South Africa to **** McDonald's right up their arseholes!!!

"Irv Hyatt" <irvhyatt@ca.rr.com> wrote in message news:46b030fd$0$20598$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...


Ouch!

Wisdom from a Seventh-Century Missionary

When Columbanus set out from Bangor somewhere near the end of the
sixth century, 50 years old, after a long career of preparing men for the
mission field, he and his little band were determined to follow Christ
wherever He led, and to proclaim His Kingdom without compromise.

That almost got them thrown out and shipped back to Ireland (a divine
breakdown in the vessel carrying the exiles back to Ireland led our hero to
believe God wanted them to stay, which he did, moving on further to the
south). Then, as if it weren't enough to poke his finger in the eye of the
secular authority, he began criticizing the moribund condition of the
Catholic Church in his neck of the woods.

He sent letters to at least two popes, declaring that their bishops and
priests weren't doing their job, and encouraging them to do something
about it. Of course, this news got back to the bishops and priests, and they
determined to convene a synod in order to confront this backwoods boy
about how things worked in the Church in Gaul. Only to get this reply:

I render thanks to my God, that for my sake so many holy men have been
gathered together to treat of the truth of faith and good works, and, as
befits such, to judge of the matters under dispute with a just judgment,
through senses sharpened to the discernment of good and evil. Would that
you did that more often.

Ouch! Wow, what a zinger. He, of course, politely refused to come when
called, and instead proceeded to outline for his summoners what they
should be doing instead of seeking some leg up on him. Here is his
peroration:

Let each maintain what he has grasped; but let all maintain the gospel, and
both parties [his Celts and the Roman priests], like single harmonious
members of one body, follow Christ the head of all by His own
commands, which were revealed by Him to be accomplished in charity
and peace. And these two cannot be perfectly accomplished, save by truly
humble and unitedly spiritual men, who fulfill Christ's commands, as the
Lord Himself bears witness, If ye love Me, keep My commandments, this
is My commandment, that ye love one another, as I also have loved you,
for in this shall all know that ye are My disciples, if ye love one another.
Thus unity of minds and peace and charity then can be assured, spread
abroad in the bowels of believers by the Holy Ghost, when all alike long to
fulfill the divine commands; for the fiction of peace and charity between the
imperfect will be such as is the measure of disagreement in their practical
pursuits.

Ouch! For the non-Celtic reader, here's a paraphrase of that last
paragraph: You talk a good game, about loving me and wanting the best
for me; but if you would just practice what you profess to want to lecture
me about, then we would have no dispute in the first place, and we'd both
be able to get on with the work of the Gospel harmoniously together.

If Columbanus is reading this issue of our newsletter, I hope he's pointing
and saying, "Yes, just like that." As John Armstrong exhorts us to work
hard at unity rather than turf-protecting and empire-building; as Bob Lynn
reminds us of what real Gospel love looks like on the ground, where
people live each day; as David Naugle celebrates William Cowper
celebrating the grand redemptive work of Jesus and the coming of His
eschatological Kingdom; as we see hear two young pastors laboring
together to equip the next generation of church planters; and as we
consider two very valuable books for the accomplishing of all the above,
let us accept whatever occasional "Ouch!" may come from our dear
writers and press on with them to discover what God has for each one of
us in furthering the Gospel of His Kingdom, His Son, and His love.

T. M. Moore
Editor

Worldview Church

I Believe in One Church
Dr. John Armstrong
We must think about the generation that is following us. They long for
relational expressions of community that go beyond the failures of the
crumbling American church establishment.

My Rather Idiosyncratic Worldview Reading List
Rev. Robert Lynn
A Puritan preacher was reported to have said, "Sell your bed and buy a
book, as long as it is a good book."

Rediscovering the Forgotten Poet Laureate of a Christian Worldview:
William Cowper and Redemption
Dr. David Naugle
We are operating as Christians with an amputated Bible and as a result
have a disfigured view of the Christian faith.

To Teach Others Also
An Interview with Jim Weaver and Josh Guzman
Not only do the unique gifts of the apprentices serve the church, but their
presence sends a signal to the whole church about the importance of
developing leaders, church-planting, and the disciple-making work of the
pastor.

Book Reviews
Picturing the Gospel: Tapping the Power of the Bible's Imagery
Reviewed by Jimmy Davis

Kingdom Triangle: Recover the Christian Mind, Renovate the Soul,
Restore the Spirit's Power
Reviewed by T.M. Moore
 
"St. Jackanapes" <larry_jackowski@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.2119f393c9bd37f4989718@news.alt.net...


Ouch!

Wisdom from a Seventh-Century Missionary

When Columbanus set out from Bangor somewhere near the end of the
sixth century, 50 years old, after a long career of preparing men for the
mission field, he and his little band were determined to follow Christ
wherever He led, and to proclaim His Kingdom without compromise.

That almost got them thrown out and shipped back to Ireland (a divine
breakdown in the vessel carrying the exiles back to Ireland led our hero to
believe God wanted them to stay, which he did, moving on further to the
south). Then, as if it weren't enough to poke his finger in the eye of the
secular authority, he began criticizing the moribund condition of the
Catholic Church in his neck of the woods.

He sent letters to at least two popes, declaring that their bishops and
priests weren't doing their job, and encouraging them to do something
about it. Of course, this news got back to the bishops and priests, and they
determined to convene a synod in order to confront this backwoods boy
about how things worked in the Church in Gaul. Only to get this reply:

I render thanks to my God, that for my sake so many holy men have been
gathered together to treat of the truth of faith and good works, and, as
befits such, to judge of the matters under dispute with a just judgment,
through senses sharpened to the discernment of good and evil. Would that
you did that more often.

