9/11 -- Was it real?

[azemkamikaze03]

I mean it's easy and some what logical to say that Terrorists did it. I did initially. It seemed as though terrorists had the perfect motive, but I mean when you really look deep into the whole story you realize that there is more to it.

 

[UnhingedMouse0]

Not to mention eyewitness reports that they saw a plane that appeared to be of military brand.

Well that would actually make sense...

Its the ****** Pentagon! You think they wouldent have alot of security, both ground and air, around that place? Even if people said that it flew over only seconds after the hit, how well do you think that their judgement of time would be after just seeing some gigantic thing smash into the side of a building?

Another place like that were they have TONS of security and protection is Washington DC and especially around the White House. I dont find it strange at all that there would be a military plane flying by only minutes after the attack. *shrug*

 

[LSUTiger]

justin.. go home. you lose at life... you ******* nerd.hahahah... yeah, i pretty much rock your face off.

oh, and yeah.. i know this is off topic...

go die.

Go do your geometry homework and leave me alone!

I loooooove you!

 

[Hahninator]

Take a look at

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_33;_ylt=Av6V1iWvd0aKDjgexMGtNk5qP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Pres Bush says they stopped an attack on the West Coast. bullshit. it seems all real, but the thing that got me deciding it was fake was when it says

"""""""""In his speech, at the National Guard Memorial Building, Bush said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the reputed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, began planning the West Coast operation in October 2001. One of Mohammed's key planners was a man known as Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al-Qaida.

"Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on Sept. 11, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed sought out young men from Southeast Asia — whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion," Bush said."""""""""

Khalid did not plan 9/11. The Government did. Arab hijackers weren't used on 9/11 either. Some of them are still alive. So that proves all this to be bullshit.

However, I did not know the US Government planned to attack the West Coast as well as the East Coast on September 11th O_____O

obviously the lack of letting the LA Governor means that Bush and his group probably made it up sometime recently.

 

[azemkamikaze03]

Take a look at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_33;_ylt=Av6V1iWvd0aKDjgexMGtNk5qP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Pres Bush says they stopped an attack on the West Coast. bullshit. it seems all real, but the thing that got me deciding it was fake was when it says

"""""""""In his speech, at the National Guard Memorial Building, Bush said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the reputed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, began planning the West Coast operation in October 2001. One of Mohammed's key planners was a man known as Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al-Qaida.

"Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on Sept. 11, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed sought out young men from Southeast Asia — whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion," Bush said."""""""""

Khalid did not plan 9/11. The Government did. Arab hijackers weren't used on 9/11 either. Some of them are still alive. So that proves all this to be bullshit.

You said some. Where are the rest?

 

[LSUTiger]

Bock on topic now. All those light pole positions, lawn grooming, freaking barometric pressure differences arguments are just too baseless to get a grasp on from the confines of the internet. Also, trying to decipher what happened from behind your keyboard is also a rediculous task. Oh, and the black boxes only record radio transmissions if there are any. The terroists didn't exactly pop on the horn and "Tango Tango, Allah Akbar" if you know what I mean. A black box is going to tell you, once again, telemetry, and radio silence until the crash.

Having said that, it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for ***** and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?

 

[LSUTiger]

Take a look at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_33;_ylt=Av6V1iWvd0aKDjgexMGtNk5qP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Pres Bush says they stopped an attack on the West Coast. bullshit. it seems all real, but the thing that got me deciding it was fake was when it says

"""""""""In his speech, at the National Guard Memorial Building, Bush said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the reputed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, began planning the West Coast operation in October 2001. One of Mohammed's key planners was a man known as Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al-Qaida.

"Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on Sept. 11, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed sought out young men from Southeast Asia — whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion," Bush said."""""""""

Khalid did not plan 9/11. The Government did. Arab hijackers weren't used on 9/11 either. Some of them are still alive. So that proves all this to be bullshit.

