Religious Martyrs

[Gabriel]

On 27 Nov 2007 22:17:02 -0600, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:

>
>
>Gabriel wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:51:36 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1jlgk3tif8qbakg1bihcuih03rsnkgag36@4ax.com...
>> >> On 23 Nov 2007 22:02:02 -0600, bob young
>> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Gabriel wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:01:42 -0500, "Ghamph"
>> >>>> <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >If a God existed, he wouldn't allow this, unless he is a cold hearted
>> >>>> >sadistic freak.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> No, he allows us to choose how wicked or good we're going to be.
>> >>>> If we're going to follow Him or reject Him.
>> >>>
>> >>>Ha Ha we could do that just as well all on our own without any god, as
>> >>>indeed does
>> >>>more than three quarters of humanity
>> >>
>> >> What's that: choose who wicked or good we're going to be?
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Those who reject Him
>> >>>> clearly show themselves to be murderers of innocent babies.
>> >>>
>> >>>Oh dear - how sick.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, sick indeed. People murder their babies the vast majority of
>> >> the time for no good reason other than that of convenience.
>> >
>> >Don't be a spastic. No one has ever had an abortion just for "convenience".
>>
>> No one? You sure? Look more closely at the reasons given on that
>> website. You snipped the most popular ones given by that study,
>> and here they are again:
>>
>> - Don't want the baby right now. So they murder him. It's a shame
>> their baby didn't come at a convenient time.
>> - Don't think we can afford her. So they murder her. How
>> inconvenient they don't think they can afford her. So they murder
>> her.
>> - Their relationship's not going well, so they murder him. How
>> inconvenient to have a baby when the relationship's not going as
>> well as they would like. So they murder her.
>> - It will interfere with their education or job, so they murder
>> her. How inconvenient that education would have to take a back
>> seat to the life of an innocent child. Hey, my education is more
>> important, they say, and they murder her.
>>
>> It is quite dishonest of you to claim these babies are never
>> murdered out of convenience, when the vast majority of baby boys
>> and baby girls are murdered for exactly that reason!
>>
>> >And abortion of a foetus is not equal to "murder" of "babies".
>>
>> Does admitting it's a baby make you feel uncomfortable? It
>> should! Does calling it a fetus make you feel ok to murder him or
>> her? That's amazing! You're yet another person that rationalizes
>> away the murder of innocent babies. How tragic that you think
>> it's ok to do so. That's scary.
>>
>> Some think it sounds bad what God does to us sinners. But when
>> you continue to witness first hand out wicked and murderous we
>> can be, the fact is every one of us deserves it.
>>
>> Take care. I hope you one day you at least realize it's not a
>> good thing to murder babies, whether you believe in God or not.
>
>Legally abortion os not classified as murdering babies, As you full well know.

So that's how easily you're going to justify murdering your own
baby girl or boy? Because it's not classified as murder, so that
makes it ok? If they didn't classify it as murder if you did it
before he or she was two, would you still do it? Why do you allow
yourself to use someone else's classification to make it ok to
murder an innocent baby?

>
>The matter of abortion has nothing to do with gods. It relates entirely to the
>mind of each particular mother and how she reacts to a situation. no gods
>involves as they do not alter the mother's decision.

For someone that truly believes and follows God, they will not
have the abortion. That's how it relates. The only ones that do
have an abortion are clearly people that have no love of God in
their heart, and instead are more concerned with inconveniencing
their job, their lifestyle, their relationship. To avoid this
inconvenience, their lack of a relationship with God allows such
a pitiful justification to murder an innocent baby. Oh it has
everything to do with God - without God it's clear our hearts are
too often evil enough to so easily justify murdering an innocent
baby in the name of convenience.

>
>You are 'Using' abortion as a prosetalysing tool, which is ungracious.

Sorry it's inconvenient to remind you that you're murdering
babies and so easily justifying it. If the evil of that behavior
doesn't sway you, imagine you are the baby that instead of
being able to live the rest of your life was instead murdered by
your parents because it would have been too inconvenient to deal
with you at the time.

You are justifying using murder as a tool for avoiding the
inconvenience of a baby boy or girl, and that is infinitely more
than just ungracious.

May God save us from ourselves.

>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Your distortion and twisting of information shows how much of a wild-eyed
>> >cultist you really are.
>> >
>> >But when it comes to your cruel and callous Bible God, well then its
>> >perfectly alright to torture and kill children and adults.
>> >Is a foetus worth more than a fully born child?

 

[Gabriel]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:39:14 +1100, "Andrew W"
<removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:

>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:tdfpk3phb98nvigh7ksi2ei2iokoq462dq@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:51:36 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1jlgk3tif8qbakg1bihcuih03rsnkgag36@4ax.com...
>>>> On 23 Nov 2007 22:02:02 -0600, bob young
>>>> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Those who reject Him
>>>>>> clearly show themselves to be murderers of innocent babies.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh dear - how sick.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, sick indeed. People murder their babies the vast majority of
>>>> the time for no good reason other than that of convenience.
>>>
>>>Don't be a spastic. No one has ever had an abortion just for
>>>"convenience".
>>
>> No one? You sure? Look more closely at the reasons given on that
>> website. You snipped the most popular ones given by that study,
>> and here they are again:
>>
>> - Don't want the baby right now. So they murder him. It's a shame
>> their baby didn't come at a convenient time.
>> - Don't think we can afford her. So they murder her. How
>> inconvenient they don't think they can afford her. So they murder
>> her.
>> - Their relationship's not going well, so they murder him. How
>> inconvenient to have a baby when the relationship's not going as
>> well as they would like. So they murder her.
>> - It will interfere with their education or job, so they murder
>> her. How inconvenient that education would have to take a back
>> seat to the life of an innocent child. Hey, my education is more
>> important, they say, and they murder her.
>>
>> It is quite dishonest of you to claim these babies are never
>> murdered out of convenience, when the vast majority of baby boys
>> and baby girls are murdered for exactly that reason!
>>
>>>And abortion of a foetus is not equal to "murder" of "babies".
>>
>> Does admitting it's a baby make you feel uncomfortable? It
>> should! Does calling it a fetus make you feel ok to murder him or
>> her? That's amazing! You're yet another person that rationalizes
>> away the murder of innocent babies. How tragic that you think
>> it's ok to do so. That's scary.
>>
>> Some think it sounds bad what God does to us sinners. But when
>> you continue to witness first hand out wicked and murderous we
>> can be, the fact is every one of us deserves it.
>>
>> Take care. I hope you one day you at least realize it's not a
>> good thing to murder babies, whether you believe in God or not.
>
>I noticed that you prominently added your own emotionally charged comments.

