NO EVIDENCE OF GODS

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 22 February 2007 10:07
pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 17, 10:56?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> rbwinn wrote:
>> > On Feb 17, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> > > On 17 Feb 2007 04:32:59 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> > > <1171715579.252212.188...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> > > >On Feb 16, 10:09?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com>
>> > > >wrote:
>> > > >> rbwinn wrote:
>> > > >> > On Feb 13, 5:57?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> > > ...
>> > > >> > > How many more times will you repeat that lie.- Hide quoted
>> > > >> > > text -
>>
>> > > >> > You atheists all play the same game. ?? ?? ??f you want to
>> > > >> > claim the Bible does not exist go ahead and say it does not
>> > > >> > exist. Robert B. Winn
>>
>> > > >> Well Christian 'Nut cases' sure do- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > >Well, here is a verse from Isaiah to cheer you up, Bob.
>> > > >Isaiah 1:25 ??And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely
>> > > >purge thy dross, and take away all thy tin.
>>
>> > > Clearly Isaiah was talking to you.
>>
>> > I still have tin, Lunch.
>> > Isaiah 2:2 ??And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the
>> > mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the
>> > mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations
>> > shall flow unto it.
>> > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> Yes that is where the primitives thought their god was, just above
>> the clouds atop of the nearest mountain.
>>
>> One reason, of course, why the Moses myth was written, [with no
>> witnesses] about his so called ??meeting with his god. ??Moses, like
>> all prophets, was a charlatan; IOW 'a liar' [assuming of course that
>> Moses actually existed.]- Hide quoted text -
>>
> Well, why don't you just wait until after the resurrection and tell
> Moses your complaints in person?

I am sure Bob has great comfort in knowing that you believe he will be
in the same place as Moses and that Moses will devote a part of
eternity to carry on a conversation with him, just as I am comforted by
your believe I will end up in the same place as Matthew and that
Matthew will devote part of his eternity to carry on a conversation
with me.

Sorry that I forgot to mention all the other readers here who can take
great comfort in knowing that Robert believes they are going to heaven
to talk with the saints. He has promised such to so many. Did you
not, Robert? Otherwise how would any of us get to talk to Moses,
Matthew, John and Joshua? Will heaven and hell have an intercom
between them, or will we be using our cell phones?

> Robert B. Winn

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 22 February 2007 11:49
pm bob young perhaps from alaspectrum@netvigator.com wrote:

>
>
> rbwinn wrote:
>
>> On Feb 17, 10:56??

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 22 February 2007 10:53
pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 19, 8:18?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> rbwinn wrote:
>> > On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> > > rbwinn wrote:
>> > > > On Feb 14, 4:44?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> > > > > ...
>>
>> > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. ??Lincoln
>> > > > > >said on several occasions that he believed the Bible.
>>
>> > > > > Source with complete context please.
>>
>> > > > I can give you the original source. ??Talk to Abraham Lincoln
>> > > > after the resurrection. ??He can tell you in person.
>> > > > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> > > I am seriously thinking of <plonking> you for the third time -
>> > > what a wally- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. ??No need to get irrational.
>> > Isaiah 2:17 ??And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the
>> > haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be
>> > exalted in that day.
>> > ?? Robert B. Winn
>>
>> Nothing could be MORE irrational than quoting ad infinitum,
>> verses from an old book written by one primitive out of a gaggle of
>> primitives
>>
>> Grow up- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> How about this? Here is someone who thinks that his ancestors were
> monkeys telling me to grow up.

Why do you think you can tell us what Bob thinks? Is there some post
which Bob made in which he says he thinks his ancestors were monkeys?