However, I did not know the US Government planned to attack the West Coast as well as the East Coast on September 11th O_____O

obviously the lack of letting the LA Governor means that Bush and his group probably made it up sometime recently.

You're an idiot. Oh, and tell Mohammed to blow my **** next time you bow to the east.

 

[Fort_Underground]

Well that would actually make sense...
Its the ****** Pentagon! You think they wouldent have alot of security, both ground and air, around that place? Even if people said that it flew over only seconds after the hit, how well do you think that their judgement of time would be after just seeing some gigantic thing smash into the side of a building?

Another place like that were they have TONS of security and protection is Washington DC and especially around the White House. I dont find it strange at all that there would be a military plane flying by only minutes after the attack. *shrug*

Unhinged it seems you took my post on of context. I said the plane that crashed into the pentagon appeard to be of miltary brand. Not that their were military planes flying around. I am only saying that to the peole who can see all of the flights. And they said that the plane appeared to be of military breed because of its speed and manuverability. Anyways, I was talking about one of the panes that crashed into the towers. Some eyewitnesses say that they saw a plane with a blue symbol on the front and no windows, which would indicate a freight plane. Anyway, I still think the government had something to do with 9/11. I mean, when the 2nd plane hit, there was an explosion on the building right before it hit. There was something extra on that plane. Boeing never said what it was due to measures of national security, but now why not release the information? Also on the attack of the pentagon, it seems no1 is taking into consideration a few things. LSU, I would like to know your take as to wheater a boeing 757 can leave small, neat holes when it goes through 3 levels of reinforced concrete. Also, why hasn't the FBI released any of the footage on the attack of the pentagon? The hotel video hasn't been released. The gas station video hasnt been released. The cameras from the highway were never released. Now you can claim it as a matter of national security, but why not now release them? I mean, America has taken over Afghanistan and Iraq, so why would you worry about it now. And what is the worst that can happen? We see that it wasn't a Boeing 757 that hit the pentagon?

 

[Clogz]

Having said that' date=' it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for ***** and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?[/quote']
This pretty sums up what I think of these conspiracy theories. Right on, dude.

 

[azemkamikaze03]

Bock on topic now. All those light pole positions, lawn grooming, freaking barometric pressure differences arguments are just too baseless to get a grasp on from the confines of the internet. Also, trying to decipher what happened from behind your keyboard is also a rediculous task. Oh, and the black boxes only record radio transmissions if there are any. The terroists didn't exactly pop on the horn and "Tango Tango, Allah Akbar" if you know what I mean. A black box is going to tell you, once again, telemetry, and radio silence until the crash.
Having said that, it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for ***** and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?

I see where you are coming from, but people do things for irrational reasons. I mean I can see no reason why Bush would want to do something as terrible as orchestrate what happened with the Twin Towers.

The only small reason I could think that iis that he wanted it to happen so that he could tie it into Iraq and then declare war.

But I mean I don't know, I'm just trying to see what other people have found and other peoples views and then form my own opinion.

 

[Fort_Underground]

Bock on topic now. All those light pole positions, lawn grooming, freaking barometric pressure differences arguments are just too baseless to get a grasp on from the confines of the internet. Also, trying to decipher what happened from behind your keyboard is also a rediculous task. Oh, and the black boxes only record radio transmissions if there are any. The terroists didn't exactly pop on the horn and "Tango Tango, Allah Akbar" if you know what I mean. A black box is going to tell you, once again, telemetry, and radio silence until the crash.
Having said that, it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for ***** and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?