Murder, let alone of innocent babies, should be an emotionless
thing?

>The "murder" accusation is your emotional view and others of your kind.

My kind? You mean there's only a certain kind that believes it's
wrong to murder? Let alone murder innocent babies? I'd be ashamed
to not be one of that kind! To call myself a murder of innocent
babies. To rationalize murdering them and acting like it's a
non-emotional thing.

>Lets look at it again with a wider and more mature perspective.

Why do you want to claim murdering babies is a more mature
perspective?

>
>25.5% Want to postpone childbearing ------ the child will suffer if the
>parents-to-be are not yet ready and skilled enough to properly raise a
>child.

"Sorry Julia. But I don't think I'm ready for you. Sure I'm old
enough, but I don't think I'll do a proper job. So I'll just
murder you instead of learning how to raise you properly like
everyone else does."

"Sorry Mike. We didn't want to have a child until we hit 28 so we
can do our thing first. So we're just going to murder you instead
and wait for our next baby."

>21.3% Cannot afford a baby ------ the child will suffer if there is not
>enough money for food, provisions and education for the child.

"Sorry Billy. I don't think I can afford you. I'd have to cut
back on my current lifestyle and that would be too inconvenient.
So I'll just murder you instead."

>14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy ------
>children suffer the most when relationships/marriages break down.

"Sorry Cindy. Rather than have you deal with the temporary
emotional pain of a bad relationship, I'll just murder you
instead. Yes, I know many of the strongest people with the
strongest character in life come from adversity in childhood, but
I'd rather spare you that adversity and murder you instead. If
you could think and talk, I'm sure you'd tell us that's what you
want us to do, to murder you, rather than being given your own
chance to live a life."

>12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy ------ the child
>will suffer if the parents-to-be are not yet ready and skilled enough to
>properly raise a child.

Sorry but unless the parents are around 14 or younger, it's
really "Sorry, Brittany, I think I'm too young to have kids - I
have my whole life ahead of me and want kids later, so I'm going
to murder you instead."

>10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job ------ the child will
>suffer if the parents-to-be are not educated enough or don't have steady
>income.

"Sorry Heather, but my education or my job is more important than
you are. You'd interrupt my education or my job, so I'm just
going to murder you instead."

>7.9% Want no (more) children ------ the child will suffer if the household
>is already stressed to its limits.

"Sorry Jeff, we didn't want any more babies, so we're just going
to murder you instead of giving you up for adoption. Yes, I know
a ton of people are on waiting lists of adopting babies and you'd
easily find a home that would love you because they are unable to
conceive, but I'm going to murder you instead."

>3.3% Risk to fetal health ------ the child could be born deformed in which
>case it will suffer horribly all its life.

"Sorry Kate. Rather than risk that you might have physical
problems, I'm just going to murder you instead. After all,
everyone knows every single handicapped person is doing nothing
more than suffering horribly and living a useless existence."

>2.8% Risk to maternal health ------ the child will suffer if the mother is
>too sick to feed/raise child.

"Sorry Jim. Rather than give you up for adoption if I end up
being too sick to feed and raise you, I will murder you instead."

>2.1% Other
>
>These sufferings last for decades or lifetimes.

Many of the people with the strongest character came from adverse
backgrounds. Many dysfunctional adults come from backgrounds
where they were given every advantage. I don't agree with you
trying to say that "someone might suffer in their childhood to
some degree" makes it ok to murder them as a baby.

>Suffering during an abortion lasts only 5-10 minutes.

Not so. You murdered the baby - you just denied that baby a
lifetime. For that people go to jail for life.

>Now I'm not saying I support abortion, I just see the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is how human beings have done such a scary job
of being able to justify murdering a baby for the sake of mostly
convenience reasons.

>If an unexpected and unwanted new addition comes then options have to be
>looked at without getting all emotional and googly eyed.

Murdering a baby is not something that should affect your
emotions?

>The other thing is that this world is already badly over populated.

"Sorry Elise, but I think there are too many people in the world,
so I'm just going to murder you instead." It doesn't work. That's
coldhearted murder.

>And the Bible God already places humans at a very low value and throws them
>on the fire like its spring cleaning time

If you want to start a discussion about God: we are the ones that
throw ourselves on the fire by rejecting Christ's sacrifice on
the cross for us to save us from our sins. Each and every one of
us can easily have a blessed eternity in heaven with God if we
turn away and repent from being murderers (of innocent babies no
less), adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves and so on, and
instead trust on Christ alone to save us from the wages of our
sins. Many don't turn away from this wickedness, and reject that
free gift. So really we do it to ourselves. And we continue to
rationalize the murder of innocent babies as huge evidence of our
wicked, evil ways.

And you can clearly see from simply the one solitary topic of
abortion that human beings are quite evil at heart to so easily
rationalize murdering innocent babies in the name of mostly
convenience! We deserve no less than death ourselves for such
wickedness. But Christ still loves us and offers to save us from
our wickedness! We have our lifetime to -choose- to accept this
saving grace, or to -choose- to be cast into hell to pay the
wages of our sins and wickedness ourselves.

> so why are you so upset about what
>we humans do when we're stuck between a rock and a hard place?
>Its all about emotions.

Actually it's more simply all about deciding you're not going to
be the murderer of innocent babies, for the sake of convenience
no less.

 

[Andrew W]