Ouch! Wow, what a zinger. He, of course, politely refused to come when
called, and instead proceeded to outline for his summoners what they
should be doing instead of seeking some leg up on him. Here is his
peroration:

Let each maintain what he has grasped; but let all maintain the gospel, and
both parties [his Celts and the Roman priests], like single harmonious
members of one body, follow Christ the head of all by His own
commands, which were revealed by Him to be accomplished in charity
and peace. And these two cannot be perfectly accomplished, save by truly
humble and unitedly spiritual men, who fulfill Christ's commands, as the
Lord Himself bears witness, If ye love Me, keep My commandments, this
is My commandment, that ye love one another, as I also have loved you,
for in this shall all know that ye are My disciples, if ye love one another.
Thus unity of minds and peace and charity then can be assured, spread
abroad in the bowels of believers by the Holy Ghost, when all alike long to
fulfill the divine commands; for the fiction of peace and charity between the
imperfect will be such as is the measure of disagreement in their practical
pursuits.

Ouch! For the non-Celtic reader, here's a paraphrase of that last
paragraph: You talk a good game, about loving me and wanting the best
for me; but if you would just practice what you profess to want to lecture
me about, then we would have no dispute in the first place, and we'd both
be able to get on with the work of the Gospel harmoniously together.

If Columbanus is reading this issue of our newsletter, I hope he's pointing
and saying, "Yes, just like that." As John Armstrong exhorts us to work
hard at unity rather than turf-protecting and empire-building; as Bob Lynn
reminds us of what real Gospel love looks like on the ground, where
people live each day; as David Naugle celebrates William Cowper
celebrating the grand redemptive work of Jesus and the coming of His
eschatological Kingdom; as we see hear two young pastors laboring
together to equip the next generation of church planters; and as we
consider two very valuable books for the accomplishing of all the above,
let us accept whatever occasional "Ouch!" may come from our dear
writers and press on with them to discover what God has for each one of
us in furthering the Gospel of His Kingdom, His Son, and His love.

T. M. Moore
Editor

Worldview Church

I Believe in One Church
Dr. John Armstrong
We must think about the generation that is following us. They long for
relational expressions of community that go beyond the failures of the
crumbling American church establishment.

My Rather Idiosyncratic Worldview Reading List
Rev. Robert Lynn
A Puritan preacher was reported to have said, "Sell your bed and buy a
book, as long as it is a good book."

Rediscovering the Forgotten Poet Laureate of a Christian Worldview:
William Cowper and Redemption
Dr. David Naugle
We are operating as Christians with an amputated Bible and as a result
have a disfigured view of the Christian faith.

To Teach Others Also
An Interview with Jim Weaver and Josh Guzman
Not only do the unique gifts of the apprentices serve the church, but their
presence sends a signal to the whole church about the importance of
developing leaders, church-planting, and the disciple-making work of the
pastor.

Book Reviews
Picturing the Gospel: Tapping the Power of the Bible's Imagery
Reviewed by Jimmy Davis

Kingdom Triangle: Recover the Christian Mind, Renovate the Soul,
Restore the Spirit's Power
Reviewed by T.M. Moore
 
"St. Jackanapes" <larry_jackowski@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.2119ed5ac50a1217989716@news.alt.net...


Where Are We Headed

In these last days, we are seeing terrorist attacks, earthquakes,
tsunamis, hurricanes, mudslides, and many other natural disasters - the
Lord told us these things must happen, and He compared them to the birth
pangs of a woman. We see these events getting worse, seemingly with more
frequency. Having said that, these are not the only signs He gave us to
show us when His return would be near: There was the sign of knowledge
increasing; people traveling more often and to greater distances Dan 12:4
; the persecution of Christians is starting to become a
prophecy-fulfillment, as we see many countries adopting laws prohibiting
Christian activities. We can no longer have the Ten Commandments in some
places; some words, such as Christmas, are now considered offensive; we
see Christian churches accepting homosexual preachers. And there are so
many more things happening that tell us Jesus is coming.

One of the reasons I have for writing this book is the fact that there are
many Christians who teach others that they should not study the Book of
Revelation. They give many reasons for this: Some say it's too confusing,
and no one can understand it; others say it's not meant to be read. While
the excuses are never- ending, I'm here to tell you three reasons why you
should study the Book of Revelation.

First, Revelation is the only book with the promise of being blessed if
you read it. Rev. i:3 Blessed is he who reads the words of this
prophecy... God does not change His mind - whoever reads His Revelation
will be blessed. Yet we still see people teaching that we should not study
this book. God knew that would happen, so He promised a blessing for those
of us who read it, who hear it and, of course, for those who adhere to
that which is in it.

The second reason to study the book is that it is the Revelation of Jesus
Christ Himself. If you believe in Him, you should read His revelation. He
told John to write it because He had you in mind. Consider it a letter
directly from Jesus to you. When I read it, I realize He wrote it with a
desire for me to read it. And as I read it, I'm also blessed knowing He is
showing me things that the Old Testament prophets would have loved to have
read and understood.

The third reason to study the book is that prophecy glorifies God when it
is fulfilled. Prophecy is what God promises will happen in the future.
Because we live in time, no man or angel knows the future. God lives in
eternity, allowing Him to see the future and the past as if it is the
present. The prophecy in the Bible proves to us that it could only have
come from God. Some prophets wrote down a prophecy and asked God for the
interpretation, which shows us they were not the authors of the Bible.
When Daniel asked God for the meaning of some prophecies God gave him, God
told him it was not for him to understand; rather, it was for those living
in the last days. Dan 12:8. Having said that, if we read the Book of
Revelation and understand God's prophecies that are about to happen, will
we not give God the glory when they do happen? Of course we will. So as
you see them start to happen, you can tell God, "Lord, you said it would
happen, and it did happen as you said. I give you all the glory."