Well I would guess the reason would be that we would gain to easy public support to invade Afghanistan. And then why were are at it, lets take over Iraq and its oil fields. And hey, Iran is now looking like it might be a threat, so Im sure my country will investigae and find WMDs and then invade that country as well. And while were at it, why not take over North Korea? You see my point? From this my government as gained easy public support for the war. I however, think we had no buisness what so ever invadion Iraq. I mean every single country has the potenial to create Nuclear Warheads. Im sure my country has enough to blow up the entire world. So what are we going to do about nuclear warheads you say? Not a **** thing. If we look at everything the way we did in Iraq, we should invade all of Africa and some parts of Asia as well, since they all have the poential to create WMDs. Of course if we do that, we should ourselves dissemble all of our nuclear missles, since we have created them and can use them to create mass destruction. Of course, America never will. We want to be a superpower, and are almost succesful in doing that. To other countries, America is seen as war hungry, and always eager for a fight. I mean, we have been in at least one war conflict since 1920. Nearly 100 years weve been at war, and because of that weve amounted a 2 trillion dollar debt, which wont be solved by passing laws to give billions of dollars to the defense administration while were on the war path. Anyway, back on topic. LSU, how do we know 9/11 was the governments begging in to taking over middle eastern oil fields? Our contry could stand to make billions off of oil, since it dissapearing. Yet though, we import the majoity of our oil from Canada. But, they are our friends and allies, so no way we can attack and invade them, because then the UN would step in and kick our ***. But when it comes to the Middle East and those countries, they dont care. To me, it seems as though 9/11 was the first domino to fall in America taking over the oil fields.

P.S. Sorry for the rant

 

[LSUTiger]

But the thing about oil is we don't "need" to takeover middle east oil. We still have Alaskan oil fields, stockpiled oil to last half a century, we've stunted oil rigs in the Gulf and East Coast, we still have the ENTIRE West Coast UNTOUCHED!!! Also, Hydrogen, Fuels Cells, Nuclear Energy; there's so much more in the future, energy-wise, that the dire need for oil isn't going to be around that much longer.

Plus, Bush only has 8 years to "take over the world" as some of you are suggesting. If Bush is so corrupt, and so bad, why has he not done anything you guys are suggesting in the 6 ******* years he's been president! We don't control Middle East oil, we haven't started any "domino" effect to take over ****. I mean, you know after 2008, a whole new set of rocks gets thrown into the Whitehouse, right? That means Bush has less than two years to invade Iran, North Korea, Syria.....Kansas, anywhere else you think he's gonna unleash this military coo? Come on, dude.

Is it that far of a stretch on your imagination to think that maybe the President of the United States has the best interest of this country at heart. That maybe, just maybe, he's invading countries and crushing the most powerful terrorist organization for YOUR safety. I mean honestly!

 

[Hahninator]

LSU dude, just look at the videos. The Pentagon is obvious. Why was there no wake turbulence or shaking of cars or anything when the plane was going 530MPH no less than 20ft off the ground?

How can the plane punch those neat holes in the wall through the concrete and steel? Add that to the other factors.

Then there's the WTCs. Buildings 1, 2, and 7 were evacuated for some time the week before and power was taken off. Security cameras were useless and many people had access inside the buildings. Funny how those are the 3 towers that collapsed huh? Then explain the videos where explosions are seen coming from the building before it fell. You know, the ones right when it started falling, and even when the planes hit. Then explain how the firefighters witnessed lots of explosions throughout the building, and how a ******* crash 72 floors up will blow out all the elevators, break windows on the 1st floor and rip the marble off the walls on the first floor.

But I'm not sure I believe what they're saying about Shanksville (specifically the cell phone calls). There's just not enough proof to render it fake. However, if we add up all of this information, including lots of evidence the WTC and Pentagon attacks were planned by us, then it seems like that crash was planned too.

Lastly, I'll find the link of the terrorists who are alive and well for you.

