Religious Martyrs

x-no-archive: yes
On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 09:46:43 -0500, Gabriel
<gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:37:00 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
wrote:
 
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:45:57 -0800, the 'other party' whined:

>On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:37:00 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
>wrote:

>>"John Galt" <whoisjohngalt@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>>news:13l34r0gidebme9@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:13l30t3sa60ure6@corp.supernews.com...
>>> >
>>> > "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
>>> >> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
>>> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>>
>>>> >So unconvincing, your conscience has you spending huge amounts of
>>> >>your time in religious newsgroups trying to convince yourself
>>> >>that your beliefs are right. You ignore the evidence of creation,
>>> >>and you ignore the evidence of your own conscience and how it
>>> >>makes you spend huge amounts of time in God-worshiping
>>> >>newsgroups. You're not here to find out the truth, just to
>>> >>convince yourself that a lie you need to believe in is true. It's
>>> >>not. Please open your mind to the evidence of your very own
>>> >>behavior that your conscience is using to try to tell you
>>> >>something.
>>
>>
>>
>>> >
>>> > Gabe, you sound like a broken record. Try something new to support your
>>> > stagnant views.
>>> > There is zero evidence of creation, that's the bottom line, moron.
>>>
>>> Why would you care what he believes? If he chooses to believe in
>>> creationism, that's his business, and doesn't affect you in the slightest.
>>
>>Then why is he criticizing others about their views, moron.
>>
>>>
>>> Have you personally ever used the "it's a person's private business, and
>>> doesn't bother anyone" argument in any fashion? In conjunction with
>>> abortion? Gay marriage? Sodomy laws? Prostitution? Personal drug use?
>>
>>Fine, when Gabe starts that attitude we can all adopt it.
>


SNIP!
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:25:50 -0500, Gabriel
<gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:15:43 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
wrote:
 
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:43:14 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 09:46:43 -0500, Gabriel
><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
 
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:55:28 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:25:50 -0500, Gabriel
><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
 
Gabriel wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:43:14 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 09:46:43 -0500, Gabriel
> ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
 
"john w

> x-no-archive: yes
> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> wrote:
>
 
Gabriel wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:55:28 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:25:50 -0500, Gabriel
> ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
 
"john w

> x-no-archive: yes
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:25:50 -0500, Gabriel
> <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
 
x-no-archive: yes
On 2 Dec 2007 22:35:05 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
 
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:38:55 +1100, "Andrew W"
<removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:

>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:k48hk3dg37dg440l8dbfr94e4v7gc2n51l@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:02:43 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:8s7fk3l45komt1jv6lvj92m9kmvvrmfdl6@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:04:20 -0500, "Ghamph"
>>>> <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Andrew" <thecroft@macunlimited.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:2007112321462475249-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
>>>>>> On 2007-11-23 17:44:30 +0000, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Your all powerful God permited it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your co-religionists went ahead and did it. Don't blame God for
>>>>>> what people do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you, people are all powerful, not God.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If God wanted to, he could make all of us mindless robots since
>>>> so many of us are determined to be so wicked.
>>>
>>>Most people who reject the Christian God are not wicked.
>>>Wicked people are in a minority,
>>
>> Really? It's only a few people that are murdering millions of
>> babies every year? It's only a few people that are committing
>> adultery? Stealing? Lying? Fornication? Adultery? If we can't
>> even be honest about how wicked we are, we have no chance of
>> bettering ourselves.
>
>You Christians have a flare for the dramatic. You are driven by pious
>emotion and religious fervour based on wild beliefs that stem from negative
>thinking and hatred toward the human race.
>The Bible God killed without any thought. Why are humans suddenly so
>valuable?
>Abortion is not exactly wickedness. It depends on your beliefs.

It's sad you find it so easy to rationalize away murdering
babies. No wonder millions of babies are murdered every year. Not
exactly wickedness? Tell that to Christ when you face Him one day
- on that day you'll have no choice but to accept the truth of
how evil it is to murder babies. The fact that you act like it's
ok to murder babies is utterly amazing and sad at the same time.
There's nothing more to say.