I want to say this to all my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ: I
believe Jesus Christ is about to return, and I want to challenge you to
read this book so that you may understand some of the signs that are
happening at this very moment in preparation for His return. This book
arranges the prophecies of the Book of Revelation chronologically so that
God's prophecies will be easier to understand. My intentions are to get
you to realize that the Book of Revelation shows us how great and just our
God and Savior is. I truly believe that we are at the brink of the moment
when we will meet Jesus in the air. That's why I felt the need to write
this book.

I want to mention that I saw a show on TV in which thousands of Christians
from another country were all worshiping God. Our faith is global, which
has made me realize that when the rapture takes place, millions of us
including, Catholics, Protestants, and all those who believe in Jesus
Christ as their Savior, will meet our King, Jesus Christ, in the air. I
can't wait to be together with all of you in the presence of the One who
made me - He is my hero, Jesus Christ.

I want to mention one more thing, today Christians are being tested, we
have seen movies like the passion of the Christ and we can read books like
the Davinci code along with the movie, God is putting the ball in your
court and He wants to know if you will you believe in Christ as God the
Son and as your savior or will you doubt in Him? It's your decision, and I
hope that after reading this book you will be able to make a clear
decision in accepting Jesus as your savior and that you will believe
everything that He said about Himself.

Let me give you the example of the two thieves on the cross; when Jesus
was crucified two thieves were crucified next to Him, they both knew that
Jesus was claiming to be the Christ, but they saw that He was about to
die, and so one of them said; if you are the Christ; come down, save
yourself and save us, in other words; if you are really the Christ why are
you on the cross? There is no way that I will believe in you or in what
you say since you are about to die, and we know that the Christ is
supposed to be a King who will live forever and have a kingdom that will
never end. This man made the decision to reject Jesus as his Savior and he
did not believe that He was the Christ. Jesus did not say a word to that
man, but the other thief said; do you not fear God, we deserve death for
our sins but this man has done nothing wrong, Lord, I believe that you are
the Christ even though you are on a cross, I see past the circumstances
and I put my faith in you, so please remember me when you come in your
kingdom, in other words; when you come to be King of this earth, don't
forget about me. Jesus did answer him, He said; today you will be with me
in paradise. Both thieves saw the one who claimed to be the Christ, and
what they saw caused doubts yet one chose not to believe while the other
one believed and is now in paradise, in this life there are a lot of
doubts, what decision will you chose to take?

The Promise of His Return

John was with the disciples in the presence of the resurrected Christ, and
they asked Jesus if He was finally going to be the King of Israel Jer.
23:5-6 just as the prophets had promised. Acts \-.6-i Then, indeed, these
coming together, they asked Him, saying, Lord, do You at this time restore
the kingdom to Israel? (the disciples asked Him If He would be King now?)
And He said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,
which the Father has put in His own authority (We notice that Jesus did
not deny that He will be King of Israel, but it was not time yet). Acts
i:9-n And saying these things, as they watched, He was taken up. And a
cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking
intently into the Heaven, He having gone, even behold, two men in white
clothing stood beside them, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do you
stand gazing up into the Heaven? This same Jesus who is taken up from you
into Heaven, will come in the way you have seen Him going into Heaven. The
disciples of Jesus Christ were eyewitnesses to His ascension on a cloud
into Heaven, and they had been told that just as Jesus went up into the
clouds, He would return in the clouds. They are the authors of the New
Testament, and they are the ones who tell us of His glorious return in the
clouds, and we are getting close to that day.

There are so many verses in the New Testament that say that Jesus will
come in the clouds, and we also see this in the Old Testament, such as in
Dan 7:13 / saw in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of man
(Jesus) came with the clouds of Heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days
(God the Father), and they brought Him near before Him. The reason He
constantly talks about returning in the clouds is because He wants us to
look up into Heaven in anticipation of His return, so keep your eyes on
Him. He told us to be ready, to watch for His return! This also prevents
us from believing in those who claim to be Jesus Christ since we are told
that He will come in the clouds and every eye will see Him Rev i:7 when He
comes back. That is why no one should have believed David Koresh, and no
one should believe the hundreds of men who today say that they are Jesus
Christ.

THE PROMISE:

JESUS WAS TAKEN UP IN THE CLOUDS AND-HE WILL RETURN IN THE CLOUDS

I want to explain the whole verse of Revelation 1:7 Behold, He comes with
the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see
Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so,
Amen. We read that He will come in the clouds and "every eye will see Him"
this includes those who "pierced Him" but those who pierced Christ are
dead, so how is this possible? We must first learn that we all pierced Him
since He died for us in our place, but this scripture is also speaking of
those who rejected Him and are now dead, they will be able to see Him from
hell because they are not limited to the earthly eyes which can only see
within a short distance, God will allow them to see our Lord who they
rejected, when He takes those Christians who trusted in Him and in His
promises. As they see this event happen they will be filled with sorrow
along with those on earth watching the saints rejoicing as Christ receives
them and gives them white robes while those who rejected Him cannot have
part in this awesome event known as the rapture that is why we read "all
the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him." All those who did not
believe in the Word of God will realize that His promises were true but it
will be too late for them. Hopefully you will not be one of those wailing
but rather one of those caught up to meet Jesus in the air. 1 Th 4:17 Then
we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the
clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the
Lord. Do not miss out on this event!

