make excuses for bad Muslim behavior. Right there he downplays the involvement of Islam in the terrorist attackers and suicide bombers, he wants people to believe there is no difference between the suicide of someone who does not get tenure at their teaching possition and a Muslim terrorist who straps a bomb to his chest and goes looking for a big group of innocent infidels to take with him. Again, he offers excuses and justifications to these actions performed by terrorists. The innocents standing around a coffee shop are not a political target, they are victims and the attackers are driven by religious fury to kill the infidel any way they can. A one-state solution? Every time you hear the terrorists groups use that phrase what does it mean? The extermination of the jew, at the very least combining all people into one would place the jewish State into eradication, they would be out numbered almost two to one and will lose all their rights and ability to defent themselves. Imagine Hamas obtaining control of the military and the nuclear weapons that Israel possess, does this guy really think giving nuclear weapons to Hamas is a good idea? Even if the now in power muslims did not exterminate their long time foes, they would be in a possition to really get radical with their new found military might. You think they were violent before when they only had basic weapons, see what they do with this stuff. You guys really think this guy wants peace? Seems like they have you both brainwashed very well indeed, lol.

And part of our freedoms is to stand up for moral possitions Joker. We are supposed to be creating a society to be proud of. We are not robots Joker, we are human being and the things that give us the greatest pleasures in life are directly connected to our enotional side. Even beautiful music can generate an emotional reaction so this is what it really means to be human. I am very content with being an American, I get upset or irritated when people try to superimpose political correctness over the top of the American dream. You say your content, and it clearly shows in your being willing to believe terrorists are good and trustworthy people and those who hang out with those terrorists are also trustworthy. That is where your missing the point. It does not take all Muslims to be involved for this to work, it is already working, your defending them for their refusal to stand united against their terrorist elements. They have you doing part of their "Al-Taqiyah" work for them, now ain't that grand.... Your the product of a severely progressive school system where America is always the 'bad guy' and we should feel guilty for being strong, feel guilty for our success, feel guilty that even our very poor live 100 times better than the average person in a Muslim governed Nation. And where did I ever say they all do "it"? Your putting words in my mouth, what I have said is that there is not a unified voice against the radicals from the Muslim communities and even Hugo admitted I was right about that. While they don't "all" do these things, their refusal to come out firmly against these things is a sort of support for it. They don't seperate their lives into segments the way we do, we see our politics, out busines, and out faith as completely seperate things but Muslims believe everything is serving their religion. I keep pointing out that this is like the Christian dark ages, it took a unified Christian stand to end those bad activities and it will take a unified Muslim stan to end the Islamic terrorist problem. Nothing we do as Infidels will ever change anything in the Muslim world. Again, where did I say they all lie? You lie by trying to put that statement into my mouth. Yes, the original development of "Al-Taqiyah" was as you say, but it has developed into a wider usage, again, go educate yourself a little bit and you will see that things are not always what they seem to be: Every stratagem of war Joker. So why do even good Muslims show support for terrorists, one answer may be in the quran 8:72 where it commands Muslims to show support to any Muslim who is fighting oppression. Even you Joker seem to believe the words of terrorists who claim they are only fighting the only way they know how against American oppression so if a young American like you believes these words, why should a Muslim not believe it?