> Robert B. Winn

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 22 February 2007 11:29
pm Free Lunch perhaps from lunch@nofreelunch.us wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2007 19:53:52 -0800, in alt.atheism
> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
> <1172202832.147991.191490@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com>:
>>On Feb 19, 8:18?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>> rbwinn wrote:
>>> > On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>> > > rbwinn wrote:
>>> > > > On Feb 14, 4:44?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>>> > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>>> > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>> > > > > ...
>>>
>>> > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. incoln
>>> > > > > >said on several occasions that he believed the Bible.
>>>
>>> > > > > Source with complete context please.
>>>
>>> > > > I can give you the original source. alk to Abraham Lincoln
>>> > > > after the resurrection. e can tell you in person.
>>> > > > Robert B. Winn
>>>
>>> > > I am seriously thinking of <plonking> you for the third time -
>>> > > what a wally- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> > Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. o need to get irrational.
>>> > Isaiah 2:17
> nd the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the
>>> > haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be
>>> > exalted in that day.
>>> > Robert B. Winn
>>>
>>> Nothing could be MORE irrational than quoting ad infinitum,
>>> verses from an old book written by one primitive out of a gaggle of
>>> primitives
>>>
>>> Grow up- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>How about this? Here is someone who thinks that his ancestors were
>>monkeys telling me to grow up.
>
> We do share our ancestry with the great apes, all other mammals and
> the rest of the organisms in the world. Only liars claim otherwise.

Yes, but Robert is wrong when he claims people who accept evolution
believe homo sapiens came from monkeys. He understands nothing about
the topic yet he is willing to arrogantly pontificate against it.
Anyone who accepts the theory of evolution as explaining the facts but
at the same time thinks humans came from monkeys draws from the same
well of ignorance and idiocy as Robert. Luckily, those of us who do
understand the ToE do not think that.

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 7:09 am
rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 22, 9:29?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> On 22 Feb 2007 19:53:52 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> <1172202832.147991.191...@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Feb 19, 8:18?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >> rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > > > On Feb 14, 4:44?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> >> > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> >> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> >> > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >> > > > > ...
>>
>> >> > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. ??incoln
>> >> > > > > >said on several occasions that he believed the Bible.
>>
>> >> > > > > Source with complete context please.
>>
>> >> > > > I can give you the original source. ??alk to Abraham Lincoln
>> >> > > > after the resurrection. ??e can tell you in person.
>> >> > > > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> >> > > I am seriously thinking of <plonking> you for the third time -
>> >> > > what a wally- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> > Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. ??o need to get irrational.
>> >> > Isaiah 2:17
>>
>> nd the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the
>>
>> >> > haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall
>> >> > be exalted in that day.
>> >> > ??Robert B. Winn
>>
>> >> Nothing could be MORE irrational than quoting ad infinitum,
>> >> verses from an old book written by one primitive out of a gaggle
>> >> of primitives
>>
>> >> Grow up- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >How about this? Here is someone who thinks that his ancestors were
>> >monkeys telling me to grow up.
>>
>> We do share our ancestry with the great apes, all other mammals and
>> the rest of the organisms in the world. Only liars claim otherwise.-
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Well, since you say that Jesus Christ is a liar, why don't you discuss
> your accusation with him when he returns to judge the earth?

Wow!!! You must have some unique and special bible. Where in it does
Joshua discuss the evolutionary tree of life. Please quote chapter and
verse. If he never did (and according to the many bibles I have here,
he never did, then he could not be called a liar because he never
discusses the topic.

I await your exact quotes of scripture where Joshua discusses the tree
of life, with bated breath.

> Robert B. Winn

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 7:16 am
rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 22, 9:44?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> rbwinn wrote:
>> > On Feb 19, 8:18?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> > > rbwinn wrote:
>> > > > On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > rbwinn wrote:
>> > > > > > On Feb 14, 4:44?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> > > > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> > > > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> > > > > > > ...
>>
>> > > > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell.
>> > > > > > > >??Lincoln said on several occasions that he believed the
>> > > > > > > >Bible.
>>
>> > > > > > > Source with complete context please.
>>
>> > > > > > I can give you the original source. ??Talk to Abraham
>> > > > > > Lincoln after the resurrection. ??He can tell you in
>> > > > > > person. Robert B. Winn
>>
>> > > > > I am seriously thinking of <plonking> you for the third time
>> > > > > - what a wally- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. ??No need to get irrational.
>> > > > Isaiah 2:17 ??And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and
>> > > > the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone
>> > > > shall be exalted in that day.
>> > > > ?? Robert B. Winn
>>
>> > > Nothing could be MORE irrational than quoting ad infinitum,
>> > > verses from an old book written by one primitive out of a gaggle
>> > > of primitives
>>
>> > > Grow up- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > How about this? Here is someone who thinks that his ancestors were
>> > monkeys telling me to grow up.
>> > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> Chimps have 98% of the same genes as homo sapiens
>>
>> whether you like it or not, that is where you came from- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>
> That is not where I come from. Humans have more than 90 percent the
> same molecules as water.
> Does that mean we are children of water?