"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m0tuk3t03ohaq2cfcrgjklnei427mbkb5m@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:39:14 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:tdfpk3phb98nvigh7ksi2ei2iokoq462dq@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:51:36 +1100, "Andrew W"
>>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1jlgk3tif8qbakg1bihcuih03rsnkgag36@4ax.com...
>>>>> On 23 Nov 2007 22:02:02 -0600, bob young
>>>>> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those who reject Him
>>>>>>> clearly show themselves to be murderers of innocent babies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh dear - how sick.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, sick indeed. People murder their babies the vast majority of
>>>>> the time for no good reason other than that of convenience.
>>>>
>>>>Don't be a spastic. No one has ever had an abortion just for
>>>>"convenience".
>>>
>>> No one? You sure? Look more closely at the reasons given on that
>>> website. You snipped the most popular ones given by that study,
>>> and here they are again:
>>>
>>> - Don't want the baby right now. So they murder him. It's a shame
>>> their baby didn't come at a convenient time.
>>> - Don't think we can afford her. So they murder her. How
>>> inconvenient they don't think they can afford her. So they murder
>>> her.
>>> - Their relationship's not going well, so they murder him. How
>>> inconvenient to have a baby when the relationship's not going as
>>> well as they would like. So they murder her.
>>> - It will interfere with their education or job, so they murder
>>> her. How inconvenient that education would have to take a back
>>> seat to the life of an innocent child. Hey, my education is more
>>> important, they say, and they murder her.
>>>
>>> It is quite dishonest of you to claim these babies are never
>>> murdered out of convenience, when the vast majority of baby boys
>>> and baby girls are murdered for exactly that reason!
>>>
>>>>And abortion of a foetus is not equal to "murder" of "babies".
>>>
>>> Does admitting it's a baby make you feel uncomfortable? It
>>> should! Does calling it a fetus make you feel ok to murder him or
>>> her? That's amazing! You're yet another person that rationalizes
>>> away the murder of innocent babies. How tragic that you think
>>> it's ok to do so. That's scary.
>>>
>>> Some think it sounds bad what God does to us sinners. But when
>>> you continue to witness first hand out wicked and murderous we
>>> can be, the fact is every one of us deserves it.
>>>
>>> Take care. I hope you one day you at least realize it's not a
>>> good thing to murder babies, whether you believe in God or not.
>>
>>I noticed that you prominently added your own emotionally charged
>>comments.
>
> Murder, let alone of innocent babies, should be an emotionless
> thing?
>
>>The "murder" accusation is your emotional view and others of your kind.
>
> My kind? You mean there's only a certain kind that believes it's
> wrong to murder? Let alone murder innocent babies? I'd be ashamed
> to not be one of that kind! To call myself a murder of innocent
> babies. To rationalize murdering them and acting like it's a
> non-emotional thing.
>
>>Lets look at it again with a wider and more mature perspective.
>
> Why do you want to claim murdering babies is a more mature
> perspective?
>
>>
>>25.5% Want to postpone childbearing ------ the child will suffer if the
>>parents-to-be are not yet ready and skilled enough to properly raise a
>>child.
>
> "Sorry Julia. But I don't think I'm ready for you. Sure I'm old
> enough, but I don't think I'll do a proper job. So I'll just
> murder you instead of learning how to raise you properly like
> everyone else does."
>
> "Sorry Mike. We didn't want to have a child until we hit 28 so we
> can do our thing first. So we're just going to murder you instead
> and wait for our next baby."
>
>>21.3% Cannot afford a baby ------ the child will suffer if there is not
>>enough money for food, provisions and education for the child.
>
> "Sorry Billy. I don't think I can afford you. I'd have to cut
> back on my current lifestyle and that would be too inconvenient.
> So I'll just murder you instead."
>
>>14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy ------
>>children suffer the most when relationships/marriages break down.
>
> "Sorry Cindy. Rather than have you deal with the temporary
> emotional pain of a bad relationship, I'll just murder you
> instead. Yes, I know many of the strongest people with the
> strongest character in life come from adversity in childhood, but
> I'd rather spare you that adversity and murder you instead. If
> you could think and talk, I'm sure you'd tell us that's what you
> want us to do, to murder you, rather than being given your own
> chance to live a life."
>
>>12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy ------ the
>>child
>>will suffer if the parents-to-be are not yet ready and skilled enough to
>>properly raise a child.
>
> Sorry but unless the parents are around 14 or younger, it's
> really "Sorry, Brittany, I think I'm too young to have kids - I
> have my whole life ahead of me and want kids later, so I'm going
> to murder you instead."
>
>>10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job ------ the child will
>>suffer if the parents-to-be are not educated enough or don't have steady
>>income.
>
> "Sorry Heather, but my education or my job is more important than
> you are. You'd interrupt my education or my job, so I'm just
> going to murder you instead."
>
>>7.9% Want no (more) children ------ the child will suffer if the
>>household
>>is already stressed to its limits.
>
> "Sorry Jeff, we didn't want any more babies, so we're just going
> to murder you instead of giving you up for adoption. Yes, I know
> a ton of people are on waiting lists of adopting babies and you'd
> easily find a home that would love you because they are unable to
> conceive, but I'm going to murder you instead."
>
>>3.3% Risk to fetal health ------ the child could be born deformed in
>>which
>>case it will suffer horribly all its life.
>
> "Sorry Kate. Rather than risk that you might have physical
> problems, I'm just going to murder you instead. After all,
> everyone knows every single handicapped person is doing nothing
> more than suffering horribly and living a useless existence."
>
>>2.8% Risk to maternal health ------ the child will suffer if the mother
>>is
>>too sick to feed/raise child.
>
> "Sorry Jim. Rather than give you up for adoption if I end up
> being too sick to feed and raise you, I will murder you instead."
>
>>2.1% Other
>>
>>These sufferings last for decades or lifetimes.
>
> Many of the people with the strongest character came from adverse
> backgrounds. Many dysfunctional adults come from backgrounds
> where they were given every advantage. I don't agree with you
> trying to say that "someone might suffer in their childhood to
> some degree" makes it ok to murder them as a baby.
>
>>Suffering during an abortion lasts only 5-10 minutes.
>
> Not so. You murdered the baby - you just denied that baby a
> lifetime. For that people go to jail for life.
>
>>Now I'm not saying I support abortion, I just see the bigger picture.
>
> The bigger picture is how human beings have done such a scary job
> of being able to justify murdering a baby for the sake of mostly
> convenience reasons.
>
>>If an unexpected and unwanted new addition comes then options have to be
>>looked at without getting all emotional and googly eyed.
>
> Murdering a baby is not something that should affect your
> emotions?
>
>>The other thing is that this world is already badly over populated.
>
> "Sorry Elise, but I think there are too many people in the world,
> so I'm just going to murder you instead." It doesn't work. That's
> coldhearted murder.
>
>>And the Bible God already places humans at a very low value and throws
>>them
>>on the fire like its spring cleaning time
>
> If you want to start a discussion about God: we are the ones that
> throw ourselves on the fire by rejecting Christ's sacrifice on
> the cross for us to save us from our sins. Each and every one of
> us can easily have a blessed eternity in heaven with God if we
> turn away and repent from being murderers (of innocent babies no
> less), adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves and so on, and
> instead trust on Christ alone to save us from the wages of our
> sins. Many don't turn away from this wickedness, and reject that
> free gift. So really we do it to ourselves. And we continue to
> rationalize the murder of innocent babies as huge evidence of our
> wicked, evil ways.
>
> And you can clearly see from simply the one solitary topic of
> abortion that human beings are quite evil at heart to so easily
> rationalize murdering innocent babies in the name of mostly
> convenience! We deserve no less than death ourselves for such
> wickedness. But Christ still loves us and offers to save us from
> our wickedness! We have our lifetime to -choose- to accept this
> saving grace, or to -choose- to be cast into hell to pay the
> wages of our sins and wickedness ourselves.
>
>> so why are you so upset about what
>>we humans do when we're stuck between a rock and a hard place?
>>Its all about emotions.
>
> Actually it's more simply all about deciding you're not going to
> be the murderer of innocent babies, for the sake of convenience
> no less.