The idea that someone can see far distances is not unbiblical for we see
that Stephen who was on earth saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God
in Heaven. Act 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, looking up intently
into Heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand
of God. Act 7:56 And he said, Behold, I see Heaven opened and the Son of
Man standing on the right hand of God. This proves that those who pierced
Jesus will indeed see Him from hell when He raptures the church.
 
"St. Jackanapes" <larry_jackowski@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.2119ed13f9fbd8df989715@news.alt.net...

Where Are We Headed

In these last days, we are seeing terrorist attacks, earthquakes,
tsunamis, hurricanes, mudslides, and many other natural disasters - the
Lord told us these things must happen, and He compared them to the birth
pangs of a woman. We see these events getting worse, seemingly with more
frequency. Having said that, these are not the only signs He gave us to
show us when His return would be near: There was the sign of knowledge
increasing; people traveling more often and to greater distances Dan 12:4
; the persecution of Christians is starting to become a
prophecy-fulfillment, as we see many countries adopting laws prohibiting
Christian activities. We can no longer have the Ten Commandments in some
places; some words, such as Christmas, are now considered offensive; we
see Christian churches accepting homosexual preachers. And there are so
many more things happening that tell us Jesus is coming.

One of the reasons I have for writing this book is the fact that there are
many Christians who teach others that they should not study the Book of
Revelation. They give many reasons for this: Some say it's too confusing,
and no one can understand it; others say it's not meant to be read. While
the excuses are never- ending, I'm here to tell you three reasons why you
should study the Book of Revelation.

First, Revelation is the only book with the promise of being blessed if
you read it. Rev. i:3 Blessed is he who reads the words of this
prophecy... God does not change His mind - whoever reads His Revelation
will be blessed. Yet we still see people teaching that we should not study
this book. God knew that would happen, so He promised a blessing for those
of us who read it, who hear it and, of course, for those who adhere to
that which is in it.

The second reason to study the book is that it is the Revelation of Jesus
Christ Himself. If you believe in Him, you should read His revelation. He
told John to write it because He had you in mind. Consider it a letter
directly from Jesus to you. When I read it, I realize He wrote it with a
desire for me to read it. And as I read it, I'm also blessed knowing He is
showing me things that the Old Testament prophets would have loved to have
read and understood.

The third reason to study the book is that prophecy glorifies God when it
is fulfilled. Prophecy is what God promises will happen in the future.
Because we live in time, no man or angel knows the future. God lives in
eternity, allowing Him to see the future and the past as if it is the
present. The prophecy in the Bible proves to us that it could only have
come from God. Some prophets wrote down a prophecy and asked God for the
interpretation, which shows us they were not the authors of the Bible.
When Daniel asked God for the meaning of some prophecies God gave him, God
told him it was not for him to understand; rather, it was for those living
in the last days. Dan 12:8. Having said that, if we read the Book of
Revelation and understand God's prophecies that are about to happen, will
we not give God the glory when they do happen? Of course we will. So as
you see them start to happen, you can tell God, "Lord, you said it would
happen, and it did happen as you said. I give you all the glory."

I want to say this to all my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ: I
believe Jesus Christ is about to return, and I want to challenge you to
read this book so that you may understand some of the signs that are
happening at this very moment in preparation for His return. This book
arranges the prophecies of the Book of Revelation chronologically so that
God's prophecies will be easier to understand. My intentions are to get
you to realize that the Book of Revelation shows us how great and just our
God and Savior is. I truly believe that we are at the brink of the moment
when we will meet Jesus in the air. That's why I felt the need to write
this book.

I want to mention that I saw a show on TV in which thousands of Christians
from another country were all worshiping God. Our faith is global, which
has made me realize that when the rapture takes place, millions of us
including, Catholics, Protestants, and all those who believe in Jesus
Christ as their Savior, will meet our King, Jesus Christ, in the air. I
can't wait to be together with all of you in the presence of the One who
made me - He is my hero, Jesus Christ.

I want to mention one more thing, today Christians are being tested, we
have seen movies like the passion of the Christ and we can read books like
the Davinci code along with the movie, God is putting the ball in your
court and He wants to know if you will you believe in Christ as God the
Son and as your savior or will you doubt in Him? It's your decision, and I
hope that after reading this book you will be able to make a clear
decision in accepting Jesus as your savior and that you will believe
everything that He said about Himself.

Let me give you the example of the two thieves on the cross; when Jesus
was crucified two thieves were crucified next to Him, they both knew that
Jesus was claiming to be the Christ, but they saw that He was about to
die, and so one of them said; if you are the Christ; come down, save
yourself and save us, in other words; if you are really the Christ why are
you on the cross? There is no way that I will believe in you or in what
you say since you are about to die, and we know that the Christ is
supposed to be a King who will live forever and have a kingdom that will
never end. This man made the decision to reject Jesus as his Savior and he
did not believe that He was the Christ. Jesus did not say a word to that
man, but the other thief said; do you not fear God, we deserve death for
our sins but this man has done nothing wrong, Lord, I believe that you are
the Christ even though you are on a cross, I see past the circumstances
and I put my faith in you, so please remember me when you come in your
kingdom, in other words; when you come to be King of this earth, don't
forget about me. Jesus did answer him, He said; today you will be with me
in paradise. Both thieves saw the one who claimed to be the Christ, and
what they saw caused doubts yet one chose not to believe while the other
one believed and is now in paradise, in this life there are a lot of
doubts, what decision will you chose to take?