If your going to act like a child I will treat you as one. The wager is easy to understand even by a 5 year old, if your having to resort to this kind of garbage kid, your prove you already lost the arguement. So either man up and put your money where your mouth is or keep acting like a child. And how is any of that America's fault? Do you think he was anti-us when he accepted out help to fight off the Russians? He fell in love with the power, many leaders of men fall in love with the ability to command death. America could not have known that helping Afganistan fight off the Russians would have created a terrorist like OBL. We did help train some troops and such as well as provide lots of other help like weapons and such, but you dodged my question, why is it you only want to claim America did bad things but you ignore the greater good that America helped to save millions of lives in Afganistan? Why is it you only spout the propaganda offered by the terrorists as excuses but you refuse to give credit to the good America has done? Again, stop being a child, that was a very stupid thing to claim, for good or bad he was the only person capable of bringing enough men together to fight as a unified force against the Russians we could help. The alternative was to let millions of Afganistan people die, do you think that was what we should have done? And again, don't forget that the Russians would not have stopped there. This was one of the battlefields of the cold war Joker, and one of the reasons we won that war, you have to look at the broader picture before you condemn America. You can't possibly be that nieve. If your going to discuss these things at least educate yourself as to why negotiations with terrorists is impossible. First of all, they do not have one governing body, even Hezbollah has a constantly revolving leadership and when one agrees with a thing, someone else does not agree and refuses to honor the deal. Making peace with one terrorist does nothing to sway another terrorist, in fact many times the other terrorists will intentionally increase their activities to prove those in the deals have no power over them. We can only have honest negotiations with nations and countries that have a basis in laws, have a binding ability to set policy and a power to enforce those agreements. Nobody this imam is trying to keep the peach with has the power to enforce those agreements. So the refusal to call a terrorist a terrorist is simply counterproductive and it instead allows each of these individual splinters to feel legitimate because guys like this imam will treat them as heads of state instead of the monsters they really are. You dodged the question, try to pay attention this time. Do you trust the word of people who gladly target children? When these terrorists make claims as to "why" they do what they do people like you have to trust they are being honest about their motives and I wonder why you trust them to tell the truth when they have demonstrated they are not trustworthy. There is no honor in a man who will gut a child just for shock value. If they will gut a child, they will lie Joker. But he refuses to call them terrorists. Actions speak louder than words joker, this imam visits these terrorists ans shows them respect, he treats them as good and respectable people. If he truly believed these terrorists were bad people, he would shun them and refuse to deal with them, and if all the Muslim world would do this the terrorist problem would almost completely end overnight. These terrorists still want the acceptance of the general Muslim world, and this imam is giving them that acceptance By treating them like heads of state instead of treating them like the terrorists they are. If you met someone you knew killed hundreds of babies, would you shake their hand, have polite conversation, eat dinner and be their friend? Or would you shun them and stay away from them? Would you have the courage to maybe stand up to them and say they were doing wrong? We are talking about mass killers Joker. What, I have no idea what your trying to say. Either it is unconstutional or it is not for the Government to take away land from a private person. If it is okay to do it for one reason, then it is okay to do it for another. We have a Representative democracy where our elected officials are to represent us, not their own political correct agendas. I never said they were doing anything illegal, a strip club owner is not doing anything illegal either but our Government sometimes does block the construction of a strip club under moral issues all the time. The mosque on ground zero is no big deal "TO YOU" and I support your right as an American to not care about the 9/11 attacks, but you don't speak for all americans and most of us do care about the idea of building a terrorist monument on ground zero. I say again, it is your right to not be connected in any way to your Country, but it is my right as an American to be very concerned about attacks on this Nation. We were attacked because of the more radical elements of Islam that their own moderates refuse to condemn. People like this imam even hangsout with them and treat terrorists as heads of state. Terrorists do not deserve any respect and showing them respect adds to their belief they are doing good things under their religion. Building a terrorist monument on ground zero definately would impact my life because it would further degrade America and force it further into the pit of dispair blind political correctness always leads to. This time it is a mosque at ground zero, then what? Where do we draw a line and say "enough is enough"? Stop being an infant. The entire area is ground zero. In fact, all of New York was severely impacted by the attacks. This was not just an attack on two buildings Joker, this was an attack on Americans as a people. If you choose to brainwash yourself into believing this was just two buildings attacked then there is nothing I can do about that, self-delusion is very comon with the very young and the progressives but you can't force people like me to share in your delusions. The appeasement theory was tried for a long time, and it has failed every time. Clinton was about as soft on Muslims as you could ever find in a past President and the 9/11 attackers were here during his entire Presidency training for 9/11. 9/11 was the result of being soft and showing weakness, like the weakness you show. Everone claimed the more agressive stance of Bush would incite and anger the Muslims to attack us more but it had the exact opposite effect, they backed off and showed America more respect, no new attacks, now with another weak President who is playing the appeasement card with the Muslims we have more terrorist attacks again. Any idiot should be able to see appeasement and going soft only invites attacks. The terrorists are going to exist no matter what us infidels do, because they can't possibly hate us more then they already do. The only thing that can stop the terrorists are fellow Muslims standing up against them. No, it has nothing to do with their religion, everything I am against is their actions. Killing babies is not okay just because they hide behind the Islamic faith Joker. You want to give them all a free pass for refusing to fight their own terrorist elements, I am not. The second peopel like this imam starts to shun the terrorists I will be there standing next to them holding their hand sharing in their work. But it is "THEIR" work to do.