I know what the problem is here. For some reason you don't know the
difference between a foetus and a fully developed and born baby. And you
make names foetuses as though they're fully developed people who already
have a life in the world.
Where were you educated? Let me guess. A seminary. No, a sect hostel.
If your God kills so many humans including babies then why do you make such
a fuss about it?
Its only a physical body at the moulding stage. A temporary vehicle for this
world. The soul is the real person.
And how do you know God doesn't plan for a certain number of foetuses to be
aborted to maintain control of the population?
If a soul can't take one body then it simply waits for another to come
along.
How do you know God isn't telling those people to abort. Animals sometimes
reject their young as well when they sense something's not right.. You don't
know what God's doing. You're trying to second guess him.
What's your problem?
Why are you so obsessed with pre-developed material bodies? They're so easy
to make.


--
Andrew W.

"You must unlearn what you have learned" ~ Yoda

Channelled lessons about ET's, ascended masters like Jesus Christ, spirit
guides, earth changes.
http://www.spiritnexus.com/audio/channeling/index.htm

The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm

Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner

 

[bob young]

Gabriel wrote:

> On 27 Nov 2007 22:04:01 -0600, bob young
> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Gabriel wrote:
> >
> >> On 24 Nov 2007 23:25:01 -0600, bob young
> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Gabriel wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 23 Nov 2007 22:02:02 -0600, bob young
> >> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Gabriel wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:01:42 -0500, "Ghamph"
> >> >> >> <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >If a God existed, he wouldn't allow this, unless he is a cold hearted
> >> >> >> >sadistic freak.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> No, he allows us to choose how wicked or good we're going to be.
> >> >> >> If we're going to follow Him or reject Him.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Ha Ha we could do that just as well all on our own without any god, as indeed does
> >> >> >more than three quarters of humanity
> >> >>
> >> >> What's that: choose who wicked or good we're going to be?
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Those who reject Him
> >> >> >> clearly show themselves to be murderers of innocent babies.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Oh dear - how sick.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, sick indeed. People murder their babies the vast majority of
> >> >> the time for no good reason other than that of convenience.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Talking of babies, ever seen a photo of one of those grossly
> >> >> >deformed fetus [human]. Maybe not but they are horrible to see, so horrible the
> >> >> >parents dont get to see it either before it is cremated.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Are these gross fetus one of 'the wonders of the Lord? Your loving god did that?
> >> >>
> >> >> When Adam and Even sinned, death entered the world.
> >> >
> >> >I called you sick before and regrettably i have to repeat it
> >> >
> >> >Sicko - that is a stupid myth from about a thousand years ago
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Romans 5:12 KJVR Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the
> >> >> world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for
> >> >> that all have sinned:
> >> >>
> >> >> We are living in a cursed, corrupted world. Believers and
> >> >> non-believers alike are subject to its corrupted effects.
> >> >
> >> >ever since man could use a basic language we have been in that condition. the
> >> >imagnoary gods came later
> >> >
> >> >> But for
> >> >> those of us who show that we don't deserve the same fate as Adam,
> >> >> can do so by a show of righteousness through faith in Christ our
> >> >> Lord.
> >> >>
> >> >> Romans 10:4 KJVR For Christ is the end of the law for
> >> >> righteousness to every one that believeth.
> >> >>
> >> >> Romans 10:9-11 KJVR That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth
> >> >> the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath
> >> >> raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the
> >> >> heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth
> >> >> confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture saith,
> >> >> Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Of couse not, 'He' does not exist, but the random effects of the evolutionary
> >> >> >process going terribly wrong does?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Statistics
> >> >> >> In 2003 alone, in the United States alone, 854,000 babies were
> >> >> >> murdered by those who reject God. Extend this world-wide, and you
> >> >> >> have millions of babies murdered every year.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I know of nothing in the bible condemning abortion. Care to oblige?
> >> >>
> >> >> Certainly. Abortion is murder. Do you know of anything in the
> >> >> Bible that condemns murder?
> >> >
> >> >i am asking about abortion and there is nothing.
> >>
> >> See what I mean? Right there in the span of one post you
> >> rationalized away the murder of innocent babies, clearly acting
> >> like an abortion is not murder. Unbelievable.
> >
> >Abortion is a difficult issue,
>
> It's not difficult for those who realize murdering an innocent
> baby, stopping a beating heart of a living human being, for a
> reason other than keeping yourself from dying because of it, is
> evil no matter what his or her age. It's only a difficult issue
> for those who are capable of rationalizing murder as being ok if
> it prevents that baby from inconveniencing their job, their
> relationship, their lifestyle. Translation: people who reject God
> have a hard time stopping themselves from murdering a baby for
> selfish reasons, which is what makes it a "difficult issue".

How pleased you must be that abortion exists
so it can be used as a marketing tool
for your god that doesn't.

>
> >even newly borne animals are on occasions killed by their
> >mothers for some unexplained reason.
>
> So your method of rationalizing it is "look - animals do it! Must
> be ok for us too!" I can see why you think the issue is so
> difficult for you. Listen to yourself: you're saying it's a
> difficult thing to get yourself to stop from murdering an
> innocent baby. You're pointing out to how animals do it to as
> part of the reason why. Thank you for proving my point. Man is
> quite wicked, and those who truly follow God would not be so evil
> as to find it "so difficult" to keep from murdering their own
> baby boy or girl.

See above

>
>
> >The subject will be discussed forever, but it has
> >nothing to do with gods, since were there a god which created us 'in it's image' it would
> >hardly allow it's creation to destroy 'His' work, would 'He'?
> >
> >Or is that too logical for you to accept?

Obviousdy it ws too logical..........