That does not even make any sense. You've gone from genes to molecules.
That show a true ignorance of science. And furthermore you are flatly
wrong. Humans have 100% of a molecule of pure water, as it only
contains two elements.

Incidentally, we allegorically are children of water. Genesis says god
formed the earth from the vast void which was water, and it also says
god made man from that very dirt/earth by breathing his spirit into it,
hence in the broadest meaning of the term we are children of water.

> Robert B. Winn

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 2:18 am
Michael Gray perhaps from mikegray@newsguy.com wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2007 23:18:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> wrote:
> - Refer: <45DE7890.EB33D1FB@netvigator.com>
>>
>>
>>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>
>>> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>> news:bedkt25jc2k340fjstt9r0ftctvkun83ns@4ax.com...
>>> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>>> > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>>> > <45d8c8cc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for proving my point. So you disbelieve what I just
>>> >> said, as
>>> >>usual, and are now claiming that atheism is a belief system,
>>> >>instead of a
>>> >>disbelief system. Let's see you prove that. Either prove it, or
>>> >>admit your
>>> >>just lying for atheism again.
>>> >
>>> > You are the one who calls atheism a belief system. I call you on
>>> > your lie. Atheism is not a form of belief. Lack of belief is not a
>>> > system. You know that. You appear to like lying. Why is that?
>>> >
>>> Why is what? You proved no "lie". I agreed with you above, that
>>> atheism
>>> is not a belief system. It's however a DISbelief system, for you are
>>> forever listing all the things you don't believe and never get
>>> around to telling us anything about what you DO believe.
>>
>>I believe that a fair proportion of religionists demonstrate
>>constantly that they are liars and
>>charlatans. That's what I believe
>
> I do NOT believe that.
> Unless by "fair proprtion", you mean exactly 100%

How much fairer can you get? I don't think that it is quite 100% as I
know at least 2 people who are Christians and do not fit the bill.

>
> --

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 7:38 am
rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 22, 10:22?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> rbwinn wrote:
>> > On Feb 16, 7:10?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> > > On 16 Feb 2007 17:53:22 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> > > <1171677202.265303.67...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> > > >On Feb 16, 5:52?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>> > > >> On 16 Feb., 13:17, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:> On Feb
>> > > >> 13, 6:31?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>
>> > > >> > > On 13 Feb., 14:03, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > >> > > > On Feb 12, 9:21?pm, bob young
>> > > >> > > > <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > >> snip
>>
>> > > >> > > What we do not have is any evidence of any miracle.- Hide
>> > > >> > > quoted text -
>>
>> > > >> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > >> > Well, if you had been one of the people in Jerusalem at
>> > > >> > thattime, you might have seen it a little differently. ??t
>> > > >> > did not seem like a miracle to Sennacherrib after he arrived
>> > > >> > home in Ninevah safe and sound, but when it happened, he was
>> > > >> > not so sure. Robert B. Winn- Skjul tekst i anf?stegn -
>>
>> > > >> Sorry boobie but your fantasies about what happened or what
>> > > >> people thought back then are not evidence.
>>
>> > > >Well, why don't we go right to what Isaiah wrote, Thomas?
>> > > >Isaiah 1:20 ??But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured
>> > > >with the sword, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
>>
>> > > And you arrogantly think that you are the one to interpret it and
>> > > apply it here.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > I did not interpret anything. ??I just quoted the scripture the way
>> > it was written.
>> > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> you mean
>> 'how the last translator conceptualized the previous translator's
>> work, don't you?- Hide quoted text -
>>
> You do not know a lot about the Jews, do you? They prided themselves
> on not changing scripture.

There goes that arrogance again. Why do you pontificate upon that which
you know little to nothing? Do you know how may different versions of
the Hebrew bible there were? In each of those, some verses were
deleted, some verses were added and words were outright changed and
that doesn't even begin to address all the various misspellings and
scribal errors. Even the link I provided show that in the book of
Isaiah alone there were 40,000 differences between the Hebrew Great
Isaiah Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic Text. And ther
were even more among the other Hebrew texts of Isaiah found in the DDS.
And we haven't even begun to examine the Samaritan Hebrew bible. To
complicate matters further scholars know that there were at least three
different versions of the Greek Old Testament (only one of which
survives today).