 

[Fort_Underground]

LSU you do make some good points, and yes Bush only has 2 years to do all im saying, but im not talking about just him. Im talking about over our history all that we have done. You say we have left the West Coast of the US untoached, and we will unitl its necesary. Because of the large population in California, there gonna have a hard time putting up huge oil drills sites. But in response to saying that our president may have the best intentions, I say you are a conservative. Our presidnet is a moron. He should never have been in offica in the first place, but thanks to our electorial college he gets voted in. You know that he called for a plan to have a moon base by 2010? and a Mars base by 2020? Have you noticed how much he stumbles and sturtters on his speeches? How he cant rember where the exit is after he gives a speech? But as you say why hasnt he done anything in the past 6 years? Well im not saying it was his whole idea in the first place. I mean ****, hes got plenty of friends in the Middle East, so I don't think that it was his idea. I am talking about our country in general. But then again, remember how we invaded Afghanistan very quickly. Which was fine because Osama was thought to have been there. But we will never find him. Then something happened. Osama Bin Laden = Saddam Hussein. So now we go send invetigators who say there are WMDs and so now we all go. But loy and behold, we don't find any existance of them at all. And now US Soliders are dieng every day because suicide bombers are killing them. Sure we took over the country, but we still havent won. We never will be able to control it. Noboady can unless you go and arrest every single person involved with the terroists. Also on a side note did you know that Afghanistan was the worlds leading producer in poppy plants? I dont need to tell you what that makes. Anyway LSU you realize we have used up half of the worlds oil? At that rate within 100 years we will run out, then synthetic oil will rule. So I will say this, I did go a little far in accussing our country of taking over all the oil. But I do mean we did take all of Iraqs. But to stay on topic, LSU you still avoid my question. If our government is protecting us why dont they let us see the tapes of the plane that hit the pentagon. Why wasnt their any wreakage what so all of a plane. How can their still be intact windows when a plane going 530 just hit the building? When you think about all of this, I don't see how you cant at least think that the government is hiding something from us. Unfortinatly for them people took notice of what happened and now they are wanting answers.

 

[djwakka]

Okay, I'm just going to keep it simple since i skimmed a long of useless wording in this thread.

Some sturdy facts without who did what, and who to blame. These are based on the laws of science and physics.

(1) An airplane cannot bring down an extremely fortified building alone, especially if the airplane did not hit at the base of building.

(2) Jet fuel, kerosene, cannot melt nor combust any titanium, therefore most aircraft parts cannot simply "disentegrate" (Pentagon)

(3) Hahninator is right. More than half of the "terroists" that allegedly hijacked and/or helped carry out the 9/11 attacks are healthy and alive.

(4) The government had an actual project of ramming airplanes into the Pentagon. (see 2nd edition, Loose Change)

(5) No Boeing 757 parts were found at the Pentagon site, which is the plane government officials claimed crashed into the building.

But i have some straight facts for LSU Tiger's side as well.

(1) Bush did not fly an airplane into the World Trade Center.

(2) Bush did not fly an airplane into the Pentagon.

(3) Bush did not fly and crash onto a field on 9/11.

 

[LSUTiger]

Okay, seriously, I cannot answer all 300 questions that get posted every 5 minutes. I try to answer as many as possible, but I'm going to skip some....it's not on purpose, I promise. Anyways, I read something about turbulent wake, and nobody feeling anything, so I'll start with that one.

Turbulence doesn't "spread" like you are thinking. There are only two kinds of turbulence. One is generated by the unsteady conditions of our world. This is unavoidable, and not something you are going to "feel" outside of an airplane anyways. The other kind is what the plane generates itself when it disturbs the air it flies through. This type of turbulence ONLY EXISTS IN THE PATH OF THE PLANE!!! I cannot stress that enough. Turbulence does not "spread" away from the plane, to you, a bystander on the ground. The only people that could of "felt" turbulence from the plan would have to of been DIRECTLY behind the plane! What you do "feel", however, when a large plane flys by at close range is the enourmous sound waves being generated by the turbine engines. Sound waves are essentially pressure waves. That's why water in a glass gets disturbed if you clap your hands near it. The point is, sound waves propagating from a plane flying at subsonic speeds isn't going to "shake cars" or rumble the earth like some of you are thinking. It's just going to be really, really loud.