>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >do you people EVER get tired of all your contortions?
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> And how fortunate we who live are that our parents didn't murder
> >> >> us. How unfortunate for millions human beings every year who get
> >> >> murdered by their parents.
> >
> >I do believe in most societies such an action is not decreed as murder. This only
> >applies when someone wishes t make a religious point about a terribly difficult subject
> >
> >Around 1950 the chinese government made a decree called the One Child Family. as you
> >know that country already has a huge population [1.3 billion] and recently they used a
> >computer to estimate how many people they would need to feed had this decree not been
> >enacted, the figure was in the region of 800 million.
> >
> >As i said - a difficult subject. If we grow our population to the level where we start
> >starving to death the world over will your god suddenly put in an appearance and bail us
> >out? I don't think so - how many lives were lost in the Indian floods last week, over
> >five thousand the tally is today. Were all these unfortunates sinners?

thank you for ignoring the last part of my post, it obviously had you stumped.

>
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Why do they do this? Here are the most popular reasons.
> >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Reasons_for_abortions
> >> >> >> - Don't want the baby right now. So they murder him.
> >> >> >> - Don't think we can afford her. So they murder her.
> >> >> >> - Their relationship's not going well, so they murder him.
> >> >> >> - It will interfere with their education or job, so they murder
> >> >> >> her.
> >> >> >> - They don't want another baby. So they murder him.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> People who follow God would avoid abortions except in perhaps
> >> >> >> life-threatening situations. Those who reject God murder and
> >> >> >> continue to murder innocent babies by the millions every single
> >> >> >> year.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It's human beings that are cold hearted. We can choose to repent
> >> >> >> from being murderers, adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves
> >> >> >> and whatever else, and turn to God to save us from our
> >> >> >> wickedness, or we can continue on being just as desperately
> >> >> >> wicked murderers of innocent babies, adulterers, fornicators,
> >> >> >> liars and thieves and pay the wages for our sins.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If God were vengeful, He would reject all of us even though we
> >> >> >> repent and beg for His mercy. He doesn't reject us.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 2 Peter 3:9 KJVR The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
> >> >> >> as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not
> >> >> >> willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
> >> >> >> repentance.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> He takes any of us who truly repent and ask for forgiveness and
> >> >> >> mercy. Praise God!

 

[Gabriel]

On 29 Nov 2007 23:45:02 -0600, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:

>
>
>Gabriel wrote:
>
>> On 27 Nov 2007 22:04:01 -0600, bob young
>> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Gabriel wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 24 Nov 2007 23:25:01 -0600, bob young
>> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Gabriel wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 23 Nov 2007 22:02:02 -0600, bob young
>> >> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Gabriel wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:01:42 -0500, "Ghamph"
>> >> >> >> <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >If a God existed, he wouldn't allow this, unless he is a cold hearted
>> >> >> >> >sadistic freak.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> No, he allows us to choose how wicked or good we're going to be.
>> >> >> >> If we're going to follow Him or reject Him.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Ha Ha we could do that just as well all on our own without any god, as indeed does
>> >> >> >more than three quarters of humanity
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What's that: choose who wicked or good we're going to be?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Those who reject Him
>> >> >> >> clearly show themselves to be murderers of innocent babies.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Oh dear - how sick.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, sick indeed. People murder their babies the vast majority of
>> >> >> the time for no good reason other than that of convenience.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Talking of babies, ever seen a photo of one of those grossly
>> >> >> >deformed fetus [human]. Maybe not but they are horrible to see, so horrible the
>> >> >> >parents dont get to see it either before it is cremated.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Are these gross fetus one of 'the wonders of the Lord? Your loving god did that?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When Adam and Even sinned, death entered the world.
>> >> >
>> >> >I called you sick before and regrettably i have to repeat it
>> >> >
>> >> >Sicko - that is a stupid myth from about a thousand years ago
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Romans 5:12 KJVR Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the
>> >> >> world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for
>> >> >> that all have sinned:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We are living in a cursed, corrupted world. Believers and
>> >> >> non-believers alike are subject to its corrupted effects.
>> >> >
>> >> >ever since man could use a basic language we have been in that condition. the
>> >> >imagnoary gods came later
>> >> >
>> >> >> But for
>> >> >> those of us who show that we don't deserve the same fate as Adam,
>> >> >> can do so by a show of righteousness through faith in Christ our
>> >> >> Lord.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Romans 10:4 KJVR For Christ is the end of the law for
>> >> >> righteousness to every one that believeth.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Romans 10:9-11 KJVR That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth
>> >> >> the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath
>> >> >> raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the
>> >> >> heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth
>> >> >> confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture saith,
>> >> >> Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Of couse not, 'He' does not exist, but the random effects of the evolutionary
>> >> >> >process going terribly wrong does?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Statistics
>> >> >> >> In 2003 alone, in the United States alone, 854,000 babies were
>> >> >> >> murdered by those who reject God. Extend this world-wide, and you
>> >> >> >> have millions of babies murdered every year.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I know of nothing in the bible condemning abortion. Care to oblige?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Certainly. Abortion is murder. Do you know of anything in the
>> >> >> Bible that condemns murder?
>> >> >
>> >> >i am asking about abortion and there is nothing.
>> >>
>> >> See what I mean? Right there in the span of one post you
>> >> rationalized away the murder of innocent babies, clearly acting
>> >> like an abortion is not murder. Unbelievable.
>> >
>> >Abortion is a difficult issue,
>>
>> It's not difficult for those who realize murdering an innocent
>> baby, stopping a beating heart of a living human being, for a
>> reason other than keeping yourself from dying because of it, is
>> evil no matter what his or her age. It's only a difficult issue
>> for those who are capable of rationalizing murder as being ok if
>> it prevents that baby from inconveniencing their job, their
>> relationship, their lifestyle. Translation: people who reject God
>> have a hard time stopping themselves from murdering a baby for
>> selfish reasons, which is what makes it a "difficult issue".
>
>How pleased you must be that abortion exists
>so it can be used as a marketing tool
>for your god that doesn't.

There are many people that do not believe in God that also would
never murder an innocent baby because they realize murder is
wrong. It's a shame you've set up all kinds of loopholes to
rationalize it being ok do so.