But because you are ignorant of the Hebrew and Greek you cannot see that
for yourself and cannot follow the conversations of the Jewish scholar
who showed the differences letter by letter in the link which I
provided.

> They were not always successful, but they
> had no overriding motive to change meanings the way atheists of today
> have.


Of course they did. There was no one, single, unifying Jewish movement
throughout the whole of history. There were many Jewish philosophies
throughout history and Christianity developed from one of them. Each
had a motive for changing scripture.

But even more to the point, you are not discussing the Hebrew bible
because by your own admission you are not equipted to do that. Rather
you are discussing an interpretation and translation of the Hebrew and
Greek scriptures. And to make matters worse, the translation you use
and worship was developed from very, very late Hebrew and Greek
manuscripts including two which were only completed a decade before
that translation was made and the Hebrew version which was only 400
years old.

You have no ammunition for this discussion. Even more to your
discredit, you do not even have a gun to fire it from. And upon
further consideration -- not even the arms to use the gun. You are
handicapped in any discussion of biblical scholarship, and that comes
from your own admissions.

> Robert B. Winn

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Darrell Stec]

After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 7:13 am
rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 22, 9:44?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> rbwinn wrote:
>> > On Feb 15, 9:08?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> > > rbwinn wrote:
>> > > > On Feb 15, 6:46?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>> > > > > On 15 Feb., 13:22, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:> On Feb
>> > > > > 15, 2:17?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > On 15 Feb., 00:29, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > On Feb 13, 8:34?pm, bob young
>> > > > > > > > <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > snip
>>
>> > > > > > > > Well, Bob, does the Bible exist or not? ?You say
>> > > > > > > > whether it exists. Don't try to call me a liar just
>> > > > > > > > because I called your bluff.
>>
>> > > > > > > You are a liar. ?You said that I and others claimed the
>> > > > > > > Bible did not exist. ?Not only was that a lie, it was
>> > > > > > > incredibly silly. ?You called nobody's bluff; you just
>> > > > > > > told a silly lie.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > You are still claiming that the Bible does not exist. ?? If
>> > > > > > I ask you about Isaiah's account of the Assyrian invasion
>> > > > > > of Judea, you reply with an inane question about fictional
>> > > > > > characters. ??So, the conversation is over. ??You are
>> > > > > > claiming that the Bible does not exist.
>>
>> > > > > Little Bobby is such a pathetic twit, but we should be nice
>> > > > > to him; he does such good work for atheism.
>>
>> > > > Your personal attacks show everyone who you work for.
>> > > > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> > > These - wizards, satans, evil spirits, ??devils, lucifers,
>> > > ghouls, diabolous, Auld Hornies, Fiends, Old Nicks etc., ??do not
>> > > exist ...........any more than your god exists.
>>
>> > > They, along with your god, were all manufactured by fearful
>> > > humans long before you were borne Robert - get used to it- Hide
>> > > quoted text -
>>
>> > Well, the most common lie told by Satan is that the devil does not
>> > exist.
>> > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> Seen him have you? ??you really do need help- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Why would a person who has seen Satan need help? Jesus Christ did not
> need any help after he saw Satan.

Nor would most when they saw their uncle.

> Robert B. Winn

--
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Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
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We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

 

[Day Brown]

Inasmuch as none of the Greek philosophers who invented the rules of
logic that have been applied to this question were atheist, one has to
pause for thot, as they certainly did. By and large, atheism is
sophistry. If one thinks there is no god, then what is the motivation
for trying to refute the premise that there is? Why should you ****ing
care? You have no moral mandate to convert humanity.

To argue that religion risks your own welfare with WMD may be so, but
not all religion. The Buddhist monks who destroyed the moral high
ground of the LBJ administration in Vietnam took pains to see that no
body else (in stark contrast to the Jihadim or innumerable examples of
Christian zealots) would be harmed when they immolated themselves in
front of the TV cameras. Any atheist would be hard put to find any
risk to his welfare from Buddhists, Taoists, Confucians and several
other obscure religions.