Well as I have pointed out before, taxes on business are considered a "cost of doing business" and treated as any other overhead. All business taxes are passed down to the consumer. When the progressives talk about increasing taxes on the 'rich' most of them are small and large business owners who simply pass those taxes down to the consumers. So each time you hear about taxes being raised, understand that is code for "you are about to spend more for everything you buy". The thing small business needs is less confusion and complexity from all levels of Government to operate a business. While someone may be very gifted doing some service he can sell, that same guy may not be able to understand and navigate the complex mess that the various Government entities requires him to do. Simplicity is the key to helping the new business owner get off the ground. And don't forget the Democrats also had control of the congress for the last two years of Bush too, right when everything was falling apart, it was the Progressives who had the real control, not Bush. Add to that the biggest reason for the housing and bank mess was from legislation passed and made stronger by the progressives to force giving loans for homes to people who could not afford those loans under normal bank rules. Then in 2004 when the Republicans tried to warn the progressives that something was going wrong, the Democrats claimed there was nothing to be concerned about and used the race card to get the Republicans to back down. All of this mess is the fault of the Progressives who refused to heed warnings offered by Republicans and who had the majority of control when things started falling apart as predicted and warned by the Republicans. Nice video IWS, but Obama does not possess the understanding of how free markets work and no desire to learn. The goal is always to put the Government in control of everything, but they are not stupid, they know they can't take too much too fast so they take over as much as they can, and hurt what they can't take over to set up an excuse to take that over too later down the road when they claim there is no other alternative. Considering that, it is almost logical to say maybe they set op the banks to fail on purpose as well, consider how much power they now possess because of that failure. That would certainly explain why they ignored the many warnings from Republicans this was comming.

The free market system allows for failure. Don't feel bad about not understanding it, few do that have not had advanced business instruction but I will try to offer you a simple reply. The notion that all of those jobs would have ended is completely false and is spread around by progressives to justify their socialist takeover of GM. When a massive company like GM fails, it is not just one company, it is a combination of many, many companies and splinters, some of these are bad sure, but some of them are good too. What is supposed to happen under reorganization (bankruptcy) is the good parts of the company are salvaged and the bad parts are broken up and sold off. The new, fat trimmed portions of the company are now able to move foward without the massive overhead of the bad segments of the company holding it back. This is a normal result of bad management of a company and the courts steepping in to do what it can to fix it. So why is it Obama and his progressive agenda would not allow the established laws to settle this problem? Unions, reorganization would have broken the stranglehold the UAW had on GM and after so many years of loyal dedication to Liberals and their campaigns, many millions of dollars spent to help them win elections, and Obama getting more than anyone else in history from the UAW, there was no way Obama was going to turn his back on them in their time of need. The banking industry would have been the same thing, there were strong segments and weak segments, the established free market system has no problem rebalancing these things if the Government steps back and leaves it alone, but when the Government meddles in free markets, we get the mess we still have right now. The housing market is still out of balance, they have Government money and promises propping up the market and keeping prices well above where they should be. If the banks were allowed to feel their failures the market would have rebalanced in 8 to 12 months and we would now be well past the pain and well on the road to full recovery instead of treading water with no end in sight. All free markets need certainty, they have to have set rules and set penalties, when the Federal Government steps in and changes the rules in isolated ways it disrupts everything. Now everyone in business is off balance, wondering what and where the next 'exception' will be. I love you too Builder, so tell me, you really believe Bush was so brilliant he pulled off 9/11 as an inside job while Bill Clinton could not get away with playing 'hide the cigar' with miss piggy in the center of his power base? Simply incredible, especially after thousands of hard scientists have some out and said things like explosives and such were impossible. I especially love the one where the wackos claim it was a missle that hit the Pentagon. Hundreds of civilian first responders were on sceene before most of the government people and they all reported seeing things like bodies so how do you suppose Bush hit the building wiht a missle, then planted the dead bodies, then got the trucks of bodies out before the first responders got there? Or do you wackos believe all the civilians were in on the conspiracy too? Talk about a joke, you have to be close to insane to belive that 9/11 was an inside job.