>
>>
>> >even newly borne animals are on occasions killed by their
>> >mothers for some unexplained reason.
>>
>> So your method of rationalizing it is "look - animals do it! Must
>> be ok for us too!" I can see why you think the issue is so
>> difficult for you. Listen to yourself: you're saying it's a
>> difficult thing to get yourself to stop from murdering an
>> innocent baby. You're pointing out to how animals do it to as
>> part of the reason why. Thank you for proving my point. Man is
>> quite wicked, and those who truly follow God would not be so evil
>> as to find it "so difficult" to keep from murdering their own
>> baby boy or girl.
>
>See above
>
>>
>>
>> >The subject will be discussed forever, but it has
>> >nothing to do with gods, since were there a god which created us 'in it's image' it would
>> >hardly allow it's creation to destroy 'His' work, would 'He'?
>> >
>> >Or is that too logical for you to accept?
>
>Obviousdy it ws too logical..........
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >do you people EVER get tired of all your contortions?
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And how fortunate we who live are that our parents didn't murder
>> >> >> us. How unfortunate for millions human beings every year who get
>> >> >> murdered by their parents.
>> >
>> >I do believe in most societies such an action is not decreed as murder. This only
>> >applies when someone wishes t make a religious point about a terribly difficult subject
>> >
>> >Around 1950 the chinese government made a decree called the One Child Family. as you
>> >know that country already has a huge population [1.3 billion] and recently they used a
>> >computer to estimate how many people they would need to feed had this decree not been
>> >enacted, the figure was in the region of 800 million.
>> >
>> >As i said - a difficult subject. If we grow our population to the level where we start
>> >starving to death the world over will your god suddenly put in an appearance and bail us
>> >out? I don't think so - how many lives were lost in the Indian floods last week, over
>> >five thousand the tally is today. Were all these unfortunates sinners?
>
>thank you for ignoring the last part of my post, it obviously had you stumped.
>
>>
>> >
>> >Cheers
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why do they do this? Here are the most popular reasons.
>> >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Reasons_for_abortions
>> >> >> >> - Don't want the baby right now. So they murder him.
>> >> >> >> - Don't think we can afford her. So they murder her.
>> >> >> >> - Their relationship's not going well, so they murder him.
>> >> >> >> - It will interfere with their education or job, so they murder
>> >> >> >> her.
>> >> >> >> - They don't want another baby. So they murder him.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> People who follow God would avoid abortions except in perhaps
>> >> >> >> life-threatening situations. Those who reject God murder and
>> >> >> >> continue to murder innocent babies by the millions every single
>> >> >> >> year.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It's human beings that are cold hearted. We can choose to repent
>> >> >> >> from being murderers, adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves
>> >> >> >> and whatever else, and turn to God to save us from our
>> >> >> >> wickedness, or we can continue on being just as desperately
>> >> >> >> wicked murderers of innocent babies, adulterers, fornicators,
>> >> >> >> liars and thieves and pay the wages for our sins.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> If God were vengeful, He would reject all of us even though we
>> >> >> >> repent and beg for His mercy. He doesn't reject us.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> 2 Peter 3:9 KJVR The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
>> >> >> >> as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not
>> >> >> >> willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
>> >> >> >> repentance.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> He takes any of us who truly repent and ask for forgiveness and
>> >> >> >> mercy. Praise God!

 

[Gabriel]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:40:11 +1100, "Andrew W"
<removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:

>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:m0tuk3t03ohaq2cfcrgjklnei427mbkb5m@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:39:14 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:tdfpk3phb98nvigh7ksi2ei2iokoq462dq@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:51:36 +1100, "Andrew W"
>>>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1jlgk3tif8qbakg1bihcuih03rsnkgag36@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2007 22:02:02 -0600, bob young
>>>>>> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those who reject Him
>>>>>>>> clearly show themselves to be murderers of innocent babies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh dear - how sick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, sick indeed. People murder their babies the vast majority of
>>>>>> the time for no good reason other than that of convenience.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't be a spastic. No one has ever had an abortion just for
>>>>>"convenience".
>>>>
>>>> No one? You sure? Look more closely at the reasons given on that
>>>> website. You snipped the most popular ones given by that study,
>>>> and here they are again:
>>>>
>>>> - Don't want the baby right now. So they murder him. It's a shame
>>>> their baby didn't come at a convenient time.
>>>> - Don't think we can afford her. So they murder her. How
>>>> inconvenient they don't think they can afford her. So they murder
>>>> her.
>>>> - Their relationship's not going well, so they murder him. How
>>>> inconvenient to have a baby when the relationship's not going as
>>>> well as they would like. So they murder her.
>>>> - It will interfere with their education or job, so they murder
>>>> her. How inconvenient that education would have to take a back
>>>> seat to the life of an innocent child. Hey, my education is more
>>>> important, they say, and they murder her.
>>>>
>>>> It is quite dishonest of you to claim these babies are never
>>>> murdered out of convenience, when the vast majority of baby boys
>>>> and baby girls are murdered for exactly that reason!
>>>>
>>>>>And abortion of a foetus is not equal to "murder" of "babies".
>>>>
>>>> Does admitting it's a baby make you feel uncomfortable? It
>>>> should! Does calling it a fetus make you feel ok to murder him or
>>>> her? That's amazing! You're yet another person that rationalizes
>>>> away the murder of innocent babies. How tragic that you think
>>>> it's ok to do so. That's scary.
>>>>
>>>> Some think it sounds bad what God does to us sinners. But when
>>>> you continue to witness first hand out wicked and murderous we
>>>> can be, the fact is every one of us deserves it.
>>>>
>>>> Take care. I hope you one day you at least realize it's not a
>>>> good thing to murder babies, whether you believe in God or not.
>>>
>>>I noticed that you prominently added your own emotionally charged
>>>comments.
>>
>> Murder, let alone of innocent babies, should be an emotionless
>> thing?
>>
>>>The "murder" accusation is your emotional view and others of your kind.
>>
>> My kind? You mean there's only a certain kind that believes it's
>> wrong to murder? Let alone murder innocent babies? I'd be ashamed
>> to not be one of that kind! To call myself a murder of innocent
>> babies. To rationalize murdering them and acting like it's a
>> non-emotional thing.
>>
>>>Lets look at it again with a wider and more mature perspective.
>>
>> Why do you want to claim murdering babies is a more mature
>> perspective?
>>
>>>
>>>25.5% Want to postpone childbearing ------ the child will suffer if the
>>>parents-to-be are not yet ready and skilled enough to properly raise a
>>>child.
>>
>> "Sorry Julia. But I don't think I'm ready for you. Sure I'm old
>> enough, but I don't think I'll do a proper job. So I'll just
>> murder you instead of learning how to raise you properly like
>> everyone else does."
>>
>> "Sorry Mike. We didn't want to have a child until we hit 28 so we
>> can do our thing first. So we're just going to murder you instead
>> and wait for our next baby."
>>
>>>21.3% Cannot afford a baby ------ the child will suffer if there is not
>>>enough money for food, provisions and education for the child.
>>
>> "Sorry Billy. I don't think I can afford you. I'd have to cut
>> back on my current lifestyle and that would be too inconvenient.
>> So I'll just murder you instead."
>>
>>>14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy ------
>>>children suffer the most when relationships/marriages break down.
>>
>> "Sorry Cindy. Rather than have you deal with the temporary
>> emotional pain of a bad relationship, I'll just murder you
>> instead. Yes, I know many of the strongest people with the
>> strongest character in life come from adversity in childhood, but
>> I'd rather spare you that adversity and murder you instead. If
>> you could think and talk, I'm sure you'd tell us that's what you
>> want us to do, to murder you, rather than being given your own
>> chance to live a life."
>>
>>>12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy ------ the
>>>child
>>>will suffer if the parents-to-be are not yet ready and skilled enough to
>>>properly raise a child.
>>
>> Sorry but unless the parents are around 14 or younger, it's
>> really "Sorry, Brittany, I think I'm too young to have kids - I
>> have my whole life ahead of me and want kids later, so I'm going
>> to murder you instead."
>>
>>>10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job ------ the child will
>>>suffer if the parents-to-be are not educated enough or don't have steady
>>>income.
>>
>> "Sorry Heather, but my education or my job is more important than
>> you are. You'd interrupt my education or my job, so I'm just
>> going to murder you instead."
>>
>>>7.9% Want no (more) children ------ the child will suffer if the
>>>household
>>>is already stressed to its limits.
>>
>> "Sorry Jeff, we didn't want any more babies, so we're just going
>> to murder you instead of giving you up for adoption. Yes, I know
>> a ton of people are on waiting lists of adopting babies and you'd
>> easily find a home that would love you because they are unable to
>> conceive, but I'm going to murder you instead."
>>
>>>3.3% Risk to fetal health ------ the child could be born deformed in
>>>which
>>>case it will suffer horribly all its life.
>>
>> "Sorry Kate. Rather than risk that you might have physical
>> problems, I'm just going to murder you instead. After all,
>> everyone knows every single handicapped person is doing nothing
>> more than suffering horribly and living a useless existence."
>>
>>>2.8% Risk to maternal health ------ the child will suffer if the mother
>>>is
>>>too sick to feed/raise child.
>>
>> "Sorry Jim. Rather than give you up for adoption if I end up
>> being too sick to feed and raise you, I will murder you instead."
>>
>>>2.1% Other
>>>
>>>These sufferings last for decades or lifetimes.
>>
>> Many of the people with the strongest character came from adverse
>> backgrounds. Many dysfunctional adults come from backgrounds
>> where they were given every advantage. I don't agree with you
>> trying to say that "someone might suffer in their childhood to
>> some degree" makes it ok to murder them as a baby.
>>
>>>Suffering during an abortion lasts only 5-10 minutes.
>>
>> Not so. You murdered the baby - you just denied that baby a
>> lifetime. For that people go to jail for life.
>>
>>>Now I'm not saying I support abortion, I just see the bigger picture.
>>
>> The bigger picture is how human beings have done such a scary job
>> of being able to justify murdering a baby for the sake of mostly
>> convenience reasons.
>>
>>>If an unexpected and unwanted new addition comes then options have to be
>>>looked at without getting all emotional and googly eyed.
>>
>> Murdering a baby is not something that should affect your
>> emotions?
>>
>>>The other thing is that this world is already badly over populated.
>>
>> "Sorry Elise, but I think there are too many people in the world,
>> so I'm just going to murder you instead." It doesn't work. That's
>> coldhearted murder.
>>
>>>And the Bible God already places humans at a very low value and throws
>>>them
>>>on the fire like its spring cleaning time
>>
>> If you want to start a discussion about God: we are the ones that
>> throw ourselves on the fire by rejecting Christ's sacrifice on
>> the cross for us to save us from our sins. Each and every one of
>> us can easily have a blessed eternity in heaven with God if we
>> turn away and repent from being murderers (of innocent babies no
>> less), adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves and so on, and
>> instead trust on Christ alone to save us from the wages of our
>> sins. Many don't turn away from this wickedness, and reject that
>> free gift. So really we do it to ourselves. And we continue to
>> rationalize the murder of innocent babies as huge evidence of our
>> wicked, evil ways.
>>
>> And you can clearly see from simply the one solitary topic of
>> abortion that human beings are quite evil at heart to so easily
>> rationalize murdering innocent babies in the name of mostly
>> convenience! We deserve no less than death ourselves for such
>> wickedness. But Christ still loves us and offers to save us from
>> our wickedness! We have our lifetime to -choose- to accept this
>> saving grace, or to -choose- to be cast into hell to pay the
>> wages of our sins and wickedness ourselves.
>>
>>> so why are you so upset about what
>>>we humans do when we're stuck between a rock and a hard place?
>>>Its all about emotions.
>>
>> Actually it's more simply all about deciding you're not going to
>> be the murderer of innocent babies, for the sake of convenience
>> no less.
>
>I know what the problem is here. For some reason you don't know the
>difference between a foetus and a fully developed and born baby.

The real problem is you rationalize the fact that it's still a
living human being, a baby, with a beating heart of its own.

It's a good thing you didn't come at an inconvenient time for
your parents, or that your parents perhaps don't believe in
murdering innocent babies because society has made it ok to do
so.

> And you
>make names foetuses as though they're fully developed people who already
>have a life in the world.

Many people name their baby while it's still growing in the womb.
They know he or she is already their baby. They realize they
already have a baby. How unfortunate it's uncomfortable for you
to realize it's a living baby even when inside the womb, kicking
away.

>Where were you educated? Let me guess. A seminary. No, a sect hostel.
>If your God kills so many humans including babies then why do you make such
>a fuss about it?
>Its only a physical body at the moulding stage. A temporary vehicle for this
>world. The soul is the real person.

So you have accurate knowledge that the baby doesn't have a soul
while it's in the womb? Of course not - it's yet another way you
try to rationalize mudering babies.

>And how do you know God doesn't plan for a certain number of foetuses to be
>aborted to maintain control of the population?

So you think we're Gods now, and that makes it ok to murder
babies, that we're doing God's will by murdering babies. That's
quite a stretch to say the least.

>If a soul can't take one body then it simply waits for another to come
>along.

You're going on the convenient unknowable option that the baby
doesn't yet have a soul. None of us knows either way.

>How do you know God isn't telling those people to abort. Animals sometimes
>reject their young as well when they sense something's not right..

As I said, one way you rationalize it is "animals do it, so let
us human beings do it too".

>You don't
>know what God's doing. You're trying to second guess him.

God says "thou shalt not kill". Why is it, if you're going to
continue focussing on God, that you're ignoring Him and making
yourself God?

>What's your problem?
>Why are you so obsessed with pre-developed material bodies? They're so easy
>to make.

