Holocaust Denial, American Style 29 Nov 2007

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:ucobl3909g16c9q678mnoqs9rdh0jrtkj8@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:50:55 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>
>>WE know about the Feith Memo being a mockup. but
>
> BULLSHIT!!!
>
> http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200410\NAT20041011a.html
>
> When CNSNews.com published an article Monday, Oct. 4, entitled,
> "Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties," we
> decided against publishing all 42 pages of the Iraqi intelligence
> documents in our possession and on which the article was based.
>
[snip]

I gave you a source from the OFFICIAL classified report to congress.
http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
They examined MILLIONS of pages! It s stranget that your 42 pages are not
there because they only report ONE meeting with Al Khyda operatives and they
say NO EVIDENCE OF LINKS between al Quaeda and Iraq.

Thats MILLIONS of pages examined by the CIA not by a media spindoctor:

http://www.slate.com/id/2092180
What is disputed is that the meetings went anywhere. It would not be
surprising to find out that the two sides had a de facto cease-fire, as has
been alleged. But we're still waiting to see real cooperation in the form of
transfers of weapons and other materiel, know-how, or funds; the provision
of safe haven on a significant scale; or the use of Iraqi diplomatic
facilities by al-Qaida terrorists. The Feith memo mentions a few instances
of possible Iraqi assistance to al-Qaida on bomb-building and weapons supply
to affiliated groups, but nothing like the kind of evidence that, in Hayes'
words, "is detailed, conclusive, and corroborated by multiple sources."
[end excerpt]

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:al8cl3drm5g33kt7cn1b53o0eqi3o96va6@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:30:20 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>
>>"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
>>news:siobl358uv70vuvpmn7t5ps4a02s0skt5n@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:59:24 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>>>
>>>>Anyway at best a single meeting a decade ago whiuch IS NOt evidence of
>>>>planning world terror
>>>
>>> LIAR!
>>>
[snip - news spin]


>>[snip - news spin article]
>>
>>Read the actual report by the CIA.

unsnipped official doc - http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf

>
> Read what they found AFTER the invasion - fool.

What an idiotic comment!
The CIA report IS based on everything they know AFTER the invasion! And it
also includes everything they knew BEFORE the invasion. Including the stuff
that was not stovepiped to the top by the OSP!

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:cm8cl3d0v4br5dc3rt7ccdook7jk924amf@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:30:20 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>
>>"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:4755ebb8$0$8677$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> "Ivanhoe Martin" <cliff@rasta.man> wrote in message
>>> news:qjp9l31qucv9tl2fi75ahbrttm4017u8ns@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:34:01 -0500, "abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com>
>>>> mumbled:
>>>>
>>>>> Al Qaeda didn't like Saddam
>>>>
>>>> Oh?
>>>
>>> Yeah, Saddam and Osama had no use for eachother.
>>
>>Why would a religious zealot bent on introducing Islamic Law into Arabia
>>like a whisky drinking dictator who wanted to rule a country himslef
>>rather
>>than allow Islamists run the place?
>>
> The enemy of my enemy...etc...

That logic might apply to Georges Bush Jr and Snr. and Regan. Maybe even to
Clinton. But not to Saddam. He didnt work with ~Islamists. In fact unlike
the US he probably thought that if you incubate and finance Islamists in
another country they will one day turn on you!

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:do8cl39mfgt7din0t49gh2dgmavggcson7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:42:05 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>
>>"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
>>news:vombl3t4edn70vn8t0rdtogpsppm4b7dva@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:02:10 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>>>
>>>
>>> rubbish....
>>>
>>[snip claims without any supporting evidence]
>>
>>Here is the OFFICIAL report

[unsnipped]
http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf

>
> That is the official whitewash.


That is you rebuttal is it? Several of the largest intelligence services in
the world examine tens of million of pages of documents. the look at photos
and videos and talk to people on the ground (on all sides) and present their
opinion on all this evidence. and YOU for your part have WHAT evidence?
Nothing ! Only you OPINION and the cut and paste UNSUPPORTED OPINION of
biased media sources!