The Promise of His Return

John was with the disciples in the presence of the resurrected Christ, and
they asked Jesus if He was finally going to be the King of Israel Jer.
23:5-6 just as the prophets had promised. Acts \-.6-i Then, indeed, these
coming together, they asked Him, saying, Lord, do You at this time restore
the kingdom to Israel? (the disciples asked Him If He would be King now?)
And He said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,
which the Father has put in His own authority (We notice that Jesus did
not deny that He will be King of Israel, but it was not time yet). Acts
i:9-n And saying these things, as they watched, He was taken up. And a
cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking
intently into the Heaven, He having gone, even behold, two men in white
clothing stood beside them, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do you
stand gazing up into the Heaven? This same Jesus who is taken up from you
into Heaven, will come in the way you have seen Him going into Heaven. The
disciples of Jesus Christ were eyewitnesses to His ascension on a cloud
into Heaven, and they had been told that just as Jesus went up into the
clouds, He would return in the clouds. They are the authors of the New
Testament, and they are the ones who tell us of His glorious return in the
clouds, and we are getting close to that day.

There are so many verses in the New Testament that say that Jesus will
come in the clouds, and we also see this in the Old Testament, such as in
Dan 7:13 / saw in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of man
(Jesus) came with the clouds of Heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days
(God the Father), and they brought Him near before Him. The reason He
constantly talks about returning in the clouds is because He wants us to
look up into Heaven in anticipation of His return, so keep your eyes on
Him. He told us to be ready, to watch for His return! This also prevents
us from believing in those who claim to be Jesus Christ since we are told
that He will come in the clouds and every eye will see Him Rev i:7 when He
comes back. That is why no one should have believed David Koresh, and no
one should believe the hundreds of men who today say that they are Jesus
Christ.

THE PROMISE:

JESUS WAS TAKEN UP IN THE CLOUDS AND-HE WILL RETURN IN THE CLOUDS

I want to explain the whole verse of Revelation 1:7 Behold, He comes with
the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see
Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so,
Amen. We read that He will come in the clouds and "every eye will see Him"
this includes those who "pierced Him" but those who pierced Christ are
dead, so how is this possible? We must first learn that we all pierced Him
since He died for us in our place, but this scripture is also speaking of
those who rejected Him and are now dead, they will be able to see Him from
hell because they are not limited to the earthly eyes which can only see
within a short distance, God will allow them to see our Lord who they
rejected, when He takes those Christians who trusted in Him and in His
promises. As they see this event happen they will be filled with sorrow
along with those on earth watching the saints rejoicing as Christ receives
them and gives them white robes while those who rejected Him cannot have
part in this awesome event known as the rapture that is why we read "all
the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him." All those who did not
believe in the Word of God will realize that His promises were true but it
will be too late for them. Hopefully you will not be one of those wailing
but rather one of those caught up to meet Jesus in the air. 1 Th 4:17 Then
we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the
clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the
Lord. Do not miss out on this event!

The idea that someone can see far distances is not unbiblical for we see
that Stephen who was on earth saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God
in Heaven. Act 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, looking up intently
into Heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand
of God. Act 7:56 And he said, Behold, I see Heaven opened and the Son of
Man standing on the right hand of God. This proves that those who pierced
Jesus will indeed see Him from hell when He raptures the church.
 
"St. Jackanapes" <larry_jackowski@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.2119ecfb14610b8c989714@news.alt.net...

Who Do Your Books Say That I Am?

New volumes tell much about our Lord--and our cultural moment.

There were 17,249 books about Jesus in the Library of Congress as of
2004, and their number, as this essay attests, continues to climb. Who do
people say the Son of Man is?

It may well be that these thousands of pages have only intensified our
longing for viva vox, the living voice. It is a voice that cuts through our
misery and darkness, our pluralizing cacophony-even, yes, our screens
and reams of print-with the authority and exuberance of Life itself.
Amid the din of our age, we listen and we wait for the voice of life.

Turning and Churning to Jesus

Viva vox was actually a byword for historians in the ancient world. When
given a choice, they opted for eyewitnesses over written sources. They
strongly preferred relying on those whose hands had touched and ears
had heard critical parts of the stories they were intent on preserving. They
fought to get the story right, and so do we.

That's the better part of what these Jesus books are about: The stakes, it
nearly goes without saying, could hardly be higher. "If he did what he
said, then it's nothing for you to do but throw away everything and follow
him." So spoke Flannery O'Connor's tortured, violent Misfit in A Good
Man Is Hard to Find. It's wisdom that can't be topped.

Given this daunting imperative, it's fortunate that we do a lot of history
these days; indeed, in some ways we in the West are more attuned to
history than ever. With the post-Christian, postmodern collapse of visions
of universal morality and of soaring metanarratives that explain our world
to us from some authoritative vantage, we're left with mere history, with
the highly particular, often idiosyncratic, mainly muddled world of
everyday human experience: fraying families, oppressive principalities, the
occasional sparkle of nobility and grace in some movement or person or
place. As we've spun farther away from our Christian identity and
framework, we've found the need, paradoxically, to reckon with our
past-past foundations, past authorities, past ideals.

So in these fracturing United States we turn, stomachs churning, to Jesus
of Nazareth, he whom the historian Richard Wightman Fox, in his book
Jesus in America (HarperSanFrancisco), calls our "single most important
cultural hero." And we turn from different ways and diverging angles.
Marcus Borg, for one, takes the Jesus Seminar to the masses in Jesus:
Uncovering the Life, Teachings, and Relevance of a Religious
Revolutionary (HarperSanFrancisco). Offering us a "Jesus we have never
really met" (at least according to the dust jacket), he, Oxford-trained and
-tested, warns against a "belief-centered" approach to the faith-even as
he confesses his own cardinal beliefs: that "the pre-Easter Jesus was not
God"; that Christ did not perform certain miracles in the Gospels because
accounts of them "violate our sense of the limits of the spectacular"; that
"the Bible and the Gospels (like the sacred scriptures of other religions)
are human responses to the sacred," recording "not what God says, but
what our spiritual ancestors said."