No, the problem the atheist focuses on are the Levantine religions
based on various forms of scripture. If they could all agree on which
texts, or which interpretations of the holy word, that would be one
thing. But as David Hume pointed out, since they dont, how then can
you expect any of them to compromise what they say is divine word? The
result he saw was that they inevitably resort to the use of force, the
survivors assumed to be on "the side of god". I beg to differ; they
are on the side of the alpha males who have crafted a concept of the
divine that panders to their sensibilities, and justifies their
instinctive attempts to dominate others.

These other Oriental, originally central asian Aryan, religions dont
have idea of the divine as an alpha male tyrant, and dont have the
problem. What they relied on, rather than scripture, was meditation,
sacred sex, and sacred potions to alter the state of consciousness and
have a direct experience of the divine presence. You dont need a
pope, bishop, rabbi, or mullah, or any of the steep pyramidal power
structures these men create to see the divine this way.

 

[Michael Gray]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:05:01 -0500, Darrell Stec
<darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote:
- Refer: <548s4dF1vf5q5U6@mid.individual.net>
>After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 7:09 am
>rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote:
>
>> On Feb 22, 9:29?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>>> On 22 Feb 2007 19:53:52 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>>> <1172202832.147991.191...@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >On Feb 19, 8:18?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>> >> rbwinn wrote:
>>> >> > On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> > > rbwinn wrote:
>>> >> > > > On Feb 14, 4:44?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>>> >> > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
>>> >> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>>> >> > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>> >> > > > > ...
>>>
>>> >> > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. ??incoln
>>> >> > > > > >said on several occasions that he believed the Bible.
>>>
>>> >> > > > > Source with complete context please.
>>>
>>> >> > > > I can give you the original source. ??alk to Abraham Lincoln
>>> >> > > > after the resurrection. ??e can tell you in person.
>>> >> > > > Robert B. Winn
>>>
>>> >> > > I am seriously thinking of <plonking> you for the third time -
>>> >> > > what a wally- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> >> > Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. ??o need to get irrational.
>>> >> > Isaiah 2:17
>>>
>>> nd the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the
>>>
>>> >> > haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall
>>> >> > be exalted in that day.
>>> >> > ??Robert B. Winn
>>>
>>> >> Nothing could be MORE irrational than quoting ad infinitum,
>>> >> verses from an old book written by one primitive out of a gaggle
>>> >> of primitives
>>>
>>> >> Grow up- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> >How about this? Here is someone who thinks that his ancestors were
>>> >monkeys telling me to grow up.
>>>
>>> We do share our ancestry with the great apes, all other mammals and
>>> the rest of the organisms in the world. Only liars claim otherwise.-
>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Well, since you say that Jesus Christ is a liar, why don't you discuss
>> your accusation with him when he returns to judge the earth?
>
>Wow!!! You must have some unique and special bible. Where in it does
>Joshua discuss the evolutionary tree of life. Please quote chapter and
>verse. If he never did (and according to the many bibles I have here,
>he never did, then he could not be called a liar because he never
>discusses the topic.
>
>I await your exact quotes of scripture where Joshua discusses the tree
>of life, with bated breath.

He has a copy of "The Joshua Tree" by U2, and is getting horribly
confused.

--

 

[Michael Gray]

On 23 Feb 2007 04:54:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <45DEC75B.8B3E5B1D@netvigator.com>
>
>
>Michael Gray wrote:
>
>> On 22 Feb 2007 23:18:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
>> wrote:
>> - Refer: <45DE7890.EB33D1FB@netvigator.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >Pastor Frank wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>> >> news:bedkt25jc2k340fjstt9r0ftctvkun83ns@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> >> > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> >> > <45d8c8cc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks for proving my point. So you disbelieve what I just said, as
>> >> >>usual, and are now claiming that atheism is a belief system, instead of a
>> >> >>disbelief system. Let's see you prove that. Either prove it, or admit
>> >> >>your
>> >> >>just lying for atheism again.
>> >> >
>> >> > You are the one who calls atheism a belief system. I call you on your
>> >> > lie. Atheism is not a form of belief. Lack of belief is not a system.
>> >> > You know that. You appear to like lying. Why is that?
>> >> >
>> >> Why is what? You proved no "lie". I agreed with you above, that atheism
>> >> is not a belief system. It's however a DISbelief system, for you are forever
>> >> listing all the things you don't believe and never get around to telling us
>> >> anything about what you DO believe.
>> >
>> >I believe that a fair proportion of religionists demonstrate constantly that
>> >they are liars and
>> >charlatans. That's what I believe
>>
>> I do NOT believe that.
>> Unless by "fair proprtion", you mean exactly 100%
>
>One must allow for the ordinary person longing for security thinking they can find
>it with an imaginary god, reinforced by following what their parents and
>grandparents believed. These are not charlatans, the charlatans are the
>propagators that lie and deceive.