How is it a whitewash? It gives the whole story, warts and all. In fact even
the
stovepiped UNSUPPORTED CLAIMS directly before the invasion about WMD in Iraq
and links
to Al Qaeda are included. ANY known evidence is raised supplied and
analysed. Dissenting opinion (without evidence to support it) is recorded.
A number of Senators from all sides of the house were involved. you can see
the amendments they put and what they agreed to. And the supported opinion
(not and unsupported stove-pipe OSP ) of the CIA FBI Homeland Sec. DIA etc.
are all included. It even included theories that are unsupported but can't
be proved wrong.

Please care to show how it is a whitewash? Next you will be saying the Moon
Landings were a hoax and the pictures are all fake! LOL!

 

[Einstein]

wow so many LIES in that OP!

10k is what an average American thinks? Hell no.

70k is Media reports? Try 500k

1 Million actual? FALSE, you lose, your a liar.

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:bp8cl31jcc7spchuk6104nnf98dfd6gvek@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:42:05 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
[snip]

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Weakly Standard is
>>>
>>> NO FACTUAL REBUTTAL!
>>
>>Here is factual rebuttal:
>>
>>In 2003 Jan 26 on page 11 of a Report entitled "CIA: Iraqi support for
>>Terrorism" (which you can find referred to - ref 160- on page 64 of the
>>following reference) "Saddam Hussain and Uasama Bin Liden are far from
>>being natural partners"
>>
>>
>> I use an official report to the US congress
>
> Politician spin, hardly the final say.
http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
It ISN'T politicians! It is the CIA FBI Homeland security NSA DIA ALL
reporting to congress!

It is called OVERSIGHT, something the current administration seemed to
ignore and are still trying to ignore!

Now since you claim it please care to show how it is as you claim
"politician spin"?

Betya you cant! all you will have is your OPINION versus the FACT of
Intelligence agencies SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE!

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:rk8cl31k538gj2qmiea8f4op7g4b9fpslf@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:30:20 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>
>>"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
>>news:ifobl3du82egk9gku9109f4qto6n19l56p@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:50:55 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>>>
>>> Dublin, Ireland
>>>
>>> 89.100.47.254 = [ 089-100-047254.ntlworld.ie ]
>>> inetnum: 89.100.0.0 - 89.101.127.255
>>[snip]
>>[snip]
>>> descr: NTL Ireland
>>
>>NTL Ireland does not exist anymore!
>
> Oh?

You didn't check did you? LOL! Ill bet you are feverishly looking now to try
to prove me wrong.

It is a subsidiary issue anyway. The old servers still physically exist. But
my main point is what is the relevance of posting the source of a post?
When you are LOSING the debate do you always try to evade the issue and
attack the person making the argument?
"Don't like the message so shoot the messenger" eh?

US security sources (I showed you ONE but there are loads and loads of
them - unlike unproven claims of loads of WMD and Al Qaeda training camps)
now say NO WMD in Iraq and no links to Al Qaeda. But you still seem to think
there ARE WMD and there were links to Al Khyda and training camps in Iraq
and WMD ready to launch DIRECTLY BEFORE invasion or even now.

So where is your evidence to support YOUR CLAIM that WMD and Al Khyda
training camps were in Iraq prior to invasion? Not media spin but ACTUAL
EVIDENCE. The "Salman Pak was training Al Qaeda terrorists" claim is a
JOKE!

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
news:bp8cl31jcc7spchuk6104nnf98dfd6gvek@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:42:05 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>
>>"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
>>news:ugtbl3pdg04j6nlssgriovr0hfmodsgra1@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:07:03 -0500, "abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com>
>>> mumbled:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Sir Sam" <nite@cru.sade> wrote in message
>>>>news:8bval3hpr9qr296ibobtt8ih7duhnr2af5@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:52:36 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>>>>>
>>>>>>al quad were NOT in any way prevalent in Iraq under
>>>>>>Saddam
>>>>>
>>>>> LIAR!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/033jgqyi.asp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Weakly Standard is
>>>
>>> NO FACTUAL REBUTTAL!
>>
>>Here is factual rebuttal:
>>
>>In 2003 Jan 26 on page 11 of a Report entitled "CIA: Iraqi support for
>>Terrorism" (which you can find referred to - ref 160- on page 64 of the
>>following reference) "Saddam Hussain and Uasama Bin Liden are far from
>>being natural partners"
>>
>>
>> I use an official report to the US congress
>
> Politician spin, hardly the final say.