There's not much that's original here, as Stephen Prothero makes clear in
American Jesus: How the Son of God Became a National Icon (Farrar,
Straus, and Giroux). In fact, many of Borg's central tenets comport nicely
with the conclusions of the man Prothero deems the father of the
American Jesus: Thomas Jefferson. On lonely evenings in the White
House, he clipped away (literally) any hint of the supernatural from
copies of the Gospels, while reverentially seeking to preserve the true
identity and significance of Jesus (he called him, among other things, "the
most perfect model of republicanism in the universe"). Jefferson's
genealogical connection to today's Jesus Seminar, where skeptical
scholars meet to cast votes on the historical authenticity of the Gospels,
couldn't be clearer. "Its method is democratic, its goal is freedom, and its
obsession is Jesus," Prothero notes.

If Jesus and freedom have a profound, if complex, relationship, Jesus and
democracy are considerably more problematic. In the hands of
democrats, Jesus has taken on form after ever-expanding form.
Prothero's quip is cute but discerning: The American Jesus was "born in
Jefferson's White House and raised by evangelical and liberal
Protestants," but then "turned his back on his Christian upbringing and
struck out on his own in multi-religious America."

Predictably, as scholarship rooted in traditional Christian affirmations has
deepened, hundreds of books have appeared to combat the wayward
turn of a people that increasingly identify themselves as "spiritual" but not
"religious." The rigor of those mounting arguments is impressive, and the
authors pull no rhetorical punches. In Fabricating Jesus (InterVarsity
Press), Craig A. Evans, New Testament professor at Acadia Divinity
College, places his scholarly bona fides against those of the Jesus
Seminar and calls their errors "egregious and legion." In What Have They
Done with Jesus? (HarperSanFrancisco), the prolific Ben Witherington
III, professor of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary,
continues to engage in the Jesus wars. He argues that, contra much
recent scholarship, none of the textual variants of New Testament
writings provide "hard evidence" that "the virginal conception, crucifixion,
bodily resurrection of Jesus, or even the Trinity" were developed much
later by those trying to establish what became known as orthodoxy.

Beware the "scholarly consensus" so treasured by critics, these scholars
warn: That consensus is founded on what Witherington dubs the
"'justification by doubt' factor" and conditioned by today's
skeptical-indeed, cynical-climate.

In a formidable piece of scholarship, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses
(Eerdmans), University of Saint Andrews historian Richard Bauckham
says essentially the same thing. He meticulously rips away what he
regards as specious modern conceptions of the ancient world. The
eyewitnesses to the life of Christ-the living voices-"remained
accessible sources and authoritative guarantors of their own testimony
throughout the period between Jesus and the writing of the Gospels," he
contends. He wants to dispel the still-dominant impression that there
existed a "long period of creative development of the traditions before
they attained written form in the Gospels." This view, he declares, is no
longer defensible, and he provides a plausible account of real people
living in actual communities who devoted themselves to preserving a
record of truly remarkable events.

Faith and Doubt

"It is hard to see," says Bauckham, "how Christian faith and theology can
work with a radically distrusting attitude to the Gospels." Risking
opprobrium in the land of "scholarly consensus," Bauckham,
Witherington, and Evans badly want this faith and theology to work.
They want to permit its living voice to speak into an age cluttered with
voices. Our minds addled and our hearts tethered, we listen desperately
for the voice that whispers our name, that tells us who we are and what
we are for, that frees us from a way of life that teaches little about life.

Not surprisingly, it is a pastoral burden that drives many Jesus writers,
the desire not to clear away scholarly debris so much as to recover Jesus
as a touchstone-the one, the only one, capable of correcting our error
and folly, of restoring our lost identity. If our understanding of Jesus is our
most important measure, then much hangs on the quality of that
understanding. CT managing editor Mark Galli, in Jesus Mean and Wild
(Baker), reacts against contemporary conceptions of a "kind, benevolent
being who knows nothing of discipline, character, or tough love." Could
this image possibly square with the Gospel accounts of Christ? On pages
alleged to abound with sweetness and light, Galli finds "a tornado
touching down, lifting homes and businesses off their foundations, leaving
only bits and pieces of the former life strewn on his path." So much for
Jesus meek and mild. So much for our cheery, pluralistic faith.

For his part, pastor-scholar John Piper unveils a Christ whose authority
forces us to stand and salute-or weep and kneel down. "Jesus is not a
tribal deity," he reminds us in What Jesus Demands from the World
(Crossway). "All authority in the universe is his; all creation owes its
allegiance to him." This is a Jesus who doesn't roam the pages of the
Gospels-he haunts them, with an authority that hits people like an arctic
blast, freezing them to a standstill, snapping their heads around. The
parade of folk in Matthew 8, for example-the leprous, the infirm, the ill,
a Roman officer, would-be disciples, demons, even the elements-treat
him, remarkably, as if he is, indeed, the one in whom all things consist.
No wonder that chapter closes with a "whole town" assembling to "plead
with him to leave their region."

If Piper and Galli are right, it's this voice, with an authority strangely
divine and strangely human, that we outrageously free postmoderns must
finally confront, whether we wish to or not. We, mere creatures who
consist only in Christ, have no choice in this matter-no "freedom" to
ignore Christ, whatever our national constitutions or political philosophies
may proclaim.