>Those women
>are ordinary people with their own problems.
>Stopping the growth of a foetus is not the same as murdering a baby. A
>foetus is not yet a baby to begin with.
>Raising a child without giving it total love and care is more wicked because
>its for much longer.
>
>Adultery isn't wickedness unless someone does it purposely to hurt someone.
>Virtually all the things you mentioned are mostly done because of bad
>societal and personal circumstances.
>There are far more wicked things going on in places of power by wealthy
>corporations.
>Funny how the Christian God only singles out the easy targets and the ones
>that Christians can see around them.
>
>>
>>>except if you believe that the six o'clock
>>>news and the biblical stories are the only realities.
>>>And as for being a robot, Christians are given a choice, that's true, but
>>>only to become the Bible God's robot. Same result.
>>
>> Loving others as yourself is hardly being a robot -- it's not an
>> easy choice to make, as it goes against human nature to be all
>> about "me me me!". Being a slave to sin is more like being a
>> robot -- because it takes no effort to be selfish.
>
>If Christianity was just about loving others as yourself then I would have
>no problem with it.
>
>>
>>>
>>>> He doesn't want
>>>> that. He wants people that will -choose- to worship Him.
>>>
>>>What about those who are not worshipping types?
>>>Not everyone is a born worshipper. In fact most are not.
>>
>> You seem to think worshipping God involves being on your knees at
>> all times. Doing his will is a form of worship. Loving others as
>> yourself is a form of worship. Reading His Word is a form of
>> worship. Thinking of him when you're doing activities is a form
>> of worship. Singing and listening to songs of praise is a form of
>> worship. And the list goes on.
>
>The spiritually uneducated worship and praise an anthropomorphised humanoid
>judgemental version of God in a self-disempowered and slave-minded way,
>whereas the spiritually educated honour and work with all of creation as
>co-creators which is the way it should be.
>
>>
>>>Why do you believe the Creator enjoys being worshipped and praised so
>>>much?
>>>Is he obsessed with himself?
>>
>> Why do you believe there are people who get created by God but
>> refuse to thank him for doing so? That want to continue to reject
>> him and be a slave to sin instead?
>
>How is a person who is burdened with problems supposed to be thankful to an
>invisible entity who never communicates any more like he did in biblical
>times?
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> And I
>>>> don't know about you, but speaking for me, I'd prefer to have
>>>> free will and make my own choice.
>>>
>>>What choice? Worship me or die?
>>>If a gun is put to your head (which it has) then of course your choice is
>>>better.
>>>But why buy into such a charade in the first place?
>>
>> The choice is not worship or die. The choice is we've broken
>> God's Holy Law. There's a punishment for that (much like there's
>> a punishment for breaking man's law). That punishment must be
>> paid. You can either choose to pay it yourself, ending up in
>> hell, or you can choose to receive the free gift that Christ
>> offers by paying the price for your sins on the cross.
>
>This is just the Christian spiel. There is no evidence that our Creator is
>angry with us and wants us to pay, and will punish us.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> God not using His powers in way we believe He should does not
>>>> equate to Him not being all-powerful.
>>>
>>>But he doesn't use his powers at all.
>>
>> See you don't know this.
>
>And neither do you.
>
>> We see his power almost every day in our
>> lives!
>
>That is a matter of perspective.
>
>> If his power keeps some tragedies from befalling you,
>> you'd never know it because the tragedy never occurred. But for
>> those of us who've received Christ, we can see his blessings at
>> work in our lives every day! Praise God!
>>
>>
>>>At least not since the biblical times.
>>>Maybe he's gone.
>>>
>>
>> 2 Peter 3:8-10 KJVR But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one
>> thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a
>> thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning
>> his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to
>> us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should
>> come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a
>> thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with
>> a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the
>> earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
>>
>> He hasn't gone anywhere. But many people are certainly trying
>> hard to remove Him. Just look at how much they're trying to get
>> rid of any evidence of Him from our schools.
>
>What evidence?
>
>> At the same time,
>> look at the growing number of tragedies that befall these same
>> schools. They remove God, then wonder why His blessings are being
>> removed as well.
>
>What about the tragedies that befall Christian churches and pastors?
>
>>
>> Praise our creator!
>
>Whatever. If you were raised in the middle east then you would now be
>praising Allah.
 