YOU are the one who supplied OPINION and media spin! How is an official
report which details all the evidence from the CIA FBI DIA NSA etc. a
"spin"? It is an all party committee coming from all sides of the political
spectrum and getting information of official sources and not opinion
sources.

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:17:49 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>I gave you a source from the OFFICIAL classified report to congress.

Whop a dee ****.

Think "Congress" ever solved JFK's assassination?

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:40:03 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>The CIA report IS based on everything they know AFTER the invasion!

Ah...so hindsight allows revision, great....

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:40:03 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>ANY known evidence is raised supplied and
>analysed.

Like say:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2712903.stm

A court in the German city of Mannheim has convicted two businessmen
of supplying weapons-making equipment to Iraq in violation of UN
sanctions.
Engineer Bernd Schompeter was sentenced to five years and three months
for dealing in drills that can be used for boring tubes for long-range
cannons, capable of launching nuclear, chemical or biological
warheads.

A second defendant, Willi Heinz Ribbeck, was given a two-year
suspended sentence for failing to alert his superiors to the sale of
the drills to Mr Schompeter by his Burgsmueller machine company.

Both defendants, who are in their 50s, have confessed to the main
charge of supplying the equipment.

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:40:03 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>> The enemy of my enemy...etc...
>
>That logic might apply to Georges Bush Jr and Snr. and Regan. Maybe even to
>Clinton. But not to Saddam

Oh do tell....

He had no axe to grind with the US????


http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200410\NAT20041011a.html
CNSNews.com) - When CNSNews.com published an article Monday, Oct. 4,
entitled, "Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror
Ties," we decided against publishing all 42 pages of the Iraqi
intelligence documents in our possession and on which the article was
based.

We published only the first page, fearing that if more were made
widely available on the Internet, they might end up being altered or
otherwise manipulated. We offered credentialed news organizations and
counter-terrorism experts the opportunity to view and receive copies
of the documents so that they might check for themselves on the
authenticity of the documents and judge their importance in the debate
over whether Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction
and/or had ties to international terrorist organizations.

Several news organizations did just that. But in light of other
assertions on Wednesday, widely reported by the mainstream media, that
Saddam did not pose any significant threat prior to the U.S. invasion
of Iraq, we felt it was time to publish as many of the Iraqi
intelligence documents as possible.

What follows are copies of 30 of the 42 pages that are in our
possession. Pages 29 through 40 were excluded because they replicate,
though in a different person's handwriting, earlier documents.

Upon clicking on the individual pages of Arabic documents, readers
will have an opportunity to click on the unedited English translation
of those documents. We hope this serves to further illuminate a very
important element of the ongoing debate.

Page 1: Jan. 18, 1993 memo from Saddam Hussein, through his secretary,
to the Iraqi Intelligence Service, urging that missions be undertaken
to "hunt down Americans," especially in Somalia.

Pages 2-12: Jan. 25, 1993 memo from the Iraqi Intelligence Service to
Saddam Hussein, outlining the existing or developing relationships
between Iraq and terrorist organizations.
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4
Page 5
Page 6
Page 7
Page 8
Page 9
Page 10
Page 11
Page 12

Page 13: Feb. 8, 1993 response from Saddam Hussein to the Jan. 25,
1993 memo.

Pages 14, 15: March 11, 1993 memo from the Iraqi Intelligence Service
detailing plans for a meeting with "one of the leaders from the
Egyptian Al-Jehad" terrorist organization.
Page 14
Page 15

Page 16: March 16, 1993 response from Saddam's secretary to the March
11, 1993 memo.

Pages 17, 18: March 18, 1993 memo from the Iraqi Intelligence Service
detailing plans to "move against the Egyptian regime" of Hosni
Mubarak.
Page 17
Page 18

Pages 19-20: Iraqi Intelligence Service internal memos regarding the
information of individuals who participated at "the martyr act camp"
belonging to the Iraqi intelligence directorate.
Page 19
Page 20

Pages 21-26: They comprise a list of terrorists trained at a camp
belonging to the Iraqi Intelligence Directorate.
Page 21
Page 22
Page 23
Page 24
Page 25
Page 26

Pages 27, 28: Notes from the Iraqi Intelligence Service outlining
strategies. Included is the assessment that terrorist "efforts should
be concentrated on Egypt." The notes also advise against targeting the
U.S. military, but recommend targeting "Americans as general" as well
as "US agents inside the (Egyptian) regime."
Page 27
Page 28

Page 29-40: Duplicative of pages 2-12, except in a different person's
handwriting.