More rationalization: a baby is so easy to make, murder them all
you want!

You've shown what I've said: we are so evil at heart, we even
easily rationalize away murdering babies. In the span of this
posts you've proposed several such rationalizations that make it
just fine to murder innocent babies. Please take a hard look at
how you've so effortlessly rationalized the murder of babies in
your mind, and then go thank your parents they didn't believe as
you did when you were born.

You can offer up as many rationalizations you want - that's all
they are. Wicked attempts to make it ok in your mind to murder
babies.

 

[john w]

x-no-archive: yes
On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:

 

[john w]

x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:58:44 -0500, Gabriel
<gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

[Gabriel]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:00:32 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:58:44 -0500, Gabriel
><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

 

[Ghamph]

"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rrv0l39d3vl4kcc6av23f28n0ohrn5ot28@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:00:32 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:58:44 -0500, Gabriel
> ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >

 

[bob young]

"john w

> x-no-archive: yes
> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> wrote:
>

 

[Gabriel]

On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:

>
>
>"john w
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
>> wrote:
>>

 

[Gabriel]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:15:43 -0500, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:

>
>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:rrv0l39d3vl4kcc6av23f28n0ohrn5ot28@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:00:32 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >x-no-archive: yes
>> >On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:58:44 -0500, Gabriel
>> ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >

 

[Ghamph]

"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"john w
> >
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>

 

[Ghamph]

"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:00t2l3t9olgq7mvjnp24do79fdg812o2rp@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:15:43 -0500, "Ghamph"
> <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:rrv0l39d3vl4kcc6av23f28n0ohrn5ot28@4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:00:32 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >x-no-archive: yes
> >> >On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:58:44 -0500, Gabriel
> >> ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >

 

[John Galt]

"Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:13l30t3sa60ure6@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
>> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
>> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>
> Gabe, you sound like a broken record. Try something new to support your
> stagnant views.
> There is zero evidence of creation, that's the bottom line, moron.

Why would you care what he believes? If he chooses to believe in
creationism, that's his business, and doesn't affect you in the slightest.

Have you personally ever used the "it's a person's private business, and
doesn't bother anyone" argument in any fashion? In conjunction with
abortion? Gay marriage? Sodomy laws? Prostitution? Personal drug use?

And, if you have, why would you not grant this person the same dignity to be
left alone in his private beliefs and actions that you request for others?


JG

<snip>

 

[Ghamph]

"John Galt" <whoisjohngalt@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:13l34r0gidebme9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
> news:13l30t3sa60ure6@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
> >> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
>
>> >So unconvincing, your conscience has you spending huge amounts of
> >>your time in religious newsgroups trying to convince yourself
> >>that your beliefs are right. You ignore the evidence of creation,
> >>and you ignore the evidence of your own conscience and how it
> >>makes you spend huge amounts of time in God-worshiping
> >>newsgroups. You're not here to find out the truth, just to
> >>convince yourself that a lie you need to believe in is true. It's
> >>not. Please open your mind to the evidence of your very own
> >>behavior that your conscience is using to try to tell you
> >>something.



> >
> > Gabe, you sound like a broken record. Try something new to support your
> > stagnant views.
> > There is zero evidence of creation, that's the bottom line, moron.
>
> Why would you care what he believes? If he chooses to believe in
> creationism, that's his business, and doesn't affect you in the slightest.

Then why is he criticizing others about their views, moron.

>
> Have you personally ever used the "it's a person's private business, and
> doesn't bother anyone" argument in any fashion? In conjunction with
> abortion? Gay marriage? Sodomy laws? Prostitution? Personal drug use?

Fine, when Gabe starts that attitude we can all adopt it.

>
> And, if you have, why would you not grant this person the same dignity to
be
> left alone in his private beliefs and actions that you request for others?

Fine, tell Gabe to leave it alone then, moron.

>
>
> JG
>
> <snip>
>
>

 

[John Galt]

"Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:13l36sb2r07mn62@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "John Galt" <whoisjohngalt@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
> news:13l34r0gidebme9@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:13l30t3sa60ure6@corp.supernews.com...
>> >
>> > "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
>> >> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
>> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>>
>>> >So unconvincing, your conscience has you spending huge amounts of
>> >>your time in religious newsgroups trying to convince yourself
>> >>that your beliefs are right. You ignore the evidence of creation,
>> >>and you ignore the evidence of your own conscience and how it
>> >>makes you spend huge amounts of time in God-worshiping
>> >>newsgroups. You're not here to find out the truth, just to
>> >>convince yourself that a lie you need to believe in is true. It's
>> >>not. Please open your mind to the evidence of your very own
>> >>behavior that your conscience is using to try to tell you
>> >>something.
>
>
>
>> >
>> > Gabe, you sound like a broken record. Try something new to support
>> > your
>> > stagnant views.
>> > There is zero evidence of creation, that's the bottom line, moron.
>>
>> Why would you care what he believes? If he chooses to believe in
>> creationism, that's his business, and doesn't affect you in the
>> slightest.
>
> Then why is he criticizing others about their views, moron.

If he has, he ought to clam up. It's not appropriate behavior.

JG


>
>>
>> Have you personally ever used the "it's a person's private business, and
>> doesn't bother anyone" argument in any fashion? In conjunction with
>> abortion? Gay marriage? Sodomy laws? Prostitution? Personal drug use?
>
> Fine, when Gabe starts that attitude we can all adopt it.
>
>>
>> And, if you have, why would you not grant this person the same dignity to
> be
>> left alone in his private beliefs and actions that you request for
>> others?
>
> Fine, tell Gabe to leave it alone then, moron.
>
>>
>>
>> JG
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[bob young]

Gabriel wrote:

> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"john w
> >
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>

 

[bob young]

John Galt wrote:

> "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
> news:13l30t3sa60ure6@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
> >> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> > Gabe, you sound like a broken record. Try something new to support your
> > stagnant views.
> > There is zero evidence of creation, that's the bottom line, moron.
>
> Why would you care what he believes? If he chooses to believe in
> creationism, that's his business, and doesn't affect you in the slightest.
>
> Have you personally ever used the "it's a person's private business, and
> doesn't bother anyone" argument in any fashion? In conjunction with
> abortion? Gay marriage? Sodomy laws? Prostitution? Personal drug use?
>
> And, if you have, why would you not grant this person the same dignity to be
> left alone in his private beliefs and actions that you request for others?
>
> JG

Posters do not come here to sleep.

This is an exchange of views forum as you have just demonstrated, it is called
'free speech'

Part and parcel of democracy

>
>
> <snip>