Well we agree on at least one thing and that is the Unions used to have a great purpose. Today Unions commend even our President to do their bidding, they have become a legal Mafia. Your friend making more money does seem unfair on the surface, but that kind of overhead is difficult to maintain and that business must compete against other places who don't have that kind of overhead, this is another big reason we have lost a lot of industry to other Countries. Again, I understand the 'theory' why progressives do these thing, but the reality is, business cannot survive as long as they are seen as the enemy and constantly attacked for more, and more, and more until we kill them off. Like the story of the golden goose, there are only so many eggs to go around.......

Then why did you add in that last part saying you believed he lied emkay? I agree with the first part of your comment where he does not seem to bright, but then you turned to attacking the idea of guns in America and then ended with your assumption he was telling lies so why was that emkay, you tell me?

They certainly are not in the hands of Obama the job killer. If you go back to before Obama was elected I predicted that Obama will go down in history as the guy who killed the most private sector jobs as President, and this guy is doing exactly that. You can't encourage business growth and creating new jobs if your at the same time attacking those who create business and jobs. Obama has spent almost 2 straight years attacking business owners as evil, now how are these same people supposed to create jobs when it is clear Obama is out to hurt them? We will not see any real job growth until the job creaters no longer feel like the enemy Bender. Bull, during the healthcare discussions IWS posted at least 10 detailed alternatives that you completely ignored and pretended did not exist, one was about dropping the restriction of selling insurance accross state lines, the Republicans offered it and the liberals rejected it even though almost all experts agreed it would lower the actual cost of insurance around 10%. As the video showed, the only time Obama does this is when he knows nothing can happen this close to an election. It's called politics as usual, something Obama promised not to do but has become a master at it instead of honoring his promise. They say no because he will take one Republican idea, attach it to a thousand bad ideas from them and claim the bill is bi-partisan. They say no because the overall bill is bad for the Country. It is called being responsible. That single good Republican idea is not strong enough to overcome the thousand bad ideas. I have to say I don't understand what you were trying to say with that part. We want the progressives out because they are bankrupting the Country. What good is it to have power when the Nation is falling apart because progressives don't respect money and where it comes from? Well those voters did elect that lying progressive in the first place Bender. Obama was elected on the backs of independents who were promised a moderate, a guy who promised to bring both sides together. A guy who sold the idea of "change" and "hope" but the second Obama got into office, he became the most partisan and divisive President to ever hold office. If you really care about the poor you let them have jobs instead of Government handouts. If you really care about the poor you don't pass things like cap-and-tax that will tripple the cost of heating, something the very poor in the North might even die because they can't afford to heat their homes. If you really care about the poor you enforce the borders and save tax funds to care for them instead of wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on supporting illegals who don't add ot the federal tax funds. Are the voters stupid? No, I think they are just gullible and really hoped Obama would be different. But their hope did not end up to be true and now it is time to look past hope and do the responsible thing by removing the elitist progressives out of power so they will stop trying to transform America into a daycare center. Hey, if it could work I would almost agree to it but we have California as the prime example of what happens when you let progressives run something. That alone should let any smart person know the progressives are not sane individuals. By the way, you still have never answered my question as to why all Americans needed Obama to give big Unions a free pass on the new taxes on insurance policies? What exactly did that do to improve the healthcare of average Americans?