Page 41: Table indicating Sept. 6, 2000 acquisition of malignant
pustule (anthrax) as well as sterilization/decontamination equipment.

Page 42: Table indicating Aug. 21, 2000 acquisition of mustard gas as
well as protective equipment.


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={EACB624F-680F-4296-9D12-49C458BF38C1}

When a military man

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:44:17 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>It ISN'T politicians! It is the CIA FBI Homeland security NSA DIA ALL
>reporting to congress!

Who are Congress?

Who hires, fires, and appoints to Govt. agencies?

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:03:14 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>what is the relevance of posting the source of a post?

What does some offshore Mick have to do with any expertiseon US
affairs of state?

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:03:14 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>The "Salman Pak was training Al Qaeda terrorists" claim is a
>JOKE!

So that fuselage must be a "joke" too, eh?

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:44:17 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
>It ISN'T politicians! It is the CIA FBI Homeland security NSA DIA ALL
>reporting to congress!

Did you bother to note how much was BLACKED out????

My gawd, you're a fool of the forst order!

 

[Don Homuth]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:07:10 GMT, Sir Sam <nite@cru.sade> wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:30:20 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
><Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>

>>Read the actual report by the CIA.
>
>Read what they found AFTER the invasion - fool.

No WMDs.

No Terrist training camps.

No nuclear weapons program.

No facilities to make or store CWs or BWs.

No indication of an operational connection between ObL and Iraq at any
level.

Nothing.

 

[jim bronson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:28:51 -0800, Don Homuth
<dhomuthoneatcomcast.net@> mumbled:

>On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:07:10 GMT, Sir Sam <nite@cru.sade> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:30:20 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
>><Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>>
>
>>>Read the actual report by the CIA.
>>
>>Read what they found AFTER the invasion - fool.

>No WMDs.

LIAR!

http://butlerblog.com/2005/08/30/how-many-nuclear-weapons-can-you-make-from-500-tons-of-yellow-cake/

The Tuwaitha site was heavily bombed during the

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"jim bronson" <then@came.nbc> wrote in message
news:fuidl3hlmucbjgbj8ddhtegjrut0laq56o@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:17:49 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>I gave you a source from the OFFICIAL classified report to congress.
>
> Whop a dee ****.
>
> Think "Congress" ever solved JFK's assassination?

You are changing the context.

Lee Harvey Oswald was not in the fourth largest Army in the World. Oswald
did not have thousands of UN inspectors spend over a decade going all over
his house BEFORE the assassination of JFK or after it! You MIGHT have a case
in the case of 9/11 and whether Osama was involved in it. But you certainly
DON'T have a case in the case of Iraq having WMD or links to Al Qaeda
training camps.

It seems like when you don't like the message you try to shoot the
messenger. WHAT do you find id WRONG about the report from the CIA , FBI,
NSA etc.? What BETTER sources do you have which show counter evidence and
which show Al Qaeda training camps or WMD in Iraq? I'll bet you don't have
ANY! And don't forget this comes with a backdrop of the US Administration
claiming loads and loads of WMD ready to launch at the West in minutes! They
even stated they KNEW WHERE the WMD were!

 

[Mavisbeacon]

"jim bronson" <then@came.nbc> wrote in message
newscjdl3h0t9gsjogt9c3r2nrkad2ap4as36@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:03:14 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"
> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:
>
>>The "Salman Pak was training Al Qaeda terrorists" claim is a
>>JOKE!
>
> So that fuselage must be a "joke" too, eh?


I don't deny there was a facility at Salman Pak.
If you want to train terrorists you train them to hijack planes and NOT how
to get into grounded planes! for that you only need the INSIDE of a plane.
You use planes on the ground to train COUNTER TERRORISTS!

The Salman Pak claims had been soundly debunked. I only gave you the CIA FBI
NSA and other securoty sources view on it. Indeed since the invasion a fby
now famous bloger was called "Salman PAX" which was a joke on the debunked
so called "Al Qaeda training camp". Al Qaeda were not welcome by Saddam in
Iraq let alone trained by his people!