The contrast of this Christ to the Jesus of our times, the Jesus of Marcus
Borg, could not be more stark. By Borg's lights, if Christ is God "it
makes no sense to speak of imitating him and becoming like him," for it is
a human guide that we need, one whom we stand a chance of emulating.
But surely Borg has misread our deepest need. Lost in the darkness of
our corruption, straining toward a light we seem to glimpse only in
dreams, we cry, in blessed moments of repentance, for one strong
enough to restore us to our truest creaturely shape-the shape of real
freedom. Only this Christ, this divine and human Christ, can elevate the
bar high enough to show us just how short we fall. Only this Christ has
the strength to correct us, through the sensitized love of his own
profoundly human prayers. We're talking about one whose spiritual
portfolio contains far more than "an enlightened experience of the
sacred"-Borg's description of Jesus' attainment.

Piper's concerns about the effects of Borg's Jesus on the world are worth
hearing. Having completed a doctorate in New Testament studies at the
University of Munich in the 1970s, Piper wonders about Borg's world.
He poignantly asks, "Who of us today can give any serious account" of
the "cutting-edge reconstructions" of Jesus that were then au courant? "I
estimate most of the fruit of those quests," he concludes, "to be unreliable
and unusable to accomplish what Jesus aims to accomplish in this world."

It's a world that has suffered immeasurably in its rejection of him and his
plan, as our lives too quickly make plain. It's a world he still longs to
embrace with healing, unifying, truth-telling love. And it's this vision for
the world that animates CT senior writer Tim Stafford's splendid
Surprised by Jesus (InterVarsity Press)-the pristine prose and striking
argument of which could make it a candidate to revolutionize any number
of small-group studies in churches around the nation, and, indeed, the
world. Stafford pounds home the basic point that Jesus' message did not
consist of "lofty truths about the nature of reality" or ruminations reflecting
"the eternal present of religious consciousness." His was, instead, a call to
align ourselves to "God's action in time and space." In an age bogged
down, distracted, and forlorn, Stafford presents a simple and radical
banner for the church to wave and enact: "Jesus is changing the world.
Come and see."

Most fundamentally, he writes, "Jesus came to announce and to create a
renewed people under God." This long-awaited renewal-our
renewal-comes only in particular, concrete, historical ways, ever
reflecting, by his grace, the deep and true humanity of the Son of God, he
who came eating and drinking, arguing and listening, blessing and dying.
For all of his authority, "What distinguished Jesus," Stafford wryly notes,
"was not his cosmopolitan outlook." He was a man of the people. He
was a man for the people. He is the living voice, who to the weary and
heavy-laden says gently, "Come."

Eric Miller is associate professor of history at Geneva College.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Related Elsewhere:

Jesus in America, Jesus: Uncovering the Life, Teachings, and Relevance
of a Religious Revolutionary, Fabricating Jesus, What Have They Done
with Jesus?, American Jesus: How the Son of God Became a National
Icon, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony,
and Jesus Mean and Wild: The Unexpected Love of an Untamable God
are available from ChristianBook.com, Amazon.com, and other retailers.

Jesus and the Eyewitnesses and Jesus Mean and Wild were honored in
Christianity Today's 2007 book awards.

Articles about the books mentioned above include:

They Really Saw Him | Richard Bauckham argues that the Gospels are
based on eyewitness testimony, not "anonymous community traditions."
The key, he says, is in the names. (June 7, 2007)
The Early Church on Jesus | Ben Witherington offers a potpourri of
thoughts about early Christian belief. (February 14, 2007)
A Practical Understanding of Jesus' Life | Tim Stafford interprets Jesus'
life for a new generation in Surprised by Jesus. (November 10, 2006)
Excerpt: Jesus Mean and Wild: The Unexpected Love of an Untamable
God | Apparently 'satanic' can be a synonym for 'relevant'. (July 1, 2006)
Crash-Helmet Christianity | Talking about the real Jesus is a dangerous
thing. A Christianity Today editorial (April 1, 2004)
Behold the Man | A review of Stephen Prothero's American Jesus.
(January 1, 2004)
Christian History & Biography's issues on the Jesus include The Life &
Times of Jesus of Nazareth and The Search For Biblical Jesus.

Other articles and reviews of books about the historical Jesus include:

Jesus Out of Focus | The Da Vinci Code is raising issues that go to the
heart of the Christian faith-and it's starting to confuse us all. (June 1,
2006)
Breaking The Da Vinci Code | So the divine Jesus and infallible Word
emerged out of a fourth-century power-play? Get real. (Nov. 07, 2003)
Thanks, Da Vinci Code | Tbe book sends us back to Christianity's
"founding fathers"-and the Bible we share with them (Nov. 14, 2003)
Jesus' Sword | Longing for peace in tumultuous times. (May 07, 2003)
Leading with Conclusions | Much of Jesus scholarship is about neither the
historical Jesus nor good scholarship. (April 29, 2002)
The Jesus Scandal | The church has a long history of discomfort with
Christ. (Feb. 19, 2002)
Historical Hogwash | Two books-one new, one newly
reissued-debunk false claims about the "real" Jesus. (July 13, 2001)
Lights, Camera, Jesus | Hollywood looks at itself in the mirror of the
Messiah. (May 12, 2000)
Desperately Seeking Jesus | A review of "The Epic Miniseries" (May 12,
2000)
No More Hollow Jesus | In focusing so intently on Jesus the man, Peter
Jennings' report missed the big picture. (July 3, 2000)
Jennings on Jesus | ABC anchorman Peter Jennings discusses what
moved him as he filmed a special on the life of Christ. (June 26, 2000)
 
In alt.flame Father Haskell <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 11:24 pm, Richard Catto <rrca...@gmail.com> wrote:


[..]

> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.