So, they do not lie when they claim that Jesus was born of a virgin?
Flew up into the sky after being tortured to death?
Came back down again and quietly chatted with a few people who never
existed, and then went back up into the sky, and will come back down
after 2,000 years?
That when a priest raves some mumbo jumbo over a biscuit and some
cheap vino, that it ACTUALLY turns into half-human flesh, and REAL
blood of ONE person?
Fot they quite simply MUST believe all this fraudulent crap to be
considered Christian.

Their very best defence against lying is that they are quite insane.
I'm judging that of the semi-sane christians, none of them are stupid
enough to actually fully believe that crock-o-****, at least not deep
down.

--

 

[Michael Gray]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:15:38 -0500, Darrell Stec
<darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote:
- Refer: <548soaF1vq660U2@mid.individual.net>
>After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 23 February 2007 2:18 am
>Michael Gray perhaps from mikegray@newsguy.com wrote:
>
>> On 22 Feb 2007 23:18:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
>> wrote:
>> - Refer: <45DE7890.EB33D1FB@netvigator.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>>> news:bedkt25jc2k340fjstt9r0ftctvkun83ns@4ax.com...
>>>> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>>>> > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>>>> > <45d8c8cc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks for proving my point. So you disbelieve what I just
>>>> >> said, as
>>>> >>usual, and are now claiming that atheism is a belief system,
>>>> >>instead of a
>>>> >>disbelief system. Let's see you prove that. Either prove it, or
>>>> >>admit your
>>>> >>just lying for atheism again.
>>>> >
>>>> > You are the one who calls atheism a belief system. I call you on
>>>> > your lie. Atheism is not a form of belief. Lack of belief is not a
>>>> > system. You know that. You appear to like lying. Why is that?
>>>> >
>>>> Why is what? You proved no "lie". I agreed with you above, that
>>>> atheism
>>>> is not a belief system. It's however a DISbelief system, for you are
>>>> forever listing all the things you don't believe and never get
>>>> around to telling us anything about what you DO believe.
>>>
>>>I believe that a fair proportion of religionists demonstrate
>>>constantly that they are liars and
>>>charlatans. That's what I believe
>>
>> I do NOT believe that.
>> Unless by "fair proprtion", you mean exactly 100%
>
>How much fairer can you get? I don't think that it is quite 100% as I
>know at least 2 people who are Christians and do not fit the bill.

Of all the self-labelled Christians that I know who do not fit that
bill, when pressed on the finer points of their church canon, admit
grudgingly that they are strictly NOT Christians, in the formal sense,
as they atively disbelieve one or more of the essential bits of dogma.

I would like to meet a Christian who:
1) is demonstrably sane, (this excludes idiots like R. Winn)
2) believes every one of the church rules, having reasoned them
through
3) Can demonstrate that they are not lying about believing any single
one of these dramatically self-contradictory tenets.

--

 

[Free Lunch]

On 23 Feb 2007 04:08:42 -0800, in alt.atheism
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
<1172232522.728606.101860@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>:
>On Feb 22, 9:28?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> On 22 Feb 2007 19:19:49 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> <1172200789.128447.246...@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>:

....

>> >Well, actually, it does. Paul stated that in the last days men would
>> >be turned to fables, being unable to abide sound doctrine.
>>
>> Since you teach things that have no evidence to back them, why would I
>> think your teachings are sound doctrine?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>It does not matter much what an atheist thinks. Since you have alread
>declared your opposition to God, there is really not much reason to
>even talk to you. I just do it to be polite.