Why would he have to? Is there really a big difference between protecting yourself from 15 gang members? 10 gang members? Your missing the point, we have a guy who is following the law and is defending his home while intruders are on his lawn and making threats to his family, but he is the guy you two think is possibly dishonest? Seriously? Why assume he lied? I will give him the benefit of the doubt until an actual reason is offered to doubt him.

I agree he was not completely smart in his actions, but why do you assume is is telling a lie about how many people were in his yard? You assume a gun owner is not capable of telling the truth? The guy may not be the brightest person in the world, but that does not make him dishonest. What would have made him deserve the benefit of the doubt emkay? Is laying down and allowing yourself to be a victim somehow considered the only way a person can be honest in your world? Your right atlantic, there will most likely be an attack on him later on and will the police be there to stop the attack? This man should leave, and I guess that is the real moral ot this story, your only two options in places like this is let yourself die like a good citizen, or move away.

How thick can you possibly get, TJ? Sounds like a better question for you Builder, how think are you, or better yet how self-blinded are you? I said he had experience in his own business deals, even the wiki page you posted (wiki is not considered a reliable source of information) showed he did have business experience, maybe some good, some not as good, but still he had the experiences while Obama has had "ZERO". This was a discussion about your poem where it talked about "hard work" and yet Obama has never worked hard a day in his life and has never had to create a living outside of the liberal elite circles of government grants and entitlements. But you can't bring yourself to admit that about Obama.

In the most common use of force matrix for law enforcement, the first level of force is called "Officer Presence". The concept is that the officer just being visible is a threat of possible violence. So when a person is all alone and outnumbered is that not potentially a deadly situation? He says there were over 20 people there in his yard all showing hostility and we all know that group dynamics of this sort lead to a mob mentality where they all turn into out of control animals once one crosses the line. So 1 guy facing down 20 or 30 possible gang members? I can where firing a warning shot was not unreasonable, he could just as easily claimed they rushed him and started firing into the crowd that was in his yard and then what? I am not sure of the laws in long island but in Florida your allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself on your own property. That said, he was pretty stupid to go outside with his gun showing in the first place, call the cops and see if they show up. Establish a record of trying to get help with the situation and when the gang mambers come back, you can have a better possition to defend yourself as to why you had to shoot someone. Remember, the police cannot protect you, they can only show up and play janitor and possibly discover evidence to catch the guys who killed you and your family after the fact. A great deal of gang related killings are not solved though, so you have to decide when dealing with a gang if it is better to move away or stand up to them on your own. As big as I am on self-defense, I would want to stand up to them, but where my kids are concerned I think I would just pack up and move away from the gang area. Police and private citizens have to follow the rules, gangs don't. Oh, the charge "A D felony reckless endangerment — requires a depraved indifference to human life, creating a risk that someone’s going to die." I don't see that sticking, firing rounds into the ground is not in of itself putting life into danger. There would have to be a more direct assumption that the bullets could hit someone, take shooting into a building or a car for example. There is no reason for the person to believe his shooting rounds into the grass would ever cause possible harm and in fact his actions were intended and designed to warn off possible attackers and preserve life. The real question is, when confronted by a mob of people who could easily over power you and kill you, is it reasonable to try and get them to back off with discharging a weapon into the ground? It certainly does warn the crowd of people who are advancing on him that the weapon does function and is loaded, this will give ample warning to all there that he is capable of defending himself. Once that point was made any further advance would certainly prove their hostile intent. But as I said, standing out in the open doing it all was certainly stupid, he was an open target for anyone with even basic shooting skill to take out. He should have stayed inside his house. For those that believe the police are there to protect you from gang like this, take some time looking into cases like DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services. and Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department By the way, did anyone else notice that only the home owner trying to protect his family went to jail but the gang tresspassing and threatenging to kill his family were not? Your tax dollars at work, lol.