I hate racists.

plonk

--
Save Internet Radio
http://capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631541
--
alt.flame Special Forces
"When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning.
When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine."
-- Pablo Picasso
 
In alt.flame Irv Hyatt <irvhyatt@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1185940144.180145.144910@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...


[..]

>> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.


> I'm not sure what they eat but they just reek of putrid day old garlic and
> fish, especially when you get stuck in the elevator with them. Damn! Pass
> 'em a Breath Assure. How could they NOT know how bad they stink? HOW I ASK
> YOU? LOL


****KKhead.

plonk

--
Save Internet Radio
http://capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631541
--
alt.flame Special Forces
"When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning.
When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine."
-- Pablo Picasso
 
"Avoid normal situations." <byend.removethisbityousillyperson@eskimo.com>
wrote in message news:5hkvmhF3kkoeaU2@mid.individual.net...
> In alt.flame Irv Hyatt <irvhyatt@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1185940144.180145.144910@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>
> [..]
>
>>> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.

>
>> I'm not sure what they eat but they just reek of putrid day old garlic
>> and
>> fish, especially when you get stuck in the elevator with them. Damn!
>> Pass
>> 'em a Breath Assure. How could they NOT know how bad they stink? HOW I
>> ASK
>> YOU? LOL

>
> ****KKhead.
>
> plonk


Guess you haven't lived in close quarters with them on a daily basis.

>
> --
> Save Internet Radio
> http://capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631541
> --
> alt.flame Special Forces
> "When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and
> Meaning.
> When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap
> turpentine."
> -- Pablo Picasso
 
"Avoid normal situations." <byend.removethisbityousillyperson@eskimo.com>
wrote in message news:5hkvivF3kkoeaU1@mid.individual.net...
> In alt.flame Father Haskell <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 31, 11:24 pm, Richard Catto <rrca...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> [..]
>
>> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.

>
> I hate racists.
>
> plonk


I hate people who avoid the obvious because they might sound racist.

>
> --
> Save Internet Radio
> http://capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631541
> --
> alt.flame Special Forces
> "When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and
> Meaning.
> When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap
> turpentine."
> -- Pablo Picasso
 
Avoid normal situations. held us spellbound with...

> In alt.flame Irv Hyatt <irvhyatt@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1185940144.180145.144910@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>
> [..]
>
> >> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.

>
> > I'm not sure what they eat but they just reek of putrid day old garlic and
> > fish, especially when you get stuck in the elevator with them. Damn! Pass
> > 'em a Breath Assure. How could they NOT know how bad they stink? HOW I ASK
> > YOU? LOL

>
> ****KKhead.
>
> plonk


What a complete and ignorant narf! He jumps into a flame group thread,
gets all PC about the content, and begins plonking. Idiot.

--
St. Jackanapes
http://www.jackanapes.ws
============================
 
On Aug 5, 4:26 am, St. Jackanapes <larry_jackow...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Avoid normal situations. held us spellbound with...
>
>
>
> > In alt.flame Irv Hyatt <irvhy...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > > "Father Haskell" <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:1185940144.180145.144910@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>
> > [..]

>
> > >> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.

>
> > > I'm not sure what they eat but they just reek of putrid day old garlic and
> > > fish, especially when you get stuck in the elevator with them. Damn! Pass
> > > 'em a Breath Assure. How could they NOT know how bad they stink? HOW I ASK
> > > YOU? LOL

>
> > ****KKhead.

>
> > plonk

>
> What a complete and ignorant narf! He jumps into a flame group thread,
> gets all PC about the content, and begins plonking. Idiot.


Hell, if I had anything against the Koreans, I'd never have spent
a sum total of $500 at the local massage parlor.
 
On Aug 5, 2:56 am, "Irv Hyatt" <irvhy...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> "Avoid normal situations." <byend.removethisbityousillyper...@eskimo.com>
> wrote in messagenews:5hkvivF3kkoeaU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > In alt.flame Father Haskell <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 31, 11:24 pm, Richard Catto <rrca...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > [..]

>
> >> The prospect that you might be part Korean should scare YOU.

>
> > I hate racists.

>
> > plonk

>
> I hate people who avoid the obvious because they might sound racist.


His hobbies probably include petitioning the local school board
to remove Mark Twain.
 
Father Haskell wrote:
> On Aug 5, 2:56 am, "Irv Hyatt" <irvhy...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > I hate people who avoid the obvious because they might sound racist.

> His hobbies probably include petitioning the local school board
> to remove Mark Twain.


Mark Twain hated Jewbies.
 
On Aug 5, 1:50 pm, Richard Catto <rrca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Father Haskell wrote:
> > On Aug 5, 2:56 am, "Irv Hyatt" <irvhy...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I hate people who avoid the obvious because they might sound racist.

> > His hobbies probably include petitioning the local school board
> > to remove Mark Twain.

>
> Mark Twain hated Jewbies.


His real name was Sam Clemens. Sounds half jewish to me.
 
Father Haskell died this morning at 6:25 after a lengthy bout of alt.flame. The
will states:

>Hell, if I had anything against the Koreans, I'd never have spent
>a sum total of $500 at the local massage parlor.


....he said, admitting that the only way he could possibly get within a hundred
yards of a vagina is through financial compensation.


--
The 2-Belo [the2beloATmsdDOTbiglobeDOTneDOTjp]
All-Seeing All-Knowing Glorious Emperor for Life, Meow [Ret.]
The alt.fan.karl-malden.nose Webcenter Museum:
http://www.godhatesjanks.org/webcenter/
auk: Hammer of Thor by Special Decree 1999
aavf3: mhm21x20
Top Usenet Asshole #16
Lits Slut #4

"I ask for 'fal tor pan'! The restore from backup!"
 
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