If you would look back, you would see that I have never stated that I am
opposed to God. That is a claim that you invented. Why would you make
things up like this?

 

[Free Lunch]

On 23 Feb 2007 04:09:57 -0800, in alt.atheism
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
<1172232597.816482.29610@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
>On Feb 22, 9:29?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> On 22 Feb 2007 19:53:52 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> <1172202832.147991.191...@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Feb 19, 8:18?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >> rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >> > > rbwinn wrote:
>> >> > > > On Feb 14, 4:44?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> >> > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> >> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in
>> >> > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >> > > > > ...
>>
>> >> > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. )ncoln said on
>> >> > > > > >several occasions that he believed the Bible.
>>
>> >> > > > > Source with complete context please.
>>
>> >> > > > I can give you the original source. !lk to Abraham Lincoln after the
>> >> > > > resurrection. % can tell you in person.
>> >> > > > Robert B. Winn
>>
>> >> > > I am seriously thinking of <plonking> you for the third time - what a
>> >> > > wally- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> > Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. / need to get irrational.
>> >> > Isaiah 2:17
>>
>> nd the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the
>>
>> >> > haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be
>> >> > exalted in that day.
>> >> > obert B. Winn
>>
>> >> Nothing could be MORE irrational than quoting ad infinitum,
>> >> verses from an old book written by one primitive out of a gaggle of
>> >> primitives
>>
>> >> Grow up- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >How about this? Here is someone who thinks that his ancestors were
>> >monkeys telling me to grow up.
>>
>> We do share our ancestry with the great apes, all other mammals and the
>> rest of the organisms in the world. Only liars claim otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Well, since you say that Jesus Christ is a liar, why don't you discuss
>your accusation with him when he returns to judge the earth?

Could you please point out where I said that Jesus was a liar? If you
cannot, I will expect an apology from you.

 

[Free Lunch]

On 23 Feb 2007 04:19:41 -0800, in alt.atheism
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
<1172233181.392841.144580@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>:
>On Feb 22, 9:51?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:

....

>> OLD HAT.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>Small percentage? The majority of people today are pro-abortion.
>Robert B. Winn

Why do you insist on mischaracterizing what people support?

Would you like it better if I stated that you support fascism and that
you want to destroy our constitution? I am confident that I can gather
more evidence for my statement than you can for yours

(Hint: pro-choice is not pro-abortion any more than pro-freedom of
religion makes you a Satanist)

 

[Free Lunch]

On 22 Feb 2007 23:06:01 -0600, in alt.atheism
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in
<45DE75BE.81EF8CFF@netvigator.com>:
>
>
>Pastor Frank wrote:
>
>> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>> news:e2dkt2tov0701orpfmvmtnl208e7ocdi9u@4ax.com...
>> > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:53:25 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> > <45d9c68a$0$16269$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>> >>"Paul Ransom Erickson" <prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:u4qft2ppbprus69bal5qdcjtjptkp7inf6@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:51:58 GMT, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:35:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>> >>>>"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>> >>>><45d6f3c4$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>> >>>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>> >>>>>news:021at2dduc81elh421vfel0tr3he94oqc0@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:31:43 -0800, in alt.atheism
>> >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
>> >>>>>> <1171542703.680913.131700@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Well, Thomas, here we see the last refuge of the atheist, the
>> >>>>>>>personal
>> >>>>>>>attack. We were discussing the Bible here in alt.bible. Now
>> >>>>>>>everyone
>> >>>>>>>can see your purpose in intruding in our conversation. If you do not
>> >>>>>>>want to talk about the Bible, why don't you go live the happy life of
>> >>>>>>>an atheist?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm in alt.atheism watching you tell your lies. Why are you posting
>> >>>>>> your
>> >>>>>> lies in alt.atheism.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> Because a.a. is ABOUT atheism, not a refuge FOR atheists. Also,
>> >>>>> atheist
>> >>>>>doctrine demands, that what we consider the truth, atheists MUST call
>> >>>>>lies
>> >>>>>or face excommunication and confiscation of their number.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>As people have pointed out again and again, yet you, in your hubris
>> >>>>refuse to acknowledge, there is no such thing as atheist doctrine.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>It appears that you hate people.
>> >>>
>> >>> Indeed. He spends a lot of time on alt.atheism telling us how awful
>> >>> he thinks we are.
>> >>>
>> >> Non sequitur to what I wrote. My comments concerned atheism as a
>> >>philosophy of life, not atheists as persons. But then atheism requires
>> >>atheists to ALWAYS emphasis faults, errors, shortcomings, insufficiencies
>> >>etc. to the exclusion of affirming what is good, right, desirable, and
>> >>salutary.
>> >> That is what hell is all about, all negative and despairing and
>> >> nothing
>> >>positive and hopeful. And that is also why Christ came to bring us the
>> >>Good
>> >>News.
>> >
>> > As you know, atheism is not a philosophy of life.
>> > You choose to lie about it. Why is that?
>> > Is your god so pitifully weak that he needs your help? Does he fail if
>> > no one lies for him?
>> >
>> Our Christian "God is love" and there is nothing "pitiful" about love.
>> Nor does love "lie". If atheism is not a philosophy of life, then why are
>> you wasting your life arguing against our philosophy of life, unless you
>> think your philosophy of life is better?
>> You just got yourself all muddled again.
>
>You are the muddled one,
>'He' was supposed to have sent his only begotten son down to earth and then had
>him ascend up to a heaven somewhere [just above the clouds back then]
>
>'Love' alone can do that?
>
>GROAN
>
>[stand by for more deviation]