Another question. The "neat" holes. This is just a rediculous question in itself. Who are you to know what a "neat" hole is? And just what do you mean by "neat" anyways. The cross section of the hole in the pentagon perfectly matches the effective cross section of a commercial airplane. As far as "neat" is concerned, it looked pretty destructive to me. I mean, ****, the crash went through like 2 full rings of the pentagon, and entered the third ring if I remember correctly. I don't know why you people tend to think the destruction was supposed to be so horizontal. Go shoot a bullet through ballistics gel. The destruction goes deep inside, it doesn't propagate out.

More questions that can be answered with pure logic:

An airplane cannot bring down a fortified building, correct. But thousands of degrees of heat can cause the infrastructure on certain floors to weaken, causing all subsequent floors above to crash down on the weak floor. Therefor starting a toppling effect all the way down. This is EXACTLY what happened. Discovery channel did a two hour show expalining exactly what cause the buildings to fall. It is well known, and even accepted by the uber-liberals who love this **** that the buildings fell on their own. The "explosion" before the fall was due to the pressure increase inside the floors right before they collapsed. That "pushed" all the flames out the side of the building really quickly.

Boeing 757 parts "were" found. Jet fuel can melt titanium, ****, your CAR ENGINE can melt titanium. I know this for a FACT. I've seen titanium valves springs melt on racecar engines that overheat. See: Top Fuel Dragsters.

Living Terrorists? I haven't heard of any. And if you throw some Al-Jazeera, or french website that says they are, I'm not going to believe it. You're buying into the hype by reading that ****.

******* ****.

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

I've always respected you, for things like this. I feel the need to share that now.

On to my only question thus far which springs from what you had just explained.

The cross section of the hole in the pentagon perfectly matches the effective cross section of the hole in the pentagon.

I'm really not understanding that statement. Is it a mistype or something? Ir did you mean to actually say that. If you did, please explain it for me, if you don't mind.

 

[LSUTiger]

Your missing a word, "effective". That hole matches the "effective" cross section of a commercial plane. Effective due to what I was explaning earlier. Think about an airplane for a second. It's huge. It's extremely heavy. EXCEPT for the wings. When engineers desing airplane wings, the make them out of the lightest material possible. Why? Well, engineers try to make planes as "light" as possible because the lighter the plane, the less fuel it will take to make it fly. That's a good thing!

What does this mean for the pentagon? Well, you've got this huge mass flying towards a building, but ALL the mass is in the fuselage, NOT the wings. So when the wing made contact with the building, you're talking about this rediculously heavy building, hitting this light, hollow, sheet metal wing. The building wins hands down! Alas, you can't see any destruction due to the wings.

If you want to actually "see" this happen, I posted a link from Purdue University that shows a video of EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I promise it will only take like 5 min. to watch it and you will see exactly what I'm talking about. Go to that page, click on the first report I think, and click "watch movie"

 

[Fort_Underground]

Well said LSU. But answer me this one question: Why in your opinon has the government not released the footage of the plane? Does everyone here think its still a matter of national security that we don't see the contents of those videos? I mean, we allready took over the country where Al Queda was headquarted, and we probably will never find Osama. So why not release the videos? What is the government hiding?

Also I would like to see a link that says the the some of the hijackers are alive and well, since Ive never heard about it.

 

[LSUTiger]

The confiscated videos are another one of those ideas that are sketchy to me, at best. I can't answer "why" the government doesn't realease them, but that whole idea doesn't have me running for the conspiracy theory either. I mean, there "are" videos of the crash, you've seen them. You know for a fact a commercial plane hit the pentagon, you know all those passengers/pilots on the alleged plane are dead, and you saw what happened to the WTC. There's just so much evidence pointing to one solution, it's hard for me to think that the government confiscating videos is the basis of some scheme to run one of our own planes into a government building. It just doesn't make feasible sense.