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:55:24 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
wrote:

>
>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
>> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
>> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >"john w
>> >
>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>> >> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
 
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:brt8l31tgrmsv1ff00gulkq9qh8uqjeta2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:38:55 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:k48hk3dg37dg440l8dbfr94e4v7gc2n51l@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:02:43 +1100, "Andrew W"
>>> <removethis_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:8s7fk3l45komt1jv6lvj92m9kmvvrmfdl6@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:04:20 -0500, "Ghamph"
>>>>> <ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Andrew" <thecroft@macunlimited.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:2007112321462475249-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
>>>>>>> On 2007-11-23 17:44:30 +0000, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Your all powerful God permited it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And your co-religionists went ahead and did it. Don't blame God for
>>>>>>> what people do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you, people are all powerful, not God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If God wanted to, he could make all of us mindless robots since
>>>>> so many of us are determined to be so wicked.
>>>>
>>>>Most people who reject the Christian God are not wicked.
>>>>Wicked people are in a minority,
>>>
>>> Really? It's only a few people that are murdering millions of
>>> babies every year? It's only a few people that are committing
>>> adultery? Stealing? Lying? Fornication? Adultery? If we can't
>>> even be honest about how wicked we are, we have no chance of
>>> bettering ourselves.
>>
>>You Christians have a flare for the dramatic. You are driven by pious
>>emotion and religious fervour based on wild beliefs that stem from
>>negative
>>thinking and hatred toward the human race.
>>The Bible God killed without any thought. Why are humans suddenly so
>>valuable?
>>Abortion is not exactly wickedness. It depends on your beliefs.
>
> It's sad you find it so easy to rationalize away murdering
> babies. No wonder millions of babies are murdered every year.


The only one calling abortion "murdering babies" is you and a few others
like you!!
Its your private little war on society.

> Not
> exactly wickedness? Tell that to Christ when you face Him one day
> - on that day you'll have no choice but to accept the truth of
> how evil it is to murder babies.

Yet your so called "God's Word" says nothing about it.
Do you perhaps have a baby (foetus) obsession or something?
Do you consider yourself to be a right wing extremist?
Would you kill for it?
Guess what, Christ doesn't like extremists.

> The fact that you act like it's
> ok to murder babies is utterly amazing and sad at the same time.
> There's nothing more to say.

I never said its ok to murder babies. You're the one who insists that
foetuses are fully developed people.
You're trying to impose your private definition onto society. You seem to
think that you're the only righteous person left in the world. That is
self-righteousness.
Your God doesn't value foetuses but for some reason you think they're
priceless. You think you're better than him.


--
Andrew W.

"You must unlearn what you have learned" ~ Yoda

Channelled lessons about ET's, ascended masters like Jesus Christ, spirit
guides, earth changes.
http://www.spiritnexus.com/audio/channeling/index.htm

The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm

Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
 
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5bv8l3do13s2ucn6von30du1bdjd6fkqim@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:55:24 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
> >> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"john w
> >> >
> >> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >> >> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
 
Gabriel wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:55:24 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:shs2l317imtf6jtijtukt7qpscu6bgpcrf@4ax.com...
> >> On 1 Dec 2007 04:40:02 -0600, bob young
> >> <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"john w
> >> >
> >> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >> >> On 25 Nov 2007 19:42:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
 
"john w

> x-no-archive: yes
> On 2 Dec 2007 22:35:05 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
> wrote:
>
 

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