Haven't you ever heard of a 'love child'?

 

[Free Lunch]

On 23 Feb 2007 04:21:33 -0800, in alt.atheism
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in
<1172233293.851121.149140@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>:
>On Feb 22, 9:52?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> "thomas p." wrote:
>> > On 15 Feb., 00:54, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>> > > On Feb 13, 11:48?pm, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>> > snip
>>
>> > > > > I offered to send you a copy of the Bible. ?You have consistently
>> > > > > maintained that the Bible does not exist.
>>
>> > > > Poor little Bobby thinks that repeating inane lies accomplishes
>> > > > something besides making him look like a fool.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > Well, let's get right to it. n what way do you acknowedge that the
>> > > Bible exists?
ob has a list that he keeps posting. oes the Bible
>> > > exist the same way something on Bob's list exists?
>>
>> > And the twit continues to make a fool of himself.
>>
>> The fact that he exists confirms it- Hide quoted text -
>>
>Ask a question an atheist does not want to answer, and he will call
>you a fool.

You are a fool. You are the one who foolishly claims that there are
atheists who deny that the Bible exists. You are a tremendous fool.
--

"Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel
to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy
Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should
take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in
which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh
it to scorn." -- Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis

 

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:48:24 +1030, in alt.atheism
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in
<p85tt21v7s8ma863a82duja9b2vgas289s@4ax.com>:
>On 22 Feb 2007 23:18:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
>wrote:
> - Refer: <45DE7890.EB33D1FB@netvigator.com>
>>
>>
>>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>
>>> "Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
>>> news:bedkt25jc2k340fjstt9r0ftctvkun83ns@4ax.com...
>>> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:48 +0800, in alt.atheism
>>> > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
>>> > <45d8c8cc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for proving my point. So you disbelieve what I just said, as
>>> >>usual, and are now claiming that atheism is a belief system, instead of a
>>> >>disbelief system. Let's see you prove that. Either prove it, or admit
>>> >>your
>>> >>just lying for atheism again.
>>> >
>>> > You are the one who calls atheism a belief system. I call you on your
>>> > lie. Atheism is not a form of belief. Lack of belief is not a system.
>>> > You know that. You appear to like lying. Why is that?
>>> >
>>> Why is what? You proved no "lie". I agreed with you above, that atheism
>>> is not a belief system. It's however a DISbelief system, for you are forever
>>> listing all the things you don't believe and never get around to telling us
>>> anything about what you DO believe.
>>
>>I believe that a fair proportion of religionists demonstrate constantly that
>>they are liars and
>>charlatans. That's what I believe
>
>I do NOT believe that.
>Unless by "fair proprtion", you mean exactly 100%

I think you are being far too hard on religionists. Some of them, Albert
Schweitzer for example, were wonderful people who have done great things
for the world (whether or not they were religious).

 

[rbwinn]

On Feb 23, 6:40�am, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 7:10 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:
>