Nice word play but you know what the wager is, I wager that this mosque will not be built on ground zero "as planned" (for the progressives that means where it is planned to built right now). What will you like to bet? We can use IWS as the verification of the bet, send him the paypal money, let's put your money where your mouth is Joker. What does that have to do with anything? I was trained by the US Army to kill people, but do I run around targeting innocent children for shock value? The CIA also saved Afganistan, without American help, OBL and all of Afganistan would have been crushed, and do you think the Russians would have stopped there? America did not make OBL the killer of innocents, they trained him to fight other soldiers, the transformation from soldier to terrorist was his own doing and not the fault of America. He "claims" it is because he wants to remain 'neutral' with all sides, I have read a lot about this radical imam, but that is exactly the point, if he refuses to take sides, and other Muslims learn from his example and also desire to stay neutral, that is the real problem, these so called "moderates" are not taking sides when they should be taking sides. Terrorists cannot be reasoned with, what makes these idiots believe they can reason with someone who is willing to intentionaly kill children? Do you believe a guy who gladly kills children can be trusted Joker? The way to bring peace is to toss aside the radicals, diminish them and refuse to give into their demands, this imam is actually making the terrorist situation worse by helping the terrorists to feel legitimate and respected by the general Muslim world. I believe what is logical, why would the terrorists change or stop their actions when people like this imam show them respect and acceptance? The terrorists need to be isolated and shunned, not respected. You can put words into my mouth all you want but as I already pointed out, we give people like Donald Trump free land all the time by taking it away from other Americans. If that is not unconstitutional, then blocking a terrorist monument on ground zero is not either. They don't have the right to build anything they want anwhere they want, I also already pointed out that the Government blocks the opening of things like strip clubs all the time because of community concern. This terrorist monument will be way more offensive than a strip club so it is reasonable to block it's construction. Sure it does, New York is part of America and the attacks on New York were a purely American experience just like Pearl Harbor. Americans were murdered by the same kinds of friends as this imam loves to hang out with, and being as he is still hiding the source of the money being used to build the mosque, I would bet something like this was plannned from the beginning. As an American I have a right not to support the building of a terrorist monument on the site of a muslim attack on america. Just because the attack did not mean anything to you, do not believe all Americans are as disconnected to their Country as you are. Maybe, maybe not, the point is they could be and people like you are part of the problem. Your disconnected from your own Country and you want to trust those who have never earned that trust over your own Country. "Al-Taqiyah" is very real my friend, and the reason it has worked so well for the Muslims is because they are masters at it. They use people like you to help them, willing discontents in our own society are the bread and butter for "Al-Taqiyah". Not honest about "Al-Taqiyah"? That would sort of defeat the purpose right? Pretending to be "moderate" and even pretending to not be Muslim is actually part of the process, go read up on "Al-Taqiyah" and maybe you will see why people like OBL told those lies about what their motivations were, maybe not, you seem a tad too brainwashed to really be able to understand the complexities of "Al-Taqiyah". Hi Builder, the events of 9/11 were wide spread and just like any explosion, the specific point of detionation is not the only spot that becomes part of the event. This proposed site for the terrorist monument was involved in the 9/11 event and parts of an airplane were recovered from it, so yes, this site is part of ground zero to all Americans who are connected to their Country and not a discontent as most progressives are discontent. The Mosque will be a shining beacon for all radical Islam that they can succeed, they can hurt America with hard work and sacrifice. Every follower of Islam will know that terrorist actions are rewarded even in this life with monuments to their sacrifice and myrtodom.

Well like IWS just pointed out, this set of ideas were already offered by Republicans and Obama shot them down, and as we see in the video also offered by IWS, the only reason Obama has turned to Republicans for ideas is because this is a political season and he desperately needs a "win" for his side. I have watched IWS post idea after idea each time you claim Republicans don't have ideas and each and every time you pretend to not see what IWS posts, I myself ask you direct questions over and over that you ignore because you can't answer them without admitting the progressives are wrong. You don't see the Conservative ideas because you have brainwashed yourself into believing there will never be a good idea and so you will not allow yourself to acknowledge they exist. But Obama has noticed. I mean....he can't steal their ideas if he does not notice them right? Let me add something else. I already hinted at a good idea in my first post. Right now Americans are sitting on their money, in some cases in non-interest bearing accounts at levels higher then any other time in recent history. Why? Because of the unstable nature of doing business in America right now. The biggest problem with you progressives treating business owners like the enemy is they back off, they protect their money and investments from you and your insane taxes. The harder you push to steal more of their money, the less they give you access to it so you end up actually getting less revinue from them than in "tax collection". You progressives falsly believe that just because you increase their taxes, you get more money. If the business people were stupid, then you would be correct, but they are not stupid. You can't tax what they don't spend. You can't tax what is not earned. You cannot tax money that is sitting still and not invested. So you increase your taxes and end up with less tax revinue and sit around scratching your heads wondering why......... So the solution is a simple one at first, get out of the way. Reward business people to invest their money, get the cycle started again where people feel confident to invest their money and the jobs will start rebuilding in the private sector again.

lol, you miss the point, your own 'poem' talked about "hard work" to attack Bush but Obama has never had to do "hard work" his entire life either, in fact his entire life has been sucking money from grants and such as IWS pointed out, and now a career in politics, it is incredibly difficult to respect money when you never had to go out and "work hard" to earn money, on either side of the political spectrum. At least Bush learned a good respect of money through his father and managing his own business deals, while Obama never had even that.

Because we only have first amendment rights when it is politically correct.........at least according to the progressive mindset. Hey, I think this guy is way over the top too, his actions are intentionally provocative but not near the level of the GZM. But the GZM is wanted by Muslims and the progressives will bend over backwards for Muslims. I seem to remember a few stories od bible and american flag burning in other Countries in the past, as well as a few celebrations for the 9/11 attacks even by Muslims here in America, so I really don't think this one idiot burning a Kuran is really that big of a deal. I am sure he will become a target of anger for his actions, they might even kill him for it, but I don't think you can anger the Muslims more then they already are, they already want to kill all infidels, not sure how you can get more angry than that......

I can't really remember what number we are on but after many, many failed attempts to spend our way into prosperity, Obama is again asking for a new stimulus bill to "create jobs"........ This time he says it si to build roads and such...but is that not what the first big stimulus bill was supposed to be for? Shovel ready projects that would boost jobs? What happened to those roads? Wow. When is enough considered enough? We all get it, the only thing progressives know is spend, spend, spend and increase taxes, that is their solution for everything. But the American people have spoken, they are tired of this attitude that spending money we don't have is okay. Yes, Republicans did it too, nobody is letting them off the hook, but how do we improve this problem by making it worse? How do we justify more out of control spending by pointing a finger at the past and saying "well someone else spent too much too...."? The only reason to look at the past is to try and avoid mistakes made in that past. Obama promised us unemployment below 8% if we gave him his stimulus bill without reading it: [attach=full]2976[/attach] And how did that work out? Lots of people say that things were wrose than they thought and Obama is not to blame but really, who selected the experts he relied on? If his choices are that bad then it is still his fault for making decisions based on the advise of idiots who don't know what they are talking about so why should we think he can do better when he still has most of the same people working for him, giving him advise? I say stop, stop everything, let the Country get it's breath and back off all the new spending to include the new entitlements we can't afford while the American people work hard to rebuild their lives. Expert after expert agrees that the current administration has the business world scared to death because they don't know what is next, what to count on or what can be invested in without severe penalties from the Whitehouse. A new piece of legislation could pass tomorrow that could change an investment from a profitable one to one that costs millions in losses. There is no way jobs can be created in this confusion. Business needs certainty, and that is one thing they cannot have under this Administration.